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Post by Heather on Nov 9, 2013 13:58:44 GMT -5
Name: Kate HF Forum Username: LkGrgGrrl
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
Watching the YouTube videos at Ferret World.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
While whole prey would be wonderful, I think it is more likely that I will be able to provide a frankenprey diet. Locally, parts are much more readily available than the whole. The only whole prey I've seen available here are the feeder mice for snakes. The occasional whole rabbit, but not a lot of variation. I can get parts locally. I want to FULLY switch them. This kibble is horrible for them.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
Because health is what helps them live a long life and I want them with me as long as possible. Therefore, the healthiest diet will help to keep them as healthy as possible.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
YES! No life changes coming along here. All I have is time.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have?What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
We have four lovebugs that we brought home yesterday (27/Oct/2013), so we've had them for just under 24 hours now. They all look like they are at a good weight. I can't take good pictures with my phone but will get better ones after work when I can find my camera.
Candy 2 year old female Petite but healthy as a horse
Rufus 2 year old male Early adrenal - just got a superlorin implant this past week but shows no change in diet or personality Rufus is my big boy, he's the largest of my ferrets
Skeeter 4 year old male Sleeps more than the others - keeping my eyes out for insulinoma symptoms but other than that seems healthy
Trigger 4 year old male Healthy as a horse Loves to give kisses!
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) They came home with a bag of Totally Ferret Turkey Venison and Lamb kibble from the rescue. Modified soup until my hearts and liver get here. I make it using Rad Cat Raw Turkey mixed with water in a blender.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
I gave them a modified soup last night (Rad Cat Turkey Dinner mixed with water in my blender and on the side a whole egg yolk). and Candy loved it but the boys turned their noses up at it, so I gave them a little kibble on the side (you can see them together in the large corner feeder - the white triangle bowl is soup).
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I work from home so I am with them all day long, they are almost never unsupervised. I am also on a special diet, so preparing every meal with custom ingredients is nothing new for me.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
24x7 I am always on the computer or my iPhone or iPad.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Trigger (left) & Candy (right) were easier to shoot because they were eating out. They haven't been sitting still enough out in the open for me to get good pics with my camera phone and I haven't found my real camera yet.
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave). In a little while your mentor (Violetdelusions) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. Also note there may have been some changes in the application and how you should post so please review these before proceeding. If you have any questions feel free to either ask your mentor or any of the admins. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2013 15:42:51 GMT -5
Hello! (wave) My name is McKenna, and I will be your mentor for this switch. I'll start by saying, I am here for your assistance during your entire switch and beyond that as well. I am here for anything you need, diet related or not, emotional and moral support as well. If I don't know the answers you need I will either refer you to another mentor who can help, or I will do as much research as I can to help. You can get a hold of me either with a PM here, or you can add me on Facebook (McKenna Schmitt), email (mschmitt1001@hotmail.com), or I can PM you my number if you'd like to text me as that's probably the best way to get to me ASAP (for example, if you're at the store and you're not sure if something is safe or worth buying, you can text me for a near immediate response). A little bit about myself and my ferrets: As mentioned, my name is McKenna. I'm 21 and live on the West Coast. I'm a strong advocate of natural diets for animals, as well as humans, and believe health comes primarily from diet. I currently have two ferrets, Javik and Theia. Both of which were switched 100% within their first week home (Javik was off kibble the first day - Theia took a few days longer, she's my stubborn one ). They are both under a year of age, but are not my first ferrets. I grew up with a pair of girls (Molly and Zoe) that I adored, and both passed away of natural causes in their sleep after at least 7 years in our care (they were rescues so we don't know their exact ages). I am familiar with many exotic animals, and had sugar gliders in the past as well as spending a few summers in my teens doing rescue work with gliders from back yard breeders. I currently work part time, and have a moderate social life, but I am almost always on or near my phone, so getting a hold of me is pretty easy. Helping people and animals is my passion, so having the opportunity to help humans get their ferrets onto a healthy diet and lifestyle makes me very excited. I'm thrilled to have you as my student, you sound like you have the same passion as I do. Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to start by getting an update on your progress thus far. I've read your threads from when you got your four, and saw that most of your group is doing pretty well with soup. Has there been any changes since your last post in that thread? Can you give me a detailed description of what they're currently eating in approximate amounts and how much you believe each ferret is eating daily? Also, I'd like it if you could get me a list of what meat sources and organs you have found available at what stores in your area just so I can get an idea of what you have available (I saw you also got an order from mypetcarnivore.com, could you post what that consisted of so it's easy to access from this thread?). Until your group is off the soup stage, I would like to have you post daily if possible (every other day minimum), with an update on your group's progress, including the amounts they're eating, any stool changes, and if you have changed anything about their diet (for example, if they got eggs one day, or some oil/other supplement), also include any behavioral changes including excessive sleeping, or more activity, any aggression, laziness, etc. Once a week I would like a similar update, but with a bit more detail. Please copy/paste this very short questionnaire into your switching thread one day a week (please specify which day you'd prefer). 1. Ferret's name: 2. Ferret's weight: 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins. 5. Activity levels: 6. Weekly menu: Example would be: Vincent, 3lbs 2oz(1417g), small chicken wing chopped into 2" pieces, bone and all. Stools good colour and consistency. Played as per normal. Willow, 1lb 4oz(567g), 2 tbsp commercial raw turkey, hand fed. Stools good colour and consistency. Very hyper when up, playing for 2-3 hours at a time. Mr. Frodo, 4lb 4oz(1928g), 1/4c pork slivers mixed with soup. Stools slightly loose, somewhat seedy, and pale in colour. Somewhat more tired, plays for 30 minutes, then finds somewhere to sleep. Flat ferreting more often. Weekly menu was: Monday: chicken legs Tuesday: Commercial raw Wednesday: Soup with pork slivers Etc. Just write what you actually fed them. Also, to help us make sure your ferret is doing well during his switch, a picture from above showing his body shape clearly would be appreciated bi-weekly, but is not essential. Now that the serious stuff is out of the way, if you have any more information about yourself or your group, I'd love to hear it and get to know you all! Also, if you have any questions that haven't been answered yet, now would be a good time to ask them. I'm looking forward to working with you. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 11:40:45 GMT -5
That is crazy! I never even saw that it had been created. Thank goodness you messaged me. I'm reading and posting daily but somehow I missed this!!!! (headwall)
You and I could be twins (if only I was younger again). Even the headset in your picture! I'm wearing one right now for work so that I can talk and type without getting a crick in my neck. I'm going to bombard you with posts today and then we'll get into a regular cycle.
My name is Kate. I am 34 years old. I am the girl who spent my life bringing home pets I found, pets nobody wanted, pets just because. My parents were very supportive to a certain extent. The rule was that I had to pay for them, either with my allowance, or babysitting money. So that is the only reason I didn't have ferrets as a kid. They were over my budget.
What I did have: Cats, Dogs, Hamsters, Gerbils, Rats, Anoles, Skinks, a nasty mean Tokay Gecko, African Sand Boa (they only get a foot long), Bearded Dragons and I even rescued a sick Juvenile Chinese Water Dragon from Petco but sadly he had a severe respiratory infection and there was nothing we could do to save him.
What I have now: 2 Dogs, 2 tanks full of fish and these 4 fuzzies.
I work as an IT Program Manager / IT Project Manager. I just got promoted yesterday! No worries it is actually less work. Rather than driving my own projects, I'm overseeing multiple other Project Managers to make sure they're doing their projects properly. Its quite nice.
I'll post another reply with the switch stuff shortly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 12:31:30 GMT -5
I am quite jealous of your childhood pets! I have always loved reptiles, and snakes specifically, but my mother is a total wimp (lol) and refused to allow anything cold blooded into my house. She's even deathly terrified of frogs! I've always wanted a snake, but have yet to have the chance. I did grow up around furry animals though, I've never not had a pet in my life. We've had cats, dogs, a hamster, ferrets, and I had my sugar gliders which were my pets and my pets only (my parents weren't happy when I decided to get them, but they said as long as I pay for them and keep them in my room it was okay - they were even less happy when I started rescuing them lol but still were supportive.) Have you posted pics of your fish tanks?? I haven't had fish of my own before, but I do love to oogle over other people's tanks lol, another creature I'd love to have one day is a bichir (something about creatures with long bodies I guess ). Congrats on the promotion! How exciting
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 12:36:13 GMT -5
Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to start by getting an update on your progress thus far. I've read your threads from when you got your four, and saw that most of your group is doing pretty well with soup. Has there been any changes since your last post in that thread? All four are 100% off kibble and full soupies. Candy and Trigger are piggies and quickly putting on their winter fat. Rufus and Skeeter aren't eating as much as I'd like (that I can see), but since they were used to grazing on kibble, I was leaving a huge bowl of soup in their room during the day. They'd all wake up, use the bathroom and go eat a bit so until today I had no idea how much each was eating. I just knew that at the end of the day, the food was all gone. As of today, I've started measuring what each is eating and tracking it in a spreadsheet.
I can tell you that there is a remarkable difference in their coats and their musk smells sweeter, their poops smell better and have a nicer consistency, their activity levels have increased, their water consumption has decreased. They seem much more enthusiastic about eating. Can't say I blame 'em.Can you give me a detailed description of what they're currently eating in approximate amounts and how much you believe each ferret is eating daily? Well I've been doing a frankengrind monster blend. I had leftovers this past week to get rid of in preparation for a new order from MPC, so this is what they had in each blend: 2 oz chicken hearts
1.5 oz of lamb liver
1 oz of ground whole rabbit
1 oz of Bravo Basics ground buffalo
2 oz ground whole chicken
2 oz boneless, skinless chicken breast cutlet 1 whole egg (to help during hairball season)
I've been alternating between 1 TBSP of EVOO and the whole egg. On the EVOO days, I put the ground eggshells in.
I use a Magic Bullet to blend it all up, so even though I have chopped up meat parts (hearts, liver, cutlets), they blend into a glop. I usually add in some warm water because they prefer their soupies warm and it helps to keep my blender from getting clogged up with parts.
I would say that Trigger is eating 3 - 4 oz daily. Candy is eating 2 - 3 oz daily. Skeeter and Rufus are only eating about 1 - 2 oz daily.Also, I'd like it if you could get me a list of what meat sources and organs you have found available at what stores in your area just so I can get an idea of what you have available (I saw you also got an order from mypetcarnivore.com, could you post what that consisted of so it's easy to access from this thread?). At local stores they don't have much. At Benson's Pet Center they have Rad Cat Turkey, all of the Natures Variety, and a series of Bravo (but the only grain free is the Bravo Basics Ground Buffalo). We have a local butcher who says he can get me hearts or organs, but in 40lb cases only and no mixed cases, so I'd have to buy 40 lbs of heart, 40 lbs of liver, etc etc. It isn't cost effective. I buy in bulk on MPC and this order was chicken hearts, lamb liver, green beef tripe (ground), ground whole rabbit, ground whole turkey, ground whole chicken, chicken feet and chicken necks. My regular grocery stores have chicken cutlets and pork chops, turkey, etc. However, I worry about preservatives and other things which are not healthy for them.Until your group is off the soup stage, I would like to have you post daily if possible (every other day minimum), with an update on your group's progress, including the amounts they're eating, any stool changes, and if you have changed anything about their diet (for example, if they got eggs one day, or some oil/other supplement), also include any behavioral changes including excessive sleeping, or more activity, any aggression, laziness, etc. Today, this is what we have. Weights are probably not 100% accurate because getting a fert to sit still in a bowl on a scale is next to impossible (bounce) (as you know).
Rufus Weight: 34.00 oz. Food Consumption: 1.50 oz. Stools: regular Activity level: high - he's awake 4 - 6 hours each day, plays for about 2 hours at a time, digs in the box, runs around, very inquisitive, climbs up the fouton, very curiousTrigger
Weight: 38.85 oz.
Food Consumption: 3.90 oz.
Stools: regular
Activity level: high - he's awake an average of 4 hours each day, but plays for about 30 to 60 minutes before going to lie down, digs in the box, runs around and wants to play with the others, very vocal dooking the whole time, loves his tunnel, climbs up the fouton, very curious Candy Weight: 24.05 oz.
Food Consumption: 1.75 oz.
Stools: regular
Activity level: high - she's awake 4 - 6 hours each day, she's often up for 2 - 3 hours in the morning before lying back down, digs in the box, runs around, very inquisitive, climbs up the fouton, very curious Skeeter Weight: 33.90 oz.
Food Consumption: 1.30 oz.
Stools: regular
Activity level: high - he's awake about 4 hours each day, he'll get up and run around for 1 to 1.5 hours, digs in the box, tunnels through the blanket and then eventually after tunneling he just falls asleep in the blanket, likes to chew on things - ramps, plastic balls from the ball pit, so I've given him a chicken foot instead to try to get him chewing something allowed. He gnaws on that for a bit but doesn't seem to be eating it - there are chicken bits everywhere.Once a week I would like a similar update, but with a bit more detail. Please copy/paste this very short questionnaire into your switching thread one day a week (please specify which day you'd prefer). For the weekly going forward, I think Sundays are best. That is when I do their ears, nails and teeth, and so I hope they will let me also get their weights. I'll be measuring their food intake to track it in my spreadsheet, so I can hopefully get them a bit more regular.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 13:00:15 GMT -5
Fantastic! They all sound to be doing well! It does look like Skeeter and Rufus are pretty narrow at the hip - likely malnourished from their kibble years. These are the exact pictures we look for, for these reasons Have you placed your new order from MPC yet? If so, could you list what you ordered in what sizes/weights? If they're digging right into their soup readily, I think at this point you can try adding some of your grinds to the mix. For example, feed 3/4 a meal of soup, and the other 1/4 ground, mix it together and see how they do with that. Adjust the amount of each depending on if they're leaving the ground meat or eating it all. My trick to getting my two to sit still for weigh ins is to use a small squeeze bottle (mine is 2 oz I believe) with oil in it and let them lick a tiny amount while you wait for the numbers to sit still. They still move a bit, but far less than normal. If you don't want to get a bottle, then just put some oil on your finger for them
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 13:11:13 GMT -5
The order from MPC was delivered yesterday: 3 lbs. Chicken Necks 4 lbs. Fine Ground Whole Turkey 2 lbs. Ground Green Beef Tripe 2 lbs. Fine Ground Whole Rabbit 3 lbs. Lamb Liver 1 lb. Fine Ground Whole Chicken 1 bag Chicken Feet (@20 feet) 2 lbs. Chicken Hearts Oh and Skeeter is back up. This poop was runny, but then again the soupies were very soupie - mushy and so I guess I would expect their poop to match, right? Orangey/Brown with some bubbles? And of course he missed the paper. Is that maybe because of the egg? Would that make them have soft stools? Also, great idea on the oil squeeze bottle. I'll have to find one and order some salmon oil too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 13:20:39 GMT -5
If they're digging right into their soup readily, I think at this point you can try adding some of your grinds to the mix. So, I did a light blend over the weekend to see if I could get them to eat some things that were a little more solid. The reactions from each are similar and crack me up. They lap up the soup readily and then when a chunk ends up in their mouths, they freeze. Slowly look around to see who is watching them and either eat it quick or run to a hidey spot to eat the chunk in private. I have a feeling they're going to be big time stashers. I'll get to spend my days hunting out spoiled meat that has been hidden. I do have a feeding den in the works but so far they don't seem keen on eating in it. When they run and hide it is usually under my fouton.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 14:07:37 GMT -5
Yes, that definitely looks like an egg poop, and the runnier the soup, the runnier the poop, they'll eventually even out though.
If you're concerned about stashing, a good solution would be to get a large rubbermaid container (dark in color so that it's dark inside), and cut a hole large enough for them to fit through in it. It's best to use it upside-down, so they're eating on the lid, that way clean up would just require you to rinse the lid off. Most times this will stop stashing, because essentially, when they stash it's to find a small dark space where they feel they can eat in peace and not be interrupted.
As they adjust to the chunks from the blend (those reactions sound hilarious btw), you can start making it thicker/less soupy until you're left with as little soupiness as possible, then start making the chunks larger. If you have any questions about this process please ask me, I know that wasn't very detailed lol
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 14:39:05 GMT -5
Trigger just did a poop and it was pretty solid, so I'm not too worried. He's the biggest eater of the bunch and he doesn't balk at the chunky stuff. Trigger the pigger!
I have a large rubbermaid container with a door hole in it. That's the one they don't like to eat in LOL. My intended feeding den. They keep pooping in it instead of eating in it. These guys defy all of the "rules" of ferrets... poop on bedding, poop in food spots, poop wherever they want.
I'm excited to try the chunks this evening!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 14:26:49 GMT -5
Man they change daily.
Today, Rufus is my rock star. I mixed grinds in today. So same soup base, but today's grinds were a combination of whole ground Turkey and ground Green Tripe (beef). They all prefer the spoon feeding to getting their chins dirty. Rufus has been opening wide to get a HUGE mouthful off the spoon (tried to take the spoon a few times too) and then he runs to a dark spot to eat in private.
Trigger and Candy both did the "oh my god, I have a CHUNK!" freeze move. They slowly move their head away from the bowl/spoon and then run away to go wash their faces. Trigger is even more ridiculous. He tries to give himself a full bath after he gets soupie chunks on him. But he does it standing up. So he'll balance on his head while trying to lick his belly. I have to take some videos for you.
Skeeter is being difficult today. He did gnaw on his chicken foot a little, but not enough for me to feel good about the fact that he barely ate anything today.
Food Consumed Rufus: 2.40 oz Trigger: 2.15 oz Candy: 1.25 oz Skeeter: 0.45 oz
I will try for another feeding in a few hours. I know its still early.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 14:34:09 GMT -5
Go Rufus!! That's great that he's taking to it so well Trigger and Candy sound like they're doing well, it just takes some adjusting for them to go from eating liquids to being like "oh, wait, there's something in my mouth that I actually have to chew?" I think I know exactly what you're talking about with Trigger's belly cleaning thing. Let me know if Skeeter eats more later, sounds like he just wasn't in the mood for food at the time haha.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 18:26:48 GMT -5
Skeeter is up to 1 oz. for the day.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 15:52:35 GMT -5
Sorry I forgot to post yesterday. How have they been eating and are there any changes in diet, appetite, activity, etc?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 9:55:44 GMT -5
Howdy. Sorry, I've been fighting a bug all weekend so I didn't handle them as much as I had anticipated. I plan to get updated photos and weights for you today.
What I did notice is that when I was feeding them individually (to weigh the food and get exact amounts), they didn't eat as much. When I put the food down and let them all tackle it at once, they eat well. I also forget that as kibble fed ferrets, they were used to all day grazing. None of them are fully used to eating huge meals a couple of times each day. I observed Skeeter eating a ton more when I left the bowl there all day for them. He likes to grab a bite here and there periodically through the day.
They also don't like to be watched (like most ferrets) and don't like me to tell them when and where they are supposed to eat. So, none of them want to eat when I first sit the food down. After they think I've stopped paying attention to them, they sneak in to grab a bite.
So my big plan to feed them individually, so I can weigh their food and get exact amounts, actually backfired because it disrupted their normal eating habits and got them eating less. I'm going to have to just pay attention throughout the day to who is eating when and give a best estimate as to how much each is eating. If we see drastic weight loss or anything else, I can address that individual ferret.
I did have a question about Rufus and Skeeter. How long after they've been on raw would you expect them to start putting on good weight? I'm really worried about how bony their little butts are.
Candy, Trigger and Skeeter are still having pretty normal soupie poops because they really haven't embraced the grinds as much and are doing their best to eat around the chunks. Rufus has great poops because he grabs a big hunk and eats it so his poops are starting to more resemble the ones my snake and lizards used to do. It looks like a hunk of meat encased in a sack. Weird since I'm not feeding whole pray, but some of these organs have a strong casing (the liver is thready).
Activity has been through the roof. Finally, I get crazy bouncing babies. Stealth attacks, war dancing and barrel rolls. I've been waiting for that since I brought them home. I also think they're becoming more comfortable here. They have been very light sleepers for ferrets. I don't know if it is that they weren't used to their home or if they were just super curious, but they would wake up every time I went near the enclosure.
Yesterday, however, Skeeter did the Dead Ferret Sleep. It was precious. I had brought them home a new squishy pet bed (soooooooo comfy) and set it up for them inside one of their play cubes. I usually move them into new beds when I bring them so they can rub their scent all over it, and Skeeter is usually the king, but this time he was all slumpy. I realized that he was passed out! So, I took the opportunity to snuggle him for a while. It was great! So, is he sleeping better because of his diet, or because he is feeling safe and secure? I don't know why, but I'm happy to see it.
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