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Post by gfountain on Jun 5, 2014 17:24:41 GMT -5
Just kidding, Sam! The dry poos are from too much bone, so you can cut back on the bone & give more muscle meat if they get dry again. With the organs, we definitely have to get him to whole meals of just organ if you're getting another baby. With an only ferret, you can mix a little into every meal and get them to eat it that way. But with multiple ferrets, you can't be sure that one isn't hogging all the organs and the others eating only muscle or bone or whatever. So yeah, be mixing those organs, but keep in mind that you're working toward a whole organ meal. Have you tried the mouse again? He ate the mouse last time, didn't he? If he's not wanting the quail just yet, try him with some more mouse. He's got to get another protein in. Deficiencies don't show up for a while, but I'd rather not take any chances. How big are his chunks now.. meat and bone? When you say "all of his fur", you are exaggerating, I hope? He's not balding is he
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 17:57:48 GMT -5
Our GOAL is to have him eating whole prey by the time the little one arrives... Like you've said, we'll see how HE feels about that... By the way, we *sorta* picked a name! We're thinking Laney for her... we will see what her face looks like and if the name fits once she gets bigger and we actually bring her home! We haven't tried mouse again. We'll do that once my crazy weekend ends, but for now he'll have the quail. If he doesn't like it, he'll be getting mouse again instead. He's eating big chunks of bone. About the size of the first digit of my pinky. He seems to like chewing them. The chunks of meat are about the size of my whole pinky, but we'll be graduating him up to ring-finger sizes and a little bigger next week... already got some of the meat cut for it... And NO he's not balding... I am just shocked at how much fur he IS losing... good grief.
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Post by gfountain on Jun 5, 2014 18:47:48 GMT -5
WOW! Big chunks of bone. I didn't realize he was up to that size already. Why don't you try leaving a chicken wing TIP with him. And if he's eating that size, he's surely ready for that mouse now! I like Laney When will she be ready to come home?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 20:55:30 GMT -5
We don't have tips... out of all the wings we got... very weird... we DO have CGH tips, so I'll try him on one of those but it'll have to be after I get back on Monday. >_< We'll try the mouse with him too, around that time... hopefully it will stop being so hectic... I got home today and he DESTROYED the carpet in our spare room... in our new house... he must have dug at it for hours and hours and tore every thread of carpet OFF until he reached the floorboards. There's a hole the size of my fist... I am SOOO upset with him, I put him back in his cage, left him his food, and told him goodnight... omg... Anyway.... *sigh* .... wing tips and mice next Monday... right...
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Post by gfountain on Jun 5, 2014 21:11:50 GMT -5
OH NO! The new house? I didn't realize you had already moved in. Congrats.. no wonder your life is hectic! And now the carpet... Did you JUST move? Did he dig by the door you enter & leave from? If so, he may have been nervous being alone in a new place. If not, he's just being a brat and unfortunately there's not much you can do about a digger except put something over the carpet.
CGH tips = baby chicken tips, so that's good. If you got 'wingettes', they have the tip section removed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 21:52:41 GMT -5
We moved about 2 months ago. He's definitely not worried about being in a new place... just being a brat. We're back to being in the cage unless supervised now, that's for sure... at least until we can get hardwood floors.
Yep they were wingettes, probably why the tip was removed. I promise we will start on the cgh tips and get it all back together soon. Lol.
Oh, and you asked about Laney! She'll be coming near the end of August.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 16:59:03 GMT -5
Spreadsheet is updated as of today... Now I leave for my insane weekend...
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Post by gfountain on Jun 6, 2014 19:55:44 GMT -5
He really doesn't like those organs, does he?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 10:08:57 GMT -5
I kinda got onto Sam about updating the spreadsheet this morning. Should be done now. (disapprove)
He says Ezra's eating his quail without any problem. We've also watched him eat big pieces of meat and bone (about 2in x 2in chunks, with a piece of chicken wing bone 2in long, not pulvarized. We'll keep increasing these. With the chicken wing, I feel he's ready to be offered a whole wingette that's been hit with a hammer in a few places.
Our main focus is getting his three proteins covered right now. He doesn't seem to like the beef kidney at all, but since that's the only non-liver organ we can find, it'll have to do. The chicken liver, he eats, if it's not mixed with the beef kidney. I'm going to start offering ONLY the chicken liver for 1 meal, and putting little tiny chunks of the beef kidney in whatever else he eats, to get a taste of it in his system and make sure he is actually eating some of it, since he won't take a full meal of it just yet.
Since he doesn't like the beef, we're also going to try getting adult mice into his diet... you suggested this, but we haven't done it yet. I felt like getting the proteins evened out with beef was important but since he's not liking that, we'll try it in little chunks, with the mice to supplement an additional protein and some organs.
So here's the menu I'm thinking we'll do. I'm starting with today (Sunday) since Sam has him until I get back tonight.
SUN AM: chicken / quail bone-in SUN PM: adult mouse
MON AM: chicken hearts MON PM: quail bone-in w/ beef kidney chunks
TUE AM: 50:50 beef kidney / quail bone-in TUE PM: 50:50 beef kidney / quail bone-in
WED AM: chicken gizzards (he seems to like these) WED PM: adult mouse
THU AM: 50:50 chicken hearts / chicken liver THU PM: 50:50 beef kidney / quail bone-in
FRI AM: quail bone-in FRI PM: chicken bone-in
SAT AM: chicken gizzards SAT PM: chicken bone-in
How's that look? Of course I'll monitor what he's eating, and if the kidney chunks are getting left behind, he'll probably get soup with them mixed in for a couple of days, so he can't pick 'em out. I think using the adult mouse should get him some extra organ/heart in his diet, in case he's not eating enough kidney or liver. He still loves the hearts.
Oh, and one more question for you! His poops have been hard and dry, which I know means he's getting too much bone. How do we rectify this? Should we start mixing his bone-in meals half and half with muscle meat? Or is there a trick to this that I don't know?
Btw... internet at home is a no-go for now. *sigh* We're fighting with the internet company. Hopefully it'll be soon. I'll be back with Ezzy tonight and I'll still have my phone.
Thank you!
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Post by gfountain on Jun 8, 2014 17:51:20 GMT -5
putting little tiny chunks of the beef kidney in whatever else he eats, to get a taste of it in his system...going to try getting adult mice into his diet THIS. YES, do this. This is the way we get them to eat things they don't want to eat. :thumbsup:
getting the proteins evened out with beef was important Not terribly important RIGHT NOW. During the switch, pretty much whatever they'll eat is what they get most of. The other proteins get introduced gradually (see comment above^^)
Now when he starts eating whole mice, that will adjust the menu requirements slightly. The requirement for balancing a diet is 10% organ and 10% heart. Because a mouse IS a completely balanced, it replaces a little of each necessary part so your frankenprey part will need to be adjusted accordingly.
As an example, let's say Ezra eats whole mice 4 days a week. That's 4 of his total 14 meals. That leaves 10 meals of frankenprey to balance. 10% of 10 meals is 1, so he would need only 1 meal each of heart and organ instead of 1 and a half. Make sense? The bone meals would be adjusted depending on his poos, more if they're soft, less if they're hard.
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Post by gfountain on Jun 8, 2014 18:00:10 GMT -5
TUE AM: 50:50 beef kidney / quail bone-in Don't be too rigid with this 50/50. You may need to start slower with the kidney. AND since he's going to start eating whole mice WITH THEIR ORGANS, you're meeting his 2 organ requirement without the beef kidney.
WED PM: adult mouse Chopped up still? Or whole?
THU PM: 50:50 beef kidney / quail bone-in Again, the kidney...
You only have one half liver meal. With only 2 mice (assuming that he eats them completely), you still need 1.2 organ meals, and you only have .5 plus whatever of the kidney he eats. Another half meal of liver would be better.
Oh, and one more question for you! His poops have been hard and dry, which I know means he's getting too much bone. How do we rectify this? Should we start mixing his bone-in meals half and half with muscle meat? Or is there a trick to this that I don't know? Less bone. Either substitute some of his bone-in meals with just muscle meat or, as you said, mix his bones with muscle.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 18:50:39 GMT -5
Don't be too rigid with this 50/50. You may need to start slower with the kidney.
Yes ma'am, that's the plan. Sorry I didn't mention that.
AND since he's going to start eating whole mice WITH THEIR ORGANS, you're meeting his 2 organ requirement without the beef kidney.
Whoa, does this mean that IF he eats the mouse, beef kidney isn't required at all? That'd be ideal, I guess we'll see how it goes with the mouse tonight.
WED PM: adult mouse Chopped up still? Or whole?
Cutting a few slits into a mouse and mushing the head up (braiiinnnns) for him tonight, but leaving it mostly intact. We'll see what he thinks. If it's a no-go, we'll chop the next one up.
You only have one half liver meal.
Oops! Sorry, I'm still trying to work whole prey into the menu. >_<
With only 2 mice (assuming that he eats them completely), you still need 1.2 organ meals, and you only have .5 plus whatever of the kidney he eats. Another half meal of liver would be better.
Gotcha. I'll add a half-meal of liver to one of his bone-in quail meals.
Less bone. Either substitute some of his bone-in meals with just muscle meat or, as you said, mix his bones with muscle.
Okay, so am I right in thinking that the bone-in and muscle-meat meals are flexible, so long as his heart and liver and "other organ" needs are met? So we can always add more or less bone to help his poops with their consistency? Or is there a necessary minimum for muscle/bone-in?
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Post by gfountain on Jun 8, 2014 18:57:08 GMT -5
And try giving him a whole piece of wing, either the wingtip or middle section, not the drumette. He should be up to that by now, but you may need to cut the bone lengthwise (good kitchen shears are invaluable) for him at first so he knows there's yummy inside it. When you feed him, is he eating EVERYTHING you give him? Or leaving some for later? Do you leave it with him all day or take away whatever he doesn't eat at 'mealtime'?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 19:07:22 GMT -5
And try giving him a whole piece of wing, either the wingtip or middle section, not the drumette.
We only have the drumettes, no full-size wings. Would a chicken neck be comparable instead of the whole wing?
When you feed him, is he eating EVERYTHING you give him? Or leaving some for later?
Now that we've cut him down to 1.5 oz per meal, he rarely, but sometimes, eats all of it. Maybe once or twice, he's actually eaten everything (it's usually hearts). There's almost always about 1 to .5 oz left.
Do you leave it with him all day or take away whatever he doesn't eat at 'mealtime'?
We leave it with him. He'll often keep about half of his AM meal, and then eat all of it and all of his PM meal before the next morning. We really prefer to only remove food if it's smelling bad or hasn't been touched for 2 meals (or 24 hrs) but that has only happened with the stuff he doesn't want.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 19:10:11 GMT -5
Ahhhh, I just realized you posted twice before and I missed one. You can ignore my questions about balancing his whole prey. Lol. I think I have a better understanding now.
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