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Post by Heather on Jun 7, 2014 22:58:46 GMT -5
Name: katy HF Forum Username: ktjake
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
From this site
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I would like to feed them a partial raw diet of bone in minces, they are already eating bone in minces one meal a day which contain offal but I would like some help in choosing and planning there meals and making sure it is balanced.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
i want them to be healthy, and have already seen a improvement in there coats and energy, I would switch to full raw once I am confident on the partial raw and have them eating everything they need first.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
yes, I have already started they are eating bone in minces but I want to make sure there getting a correct balance diet and everything they need
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
2 male ferrets, both will be 1 year old on the 9th June. Ones called Ollie I have had him since he was a kit. The other is called Oscar I have had him since January he was from a rescue centre. Ollie weighs 2.12lbs. Oscar weighs 3.30lbs. No know health problems with either ferrets.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup?
They have kibble down all day ( its revolution kibble from Germany ) I remove kibble at 6pm then at 10pm they both get a meal of bone in mince. They also have freeze dried raw treats everyday also from Germany ( frettchen 4 you website )
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
no
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
most days and all evenings
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Pictures below, could post them here
11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc?
I have scales, I am currently getting there meats from a website called raw to go, but would like some help to choose products to make up a balanced weekly menu.
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (AbbyLee22) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun :thumbsup: . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 11:07:06 GMT -5
Glad to have you as a new student Katy! Your my first switch as a mentor, but with the help of our senior mentors, we will get your lil ones switched over to a healthier lifestyle. Here's my bio and some stuff about me :0) Name: Abigail HF Screen Name: AbbyLee22 Facebook: Abigail Lee Cunningham Location: Los Lunas, New Mexico About Me: I'm 28 years old full time Allergy Tech, wife and mommy! My husband and I have been married 7 years now and have three beautiful babies. Donovan Kain (7), Dylan Wayne (4) and Madilyn Rose (2). Currently we also have a chocolate lab (Molly-Mae), Boxer (Bruno), the ferrets (explained below) and a Leopard Tortoise (Jesse). I have grown up having animals my whole life. From incubating chickens to showing dogs, leopard gekos to guinea pigs, I have always been involved with furry, scaled or shelled critters. I have had ferrets off and on for about 7 years, but only recently discovered the benefits of raw. I look forward to helping forum as a mentor and spread the knowledge! My favorite color is..... Emerald GREEN! My favorite food is.... Bananas My favorite holiday is.... Christmas My favorite hobby is... Reading, crochet I like to listen to... Mostly anything really, just not too 'ghetto' lol I collect... Nail polish, at least my husband would say I do Something about me you might be surprised to know... I have a twin sister, I might be a little OCD at times, I am pretty shy in 'real life', I showed dogs for most of my childhood I became a mentor because... Like most have said before me, I truly believe that this is the diet that will help keep our beloved furr-kids healthier and with us just that much longer. I also love teaching and sharing knowledge. About My Ferrets: Pepe 'le Pew: Born ~January 2014; Marked DEW; My heart ferret (I know we shouldn't pick favorites, but I have to say he's mine....) He is my special Waardy boy and gentle giant. He can be seen galooping around chasing his super fast sister and when he finally catches up, lays on her! Pepe knows when mommy has had a bad day and gives the best kisses. He is often content to just lay on his back in my arms. Oliver: Born ~February 2014; Chocolate Sable; Oliver is my sly guy. He is so carefree and aloof, but still cunning and smart. Oli is also a sweaty, but not into kisses and cuddles for too long. He and his sister Ruby are on the road to being bonded, they tend to get into trouble together. He also enjoys harassing Bruno the boxer. (sniff) Ruby: Born ~March 2014; Black Sable; Rubes is my tiny huntress. She is very much the boss of the boys (unless Pepe is laying on her) and the most vocal of my 3. She is also not big on the cuddles, but mostly because she is too busy patrolling her grounds and nipping at my husband's toes. She does however give a rare kiss or two if your hugs are quick. I have had 5 other ferrets over the last 8 or so years that are my reason for doing the research, chancing upon and getting involved with this group. Seeing what an unhealthy diet can do is truly devastating. About My Natural Feeding Experience: As of right now, I have feed raw since March of 2014. I am still learning and growing my knowledge everyday. I am the type that when I get involved with something I jump in 1000% and have been able to take in a lot from this forum. Type of Mentor: Currently I know the most about our good 'ol frankenprey diet. I am in the process of introducing whole prey and feeding live mice to my guys. The couple things I am inexperienced with are FDR and the commercial grinds and partial switches. But I will gladly read up and research new things that may come up!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 20:12:29 GMT -5
I have been trying to read through your DYI switch and I hope I can help and that you still want to switch completely. Here is a good link I had bookmarked myself about going from grinds to frankenpray, if that is what you want to do. If not, disregard holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=39&action=display&thread=14070To start, if you can just review with me exactly what you are feeding your guys. I read through your application, but I know they can be outdated sometimes depending on how long you were on the waiting list. Are they still eating kibble? If so how often throughout the day and about how much? I see you are feeding mince, what protein (or animal), how often, about how much are they eating, do you order it online? As much detail as you can is helpful. Lastly, what meats do you have access to? In your application you mentioned that you wanted to feed mince but move to a more balanced diet, do you want to move towards a frankenpray diet? Lemme know if you need more info on the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2014 22:57:18 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 12:54:10 GMT -5
Hello Abigail :-)
I am feeding them one meal in the evenings at 10pm of ground mince, they have beef, lamb,chicken, turkey all the minces contain bone, meat and offal a ratio of 80/10/10. They have kibble down all day at the moment and I would like to continue with the kibble for the time being. They used to eat chicken wings but both stopped, I would like to get them eating these twice a week.
They have a chick now and then and mice, one won't eat these though!
I order all my meat from raw to go online
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 13:03:30 GMT -5
I don't actually weigh out the meals I just fill two small bowls. Most morning it's all gone, on occasions they have just stashed it but this on the odd occasion .
I'm presuming the meals are balanced with a ratio off 80/10/10 meat, bone, offal ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 14:23:17 GMT -5
I am feeding them one meal in the evenings at 10pm of ground mince, they have beef, lamb,chicken, turkey all the minces contain bone, meat and offal a ratio of 80/10/10.
That is a decent mixture of proteins, that is good. Sometimes getting them to eat different things is a challenge, but it sounds like we are okay there. Is this all the variety they have, or just what you prefer? Is one meal a day all you can do/have time for/afford? They have kibble down all day at the moment and I would like to continue with the kibble for the time being.
What are your thoughts with removing the kibble? Would you like to work towards going full raw? They used to eat chicken wings but both stopped, I would like to get them eating these twice a week.
We can certainly work on that! Since they are used to the ground, they probably just don't have the muscle strength needed to really crunch on the chicken bone yet. Ferrets are lazy things, bless their hearts, and will hold out for the easier meal. I find the best way to get them used to eating bones is to just work up from it. Since they are eating the groud the best, lets start by smashing up the bone as well as you can (a meat tenderizor works well for this, but a hammer or other blunt object works well too). Just cover it with a towel you don't mind getting bloody and possibly holey with the banging, and smash it up as well as you can. For the beginning you can cut it into smaller pieces until they start eating it better than just increase the size and start smashing it less and less. I am going to steal another mentors pic, it shows how small is best to start...
It can of course be any kind of cut of the chicken. Also, if you have access to them, Cornish game hens (CGH), quail, or some other small poultry are also a good starting bone because they are so tiny. We definetly want them eating some bones though, keep those teeth healthy. Another good way to help with teeth cleaning is gizzards, I am not sure if you have access to them or not? They have a chick now and then and mice, one won't eat these though!
Is this recent (like the fact they are not eating the chicken wings as well....) or do they just not like the taste? I have learned that sometimes when first introducing these kind of treats/meals you have to cut open the belly or pour some kind of soupy on them. Sometimes they just don't know their food! Let me know what EXACTLY is the issue and we can tackle it! I order all my meat from raw to go online
If I remember correctly, you live in a kind of rural area and don't have a lot of access to meats. Is this correct? Sorry for the thousand questions, just trying to get my baring with what we can do!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 14:32:01 GMT -5
I don't actually weigh out the meals I just fill two small bowls. Most morning it's all gone, on occasions they have just stashed it but this on the odd occasion .
That is prob fine for now, I am just the type to weigh everything but I know a lot of others that can just eyeball it. If/When it comes to removing kibbles and all we might want to have a better idea of how much they are eating, but we will deal with that when it comes. Also, as a general rule, we like to see just a LITTLE bit of extra after each meal, in your case, the next morning. We want them to be able to eat their fill. Again, since you are still kibble feeding we wont worry about this now, but something to think about. Speaking of, are you removing the kibble at night when they have their commercial ground (CG) meals? If so how long before?
I'm presuming the meals are balanced with a ratio off 80/10/10 meat, bone, offal ?
I want to 'presume' as well, from what I have read. However, I am asking some senior mentors to confirm this, just in case.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 17:17:48 GMT -5
They both used to have chicken wings twice a week along with the kibble this is where I started originally they both used to eat a whole wing each and got really excited when I threw them in, after a few months they just stopped eating them completely and would just stash them, so basically I was buying them and throwing them away the next morning, this is when I decided to try ground bone in minces, they both have been eating this for a good few months. I will get some chicken wings next week and smash them up as you have suggested and see how they go, hopefully they will start eating them again, I'm just not sure why they stopped.
I think I might be able to get gizzards so will look into this. I can get quail, pheasant but not until there in season.
I have been given them mice and chicks for some time now one still eats them, but the other used to eat them but now he just Shakes the chick and excitedly stashes it lol! He is the one I would be worried about most of all with removing kibble because he starts eating the meats but after a while tends to stop. He was also much harder to get onto meats even though I had him from a kit and fed him meats then.The other one is much more into his meats and has been from day one I got him at 8 months old.
They are on one meal a day at the moment partly due to the cost but manly my freezer space lol I would like them to have more variety but wasn't sure whether this would mess up the balance meals of the minces, I would like them to continue with the minces as it's easier for me to access and store and hopefully has all they need to be healthy. However If I can add to the minces without messing up the balance then I would like to as you say cleans there teeth plus also gives them mental simulation which they don't get on mince alone
I would like to always have kibble down for a least another year as I would be concerned that if I removed it that there is the chance they would again decided to stop eating the meat again, once I am fully confident that I have them on a well balanced diet and I can always get the meats required and have got into a routine and they both continue to eat the meat then at this point I would consider going full raw.
I used to get my meats from woldsway online but they have shut down which is why I am now using raw to go. Where I live its difficult to get the meats in so I rely on being able to purchase online. This is another reason why I don't want to remove kibble just yet and then find I can no longer get the meats and panic to find another supplier.
I remove there kibble at 6pm then I feed them there meat at 10pm and I put the kibble back in at 10pm because I felt that after the mince they prob wouldn't eat any kibble until after 4 hours ?
:-)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 17:21:38 GMT -5
They also have 100% freeze dried raw turkey treats through the day, I feed these at the times when I call them back to get into there run after playtime in the garden :-)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 8:26:32 GMT -5
I just wanted to let you know I am on a road trip this weekend for a family reunion. I will take time tonight and wrote back. I just wanted to let you know I didn't forget about you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 11:01:14 GMT -5
Ok thank you
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 13:49:43 GMT -5
So sorry about the long wait there, this weekend turned into a mess! I am writing back to all your posts now...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 13:59:25 GMT -5
They both used to have chicken wings twice a week along with the kibble this is where I started originally they both used to eat a whole wing each and got really excited when I threw them in, after a few months they just stopped eating them completely and would just stash them, so basically I was buying them and throwing them away the next morning, this is when I decided to try ground bone in minces, they both have been eating this for a good few months. I will get some chicken wings next week and smash them up as you have suggested and see how they go, hopefully they will start eating them again, I'm just not sure why they stopped.
I think the issue with the chicken wings again goes back to what I was saying about them being lazy, haha! And this is all ferrets, not just your boys! They are stashing the chicken wings because they are waiting for the kibble that is far easier to eat than tearing into a chicken wing. Although, at first it was new and interesting and kind of like an enrichment for them. That would be my best guess. So, hopefully breaking it up to make it 'easier' for a little while will help with this. We want them eating as much BI as we can to avoid teeth issues. (will talk more about this later...)
I think I might be able to get gizzards so will look into this. I can get quail, pheasant but not until there in season.
Even though you can not get the quail and pheasant until they are in season, they would be a good addition to have another poultry protein. Sometimes they can develop allergies and if this happens with the chicken then we will have a problem. So we want them eating other proteins that might taste different. Are you familiar with how to introduce a new protein? If, that is, it's even an issue. Did they take to the grinds ok? Or did you have issues with them not eating the different proteins?
I have been given them mice and chicks for some time now one still eats them, but the other used to eat them but now he just Shakes the chick and excitedly stashes it lol!
This could go back to the kibble being an easier meal thing, but also whole can be left for much longer. The larger the pieces of meat, the longer it can be safely left out. Ground meats and soups generally are fine for 8 hours, larger chunks for 12-24, whole prey can be left for 48 as the skin also provides protection. So maybe try leaving it longer. The risk we run there is getting stolen by his brother. Also, adult mice are considered a good nutritious meal, but chicks however are more of a treat. They are not nutritious enough to be considered a meal. Now, that said, it is a great occasional treat and I am not discouraging it, just keep in mind they are not getting very much nutrients from them, so not too often.
He is the one I would be worried about most of all with removing kibble because he starts eating the meats but after a while tends to stop. He was also much harder to get onto meats even though I had him from a kit and fed him meats then.The other one is much more into his meats and has been from day one I got him at 8 months old.
Your boys are young though, so they have a very low chance of having health issues from not eating for a few hours. I really feel like you can remove the kibble and not have any issues, especially since they are both eating raw of some sort (ie ground, whole, chicken legs). I know you worry about (not sure which one... Ollie or Oscar?) and I want you to do what you are comfortable with, but it would make it easier in the long run to just feed one thing to both boys.
They are on one meal a day at the moment partly due to the cost but manly my freezer space lol I would like them to have more variety but wasn't sure whether this would mess up the balance meals of the minces, I would like them to continue with the minces as it's easier for me to access and store and hopefully has all they need to be healthy. However If I can add to the minces without messing up the balance then I would like to as you say cleans there teeth plus also gives them mental simulation which they don't get on mince alone
Freezer space does make a difference unfortunately in getting things in bulk at a good price. Is this something you are going to look into in the future? It's not a requirement, but makes life a whole lot easier! The great thing about the minces is that it is essentially a balance meal, as if they are catching a live mouse/bird in the wild, as far as balance. The only difference is you may need to add some kind of bone supplement to adjust to more runny poops. You can use both egg shell or bone meal to repair loose stools due to switching. I was told that sometimes the ferret does need a higher bone, because many commercial grinds are geared to cats and cats get very constipated on the amount of bone a ferret eats. So you may want to look into having that handy for a day to day supplement. On the days they are getting whole mice or chicks or chicken wings, it should not be so much an issue. Also, another thing that was brought up is, what is the taurine level in the grinds that your feeding? Sometimes that can be lacking and we may need to look into a supplement.
I would like to always have kibble down for a least another year as I would be concerned that if I removed it that there is the chance they would again decided to stop eating the meat again, once I am fully confident that I have them on a well balanced diet and I can always get the meats required and have got into a routine and they both continue to eat the meat then at this point I would consider going full raw.
As I stated above, I think your boys would be ok without it, however do what you think is right. Keep in mind it takes months to see any kind of dangerous deficiencies, so if we are working on getting them to eat one thing and skip on another for a few days or a week, it isn't the end of the world. We just want to, in the long run, make it as balanced as possible. I think with your grind, balance isn't an issue. And I am pretty confident that if there wasn't the hope of having kibble given back later in the day, that they would not stop eating the raw at any point. Kibble is easy, so they will go for it and even wait. Maybe once you get confident with the raw we can run a test and remove kibble for a week or so. But I am not here to push, just guide :0)
I used to get my meats from woldsway online but they have shut down which is why I am now using raw to go. Where I live its difficult to get the meats in so I rely on being able to purchase online. This is another reason why I don't want to remove kibble just yet and then find I can no longer get the meats and panic to find another supplier.
This is understandable. Having a couple good sources of meat is important. What part of UK are you in exactly and I will research other online sources that way we know you have a few to choose from.
I remove there kibble at 6pm then I feed them there meat at 10pm and I put the kibble back in at 10pm because I felt that after the mince they prob wouldn't eat any kibble until after 4 hours ?
You are removing it correctly, about 4 hours before meal, but really you should wait to give back the kibble for a few hours also. The reason for this is raw digests faster than kibble and if there is kibble in their stomach it will slow down the raw and can allow bacteria to colonize. At the normal digestion rate this doesn't happen. So if you are feeding raw at about 10 pm, you are ok to leave kibble out until morning, over 8 hours after. The grinds are technically good for 12 hours, so if they are eating at 10 when you put the grinds in (and that it is a full meal, ie enough for them to eat in a 12 hours period) then you should not be putting the kibble back in until well after 10 the next day. This is where having two different kind of feed gets tricky.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 14:49:43 GMT -5
They also have 100% freeze dried raw turkey treats through the day, I feed these at the times when I call them back to get into there run after playtime in the garden :-)
These should be fine as long as there are no added sodium or anything. Doesn't sound like it, but just making sure :0)
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