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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 19:44:20 GMT -5
So I brought home my first ferrets today - Olivia and Sophie - see my other thread for pictures: holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=1596And I have questions already - research really can't prepare you for the real things! ;D 1. Olivia and Sophie are on this crappy commercial diet from Petland (Living World Ferret Extrusion Diet) so I bought a bag as not to upset their tummies. The kibbles are super tiny and they were not moistening them at the pet store but I'm thinking they need to be softened... Will the change in texture make them not want to eat their food though? Also what's the best way to soften the food? And how long after it has been softened can it be left in the cage for? 2. I have water bottles and water dishes in their cage (the girls drank from water bottles at the pet store) and Olivia insists on dunking her ENTIRE head under water and then drinking. Now I've read about ferrets snorkling and having a good ol' time in their water dishes, but she's trying to drink while she's under water and I swear she's getting water in her lungs. This can't lead to a respiratory infection can it? I don't really want to take away the way dishes because they're kind of chewing at the water bottles and I'm thinking those might have to go. 3. Olivia and Sophie keep jumping off of the levels and jumping/falling out of hammocks, despite the ramps and carefully set up hammocks I have to make sure they can climb into and out of them, rather than jump. They can't get hurt like this can they? 4. They are tracking the Scwheat Scoop Litter EVERYWHERE and keep getting it IN their water dish. How bad is this in terms of bacteria? I'm actually considering switching to pelleted litter... how do you guys prevent tracking? Like this stuff is EVERYWHERE. 5. How long should I wait before attempting to switch their diet to something better? I am definitely not ready to try raw yet as I'm going to be super busy just getting to know the ferrets, so I was thinking of switching them onto a good kibble mix first. I know it's easier to switch straight to raw, but I would like to get eating a healthier kibble too because: 1. my mom won't want to feed raw if I ever have to go away without the ferrets. 2. What happens in a power outage / emergency when you have to leave your home? You can't really take raw food with you. And 3. I'd rather them be on a healthy kibble so that the raw switching process can take as long as it needs to take and I won't have to worry about them being on crap in the mean time. And finally... last question I promise! 6. How long should I let them get settled for? When Should I start handling them? When should I let them out of the cage for the first time (I need to recheck my ferret proofing a few times first!)? How long should I wait until I take them to the vet? Their next booster shot is due May 10th, but I have to take them to one of Petland's approved vets for a free checkup to validiate the warranty before then and then I'll take them to a vet of my choice for the shots. Sorry for all of the questions!! Thanks!!! EDIT: One more question - they are chewing on everything they can get their teeth on in the cage - metal clips from the bedding, the cage wires, their litter boxes, etc. I'm pretty sure they are teething. What are the best "teething toys" for them? I was thinking those plastic baby teething toys like the keys, are those okay? Also Petland told me about using some called "Bitter Apple for ferrets" on things I don't want them to bite (i.e. my fingers). I use bitter apple to stop my dogs from chewing things they shouldn't (like the wall!) But is it okay for ferrets? This one's called "Grannicks Bitter Apple Taste Deterrent For Ferrets" and the ingredients are: Water, Isopropanol 5%, Bitter Principles and Extractives. Thanks again!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 20:29:07 GMT -5
Personally, I would switch them to raw right away, as, being young, they should take to it easily. The longer you wait, the much more difficult it can be. And congrats on your babies!
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 30, 2011 20:39:35 GMT -5
wow. that's alot. first of all: relax. enjoy your new pets. as for the food, you don't have to worry about upset stomachs with kits. I would not feed them the lower quality kibble at all. If you feel that you should feed kibble, don't feel bad because alot of people feed high quality grain free kibbles along with raw. i would use a mix of grain free kibbles. these are all good brands: EVO, Orijen and Go! made by Petcurean (I believe it is the chicken/turkey/duck formula that is grain free). it sounds like freeze dried raw is the way to go for you. go to caseys hidden pantry they sell a variety. my ferret loves Duck Duck Goose, Dandy Lamb, and Big Beef Dinner from Stella & Chewy's. he also likes Wysong Archetypal 1 and the Wysong Dream treats (beef or chicken he likes the best. for some reason he doesn't like the pheasant too much). i break the patties up into little pieces and leave them in the food bowl. he eats when he wants and i don't bother adding water to rehydrate it because he "rehydrates" his freeze dried food himself (he just drops it in the water bowl and fishes it out-- i have to change his water out twice a day). as for the snorkeling and breathing in water, what sound is she making? hopefully she will learn her lesson fast. make sure she doesn't sound congested and isn't hacking. they can and do develop aspiration pneumonia. but i think she will learn after the first time that she cant stick her head in there. if she keeps doing it, switch to the bottles for now. as for the litter, yes they do this (even when they are adults) and this is why i just put newspapers down at whatever corner they decide to go to the bathroom in. i don't even bother with litter. mind you, they will "play" with their urine soaked newspapers and they will shred the newspaper. but as they get older they get better. baby ferrets do chew on everything. make sure that you check their bedding and toys daily as they can and do chew on and swallow fabric. get some N-Bones for them. cheweasels are also good. don't buy any toys made out of soft plastic or rubbery. i have NEVER found a bitter spray that worked on Sonny. they seem to make him bite and chew even more and i'm the only one that gags from it. he is not phased one bit from any of those sprays. so i returned all of them. as for the falling issues in the cage, i can't help you there bc my ferrets have always been free roam. i usually don't take them to the vet until they've been home for a month. give them a chance to settle in and relax. and i would start handling them right away! as for letting them out, ferret proofing is done by following them around and seeing WHERE and WHAT they try to get into!! this is an every day thing. it never ends. make sure that you put all of your shoes away when you let them out. put the electrical cords up high so they can't get to them. NOTHING rubber out and no place where they can get stuck (like between furniture and the wall) my friend lost a ferret that way he got stuck behind a piece of furniture. either put the furniture right up against the wall so there is no chance of him getting back there at all or leave a space that is wide enough for the ferret to get through. do not leave any medications, aspirins, etc. in the room/area where they play. put them high up in a medicine cabinet. do not leave out any pieces of rubber, headphones, ear plugs, nothing foamy. don't leave out styrofoam either. they can get blockages from that. be careful if you let them into the kitchen because they can climb and get to fruits, chocolate, etc. my ferret Al used to steal broccoli from your plate and he'd get violent and hissy when you chased him down to take it away from him. one of my other ferrets was poisoned eating chocolate and it was not even a large amount that he had. so really, when you let them out, since your place is not fully "ferret proofed" don't sit on the couch and watch tv or listen to music or play on the computer. they are like 2 year olds with ADHD you must watch them constantly. if a ferret is quiet and you don't hear them, this means that they are chewing on something that they are not supposed to. kitchens and laundry rooms are usually the most dangerous place for them. i'd keep them out of those places.
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Post by fearless on Apr 30, 2011 20:59:26 GMT -5
I agree, don't wait to start raw right away, hop over to the Natural Food area of this forum, click on Mentoring Program, and up top is a thread stickied, sign up for a mentor, it will be your life saver!
On with the other questions... Give them time to adjust to having a waterbowl, chances are they arn't use to them. My Zoey I brought home four days ago didn't know what a water bowl was, she snorkeled for the first day, now she drinks from it with the occasional snorkel. I don't think it's too bad have some debris in the water, what I would do is unlock the crock, hold it at comfortable height for both girls to play in, let them get the snorkeling out of their system, then rinse, and refill.
The Ferret Nation cage isn't as high of a fall as most of the other cages that have semi floors. Try to position the hammocks either close to the ground if possible or right over the half shelfs. Leave one side overlaping the shelf. I wouldn't be too worry about them hurting themselves, but keep an eye on them till they get the exiting down.
It tracks, this the one downside to clumping litter. There really isn't a way to keep it in the litter box, you can try repositioning the water to a further place in the cage if you're worried about them getting it in the water bowl.
If you don't want them eating raw right away, I suggest you switch to a better kibble, if the brand of kibble you're using is REALLY bad I'd do a drastic change and try something like mixing it with 75% good and only 25% of the other, then within a week have it be 100% good. I don't know that brand so I'm not sure how bad it is, what are the first few ingredients? Any corn? Any grains? Any kind of sugars such as raisin juice?
I would take them to the vet after a week or two, so they are settled down, you can start handling them and letting them play outside the cage as soon as you'd like. I wait till mine go potty then tell them "Good boy/girl" and show them that I reward them with outside the cage time, this encourages them to go potty in the litter box, and enforces a good habit of them not going outside the cage.
Some people say the bitter apple works, some say it doesn't. I actually just scruff them and tell them "No!" in a firm voice anytime they do something bad. Zoey chewed everything in the cage, including the cage the first few days, afterwards she stopped. I can't say theres any good toy, but bones come to mind right away. You could try the rubber gongs for dogs, any kind of toy really...
Anyways hope this helps, if I didn't cover something please let me know.
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Post by fearless on Apr 30, 2011 21:00:48 GMT -5
P.S I meant to add, even if you feed raw while you're home and kibble while you're gone, get them tasting the raw ASAP!
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Post by Sherry on Apr 30, 2011 21:26:08 GMT -5
I also advise the raw- especially chicken wings to help with the teething. You can also pick up some freeze dried at www.optimalpetfoods.com/, I think they still have the Wysong's Archetypal 1 there. If you like, you can give them the freeze dried raw in place of kibble, or you can pick up some Evo cat/kitten there as well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 21:36:20 GMT -5
Perfect, thanks guys! Olivia has stopped dunking her head under the water and is now drinking normally I think they are getting hang of the ramps and hammocks slowly too so that`s good. Don`t worry I know that ferret-proofing is an ongoing process, I just meant that I still need to move my dresser and clean out any small items that have fallen behind it and then make sure the ferrets can`t get stuck in any way behind there. The food they are on is crap. There`s corn fillers in the first ingredients, etc. So I`d like to get them off of that ASAP. I think I will switch them over to the Evo kibble relatively quickly. Should I moisten the kibble they are on in the mean time? Or all kibble I feed for that matter? And then start adding some freeze-dried raw into their diet... and I will sign up for the mentoring program because I know it`s a bit of a wait. And I`ll start with some soupie recipes this week and maybe even add a bit of raw into that. Was it olive oil that works well for their coat and reducing hairballs? Thanks everyone! I think I am just gonna take a breather for the rest of the night, let them relax and then pick up some better food tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 21:41:27 GMT -5
I will second the freeze-dried raw comment! If you're not ready for raw/whole prey, it's a good way to introduce it and get them eating a better diet. My guys love Ziwipeak, Stella & Chewy's, and Wysong Archetypal-1. As far as the water bowl, I'd put it and the food bowl somewhere away from the litterbox, as mine tend to get litter all in their bowls when in their travel cage (because I don't have many places that I can put their bowls : . Do you have one of those plastic crocks that attach to the side of the cage? Pan and Reks when I first got them (mostly Pan) scrapped their teeth against the side of the food bowl. I never really figured out if it was to help them eat their kibble or because they liked the feeling, but they stopped once they got a little older (couple of months older) and had been switched to freeze-dried raw for a couple months. I think switching to attachable stainless steel water and food bowls would help deter that behavior (this is what I have had now for a year, and they work great). With the litter, I bought a really though plastic litter mat (luckily, no one took to chewing it except Sari, who just punctured it with her teeth a few times, but that was it : ...it helps a little bit. Part of it is their age and OMG NEW THINGS faze ;D They have taken to it as a dig box, I'm sure. With baby ferts, I used pelleted litter until they were a little older. Mine rarely dig in it now (sometimes when it's fresh they will, but not as often as they used to when I first switched to it).
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Post by Sherry on Apr 30, 2011 21:42:22 GMT -5
If they are under 3 months of age, I'd soften their food. With the freeze dried, rehydrate that as well. Not only better for them, but makes the food last a lot longer as well
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 21:54:38 GMT -5
I 3rd or 4th switching them over to a better kibble, freeze dried and even some chicken wings for chewing right away! It's better to start giving them raw before they imprint on the kibble making the switch harder later on in life. I live in Florida and power outages are the norm here...and with hurricane season fast approaching I've already started getting my supplies together for our pets. In the event of having to evacuate I have a rubbermaid bin with extra meds, medical records, rabies and county licenses, and pictures of each animal with their names and identifying marks listed on the backs, this is for the now 11 ferrets, 4 cats and 3 dogs. The raw meat for the animals can come along with us in a cooler.... As for raw going bad in the event of a power outage I really haven't had that happen and there have been times where we've been without power for up to 3 weeks (Thankyou Hurricane Charlie) I made sure that I had coolers with ice to keep everything from going bad as it defrosted and this is for all the food not just the pets food (keeping the freezer doors closed at all times helped keep things frozen and it took about 3-4 days without power before the frozen stuff completely thawed) and because hurricanes are a fact of life when we could afford it we bought a gas generator that my BIL installed a special panel for that we can run the two fridges, the AC and our TV off of.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 30, 2011 22:15:05 GMT -5
Rose after hurricane katrina we lost power for several weeks and after wilma we lost power for a whole month!! Yes I would wet the kibble. Keep in mind, if you are feeding a high protein/low carb kibble like EVO, Go, or Orijen, you will see runny stools. I would therefore add 1 teaspoon of raw pureed pumpkin to the kibble mush. Pumpkin is used for hairballs too. I also use tomlyns natural hairballs remedy (it is petroleum and sugar free).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 22:37:04 GMT -5
Awesome advice everyone! I cannot say thank you enough! They were born February 28 so they are only just over 2 months old. I will wet their kibble and hopefully pick up some freeze-dried food within the next day or so. Good to know about using freezers with ice in case of power outages and emergencies! Also good to know about the pumpkin, I always keep some on hand for the hedgehogs so I will stock up. The canned plain pumpkin is fine right? It`s raw and pureed so I assume so. I do have lock crocks and have the water bowl placed as far away from the litter as I can get it currently, but maybe I`ll try moving it onto one of the platform levels, that way it`s even further away. As for chicken wings... are we talking just like raw plain chicken wings I can buy at my local grocery store? Do I just give them one? Or do I need to chop them into smaller pieces? Are all of the bones okay? You have to forgive me, I`m so used to dogs and chicken bones being a major hazard and being capable of cutting up their intestines and causing blockages, so I`m still really nervous about feeding bone and don`t want to screw it up!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 22:37:56 GMT -5
Extra virgin olive oil is a great hairball preventative.
Just curious, what shots are they do for? How old are they? Studies are beginning to show that multiple vaccinations are not only not more effective than a single shot when the immune system is mature, but also harmful to the immunity of the animal.
Congrats on your kids. Relax, let them out to play, see where they gravitate to and have fun!
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Post by Heather on Apr 30, 2011 22:38:24 GMT -5
Oh, you're going to hate us ;D ;D I would be switching to raw asap. It's so much easier than anything else. I picked up Minion on Thurs evening, he was eating raw by Thurs night, ate raw mush all Fri. had gibbies and hearts Fri night. ate the cat food on Sat, ate his first juvenile mouse by Sat night. Hasn't looked back. The mice got the kibble he was sent home with. Snorkeling is part of life. Some ferrets do it more than others. Fun-Go is...oh about 4 or 5 yrs old....in his opinion, water is supposed to free. You dig in it, snorkel in it, you take your blankies and fill the bowl with them...you don't share water . If you have a ferret nation, remove the levels until they get more coordinated and are able to negotiate stairs. Minion doesn't believe in them....you climb the cage to get to the shelves. Awww, litter....I use a pelleted paper litter...it means at least when he snorkels in it then in his water I don't get paste Love them, snuggle them, handle them, play with them...hold them while they sleep and take pictures of them.... lots of them. They're babies for short a time and grow by the hour. The more you handle them the sooner they get used to your touch, your smell, you. The sooner they get to know you, the sooner they will bond with you. Ferret-proofing, get down on the floor, flat on your stomach and look around. Those are all the places that are available to them. All the nooks and crannies, all the dust bunnies, plants, electrical cords, pens, pencils with erasers, remotes...things you've never even dreamed of, but on the floor you can see what they see. Bitter apple .... I've never got it to work. You can try it though, each ferret is different. You may not want to put it on your hands though. It does taste really really terrible...if you have any open wounds (baby ferret bites), not only does it sting but you will taste it as it absorbs through your skin Oh, one thing I've found....furbabies on raw chew less or at least seem to. Good luck, have fun and remember....there is no such thing as too many questions ciao
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2011 22:39:18 GMT -5
Yep, plain old chicken wings. Make sure they don't have any additives or sodium injections. You might need to crush the bones a bit with a hammer or mallet. Most babies take to bones very fast. No issues with raw bones. The stomach is very capable of breaking down the bone without injury
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