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Post by kpaz on Feb 5, 2012 13:06:17 GMT -5
Where could I find probiotics? Would they be in the medicine section or are there any common brands? I don't mind diverging the diets. I know Goomba is the slowest. I'll have to go to the store tonight and get some pork and look for the probiotics, I have to make more soup tonight anyway. Should I do it differently for Ellie and Pippin? Do I still use chicken hearts and liver but just mix it with pork meat?
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Post by katt on Feb 5, 2012 15:20:20 GMT -5
You should be able to find probios in a pet store or by the vitamins. You want gel capsule over tablet bc then you can olen the capsule and sprinkle a small amount of the powder out. As for the soup, try just pork with no liver or heart - I think he may take to that a little faster and if he does have a chicken sensitivity we want all chicken out. We can add them back in later. For all 3 offer some pork soup. If they'll eat it then stick to that. If not mix it into some of your chicken soup. For Ellie and Pippin we want to start decreasing the amount of soup and increasing the amour of chunks - chicken and/or pork. For Goomba we want to get him on an all-pork soup (add calcium, pumpkin, and probios) for a while and work on getting him to eat slivers of pork meat.
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Post by kpaz on Feb 5, 2012 15:37:06 GMT -5
OK sounds good. I made the chunks extra big today and Pippin chewed on them a little, but they seemed a bit confused by them. I'll go back to the smaller chunks and add some pork for them, and I'll see how Goomba takes to the pork. I won't be able to do it until the evening but I'll let you know how it goes. And I did cut the pumpkin with a few drops of tone. Goomba liked it a lot, Ellie was a little unsure but ate a tiny bit, and Pippin still thinks I'm trying to kill him
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Post by katt on Feb 5, 2012 18:04:36 GMT -5
See how they take it in the soup. That's good if Goomba will eat it high, give him a little each day and see if that helps with his poop. As for the chunks it will take time for them to build up their jaw strength. As long as they'll eat the bigger chunks that's good. How much bigger were they though? You may be better off right now simply decreasing the soup and increasing the chunks in quantity (rather than in size). Let me know how it goes tonight!
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Post by kpaz on Feb 5, 2012 21:21:26 GMT -5
I didn't buy the probiotics because I wasn't sure what kind to get. They only ate the pork with kibble, except for pippin, he doesn't like it. I think you asked about whole prey; I like the idea but I'm not sure about the affordability. as for live prey, I don't think I would be able to kill it if they don't, and I've seen them mangle lizards and just leave them. So I don't think that would be an option. I have three tests this week so I really hope the food I made will make it through the week... But I know it won't.
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Post by katt on Feb 5, 2012 23:18:04 GMT -5
Ugh. Test week! When you say they'd only eat it with kibble do you mean with the 5 pieces mixed in or with kibble as an ingredient of the soup? Did you try mixing a little pork soup into the chicken soup? It's an entirely new flavor, so it's normal to see resistance at first. How many cubes of soup are they collectively eating in a day right now?
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Post by kpaz on Feb 5, 2012 23:42:38 GMT -5
They're eating 8-14 cubes. I meant with kibble mixed in. I didn't blend any into it. I added a few piece of pork to the chicken soup and some pumpkin, it kind of neutralized the smell. I mixed it in with the kibble/pork soup and they didn't like it. Hopefully they will eat the new chicken soup, if not I don't know what I'm going to do. I will try to get the probiotics tomorrow evening when I get home. It took me 3 hours to make all the soup and I'm exhausted so I'm going to get some sleep. If you have any tips I'd be grateful to hear them though.
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Post by katt on Feb 6, 2012 1:43:59 GMT -5
Lol Little stinkers. They'll eat it, it might just take some hand feeding. Rest assured it's not always this tiring and time consuming. Once they move on to chunks things become a lot easier. And once they're on a fully balanced diet the prep time is pretty low. I spend a few hours (max) one day chopping up meats and bones and portioning them into sandwich sized ziplocks. Then I stock the freezer and I'm usually good to go for several months. As for getting them to eat the new soup, it's just new chicken soup with pumpkin in it? I guess I'm a little confused. What are the different soups that you have right now? Ie chicken pumpkin, chicken pork pumpkin, pork? Either way, try mixing a little Tone in. Scruff n stuff if you have to to get them to taste it. Then spoon feed and lower the spoon to the bowl and back off until they eat it on their own. You may not even haveto go through all of that. Each new meat we add will typically get easier and easier as they learn to recognize Meat as food, ESP once they are eating more chunks. The kibble to soup to chunk transition is probably the most time consuming and frustrating. Stick with it!
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Post by kpaz on Feb 6, 2012 8:06:59 GMT -5
Right now I have chicken pumpkin + a tiny bit of pork and plain pork. They ate the chicken one I just mentioned this morning. Tonight when I have a little more time I'm going to slowly add pork while they eat ad see how much they'll tolerate. I let them sleep out the cage last night, Ellie groomed my arm until I woke up because it was getting a hit raw ;D And pippin had a single poop outside the litter box but besides that they were perfect I've been trying to brush the loose fur out of their coats but it just keeps on coming. And of course, it finally gets cold now...
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Post by katt on Feb 6, 2012 13:32:04 GMT -5
Right now I have chicken pumpkin + a tiny bit of pork and plain pork. They ate the chicken one I just mentioned this morning. Tonight when I have a little more time I'm going to slowly add pork while they eat ad see how much they'll tolerate. I let them sleep out the cage last night, Ellie groomed my arm until I woke up because it was getting a hit raw ;D And pippin had a single poop outside the litter box but besides that they were perfect I've been trying to brush the loose fur out of their coats but it just keeps on coming. And of course, it finally gets cold now... lol Hey, that's progress. You sleep in their room? That's very brave of you! ;D It sounds like they are doing good. all 3 of them ate the chicken-pork soup? Was that still with kibble, or without?
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Post by kpaz on Feb 6, 2012 14:27:28 GMT -5
That was with the 4-5 pieces of kibble in it. I rarely sleep in my bedroom anymore I never have any problems except occasionally Ellie will decide to groom my eyebrows and if they get an itch they don't hesitate to sprint across my face
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Post by kpaz on Feb 6, 2012 23:30:22 GMT -5
They didn't eat as much today. I put two cubes of pork in the chicken soup this evening and they ate most of it, but there was still some at the bottom of the dish. Pippin is doing well with the small chunks, Ellie is still getting there. The feeding den didn't stop Ellie from stashing hers chunks elsewhere She's too fast. Goomba feels extremely heavy and is still pooping mucousy yellow as far as I've seen. I had no time to get probiotics today. Tomorrow I need to get gas and it will be on the way. I gave him some pumpkin which he ate but I didn't get a chance to see the resulting poop because I was doing assignments for my online class Should I go ahead and make another appointment for this weekend? I have a bad feeling my vet will want me to switch back to kibble since "it seems that they didn't have any problems until the switch"
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Post by katt on Feb 7, 2012 4:34:54 GMT -5
As long as he's not showing any other symptoms and seems alert and active, is eating and drinking etc I would see how it goes with the pork and probiotics. I would call though and ask about the vet's opinion on the possibility of a spinal thrombosis and how they'd check for it. Heather made an interesting comment about Goomba... A few actually... "I don't like to be the bearer of bad news (seems to be my position lately ) but a spinal thrombosis is often a precursor to an underlying heart condition I don't know if she's thought of this yet but it's written in just about any ferret how to book"
"Just make sure that the probiotics come out of a fridge. They're live bacteria and cannot be dehydrated into a powder, or some dried capsules. All my guys were diagnosed with xrays for the heart condition. They say it's better to get an ultra sound but my wee little ones' condition was far enough along to be diagnosed with an xray. The problem is that vets think it's a rare disease, it's not. I've had 3 with major heart issues...3 diagnosed....Attila was never diagnosed, he just had a massive coronary and died. I never knew, until it happened that this could be an issue. Now, that I know what to look for, I'm seeing it, and catching it earlier...I'm sure that there are a lot more out there than we think and as vets don't look for it...it won't be found." Die hard naturalists will tell you that the bacteria must be live to work. Once you dehydrate it into a powder it's no longer live bacteria. I can get it at a health food store. It looks similar to milk, you buy it in small containers and it can be a bit pricey (but you don't use much at a time). You can always use acedophilous which is also a probiotic"
Some things to consider. Heather is very experienced and I value her input greatly. I've always used powdered probiotics and they seemed to help, I'd never even heard of a liquid form. I'll have to look into that, I'm sure they'd work better than dry but I'm not sure I'm convinced dry won't work either.
His bloat and poop could be from hairballs - if so the pumpkin should help. Try a litle Vaseline again too if you feel the need. It's not good to use it super often but it could certainly help pass a hairball. They make ferretlax too, not sure how good it is compared to Vaseline though, it's basically Vaseline and pumpkin. If it IS a chicken allergy or sensitivity, it won't fully improve after some time after eliminating chicken from the diet. If he shows any other symptoms, consider a vet trip. If he is not improving with the diet change (After he is on Fully pork diet for at least a few days), pumpkin, and probios then def co sided a vet visit. You may consider a fecal test at any point in time too - just bring in a fresh sample. The problem there is: ferrets naturally have a high volume of bacteria in their feces and it takes a ferret-knowledgeable vet to read the results. They pass bacteria quickly and raw meat is rarely if ever an issue (think about how old meat is in the wild after they stashed it, urinated on it, and came back on a few days! Yuck!) but if he has some sort of GI infection the change in diet itself (not that it's raw specifically, just that he is having a major dietary change which can cause GI upsets in it's own rights) is aggravating it. Sherry seemed inclined to agree with the possibility of a food allergy based off of the poop pics. I'd agree - reminds me of when Koda was having really bad IBD flare ups. BUT YOU KNOW YOUR FERRETS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. mother knows best.
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Post by katt on Feb 7, 2012 4:37:08 GMT -5
If he is still shedding that could def explain hairballs. Some ferrets are more prone to hairballs than others, and even that can vary by year. I'd never had problems with Koda and hairballs before then this summer->winter he had some trouble. Winter-> summer (he changed early) he had no trouble even though he was shedding a thicker coat.
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Post by kpaz on Feb 7, 2012 21:04:12 GMT -5
I will have to look around for the liquid form; until then I will give the capsules a try. I am going to the store tonight to get them. I'm hoping it's just a hairball that will pass, he shed very quickly and is still losing fur all over. I'm adding cubes of pork to the chicken soup since he won't eat the pork alone yet. I'm still worried about his legs, though. They haven't quit trembling and he still walks slow and clumsily, sometimes painfully and always stiff. He doesn't like when I try to massage them, Heather had mentioned it helping. I don't know if it's hurting him or it's just uncomfortable. Would a bath help if he's shedding, or will he be more likely to swallow more fur since he'll groom again after? Maybe it is a heart condition. He seems to have gotten the worst genes; he's always sickly And I think he may have the slightest rectal prolapse, probably from constantly pooping mucous This is what they're eating right now. The pork soup added a bit of liquid to it. I left the spoon so you could see how big the chunks are, though I'm not sure if it's really easy to compare. Pippin and Ellie are eating the chunks. Goomba will pick them up and move them out of the way.
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