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Post by Heather on Jul 8, 2014 21:49:35 GMT -5
Name: Anika HF Forum Username: Anika
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
I was watching videos on youtube about ferrets and came across a video of a lady who fed her ferrets raw meat. The idea caught my interest and watched more videos, one of which had a link to this forum. I think her youtube channel is ferret-world.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I would like to fully switch my ferret to a frankenprey frozen/thawed raw diet.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
I think my ferret can benefit from a natural diet. I recently learned how bad the commercial pet food can be and I can't stand to let him eat that junk. I will do anything in my power to make sure he is as happy and healthy as possible.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
I understand that switching my ferret to a natural diet could take many months and a lot of my time. I have no upcoming major life changes until July which is when I have summer school for three weeks. I don't think that summer school will get in the way of switching my ferret to a natural diet.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
Cloud, 5 years old, male, no health issues that I am aware of, he weighs about 1.15kg (2.53lbs), I have had him for 3 years.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup?
He eats Marshall's Premium Ferret Diet. No soup. He also has FerreTone and FerretVite as supplements.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
When I had two ferrets, I would sometimes give them a whole mouse. Cloud refused to touch it but my other ferret ate it.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I am 16 years old (17 in July). I live in Ontario, Canada with my parents, my younger brother, and my ferret, Cloud. My parents have agreed to commit to switching Cloud to a natural diet and they understand what is required of them.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
I have access to a computer all day, every day since I do school online.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). (Both of Cloud)
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave). In a little while your mentor (Gfountain), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun :banana:. Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by gfountain on Jul 9, 2014 13:19:06 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 14:15:32 GMT -5
Hey there gfountain! I make the raw soup cubes and they are in the freezer and ready to go. I did try to feed Cloud some of the raw soup but he gagged and spit it out. Before I made the soup, I gave some of the raw chicken to Cloud to see how he would react; he licked it but then left it alone. I decided not to take summer school so I have much more time now.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:30:54 GMT -5
OK, I’m getting ready to give you a massive information overload. Read through it, but DON’T STRESS over it and don’t try to learn it all overnight. We’ll go over everything here many times during this switch. I just want to have all the basic stuff in one place so you can refer to it as necessary.
Welcome to the world of raw feeding. Since you’re here, you already know that raw feeding is the healthiest and most natural way to feed your fuzzbutts. Obviously, the MOST natural way to feed is to let your ferrets hunt for themselves, but that can be dangerous for the ferret and usually requires ‘hunting lessons.’ Live feeding is not generally recommended for most ferrets. Pre-killed whole prey is the closest most of us get to ‘all natural’, and is probably the easiest way to feed a ferret. Each whole prey meal is completely balanced in and of itself, so there is no need to measure and weigh (and worry about) what they eat. And whole prey poops are awesome in that they are complete little fur- or feather-covered packages that are easy to clean up. However, whole prey can be expensive and some of us (myself included) can’t feed anything that still has a face attached. Commercial grinds are available that, like whole prey, are completely balanced. The company simply takes a carcass and grinds it all up together – meat, bones, organs (usually not fur or feathers). This makes it easy to serve a balanced diet; however, there are no “tooth brushing” benefits with commercial grinds, and again, it can be very expensive. And that brings us to frankenprey, a very popular option for raw feeding. “Frankenprey” is a big word that simply means feeding a balanced diet with grocery store meats. It is probably the most complicated method of feeding in the beginning, because it requires thought on the part of the owner. However, once you understand the basics of frankenprey and establish a routine that works for you, it is very simple to feed your ferret a balanced, healthy raw diet.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:31:38 GMT -5
The goal with frankenprey is to mimic what a ferret would eat in the wild, with the correct balance of organs, muscles, and bones, using foods that you can find at your grocery store. Each part of a prey animal has a unique combination of vitamins and minerals that are essential to the health of your ferret. An imbalance in their diet can and will cause serious health issues, so it is critical that you plan your meals in advance to ensure that your little friends get the nutrition they need for a long and happy life.
Below are a few of the things you will need to know as a raw feeder. All of this information is located in various places on the forum, but I’ve tried to condense some of the basics here for reference. This seems like a lot of information, but believe me, once you get into the actual planning and feeding, this becomes second nature.
First, raw food MUST be served, and is safe to be eaten, RAW. I know that sounds like a really obvious statement, but I’ve heard from several people that they feed raw meat, but they cook it. (I know. I don’t understand that statement either, lol.) Cooking destroys many natural vitamins and minerals in the meat and bones. In fact, cooked bones are extremely dangerous because they can splinter and perforate the stomach or intestines. Raw bones do not splinter. They pass through the intestinal tract safely and are actually smoothed by the stomach acids. They come out the other end a little rubbery feeling, and rounded with no sharp edges.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:33:37 GMT -5
The basic ratio of meat:bone:organ in a balanced diet is approximately 80:10:10. (This is just a general guideline and can vary 5% or so one way or the other.) There are 3 KINDS of foods we need to feed to meet these requirements: muscle meat, edible bone, and organs.
• Organs are considered to be any part of the body that SECRETES something. Examples are liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, reproductive organs, lungs, brains. Liver is the easiest organ to find and should make up at least half of the organ requirement. Other organs can be very difficult to find except directly from a butcher, or from cultural markets. Neither hearts nor gizzards are organs. This is a very common misconception, so be aware of it when shopping for organs. Many meat department personnel and butchers commonly call hearts and gizzards organs, but they are NOT. They are muscle meats, AND heart is required in a ferret’s diet (more on this later).
• Muscle meat is fairly self-explanatory. It is any kind of meat that is NOT an organ, including hearts and gizzards.
• Edible bone is any bone small enough for a ferret to eat. Generally, these are non-weight bearing bones of poultry or small animals. Because we do not feed a bare bone, but rather one with plenty of meat attached, we sort of combine this category with muscle meat and call it “edible bone-in meat”. When I (or others) refer to “bone-in”, this is what we are talking about. If we refer to “muscle meat”, we mean meat that has no bone included (chicken breast, beef roast, etc.) Examples of edible bone-in meats are poultry wings, necks, backs, ribs, sometimes thighs, whole quail, whole Cornish game hen, rabbit, mouse, guinea pig. Sometimes you can find smallish bones from a larger animal that are small enough for a ferret to eat. One example is pork button bones, or pork riblets. Some of those bones are too dense, but occasionally you can find some small enough. Although the bone requirement is only 10-15% of the total diet (more on this variance in a minute), because the bone is attached to muscle meat, edible bone-in meat makes up the majority of a ferret’s diet. It is critical that your fuzzy learn to eat and enjoy bones.
In addition to the 3 KINDS of meat listed above, ferrets also need a minimum of 3 DIFFERENT PROTEINS in their diet, including at least one red meat. Examples of different proteins are chicken, turkey, quail, beef, rabbit, pork, venison, lamb, etc.
Taurine is an amino acid necessary for heart and eye health. Taurine is found in muscles that are used A LOT. This is why heart is a required part of the diet. The heart is constantly working, therefore it is very high in taurine. Heart can be ordered online if you cannot find a local supplier. Another good source of taurine if you cannot source heart is the tongue of a ruminant. Cow tongue can sometimes be found in grocery stores in locations with a large Asian or Hispanic population. If for some reason, you absolutely cannot get either heart or tongue, you can use a taurine supplement (500 mg per ferret per day). The NOW brand is a good one to use because it has no weird fillers in it.
Eggs are a very healthy addition to a ferret’s diet and help in the prevention of hairballs. Generally speaking, a ferret can have the equivalent of one chicken egg per week. (I say the equivalent of a chicken egg because quail eggs, for example, are very small and it takes 2 or 3 of them to equal one chicken egg.) Whether you want to serve the egg all at once or spread it out (a little bit several times a week) is up to you. They CAN be fed the entire egg, yolk and white scrambled together, but if you choose to only serve part of the egg, it MUST be the yolk. During shedding season, it is OK to feed eggs more often. One thing to be aware of when feeding egg is that they can create nasty stinky poops.
And speaking of poop, poop patrol is going to become a fact of your life. You will likely become a little (or a lot) obsessed with your fuzzy’s litter box for the next few weeks at least, and very likely you will soon be able to tell what your ferret ate for dinner just by looking in the litter box. (You can brag about this talent to your friends if you want, lol.) A ferret’s output is a good indicator of his health, and it is how we tell if your fuzzy needs more or less bone in his diet. I mentioned earlier that the diet should include 10-15% bone. Sometimes they need a little more bone, sometimes a little less, depending on the poops. If the poops are loose, they need more bone. If the fuzzy is constipated, or poops look dry and hard, they need less bone. Blood-rich meats (hearts, organs) will cause looser poops; heavy bone meals (like chicken necks) will cause drier, more formed poops.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:34:42 GMT -5
Now, moving on the basic frankenprey menu:
The basic menu should include 7-9 meals of edible bone-in meal, 3-4 meals of muscle meat (1 ½ of which must be heart or tongue), and 1 ½ meals of organ (at least half of which must be liver). This is easier than it looks at first glance. Below is a sample menu (in the format I will want yours to be, when we get to the menu making part, once your ferret is eating all kinds of yummy stuff).
Sun AM: organ meal (liver) Sun PM: edible bone-in meat
Mon AM: edible bone-in meat Mon PM: edible bone-in meat
Tues AM: heart Tues PM: edible bone-in meat
Wed AM: muscle meat Wed PM: edible bone-in meat
Thur AM: heart/organ Thur PM: edible bone-in meat
Fri AM: edible bone-in meat Fri PM: edible bone-in meat
Sat AM: muscle meat Sat PM: edible bone-in meat
You will take this basic menu and rearrange it to suit your needs, making sure to include at least 3 different proteins. It really is simple once you get the hang of it, I promise. When I started the switch with my furkids, I spent waayyyy too much time overthinking things and getting meals ready for the week, but now it only takes 5-10 minutes each week to plan my menu and get meals in order for the whole week. I have a freezer full of meats, portioned into serving size for my 2 fuzzies, labeled and sorted by organ, heart/tongue, muscle, and bone-in. I always pull out my heart and organ requirements first, 1 ½ meals of each, then 2-3 additional muscle meat meals depending on what I have available, and then I finish the week with bone-in.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:44:19 GMT -5
Congratulations! You’ve made it to the end of this mini-book, lol! If you waded through all that information, you can do this switch! I have faith in you, so don’t feel overwhelmed by this information overload and get discouraged. We’ll do this in baby steps, and we’ll go over all this information again as it becomes necessary.
Your information from your application may be outdated since you've had to wait so long, so in order to get to know Cloud, I'll probably be asking some questions that may be redundant. Sorry for that in advance. I understand that you've already made some soup. What soup recipe did you use? If I understand correctly, Cloud is not interested in the soup and it's frozen in cubes. Is that correct? What is he eating now? What meats do you have access to? What about heart and organs - can you source them locally? I'll need you to weigh Cloud again, so we'll have a definite starting weight, and then we'll weigh him about once a week to make sure he's staying stable throughout the switch. I've seen pictures of him (he's a cutie), but if you could post one of his full-body pictures in this thread, it will give us an easily accessible reference. You'll also want to start a food journal to keep track of this journey. I'll try to find a good sample for you to look at and copy. Basically, you just want to know WHAT he ate, how MUCH he ate, his ACTIVITY level, what his POOPS look like, and a WEIGHT every once in a while.
OK, maybe that's all... for now. Looking forward to working with you!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 18:37:57 GMT -5
That's a lot of information! I recognize some of it from exploring the forum and asking questions. It's hard to remember all of that information at once, lol! I have about 14 cubes of raw soup made from 1oz chicken heart, 1oz chicken liver, 8?oz chicken meat and about a tsp of eggshell powder. He is currently eating Marshall's premium ferret diet. I have access to: Chicken: Meat, liver, wing, neck, heart. Beef: Meat liver, heart, kidney, tongue. Duck: Legs, gizzards, liver, breast, or whole (no feathers or organs). Lamb: Kidney, heart, liver, meat. Rabbit: Liver, meat. Pork: Liver, kidney, tongue, meat. Goat: Meat chunks. I made a chart with the stores/butchers, type of meat/organ, and price per kg and lb. As of today, Cloud weighs 2.525 lbs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 19:05:25 GMT -5
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Post by gfountain on Jul 15, 2014 19:20:45 GMT -5
That's a lot of information! I recognize some of it from exploring the forum and asking questions. It's hard to remember all of that information at once, lol!
That is a TON of information, and if you remembered it all at once you would be way too smart for me to be talking to, lol. I don't expect you to remember it all right now, but by the time we get Cloud switched, you should be pretty familiar with most of it. I just wanted to have the important stuff all in one place. It's much easier to look at page 1 of this thread than to search the entire forum for stuff. Not to say that this is all the information you'll EVER need, but it does cover most of the basics. I have about 14 cubes of raw soup made from 1oz chicken heart, 1oz chicken liver, 8?oz chicken meat and about a tsp of eggshell powder. Yayy! Thaw one of those out and we'll get started! I have access to...
You have access to a fantastic variety of meats! Clouds's a lucky little guy. Cute too As of today, Cloud weighs 2.525 lbs.
Good weight. We'll just want to keep an eye on it to make sure it's staying stable. OK, I'm going to assume that Cloud won't touch the soup. If I'm wrong, let me know. Once you have the soup thawed, thin it with warm water to the consistency of thick pea soup. Stick your finger in it and let Cloud lick it off. If we're lucky, he'll like it and he'll go to the dish for more. Use a fairly flat dish instead of a bowl. Ferrets like to be able to see what's going on around them while they eat, and some refuse to put their little heads into a bowl. He might take it OK from your finger, but not want to eat from the dish just yet. In that case, just feed him as much as he'll take from your finger, or try giving it to him on a spoon. If we're not lucky and he acts like you're poisoning him, hacking and gagging and generally being dramatic, we'll have to work a little harder, lol. In this case, you'll sit with him on the floor while he's playing and every few minutes, just pick him up and dab a little of the soup on his nose or even rub a little on his gums. Then let him go. He'll do his dramatics and lick it off, and go back to playing. Do it again. And again. And again. Eventually he'll stop throwing a fit and realize that it's food and it tastes good. Then we're on our way!
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Post by gfountain on Jul 15, 2014 19:42:57 GMT -5
Your Meal Planner looks good (you won't need it for a little while yet but it's good that you're looking ahead), but your food journal may need to be revised a little. You'll feed 2 meals a day, with a 'meal' being everything eaten in a 12 hour period, and you'll need to document the amount you fed, the amount he ate, and his output for each meal. I can NOT get my food journal to attach to this message (stoopid compooters are about to drive me insane today), but basically you'll just want to add a few more columns.. Date, AM meal served (w/ amount), AM meal eaten, poop, PM meal served (w/ amount), PM meal eaten, poop, activity level, weight. I have mine in a spreadsheet going straight across like I just typed those headings, but I've also seen journals that have split rows, so the AM & PM meals are underneath each other with their corresponding amounts eaten and poops. (Does that even make sense?) So however you want to set it up is fine, but you'll need to track, at least for a while, how much you give him and how much he eats so you don't have a lot of waste. Also, to make sure he's getting enough raw to ditch the kibble.
When you make notes, you don't need to put times that he played or reference the poop chart, just basic 'active, very active, more tired than normal' and for poops, 'normal, soft, seedy' whatever. It's pretty easy, but if you're like all the rest of us ferrants, you're probably nervous about the whole switching thing and overthinking things. We'll do this in baby steps, both for you and for Cloud, and you'll be so glad you made the effort when you see how much healthier and happier Cloud will be!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2014 8:25:00 GMT -5
Here is the new food journal: www.dropbox.com/s/su7sypyn77hih1g/Cloud%27s%20Food%20Journal%20Outline.docxI thawed out one soup cube and put it on a plate last night. Cloud would sniff it and then run the other direction, lol. I tried using a spoon to put some on the front of his mouth but he would make a fuss and run away gagging. I will try again today but I will thin it out with water like you said.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 16, 2014 9:13:41 GMT -5
Aw shoot... He's gonna make us work for it, huh? OK, so thin it out and just repeatedly dab it on his nose while he's playing. Every few minutes grab & dab. Does he like any kind of oil? If he does, you can put a drop of oil on top of the soup to see if he'll lick that up and maybe get him started. I think I read that you give him Ferretone and Ferrevite? Toss the Ferrevite.. It's basically insulinoma in a tube, full of sugars and carbs. The 'tone is not the healthiest stuff either, but instead of just ditching it, try to start cutting it with a healthier oil. Many ferrants use Grizzly Salmon oil.. My kids don't like fish oil though, so I just use EVOO. Start by adding just a little to the bottle of Tone, then in a few days add a little more, then again, until eventually you'll be using straight EVOO, or whatever you choose. The key is to do it gradually so he doesn't realize you've changed anything. Same principle with the food.. Once he starts eating the soup, we'll start changing things a little at a time until he's got a good healthy diet.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 16, 2014 9:18:56 GMT -5
My home internet is having issues so I can't access your food journal right now. I'll check it when I get a good connection, but I'm sure it will be fine. Go ahead and put in what you gave him last night and his reaction, so you'll have a record of it... Just something like "tried thick soup, drama queen", lol.
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