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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 13:05:28 GMT -5
What I wanted to ask is as this rabbit only contains the liver and kidney can I put a chicken heart inside it lol! ?
You could def do that. The main thing with mixing proteins is the possibility of an allergy. If let's say, someone is allergic to chicken (and you didn't know!), they may eat this rabbit/chicken mix and we will not diffidently know WHAT caused the allergy. To figure it out you would have to do a food trial to find the allergy. HOWEVER, since no one has every had any possible allergies to anything currently, in this situation it is not that big of a deal. We mostly just want raw feeders to avoid cutting up a bunch of random proteins and mixing them all together and feeding it. This also makes it harder to regulate WHAT everyone is getting. When you feed a Frenkenpray diet you feed (for the most part) ONE thing for each meal. So if you have someone that likes a certain thing he isn't gobbling it up before anything else gets a chance to get at it. And not to say WP isn't a GREAT feeding model, but there is going to be some of this also. But the fact smaller animals like mice and rats are being fed to the individuals, they are going to get some of what they need to thrive. It's all a balancing game and luckily with WP and even mince to an extent it will likely all balance out in the end.
Ollie ate a little piece of pigeon today, he's not as keen as he is with the rabbit but at least he tried some. I posted on the holistic Facebook page asking about Ollie re dragging kit, and one person decided to lecture me on how old kits should be before they leave mum, saying 8 weeks is far to young. In the uk this is the age they tend to leave mum and all mine have been just fine.
I read all that yesterday. I am glad Heather stepped in there and defended it. I mean, it is too late now no matter what. I really like the quote I have in my signature: "I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better." I think that applies to us newbies to the raw feeding and even ferrets in general because we are HERE, we are LEARNING, and TRYING to give our kids a better life and health. For someone to bash you for asking for help isn't cool. Honestly, I don't really go on the FB very often and it is because of the negativity. The forum is so positive and wonderful. Poor chad, he prob picks on him because he just allows it. It is too funny how he goes back for more though, he REALLY wants Ollie to be his friend! hahah
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 15:00:58 GMT -5
What I do with the big whole prey is I chop it all up and mix it together so there is more chance they all get some liver, heart etc, plus they get the heart only meal too. I have put a whole quail in for Oscar, I put it in the stash box, for some reason he has taken it out and stashed it behind the box, he's weird lol! Will see if any is gone in the AM. Ollie ate two small bits of the quail meat, I put a little in a bowl for him , hopefully he will get the taste and realise the whole quail is the same thing and eat some overnight. He is more up for trying new things now he will happily eat rabbit now and rabbit liver he loves it Yes I did feel a little bit annoyed with the comment from whoever it was because I was asking for advice about how to introduce them, her comment wasn't really helpful. Here in the UK if you wait for a kit to be 12 weeks, you won't get one because they will all be sold at 8 weeks. All mine have been this age when I have got them and they have lived happy lives with no problems whatsoever. The kits both like liver, heart, etc so I'm sure they both get some of what they need. They had 2 chicks each today. I'm hoping when the kits are bigger Ollie will accept them better, only time will tell lol!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 15:07:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 16:42:57 GMT -5
I am so happy the kits, new mama and of course oscar are doing so well. I think it has raised your spirits about Ollie. And the. Of course his new willingness to please! It will be interesting to see if he reverts again. Since he is doing so well are you still wanting to wait to take out the kibble? Just curious
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 16:43:36 GMT -5
She is so sweet! I can see your attraction. I hope she continues to get well so she can join her brothers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 18:06:49 GMT -5
I'm not worried about removing the kibble again, what I am seeing is that he himself chose rabbit over the kibble the other day and this was the first time he has been offered rabbit, he was munching rabbit in the night and the kibble was still in there, he also decided to eat two small bits of quail tonight by himself again first time he's ever been offered quail, the kibble was still there on both these occasions. I think with the things he likes he will eat if he doesn't like it and there's no kibble he will just miss a meal or two, this is where I may become stuck with him.
BUT he hasn't ever been so keen to try new meats as he has been recently, this is something I haven't seen in him before. I had to force him before and sit there for hours, now I just put in a new meat and walk away and watch, he will go himself and have a look then look for me, when he thinks Iv gone and he's not getting out he then goes back and try's the new meat, he never did this before when he didn't have kibble as a option at the moment he does have the kibble as a opinion but has been more interested and wiling to try the new foods by himself.
So I'm not sure if to remove kibble yet or not, what do you think ? If I was to remove it I would remove at nights to start with when they eat more, I just don't want him to become unwell and wobbly from lack of food again, otherwise raw feeding just becomes a dangerous option over kibble, rather than a healthy one in this case. So I need to be very careful with him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 18:09:43 GMT -5
Yes, maybe try removing it at nights again. Maybe too try doing it at different and odd hours. Maybe he is freaking out at the idea of it being gone. Next time you are home all day, try taking it away all day (that way you can still keep eye) and when you put it back see if he attacks it like a hungry badger??? Maybe the kits changed his mind.... who knows!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 9:53:53 GMT -5
Ok I will try that Oscar didn't touch the quail, so I guess I need to chop it up for him to start with. If I chop up the bigger whole prey and mix it all then it's more likely that the kits will both end up getting some heart, liver each isn't it ? Also with the rabbit from the butcher, it doesn't have a head or feet ( it has legs ) well I can get rabbit heads of line, would it be worth adding heads to the rabbit or does it not really matter ? i can get whole rabbits offline fur and all, it's works out same price as butchers the only thing I'm finding hard is removing the intestines, I'm worried that I may be removing some organ as well, there is a video on here how to gut whole prey but it's shown on a mouse so it doesn't help really lol! Also I would most likely have to skin it as Ollie loves the butcher rabbits but not sure he would like a furry one, but I suppose I could try him. What rabbit would you go for if it were you ? Lol! The other thing is at the moment 1 whole rabbit feeds the kits for 3 meals as there really big rabbits, is this ok spreading the rabbit out through the week ? It works out that they have had half a rabbit each at end of week. Also at the moment they also have 1 quail between them as 1 each is to much, and 1 pigeon between them this is still ok isn't it ? They won't eat 1 each yet, it's to much, but they get a few quail and pigeons through the week so by the end they have kind of eaten 1-2 each of these and half a whole rabbit each a week by the end of the week. Plus mice/ hamster each. Is this all ok ? Oh what's best large mice or ex breeder mice do you know ? Ollie and Oscar were squabbling over a hamster today, there one each lol! But this is good isn't it ? Ollie wouldn't let Oscar have it and he ran off and hid it, he doesn't eat them yet but I haven't seen him do this before. I think the kits have turned Ollie into a crazy ferrets, he's manic lol! He he still over the top with them they don't meet together but he goes up to there cage and does try sometimes to bite there toes through the wire :-(
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 15:10:09 GMT -5
I have removed kibble tonight, they have rabbit and some liver, heart from the rabbit, Ollie has eaten some so will see how it goes
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 17:00:11 GMT -5
What vinegar is it you use to clean ferrets out is it white vinegar or the the normal malt vinegar ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 22:08:46 GMT -5
Ok I will try that Oscar didn't touch the quail, so I guess I need to chop it up for him to start with. If I chop up the bigger whole prey and mix it all then it's more likely that the kits will both end up getting some heart, liver each isn't it ? It is hopeful yeah that they will get some. It's hard to know for sure, but they will work it out in the end. Also with the rabbit from the butcher, it doesn't have a head or feet ( it has legs ) well I can get rabbit heads of line, would it be worth adding heads to the rabbit or does it not really matter ?It might be, but not a huge deal. That they would be missing is some bone, that I don't know how much of it they would eat in the end. And the brain, which is good too. i can get whole rabbits offline fur and all, it's works out same price as butchers the only thing I'm finding hard is removing the intestines, I'm worried that I may be removing some organ as well, there is a video on here how to gut whole prey but it's shown on a mouse so it doesn't help really lolYeah I bet that is gross! I would say just leave it, but I think one of the reasons they remove it is cause some won't eat the animal as well because the inwards stink. Also I would most likely have to skin it as Ollie loves the butcher rabbits but not sure he would like a furry one, but I suppose I could try him. What rabbit would you go for if it were you?Prob the skinned ones. Seems like much less work.... The other thing is at the moment 1 whole rabbit feeds the kits for 3 meals as there really big rabbits, is this ok spreading the rabbit out through the week ? It works out that they have had half a rabbit each at end of week.Yes that is fine. Because your spreading it out their getting a little bit through out. Also at the moment they also have 1 quail between them as 1 each is to much, and 1 pigeon between them this is still ok isn't it ? They won't eat 1 each yet, it's to much, but they get a few quail and pigeons through the week so by the end they have kind of eaten 1-2 each of these and half a whole rabbit each a week by the end of the week. Plus mice/ hamster each.Yes that is fine. Unless you suspect an allergy a little bit of mixing is ok. It's when they get sick that you have to figure out to what and the least amount of proteins to rule out the better. Oh what's best large mice or ex breeder mice do you know? I don't know that it would matter if they were an old breeder or not. As long as the animal is healthy, it is passing on healthy nutrients. Someone asked one time if they could feed mice that had tumors and many of the mentors were against it. It's not a healthy animal. Ollie and Oscar were squabbling over a hamster today, there one each lol! But this is good isn't it ? Ollie wouldn't let Oscar have it and he ran off and hid it, he doesn't eat them yet but I haven't seen him do this before. I think the kits have turned Ollie into a crazy ferrets, he's manic lol! That is really good! If he feels it's worth fighting over than it must be a treat! I'm glad he finally stuck up for himself and took the prize! He he still over the top with them they don't meet together but he goes up to there cage and does try sometimes to bite there toes through the wire :-(What a silly boy. He must really want those kits. He just wants to show them who's boss.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2014 22:11:49 GMT -5
I'm glad you are removing kibble again. Slowly but surely with Ollie. He seems to have had a change of heart though. Good boy.
And it is just plain white vinegar I use. I do dilute it a bit. About 1:4 with water. I also let things dry out a bit before I out it back with ferts cause if not they sneeze like crazy lol I don't know that it hurts them but they don't like it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 6:55:27 GMT -5
Ok there has been no kibble in since I said I removed it because it's been the rabbit and this lasted 3 meals, this morning I was going to put kibble in but I thought I would just try him with the whole chicken heart meal, and he ate the hearts!!! (dance) (dance) (dance) Tonight it's the bone meal duck wings he likes this so no kibble tonight either, just be a case of in the AM if he won't eat pigeon so will see how it goes. He is doing so much better than last time, eating whole hearts by himself just like that without me helping or anything is brilliant! I'm not mixing proteins, they have rabbit, quail, etc through the week, just not a quail or pigeon each as it's to big at the moment, so they share them. Rabbit lasts them 3 meals so I feed rabbit 3 days in a row, then go on to the next WP and so on. I'm following this menu mo am hamster or other small prey Pm. Rabbit ( shared ) lasts 3 meals through week so takes them to Tuesday PM so they don't get the Tuesday am or pm meal, they get this later in week. tues am pigeon ( rabbit at the moment until eating whole one in one meal ) Pm quail ( same as above ) we'd am mouse or other small prey each Pm quail thurs.am beef meat or any other meat Pm quail fri. Am. Hamster or other small prey Pm. Pigeon sat. Am Chicks PM. Quail sun. Am heart Pm duck wing/chicken neck/ turkey necks all the above menu is good isn't it ? There weights Chad 2.4lbs Casper 2.1lbs Ollie 2.12lbs Oscar 3.0lbs ( he has lost a little ) Milly 1.8 lbs ( mum named her lol! ) she's put on 3oz (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 23:41:45 GMT -5
The menu looks really good. What lucky ferrets you have! And I am so happy Ollie is eating the hearts on his own so well. I am guessing everyone else also enjoyed the heart meal?
Their weights look good. The kits (the C's) are going to be as big as the O's soon! Maybe then Ollie won't drag poor chad lol. And I love the name Millie. So happy she's gaining too. Everyone is just doing so well. We might have to talk about graduating you soon! Let's see how Ollie does the next few days, if he reverts back to kibble wanting or not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2014 3:45:48 GMT -5
Thank you yes everyone ate the hearts last night all had duck wings, all gone this AM older run and kits. Pigeon this AM and Ollie is currently munching on some (dance) Yes that's what I am hoping with Ollie and kits, I am going to give the kits another week or so until there big as Ollie then try them hopefully all will work out. Yes I'm so pleased with Millie she has done really well she feels much better to hold you can feel the weight now, she feels so much better, she had a play in garden yesterday she went crazy in the piping! Lol maybe she is younger than what I thought
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