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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 22:33:05 GMT -5
Hi Amber! It's nice to meet you! At this point in the transition the supervised feedings are more to keep an eye on them and make sure they keep eating by themselves. The soup out between feedings is partially because 1) a ferrets digestive tract is only about 3-4 hours long, and going too long without food can cause liver issues and 2) once we get Bo and Blaze eating an actual frankenprey menu (chicken wings, rabbit ribs, duck spines, etc) they will go off of a twice a day feeding schedule and have access to food all day. so we are already on track with getting them used to having access to food at all times. The twice a day supervised feedings also have another purpose; when we begin introducing bigger pieces of meat. Ferrets can be VERY stubborn and generally don't care for change, this intensifies as they get older. So when bigger pieces are introduced to them, there is the chance that they will notice and reject the soup all over again. (We are actually right on the edge of introducing bigger pieces!) I hope this makes sense! Also, you're awesome for watching the fuzzies! No one in my family would do that for me. It's nice to meet you too! That's really interesting. I never knew that their digestive track was so short. Between the two of them, how much should they be eating? Or is it kind of a guessing game? I know Sierra gives them 2-3 cubes a meal, but she didn't tell me how much I should be leaving in the cage during the day. If they empty the 'cage plate',do I refill it immediately?
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 22, 2016 23:32:54 GMT -5
At this point Sierra is trying to figure out how much they eat, the general rule is that they should have a few bites of food leftover by the next feeding. The majority of ferrets self regulate food so they don't over eat and become obese. But, like people, each ferret eats a different amount. Kits are furry black holes with teeth (when I got my two boys, they are 12-15 ounces twice a day), older ferrets don't eat as much (I now have three ferrets and all together they eat about 4-6 ounces twice a day). One key observation with a raw switch is that ferrets generally eat more at the beginning of a switch, then the amount decreases after a few months and will eventually even out to what they will generally eat. This is to make up for lost nutrients through what we call the 'detox phase'. Yes, if they empty the cage plate feel free to add a couple more cubes to it. I'm sorry this is so long, I probably put more information in this than I needed to. Wen it comes to ferrets, I end up word vomiting out information.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 0:27:41 GMT -5
Actually, word vomit is fun . The more I read, the more I understand, so feel free to say as much as you feel like. So is it something to worry about if I give them 2 1/2 oz to eat between them each 'feeding' but them not finish it and instead eat X amount off the cage plate later on?
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 23, 2016 11:20:44 GMT -5
*whew* that makes me feel better! Did Sierra happen to tell you a few of the benefits to feeding raw? First one that I will mention is coat change, they will get super soft. I probably love on my ferrets too much because they are so soft! (giggle) Once the detox phase is over (this can take 2-5 weeks) their smell will also decrease! (I like to compare it to someone who binge drank the night before and smells like it the next morning) I think mine smell like tortilla chips Once ferrets get eating bone in meals, example: chicken wings with bone still in the meat, they clean their own teeth. Teeth cleaning at the vet can be VERY spendy. Also, fun little tidbit, we aren't sure why, but ferrets fed raw can get what we call grape tail. Seriously, their tail smells like grape kool-aid. Mine all rotate through it. To answer your question, it's perfectly normal for them to eat some of it to start, then eat the rest later. I actually have one ferret that will wait (speed bumping in front of me, or on my foot) when he wants food served, but then will only sniff the food when I give it to them and walk away. He will eat later, but it sure is funny to watch him demand food be served.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 13:17:25 GMT -5
If feeding raw is this beneficial, and kibbles cause so much damage, why are there still companies producing the kibbles? I mean it sounds like raw is the optimum choice, right? She did mention the teeth cleaning and the grape tail,but I also noticed their smell has gotten stronger recently. (Either that or she was lacking on litter box ) On a side note, I took them out to play and Blaze seems to be hoarding plastic. The stuff that comes in Amazon boxes (pre-popped amd only under supervision). Is that a normal behavior? She has a video of it somewhere,it's the funniest thing! They ate somewhere between 2-2.5 oz this morning.
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 23, 2016 15:13:53 GMT -5
Kibble companies generally are more out to produce kibble at a cheap cost, not necessarily in it for the health of the animals they feed. For example, many kibbles contain corn, rice, or wheat fillers as protein additives. They also heat what little meat they put in it to very high temperatures, and heating meat degrades the nutrients. A quick note, even omnivores like us humans can't digest corn, gluten free foods are becoming more popular as the number of wheat allergies rise, and rice has very little nutritional value. And this is just looking at humans. You can imagine how much worse it is on obligate carnivores like ferrets. If you look at the ingredients list on a bag of kibble the ingredients are given in order of their amount in the diet, starting with the largest. People in general feel more comfortable not being reminded that their pet eats flesh, and many veterinary schools are funded by kibble companies. I've seen people try to argue that 'domesticated' animals have evolved to ingest kibbles. Domestication is nothing more than breeding for a tamer animal that will be easier to work with. It does nothing to change how the intestines work. This brings me to my main reason for switching my ferrets, insulinoma. The excess carbs and sugars cause the pancreas to produce too much insulin, the cells in the pancreas will eventually end up working too hard and burning out, damaging the pancreas. This is like diet induced diabetes in humans. Once the pancreas has been damaged beyond repair, medications are required to keep the ferrets blood glucose at a healthy level. One of my best friends has genetic diabetes, and I watch him occasionally crash from either too much sugar or not enough. It physically hurts him. I want to do what is in my power to keep my ferrets from having that. That is a very long and complicated answer to your question about kibble, but that question doesn't have a short answer for me. Bo and Blaze are currently in the detox phase of the raw diet. the detox generally includes a stronger smell for a month or so. as long as the plastic is under supervision there's nothing wrong with it. One of mine prefers to try to hoard my big fuzzy slippers and big boxes, another likes to tuck and scoot socks, and my female loves hoarding plastic Easter eggs. She also ends up chasing them all around the room (giggle) They also enjoy when I toss socks at them. that's a good amount! They are still eating all by themselves, no help from you?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 15:41:29 GMT -5
Wow!! I had no idea kibbles were so bad. Isn't there anything pet owners can do to prevent that? I know we feed raw, but other than that? (Pull up studies, bring them to kibble company attention). So this insulinoma, it's basically ferret diabetes? That's awful. Do they get put on medication for it? All I have to do is put the bowl in front of them, and they eat it themselves.
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 23, 2016 20:46:20 GMT -5
Honestly, I didn't know how bad they really were until I joined this forum and started doing some research. I hopped on the raw train pretty easily from previous ideas about feeding a better balanced diet for animals and how that affected the coat and shedding factor, but I didn't stop to think why. I think we are making great strides in making this more well known considering that 40 years ago, raw feeders hid in the shadows. Until people stop buying from kibble companies, I don't see them actually stopping production. Hopefully they will actually put more effort forth into research on what's best to put in our pets. Yes, insulinoma is essentially diet related ferret diabetes. On a raw fed diet, a ferrets insulinoma can be controlled for a short while, but will eventually have to be put on medication and fed small meals every 4-6 hours so they don't go into a blood glucose crash. Ferrets with insulinoma on medication will get a big belly. The big issue that happens eventually is that a ferret with insulinoma can lose the use of its back legs, and have seizures. There's a video on here with what we call a 'screaming seizure'. It breaks my heart to watch it. On to happier things, I'm still just so impressed with Bo and Blaze! They have caught on so quickly!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2016 21:24:33 GMT -5
Sierra showed me the video of the 'Screaming Seizure'. It's so terrifying and sad. I can't say I completely understoof at first but now I do; I'd switch to raw too if I saw the end like that.
Are Bo and Blaze fast learners compared to others? How long does it usually take for them to catch on?
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 23, 2016 21:50:58 GMT -5
After I watched that video I began to look into insulinoma more. That video was the only thing that convinced my husband that kibble was bad for them. He was convinced that a raw diet was completely optional and more the owners preference. He used to tell me 'They wouldn't make kibble if it wasn't good for animals' and 'They would be fine on a kibble diet'. He hasn't said that since seeing the video and my explaination of why that happened. For being older ferrets they are moving surprisingly quickly. I actually expected more of a tantrum with them. Switching over to raw CAN take over six months. I've heard of some switches that their ferrets get stuck on the soup stage up to five months or more, even seen some that it took up to four months to get the ferrets to accept the soup from a spoon. Sierra' s little fuzzies sure have been a pleasant surprise!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 12:25:24 GMT -5
After I watched that video I began to look into insulinoma more. That video was the only thing that convinced my husband that kibble was bad for them. He was convinced that a raw diet was completely optional and more the owners preference. He used to tell me 'They wouldn't make kibble if it wasn't good for animals' and 'They would be fine on a kibble diet'. He hasn't said that since seeing the video and my explaination of why that happened. For being older ferrets they are moving surprisingly quickly. I actually expected more of a tantrum with them. Switching over to raw CAN take over six months. I've heard of some switches that their ferrets get stuck on the soup stage up to five months or more, even seen some that it took up to four months to get the ferrets to accept the soup from a spoon. Sierra' s little fuzzies sure have been a pleasant surprise! Sierra should be back sometime tomorrow! I think throughout the day, they're eating about somewhere between 5 to 6 oz. Is there a certain amount they should be be eating? What's the next step for their diet?
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 24, 2016 17:19:21 GMT -5
I hope everyone is doing okay! She mentioned it was a family emergency. actually, that sounds perfect! They are doing great with the amount! The next step we will be doing is introducing larger pieces of meat in the soup hopefully they don't boycott it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 22:58:46 GMT -5
I'm home early! Family emergency was taken care of. Looks like 4 cubes is the right amount for overnight. They eat about 5ish cubes during the day. My aunt didn't take Bo or Blaze out to feed them, just stayed and made sure both ate. Is that okay? :/
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Post by Aftershock on Oct 25, 2016 0:40:07 GMT -5
Welcome back! I'm glad you're back safely! So they were just eating in the cage? Eating in the cage is fine.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 8:49:39 GMT -5
Glad to be back haha Okay great! Just wanted to make sure. I have a question. Qould it be okay to save the eggshe powder in a tin can? 8T previously held baby formula but it's been rinsed and washed before use.
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