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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2012 13:27:54 GMT -5
For the past four years i've bred ferrets but i've now decided that I no longer want to breed. I'm planning on having my hob, Bear, vasectomised so that he can still bring my two jills out of season.
But my question is.. Can I still keep Bear in with the girls after he has brought them out of season or would it be best to keep them seperated?
When they aren't in season they are all kept together and get on well but I wasn't sure whether even though he'd have brought them out of season, whether he would still pester them if you catch my drift, hehe, or whether he'd be okay with them?
Thanks, Lydia
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2012 14:28:54 GMT -5
I read in a couple places that using a V-hob is often times unsuccessful, or the V-hob ends up impregnating anyway. Is this wrong, is it effective almost all of the time?
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Post by Heather on Jan 7, 2012 15:15:08 GMT -5
A vasectomized hob is the way to go if you might still have the chance that you want to breed or you do not want to spay your jills (for whatever reason). I know that if I had intact jills that I would want a V-hob as my primary method of bringing them out of season. There is a possibility that the surgery will be botched (surgeon who is unfamiliar with the surgery, though it's becoming more prevalent in cats) and your hob may still be firing on a single cylinder (this means he can still impregnate your jills) or I've heard from some breeders that the tubes can grow back (now you will have to have your v-hob done long enough between surgery and use for all the sperm to die off too). Now...according to my vet if the surgery is done correctly the later should not happen. I've also heard that a v-hob living with jills cannot service those jills. I don't honestly understand why not so I would like to hear from some of the breeders on this board if this indeed the case. I would think that hormones are hormones and there should be no reason why a v-hob cannot live comfortably with his girl-friends and service them too. I think you're going to hear a lot of different versions here. I personally would have a v-hob or two if I was going to keep intact jills (I'm still not on side for using the Des implant for chemical castration though it's definitely an option if you are into experimenting with your breed stock) This is a personal opinion. I've never kept intact fuzzes, this has been things that I've heard over the years of being on different boards. How about it, Bev, Joan, Foxfire, Lorelei...Nancyl? Your imput is needed here. If you don't use a V-hob what reasons do you have not to? I believe a couple of these ladies do keep a v-hobs. I know that Bev does, I think I heard Joan mention that she does but I'm not sure. So, come on ladies us people who don't deal with intact fuzzes are curious . ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2012 15:21:01 GMT -5
The V-hob failure rate is amazingly HIGH. Surgeries that are successful can heal - and I read that this can happen as long as 2 years after the surgery. I looked for the article, which I found a couple of years ago...a survey had been conducted by a ferret club in the UK to determine the failure rate on v-hobs. I cannot recall details, but the rate of "oops" litters from v-hobs was alarming.
If you have a v-hob, he will probably have to live separately for a good part of the year.
-jennifer
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2012 19:26:23 GMT -5
thanks for your comments so far. i've never had any experience with a vasectomised hob, all my ferrets have been intact. would be very interested to hear from anyone who uses a V-Hob!
Thanks, Lydia
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Post by joan on Jan 7, 2012 19:31:23 GMT -5
No, I've never had a v-hob, primarily because I wasn't able to locate a vet who had ever done the surgery or was willing to try it for the first time with one of my hobs. After reading about a couple v-hobs who had developed a hydrocele a few years after I began breeding, I decided I didn't want to risk that happening to one of mine and gave up on trying to locate a vet who was willing to do a vasectomy. Instead, I used Marie's method of allowing an intact hob to take a jill out of heat if I didn't want a litter from her...it's basicly coitus interruptus, and I've never had a jill get pregnant using this method.
I've read numerous posts, from both US and UK breeders, of v-hobs who either were not done correctly and turned out to still be fertile, or who regained their fertility after a year or two and sired litters, so either situation is not at all uncommon. I'd recommend checking around with other breeders to find a vet who has a good record with this surgery...evidently it's fairly difficult to do correctly.
A v-hob is no different from an intact hob in rut, so you would have to keep your jills separated from him during breeding season as usual, except for the time he was breeding them to take them out of heat.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2012 19:41:19 GMT -5
I've found a ferret-specialist not far from me and I believe she has vasectomised Hobs in the past. I suppose i'd have to talk to her about past success rates. About Marie's method, how does that work?
Thanks, Lydia
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Post by lorelei0922 on Jan 8, 2012 5:50:22 GMT -5
a V hob can live with your jills year round ... however it will take a special temerament in said hob to bring the jill out of season and then leave her be!! some never get that gist and badger them constantly throughout the summer. I know from watching my own hobs with jills they have serviced as stud that in general after they have mated successfully they tend to curl up with the jill and leave her be until i take her out of his enclosure. but some never leave off and the jill ends up hassled and harried! I know of personally 8 litters of kits produced last year by a Vasectomised hob ... Proven over 4 yrs of serving jills and then suddenly producing 8 litters of kits including 3 with sisters ((( Any surgery on a ferret is near to micro surgery.. extremely fiddly and the bits they have to take away in this surgery are itty bitty!! If you decide to have this done, you need to pay to have a sample of the removed tissue sent off to be sure they got the right bit.. yeah its that tiny that sometimes they dont get the right bit! We were going to use this method with Sage .. but felt that the risk of kits we didn't plan .. just wasn't worth it.. our jills are brought out of season with a jab when needed. and spayed after they reach their first season if we dont intend to breed from them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2012 7:00:51 GMT -5
usually when I put one of my jills in with him he'll cover them and then i'll come in the next day and they are just curled up together and he seems to just leave her alone.
do you have any idea how much it would cost (roughly) to have the sample sent off by any chance?
does any one else think i'd be better off paying for the girls to get the jab each year?
thanks, Lydia
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Post by lorelei0922 on Jan 8, 2012 12:21:13 GMT -5
some vets are happy to jab each year.. some will only do a single jab in a jills life.. the newest advise is to have them implanted with the deselorin implant.. this will keep them out of season for up to 18 months though there is a new one coming out that should do for 2+ years. you can have all your ferrets implanted both the jills and hobs.
this Should give you the future option to breed if you wish to... cost is around the £50 - £80 ish.. depending on where you are...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2012 12:27:08 GMT -5
yeh i've heard about the implants but don't know whether to trust them or not? I could never find anything about them online, and thought it would just be cheaper for them to get the jab each year. i'll definitely have another look online about it. I think right now i'm more for having them get the jab each year.
if anyone has used the implant, what do you think of it?
Thanks Lydia
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Post by crazylady on Jan 8, 2012 15:27:39 GMT -5
Hi in the past 30 years I have only had one botched vas hob ( and that was two years ago ! a vet removed part of a muscle instead of tube ! but good vets will send off the tube to the labs for you just to make sure ) normally I wait 8 weeks after a vasectomy and try him with one jill then sit out the six weeks ( fingers crossed nothing viable left lol ) normally at the beginning of breeding season I place him in a cage on his own ( so he gets in the mood for lady callers lol ) but once breeding season is over he can spend all winter curled up with his lady friends because them living together all the time can swing one of two ways either he knows them too well and doesn't fancy them or drives them crazy trying to over do the love making bit lol as for price now that does vary as to where you live lol any where from 42 to 192 !!! yep lorelie a vet tried to charge me 192 for a simple vasectomy on a ferret and the cheapest and dearest vet were 5 miles apart lol take care bye for now Bev
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2012 15:57:47 GMT -5
thanks Bev. I've phoned round a few vets and the most reasonably priced vet was charging £70. I'm still undecided as to whether I should get my hob vasectomised or whether to give my jills the jab each year. Lydia
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2012 18:39:11 GMT -5
regarding Joan's comment: "I've read numerous posts, from both US and UK breeders, of v-hobs who either were not done correctly and turned out to still be fertile, or who regained their fertility after a year or two and sired litters, so either situation is not at all uncommon." ....Again, I have read and heard from breeders that v-hobs that have been infertile for up to 2 year can regain fertility. It's weird, but even if the tubes are cut and tied off, some ferrets apparently can heal up to 2 years later. -jennifer
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Post by crazylady on Jan 9, 2012 17:05:18 GMT -5
Hi lydia I would phone around and ask the cost of the jill jabs ( remembering some jills may need two a year) and if you have two or more jills it can work out pretty expensive ! because most vets charge a consultation fee and vat on top of the jab so in the long run it can work out cheaper to have a hob vasectomised ( boy I can remember way back when the consultation fee used to be £1.00 per ferret and a jab was £5.00 per jill those were the good old days sigh ) take care bye for now Bev
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