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Post by kpaz on Feb 1, 2012 0:36:26 GMT -5
Someone is making pea sized, dark green poops. it's worrying me they're going through the soup at lightening speed, I might have to make more Thursday (even though I made more just this morning). Not much luck with the litter boxes.
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Post by katt on Feb 1, 2012 5:47:11 GMT -5
The soup I made today is thicker, I guess like a puree . It's somewhere between guacamole and cake batter.I added water the first time though, so the consistency would be familiar in case the taste was different. I had to add kibble for Goomba to put his nose near it, but the other two took to it well.Good! This is a good thickness. It sounds like they were eating it below, but have you tried it without extra water added yet to see if they will eat the puree thickness soup? If not, start decreasing the amount of water. Also, start decreasing the number of kibble bits you add in for Goomba to smell. Silly little thing. It cracks me up. I once knew of a cat who was on all raw for years, but for his entire life the cat had to have ONE piece of kibble in the dish or he simply would not eat. I think it was the cat of someone on the forum actually. Anyways, Goomba reminds me of that cat. Let's hope he doesn't need the kibble piece forever though. I switched from the ceramic food bowl in that video to a longer, oval-shaped pyrex dish. The three of them could barely fir in the old one and Pippin and Goomba both move their heads around the bowl a lot, which just made it harder for them to eat. Good! I'm sure that's much nicer for them. I moved the food bowl into the cage since Goomba puts his paws in the new bowl and tracks it across the carpet. I'll set the feeding den back up and see if it helps with the stashing. It should. I would consider feeding them in the feeding den too. And try sitting in the room while they eat and keep an eye out for stashing. If anyone tried to run off with some meat, pick them up and put them in the feeding den. Do this until they "get it." (I don't know about you, but I always let the boys out while I sit on my bed to study and whatnot, maybe you could sit in the room and do schoolwork while they run around?) Feeding in the den could help. You could try to put it on it's side with the lid off and the food dish along the back like a trough... Here are some threads on feeding dens. I can't find the one I was looking for. www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=food&action=display&thread=4687www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=enrichment&action=display&thread=74www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=cage&thread=5517As for poops, I'll have to check out the boot camp thing. The problem is just that I'm never home when it happens.That makes it tougher. Perhaps they need to be kept in the cage when you are not home for a bit, then slowly allowed time out in the room again. A lot of it could just be general protest about the change in schedule and the change in food. If that's the case it should blow over. Here's the thread on potty boot camp. I wanted to give it to you last night but I could barely focus on the screen to type. :S My head was full of dynamite. www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=training&action=display&thread=108Judging from your thread, I'd have to agree with Sherry about the extra urine. I didn't realize you were using newspapers. I'd suggest using a litter such as Swheat Scoop or World's best. Even if you just fill the box with a shallow layer (since the edges are not high) it will absorb moisture (and odor) much better. It's GREAT at Odor control, the only 2 SAFE scoopable litters for ferrets, and the clumps can be flushed (no stinking up your trash can or wasting plastic baggies). www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=playtime&action=display&thread=5503I hope you're feeling better It sucks to be sickThanks. I think I may be fighting a cold, Shane has one. But the problem the last few days has been a killer headache. I drank a ton of coffee today and that seemed to help today. Hopefully by tomorrow it's gone. I feel better today so fingers crossed... Someone is making pea sized, dark green poops. it's worrying me they're going through the soup at lightening speed, I might have to make more Thursday (even though I made more just this morning). Not much luck with the litter boxes. Hmmm...interesting. Keep an eye on them. As long as they aren't showing other symptoms I wouldn't worry too much yet, but let me know if it continues or if any of them seem otherwise off. It is both normal and good for them to be eating so much right now. Their bodies are going "OMG! NUTRIENTS!!!!" and trying to catch up and stock up after eating kibble. This DOES slow down after a while, and they will eventually eat less in volume than they did of kibble. Let's get them all eating the puree and see if we can try to remove the kibble and still get Goomba to eat. Perhaps try a small dish with a little soup heated up (use hot water to make the soup or thaw a cube in a bag or container in warm water until it's thawed and slightly warm. That can make the smell more enticing. I'd be curious to see if that will repel him more or make him go MMMMM! The next step once they will eat the puree-thickness soup is to have tiny slivers of chicken in the soup. We then gradually increase the size and quantity of the slivers until they will eat chunks. At that point we can start adding in other meats, then organs and hearts, then bones, then last whole prey if you decide to go that route. Anyways, it sounds like they are getting some slivers in the soup already, so as you start to thicken the soup feed free to mix some slivers in as well. Start small and build your way up.
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Post by katt on Feb 1, 2012 12:54:19 GMT -5
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Post by kpaz on Feb 1, 2012 14:55:22 GMT -5
That is strange. I'm starting to think it's not insulinoma, with the BG test, but I don't know. He hasn't been lethargic and sickly like he was last week, and he's definitely eating now, and has little and big poops, so it doesn't seem like a blockage. His back legs still tremble though, and he just doesn't walk the same and isn't as agile as he used to be. I read this obscure article the other day about a rare ferret disease that attacks the muscles...I'll have to see if I can find it. I don't know if that would be it at all, but it's something to at least get informed about. He's definitely blowing his coat now, I brushed him yesterday and it looked like I was picking apart a cotton ball by the end of it. Parts of his coat have little tiny new guard hairs coming in, and the fluff is thinning out slowly. As for food, I won't add water to the mix when I get home and see how they take to it. I'll try to decrease the kibble amount even more. I usually do warm up the thawed soup in a baggie, they seem to like it better. Goomba will go to it, put his nose so that it's just a fraction of a fraction of an inch away from the soup and sniff. Eventually he decides that it's not worth his time. To get him to eat the soup, I have to offer him a spoon with soup and 2-3 pieces of kibble in it. Again, he puts his nose really close, decides it smells ok, then starts to lick. Then I have to move the spoon to the bowl as he follows it trying to lick more, and slowly lower the spoon into the bowl while he's drinking. If he sees the spoon being taking away, he just looks at me and waits. So I have to be extra sneaky Once he's drinking from the bowl he's good to go. As for chunks, they'll eat them if the accidentally suck one up while slurping, but they usually drink around them and leave them at the bottom...except for the skin. They love the skin. Ellie will hiss if someone gets close to her with skin in her mouth ;D I sprayed the carpet by the litter boxes with this Out! brand stain and odor remover that I usually add a little to the bedding. It seemed to help a lot, or at least deter them to the tiles. Most of the poop was in the boxes, some on the tiles, and only one on the carpet, but it was on the edge near the tiles. I think I'm going to the store tonight, so I'll look for those litters. I think Pippin is the one making tiny poops, and one of his toys is missing a part (and it looks like it got ripped off), so now I'm freaking out. He's acting totally normal, I just need to watch him go potty and keep an eye on him. Which reminds me, their poo is getting really runny now that they aren't really eating any kibble. I read that pumpkin can help out, but is that safe since it has sugars? If I can use it should I mix it in with the soup (I have to make more tomorrow, again )? On a side note, I feel like the switch has helped me get a better bond with Pippin and Goomba. Ellie has always been a momma's girl, but the other two were not, at all. Since hand feeding, Goomba now lets me pick him up and doesn't squirm at all, he'll sleep in my arms, he lays down and just hangs out when I brush him (whereas he used to squirm and retreat to dark and hard-to-reach places if I did any of these things), and Pippin lets me hold him without trying to leap out of my arms, and is *better* about letting me pet him
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Post by kpaz on Feb 1, 2012 23:39:33 GMT -5
Purée is a success and I've gotten goomba to eat it with only 4 pieces of kibble. There is poop all over the place, and I seriously have no time to work with them on it right now. I feel awful about it but for now they are back in the cage unlessbim supervising. I am stretched so thin between school and feeding and homework and my internship. I didn't have time to go to the store and get litter because I had to make more soup. I'm going to hopefully get my homework done in the morning early enough to stop by the store on my way to school.
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Post by katt on Feb 2, 2012 4:12:15 GMT -5
Breathe! You're doing great! I know it is a LOT to manage all at once. Been there dome that have more of it in the future. Most ferrets are caged all day anyways, don't feel bad. Give them a week or two and see how they do in thencage and while out supervised, then build up unsupervised time. Perhaps whole you make dinner or take a shower. If they are bad, start all over again until they have earned the right to be loose back. Let's keep the soup stable for a few days and get rid of the kibble and see if we can (at the same time) wean Goomba off of the spoon. I think if we do that it will help make your time a bit easier to manage. Try cutting the kibble in half at the next meal. Also, see if rather than spoon feeding Goomba to start him eating, try bowl feeding. Hold the bowl for him instead of a spoon. As he starts to eat it work on slowly putting him down as he continues to eat. Sound like a plan? Lettuce (frozen and blended well - iceberg kind only) or pumpkin will help win their poops as well as adding a little more calcium powder to the soup. I really think it's not insulinoma with Goomba, but I'm not a vet. I will leave the pumpkin up to you.
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Post by katt on Feb 3, 2012 2:27:32 GMT -5
Any updates today?
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Post by kpaz on Feb 3, 2012 9:14:28 GMT -5
I'm going through 8oz a day now, and goomba still needs kibble to eat it or he just turns his headband squirms. 5 seems to be the magic number of kibble pieces: four in the "corners" an one in the middle. I switched litters last night so and bought puppy training mats just to save some of my sanity. Since its the weekend I should have more time to supervise and re-train. They haven't been destructive in the cage like I figured they would, but I left them unsupervised in the evening because I was really busy and knew I wouldn't be back until late. I came home to poop all over the carpet, and had the fortune of stepping in one I'm pretty sure it's pippin doing that. Anyway I was up until 1am cleaning the mess so I think there will be no more unsupervised play for now. I'm just worried they will get too bored and bite the bars or something that could hurt them
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Post by kpaz on Feb 3, 2012 23:33:45 GMT -5
I bought the Swheat Scoop litter and it seems to working well so far. At first, Pippin tried to dig it up and it went everywhere, but since using it he seems to be leaving it alone. There were four accidents today, I left the ferrets out because I had to go to a gallery reception for some art I entered into a competition and I was running late Still, it's better than the 10+ accidents from yesterday... My art didn't place, so no extra monies for the ferrets like I was hoping for. Also, someone is having mucousy, yellow, frothy poops. That can't be good... And Goomba's belly is really swollen today, although he's acting normally. And their poop stinks. Especially the yellow kind. It's pretty disgusting. Do you think the food is the food bad or something? I have a lot of homework to do this weekend, but hopefully I can steam clean the carpet, wash all the bedding, and rearrange things so it's not so cluttered in there. It really needs a thorough clean before I go crazy, but I might have to wait until Mardi Gras break before I have any time. They didn't eat as much today; they ate less than 8oz.
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Post by katt on Feb 4, 2012 3:16:49 GMT -5
I'm going through 8oz a day now, and goomba still needs kibble to eat it or he just turns his headband squirms. Good! To the increase in meat I mean. 5 seems to be the magic number of kibble pieces: four in the "corners" an one in the middle. Ugh! Goomba you are a stubborn little twerp! ;D Try cutting it down to four pieces. I came home to poop all over the carpet, and had the fortune of stepping in one They were protest pooping as punishment for locking them up. I'm pretty sure it's pippin doing that. Anyway I was up until 1am cleaning the mess so I think there will be no more unsupervised play for now. I'm just worried they will get too bored and bite the bars or something that could hurt them I wouldn't worry about that too much. What do you think other people's ferrets do who don't get to free roam? Ferrets sleep most of the day anyways. Just make sure they get good play time while they are out.
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Post by katt on Feb 4, 2012 3:27:36 GMT -5
I bought the Swheat Scoop litter and it seems to working well so far. At first, Pippin tried to dig it up and it went everywhere, but since using it he seems to be leaving it alone. That's what I use and I love it. It does track, but it works very very well. They do seem to enjoy digging when it's fresh, but after the initial dig they settle down. There were four accidents today, I left the ferrets out because I had to go to a gallery reception for some art I entered into a competition and I was running late . Still, it's better than the 10+ accidents from yesterday... My art didn't place, so no extra monies for the ferrets like I was hoping for. Aw I'm sorry! At least they didn't have a many accidents! Also, someone is having mucousy, yellow, frothy poops.Hmm...can you get a picture? And Goomba's belly is really swollen today, although he's acting normally. Grrrr, I wonder what the deal is. He's really an enigma that one. As long as he is acting normally I wouldn't worry too much but definitely keep an eye on him. Any chance you can separate them all and see who is pooping what? And their poop stinks. Especially the yellow kind. It's pretty disgusting. Do you think the food is the food bad or something? What is your source for the meat and does it have an expiration date? If they continue having problems we can try changing to pork in case someone has a food allergy, but if that was the case I'd think it would have come up already. How much calcium are you putting in each soup batch? Also, are you able to get some probiotics by chance? Feline or canine ones will work just fine. They won't hurt, and they might help. A picture of the poop would help. Also, how much did each of them eat today? For the next meal I want you to make it thicker (add less water) and mix in a few slivers of chicken. Have you tried pumpkin? I'd give each of them 1/2 tsp a day. Goomba too, just keep a cloe eye on him. What was his BG when you went in do you know/can you find out? As long as his BG was okay I wouldn't worry too much about giving him a little pumpkin... I have a lot of homework to do this weekend, but hopefully I can steam clean the carpet, wash all the bedding, and rearrange things so it's not so cluttered in there. It really needs a thorough clean before I go crazy, Ugh. I know the feeling. My room and all of the critter cages need a good cleaning. The whole house for that matter - I try to do a deep clean every 1-2 weeks, but I don't always get to it as soon as I'd like. Blarg! but I might have to wait until Mardi Gras break before I have any time. You have Mardi Gras break?!?! Wow! Really?! They didn't eat as much today; they ate less than 8oz. See above. lol The next meal start to mix in chunks. It's time to move to the next stage. I'm off all weekend so I should be able to text back pretty quickly if you have questions and I'm not online.
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Post by kpaz on Feb 4, 2012 11:07:54 GMT -5
Lol yes, we do have a Mardi Gras break! I live about 45 minutes away from New Orleans and no one would go to school the Wednesday after Mardi Gras so we just get Monday-Wednesday off to cure hangovers/finish off the king cakes and crawfish ;D This morning there were no hangovers! I think the litter is working well. They're eating chicken from Wal-mart and I buy the fresh kind and just freeze it, but they weren't expired when I bought them, and at least one of them is pooping normally. Goomba's BG was 122 at the vet. I'll try pumpkin again, but they definitely aren't a fan I'll cut some chicken into slivers and mix it in. Ellie and Pippin are likely to try it, but Goomba got a chunk and threw it on the floor...I'll have to work with him.
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Post by kpaz on Feb 5, 2012 0:25:42 GMT -5
This is what they're eating now: Goomba doesn't like the little chunks, but the others will eat them. Goomba is also hacking now. I'm not sure if it's allergies from all the rain we've had or if he has hair down his throat or something Also, they hate pumpkin. Ellie tried to eat it because I was really trying to coax her, Goomba tried to also but ended up just letting his mouth hang open until it fell out, and Pippin was not having it. I still haven't had a chance to go to the dollar store and buy new tubs. Also, I was having trouble taking pictures of the poop because my camera was being nit-picky with the lighting. I didn't get to separate them but I know whose poop is whose fo rthe most part. Goomba's poop... Ellie... Pippin (notice it's not in the litterbox I can't leave him unsupervised for two minutes...)
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Post by katt on Feb 5, 2012 2:49:37 GMT -5
Pippin's poop looks good. Are you okay if Pippin and Ellie's menu plan begins to diverge from Goomba? I think he's going to take longer to move forward but I feel they are definitely ready to move on. If it would be easier for you to keep them all at the same stage we can certainly do that, I just want you to know/think about the option of moving them on while we work on Goomba. Let me know, either way is fine. As for Goomba I have a few things up my sleeve... First the pumpkin (this is for all of them) mix a few teaspoons into their soup each day. Maybe 2 teaspoons for the 3 of them. See if they'll take it that way - it doesn't have to be plain. You can also try mixing it with ferretone. For the poops, the texture isn't great but not terrible. It's the color that concerns me. The poop combined with the hacking leads me to wonder about the possibility of a hairball. Try the pumpkin with some Tone (or soup) and see if you can get him to eat some daily. If not, tomorrow I'd try a little Vaseline, about a teaspoon. See if that gets things moving. Also something I want to try here soon is a different protein. It's possible he's just stubborn (some ferrets are just plain difficult lol) but it's also possible he doesn't like chicken. If the poop is not due to a hairball or GI upset of some sort, then it's possible that he is even sensitive to chicken. IF it is a food sensitivity, that is absolutely something we can deal with. I did elimination diets for almost a year before I got Koda's IBD under control. Learned a few useful tricks along the way. Koda's allergic to beef and was sensitive to chicken. Chicken allergies/sensitivities are not uncommon. That being said, it is possible he is or is Not sensitive to chicken, but it's an idea to keep in the back of your mind. I'd like to try him on pork. Can you get some plain pork chops and make a soup out of them? Start out mixing the pork soup into the chicken soup. Actually scratch that. Sorry - try feeding them some pork soup and see if they like it or not. If they are unsure, Then mix it into the chicken soup and gradually switch the 2 out (just like you did with the kibble and chicken). You can keep adding chicken chunks in if you want, it's good that the other 2 will eat the chunks. Give pork chunks a shot too. But I want to see how Goomba takes to pork. It will probably take a few days to get him used to the new flavor, but my hope is that once he starts to eat pork soup he'll like it more than the chicken and we can move on. If not, well no worries, it will take more time to switch him but we WILL switch him. Either way we have to introduce new proteins at some point anyways, so this will be good to get them all eating another meat. If he does like it better than the chicken, then Great it may help move him along a bit. PS If you ever got the lettuce that can be used instead of pumpkin as a fiber. Just remember to freeze AND blend it very well (doesn't matter which order you do it in). It'd probably be easiest to mix it into their soup. PPS If you mentioned this before I apologize, but what are your feelings on whole prey, and what are your feelings on live prey?
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Post by katt on Feb 5, 2012 3:46:30 GMT -5
Also, try crushing the kibble pieces up and sprinkling them over the top of the soup. If he'll eat it that way, you can (hopefully) decrease the kibble pieces without him noticing as easily. Do you think you can find some probiotics? You can get some online if a store nearby doesn't have any, but I think they'd really help.
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