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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 12:15:52 GMT -5
That's a very normal observation Sometimes they do alright with hand fed meals, especially the first few weeks when they aren't taking too well to the soup, but since yours took to it so well, just leaving soup out for them should be fine. Keep in mind, soup can be out for 4-6 hours before going bad, any longer and you might want to replace it. Ferrets tend to be the type to snack periodically throughout the day, especially on kibble. With raw we still tend to allow them to snack rather than eat full meals, but it is important to know if each ferret is eating enough in a day. It's not too important to weigh out their servings unless you feel more comfortable with that, just keep a mental note of how many times you catch each one going in for a snack. If one seems to be slacking, then you can try to hand feed that one every few hours just to be sure he/she is eating enough. It tends to take about a month depending on the age of the ferret and how long they have been on kibble for the whole process to fully take effect, if that makes sense. It generally takes a month after kibble has been completely removed for ferrets over a few years to detox entirely, often times it takes even longer. After the detox is when I've noticed people really start to see physical differences (such as weight gain, fuller/softer coats, muscle density, etc). Aww, I'm so glad you're finally seeing them come out of their shells It is very strange how they KNOW, even when they're "sleeping", that you're close. My deaf boy, Javik, almost always knows when I walk through my door and immediately pops his head out of his bed and runs to the cage door to greet me. Theia on the other hand could care less I'm not sure why they're sleeping better, it could be a combination of better health, more energy burned during play time, and they're finally getting comfortable in their home and realizing it's THEIR home
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 13:15:04 GMT -5
I don't know if Skeeter's reduced eating just cleansed him or what but he is the softest of the ferrets. He is like a ball of silk. Candy smells the best - she smells like candy actually - very sweet. Rufus looks the roughest but that is because his hair is growing back and its shorter in patches on his body. Trigger is a combination of all. He has soft and course fur, some spots smell musky, some smell sweet.
I'm still afraid to go near them too much today. I have a horrible head cold. Sneezing and sniffling and I don't want them to get sick. I have no idea if this is viral or bacterial or what. I am washing my hands religiously before I handle them, but you never can be too careful.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 14:22:06 GMT -5
Theia is like Skeeter right now, she has the softest fur I've ever felt. It's plush and soft as a mink, Javik is currently the opposite unfortunately. I'm almost positive he has his seasons reversed (he was born in January, so it would make sense), his fur is short and coarse and he's the thinnest I've ever seen him, yet he's always the first to dig into their meals and eats a lot more than Theia. They both have pretty strong grape tail though (If you haven't heard of it yet, you must find the thread about it! It's so strange) It's definitely better to be cautious when sick, I hated it, but when I got really sick in October I avoided the ferrets as much as possible. I would feed them and sleep in my room, and that's it. They were kept in their cage when I was in there and all of their ways to access my bed were blocked off or removed. It sucks, but it's best for them is what I had to constantly tell them even though all I wanted to do was cuddle with Javik (Theia doesn't cuddle).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 10:37:32 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 15:52:18 GMT -5
Since you added ground meat, have they been leaving any of it in the dishes prior to you cleaning up? If they are, then leave the grinds at the same ratio you have been and only once they start eating it all every day should you increase the amounts Other than that, everything sounds great and they're looking fantastic Have you gotten weights yet?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 17:31:56 GMT -5
Yup, just had to wait until they woke up again to weigh them. I don't have an oil dropper yet, so I used petromalt to keep them still.
We have the following weights: Rufus: 36.20 oz. Trigger: 41.95 oz. Skeeter: 37.90 oz. Candy: 24.75 oz.
I know these are accurate because the numbers stopped moving on the scale. So we'll have to use these as the baseline I think because the others were off a bit since they were moving so much.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 18:10:25 GMT -5
You know, we kept their names because they came with them but if I could have named them, Trigger would have been Diesel. He's a tank! He looks fat but he's all muscle. His neck is so thick I have trouble finding skin to scruff him.
Candy would have been Bella. My little Bella Belle. She is so teeny and she's such a love. She is a gorgeous girl with her awesome dark nose - I love that. For the three seconds she will stay in my arms she nuzzles and puts her little head on my neck. Oh and she totally has grape tail! Its very faint but her tail smells like kool-aid!
Rufus... hmm. His personality has changed so much since he came here. They called him Rufus the Goofus at the rescue. He's not really goofy at all though. He seems like such a brainiac. He's so smart and kind. He is very attentive and he's a mama's fert. My husband favorited him right away but Rufus loves his mama. I'll have to keep thinking on that one.
Skeeter. I might have called him silk. He has felt like the softest pile of fluff since the minute we got him home. He is a bit skittish still. Maybe Skrat, like that crazy squirrel from Ice Age.
Where did you come up with the names for your ferrets?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2013 19:15:15 GMT -5
You know, there's no problem changing their name when you bring them home a new home warrants a new name in most cases. I think all your choices sound great and very fitting given your reason for them. Javik is named after an alien character from a video game I adore. Theia's name was a bit of an unexpected stumbling. Before I got her, but while I was still planning on adopting a second ferret, I had been watching a documentary about space and the galaxy, in which they mentioned Theia, the theorized sister planet of Earth which is believed to have collided with us millions of years ago and the debris from which created our moon. I loved the sound of it so I did some research, and found out Theia was also a titan goddess of sight and the daughter of earth and sky (gaia and uranus). The name alone also means goddess so I added it to my list of names. I love both space related things as well as mythology. Anyway, her personality seemed to fit the name do that's the one that stuck
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2013 21:57:40 GMT -5
They ate well today. Rufus is doing ok with slivers of liver. Although I found out that he began stashing some of them. My husband and I noticed this odd smell. Sure enough, under the fouton is a pile of liver slivers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 17:53:25 GMT -5
So, today I soupified the liver and hearts mixed with some whole egg and some green tripe and put rabbit grinds in for the meaty part. They loved it. The morning bowls were empty by noon (they are fed at 9am). The evening bowls are half empty and I'm putting leftovers in the fridge.
I think that before we pursue getting them onto the slivers and moving towards frankenprey, I'd prefer to get Rufus and Skeeter fattened up. I've found something they love and I'd like to do the detox phase and get them nourished again.
I put chicken neck in for them to gnaw on when it strikes them. The chicken foot I gave them last week was half eaten by Skeeter, so that is good. Even if they're using it for a chew toy and not food, its better than them chewing on something they shouldn't.
I'd say we had the usual intake today. Candy at 2 oz. Rufus and Skeeter at probably 2.5 oz. Trigger at 4 oz.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 0:52:39 GMT -5
Could you get me the measurements of what you put in the soup if possible? I agree, keeping them on the soup for a few weeks or months would likely be beneficial to Rufus and Skeeter, and it definitely wouldn't hurt Candy and Trigger either. My only concern if you do use this soup recipe for so long is that it might be too much liver (which is why I'm asking for a recipe), and there's a chance you'll have some really wet poops from the egg if fed too often. Other than that it should be fine, and the daily heart is always encouraged. I'm glad they're enjoying it with the tripe, tripe can sometimes be an iffy addition as some animals LOVE it, other turn their nose to it and anything it touches (can't blame them; the stuff stinks lol). I'm glad to see the gang is eating an average amount again now
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 9:47:56 GMT -5
They don't really love the tripe. I have to use it minimally and ensure that it is masked by everything else. They hate the smell. Trigger my pigger will actually turn his nose up at it. Funniest thing I've seen. Not sure I'm going to order it again soon. This afternoon when I give them their second feeding I will give you weights of the ingredients. I don't want to over liver them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 12:52:38 GMT -5
Okay Liver only needs to be fed as half a meal a week, so about 5% of their overall diet. Either you can just add it to one soup a week, or (and this will be more difficult, but we can figure out the numbers if you want). If you're feeding it daily, you'll want it to be 5% of the soup, so say you're feeding 16 oz of soup a day (1 lb), 5% of 16 oz would be .8 oz in each soup, which would be 1.6 tablespoons (so you can just do 1.5 tbsps and not level them off completely.)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 11:13:51 GMT -5
This is what I have been giving them at each meal. YIKES!! 1.60 oz. Liver 1.60 oz. Hearts 6.15 oz. Grinds (assorted - today was Green Tripe and Rabbit) 1 egg or 1 Tbsp. EVOO + Eggshell Today's total after adding water and soupifying part of it was 14.45 oz. (the Magic Bullet doesn't hold a lot).
Ok, so now that you've brought that to the forefront of my attention I want to kick myself. I had downloaded all of the raw diet documents from the FB page. I just haven't read them lately. I have re-read them this morning. So here is the plan going forward. Based on the "Basic Frankenprey Menu Guidelines" document, and a 7 day menu consisting of AM/PM (2 meals a day), I need to have 64% Edible Bone-in Meat, followed by 21% muscle meat, 7% Heart and 7% Organs. I next re-read the "What Defines a NUTRITIONAL organ meat" document so that I could pick the right foods for my next MPC order. This is what I have for categories:Edible Bone-In Meat: Ground Whole Goat, Ground Whole Rabbit, Ground Whole Duck Muscle Meat: Goat Lung Chunks, Pork Tongue Chunks Heart: Turkey Hearts Organ Meat: Green Beef Tripe, Ground Lamb Pancreas, Chicken Liver, Beef Spleen Ground This will also satisfy the need for multiple food sources since I've got 8 different animals in this order. I have done the math to figure out daily ratios based on 10 oz. total per meal (since I'm in the 9 - 10 oz. range anyway). That gives me 6.43 oz. of Edible Bone-In Meats, 2.14 oz. of Muscle Meat, 0.71 oz. of Heart, 0.71 oz. Liver/Organs per meal. Now that I have that locked down it will be easier to portion and pack my meal containers.
I also noticed that when I serve the ground chicken, Skeeter has green poops. When I serve the Rabbit he doesn't, so I think chicken might be off the menu for a while. They're not too keen on the Green Tripe chunks by itself, but if I use it to make the "broth" so that it gets blended in, they get the nutritional value with out balking at the taste so much. They love ground Turkey too, and I thought I'd try some Duck out on them next. I didn't have my phone with me and so I didn't get any pictures at this AM feeding, but for their PM feeding, I will. I did get their weights though. Weigh-InRufus: 36.60 oz. / up 0.40 oz. Trigger: 42.45 oz. / up 0.50 oz. Candy: 27.00 oz. / up 2.25 oz. Skeeter: 41.45 oz. / up 3.25 oz. All four are happy, healthy, bouncing baby ferts. (bounce) (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2013 18:14:19 GMT -5
I'd just like to start by saying THANK YOU, you're a great student I love how organized you are and your willingness to do your research (I AM here to help you with that, but it's always a good sign for the future that you're researching on your own without prompting). Now to the ferrets Since you are using a whole animal ground product, your organ sources will be completely balanced within the grind, so adding liver at all isn't recommended (making your process easier lol). You can still add additional heart, tripe, eggs, and oil though as you can't really have TOO much taurine, and the rest are just additional nutrients. You don't need to add the eggshells, however, because your grinds always have 10-15% bone, which is a pretty ideal amount. The grinds you buy from MPC are completely balanced alone, so you don't NEED to add anything to them, but if you'd like to spice things up (I'm the type who enjoys "creating" meals for my ferrets rather than just plopping some premade grinds into their dish and calling it good lol) you can continue to add the heart, tripe, egg, and oil as you wish, just be careful of the last two as it is possible to overdo it (which you'll be able to see in their poops easily enough). Keep note of these numbers that you found for the future though, you'll need it once you progress to a chunked frankenprey diet if you choose that over all commercial grinds. Also, tongue is a very good addition to the diet (especially cow tongue) because it is very rich in taurine, which as I mentioned is very important and hard to overfeed. If you do choose to go with chunks vs grinds, I'd highly recommend feeding the typical frankenprey menu vs feeding all categories in one day/meal. Instead, feed bone-in 7-9 meals a week, muscle meat 3-5, 1-2 meals of heart, and 1 meal of liver and organ mix. There are many reason we don't suggest feeding everything mixed together, the main reason is it would make it harder to pinpoint any allergies or recalled/spoiled meat, etc. We actually have a mentor who was feeding a mix, but one of his ferrets developed a serious food allergy and because of the mix he has been and still is working on pinpointing what her allergy is. That said, your research is very well executed, and you've got a very balanced looking plan. I'm so glad to see weight gains all around! Especially Skeeter! Yay (dance)
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