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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 11:58:29 GMT -5
You're welcome. I think my researching is more out of habit than anything. I have Celiac Disease so feeding myself is a project. I have to research brands, ingredients, etc and find out how things are manufactured, where they are processed. I, myself, am on a primarily raw diet. I eat raw greens and organic, free range, local meat products. My Thanksgiving Turkey is coming from a farm 30 minutes away and going to our local butcher who is brining it for me. No big-box store food in my house. That is good to know about the not having to put extra organs in because the grinds are well balanced. That being said, I know you said too much taurine isn't a problem, but what happens if they ingest too much organ meat (liver/pancreas)? I keep searching to find that detail. Most of the stuff I saw was about people missing ingredients and that causing issues, but I didn't see anything about giving too much other than it changing the poop consistency. Will they get sick from too much liver? Thank you My Pet Carnivore for making my life easier lol. OK, so they really seem to like the heart. I have no problem doing the "one at a time" frankenprey menu when the time comes. With soup, it is much easier to add everything to the soup, especially since they don't always eat the same amount each day. I'd hate for one of them to eat less on a heart day, and miss out on the taurine. Baby steps though. We're still soupifying everything, so blended it is. Yesterday I cleared out the entire ferret room and cleaned it from top to bottom. After finding Rufus's stash of about 20 globs of soup chunks under my fouton (so that's where that smell came from), and wrapped up in the part of my curtain that was touching the floor, I decided to employ the feeding dens. Rufus only drags things under the fouton when he's being watched. Well, I just made my life more difficult again. I didn't want to disturb their eating but I also can't take top and side pictures for you through the wall of a tupperware container (headwall). I will figure out a way to get the pictures. Let me think on it. When they're not eating they're never sitting still, so any suggestions? I hate to keep bribing them to sit still for things with Petromalt. My salmon oil and squeeze bottle haven't arrived yet. This is the picture I have for you right now:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 13:22:01 GMT -5
I'm the same way. I don't have celiac but I am very conscious about the food I eat and pretty much every time I make a new shopping list I spend hours research what food I want to eat. Too much liver can lead to vitamin A overdose, the symptoms of which are mostly loose stools in ferrets, but in extreme cases they might reflect the symptoms humans show which include hair loss, bone fragility, eye inflammation, skin disease, nervous disorders, and vomiting. While this is very uncommon, it is still possible. Don't worry about how much they've had so far, it takes a lot of liver over a long period for ferrets to start developing a vitamin a overdose. Haha I feel your pain with the stashing. I have an old queen size sheet covering my cage but it's so long that the bottom rests in a pile on the floor which of course is now their favorite stashing spot. Don't worry about the pics this week if you can't get them then it's fine if you wait until you get the oil (it makes things SO much easier). If you want to try to get pics still, you can put some soup or a treat on a clean, washable surface and have them lick it up while you take a picture.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 13:50:41 GMT -5
The good news is that I haven't given ground chicken in about 3 days and Skeeter's poop is no longer green. It looks great. He doesn't seem to mind the chicken hearts (I ordered turkey hearts this time around just to be safe)), but he has been enjoying ground rabbit. I saw what you wrote about Beef Tongue before. I was very surprised that given the amount of beef items available from MPC, they didn't have Beef Tongue. Maybe they sell those to butcher shops since ethnic chefs love to cook with it (my Italian grandmother loved it - yech, not me). I took what I thought was the next best thing I could find, which was the Pork Tongue. One thing I noticed recently is that my Trigger has stopped giving me kisses I suspect its my chapstick though. I use Burts Bees with Peppermint Oil, and since he was a lip kisser, I think he probably hates my lips now. I know ferrets and essential oils don't mix. Oh well. It took my husband three years to get used to my Burts Bees. He hated it too .
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 12:25:45 GMT -5
Yeah, it's strange how some suppliers only have body parts from specific animals and not others. I'm not sure of the reason.
Aww, it happens. Javik used to cuddle every day with me (see my profile pic), but now he doesn't except on rare occasion. It doesn't mean they love you any less, they just go through phases just like children lol
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2013 13:46:33 GMT -5
Oh no, does that mean he's a teenager now? HAHAHA
Thanks for chiming up on the FB page. I didn't even want to mention the Petromalt, but I had no choice because they are used to it. I feel like a substance abuse counselor, trying to get these kids off drugs. At the rescue they were Q-Tipping the ferrets ears every week during hygiene time (nails, teeth, ears) with globs of Petromalt used to keep them calm/occupied. I know its bad for them so I try not to use it when at all possible. I did the other 3's ears all without it, just scruffing. But my Skeeter... anyway.
When I looked today, they looked better and I did the stuff Sherry suggested with just petting and loving him when I touched his scruff today. He fell asleep with me rubbing his head, neck and then while he was half asleep I used my fingers to rub his ears. If I can get him used to that, then I can rub Salmon Oil on them and Trigger will clean them for him.
BTW, its not that I don't want to ask you, but sometimes its timing and FB is just quicker. If you send me an email on FB we can exchange cell phones and text each other. I won't bombard you with silly questions, like the one I had about making my under-fouton hidey box thing. But for diet, hygiene, health related I will. Sound good?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2013 11:29:50 GMT -5
Wow, for some reason this thread showed up as read in my feed so I just assumed the most recent reply was my own (I've been using my phone lately). I'm so sorry I didn't reply sooner! Yes, he's definitely acting like a teenager! lol No problem The people on the FB group understand, like Scott had said, he wasn't going after you for using it, but rather posting the info for the people who kept suggesting it (THEY should know better). We all had to start somewhere with our babies, when I had my first pair of ferrets (back when I was a child so I didn't know any better), my dad fed them cheap kibble, we used ferrevite (the pastey stuff like petromalt), and we even sometimes gave them slices of bananas for a treat! Looking back we were lucky they never got insulinoma and instead died natural deaths in their sleep. The scruff and stroke method works amazingly I did it with Javik when I first got him just to strengthen our bond since he never reacted bad to being scruffed. Theia though, she used to jerk and FREAK out when I even tried to scruff her, so I've been working with this method for a few months (not very consistently) to make her more comfortable, and it's working. She's a lot better with scruffing and only gets squirmy when she's been scruffed for a few minutes. She was a huge pain when it came to nail time though, she didn't like being scruffed, she HATED getting anything on her belly, and when I had my boyfriend hold her she'd twist in his arm and try to wiggle herself out. The ONLY thing that has worked with her for nail is solidified coconut oil so I give her a small chunk of it on her belly (because it's solidified it doesn't seep into her fur and make her uncomfortable) and that gives me enough time to get it done. It's no problem if you post on the FB group If I see it in time I'll likely reply, if not someone else surely will. Just be wary when posting there, there are some people who are new to the group and suggest things we advise against. If you see anything you're iffy about just cross reference it with me to be safe The hidey box was probably a good this to post to the group - I'm horrible with construction type projects! Haha
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 12:50:32 GMT -5
I usually only listen to the replies from known HFF Mentors: you, Jayson, Sherry, Katt.
I hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving. The babies are still eating well. Skeeter HATES the salmon oil so maybe he and Theia are cousins. Maybe I'll try coconut oil with him.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 15:31:38 GMT -5
There are actually quite a few mentors/admins on the FB group, if you go to the member's list, all the admins should be at the top of the list, so you can check there to make sure they're reputable with information. There are a LOT of trustworthy members as well, but it's hard to tell who to trust until you've been in the group for a while. As for the salmon oil, don't worry too much. Some salmon oil brands are purer than others which makes the flavor a lot stronger so it does take them some time to adjust. When I first got salmon oil mine didn't care for it either too much so I had to dilute it with oils they were used to and slowly added more salmon oil to the bottle as it got used up. My mix for that was 1/3 salmon oil, 1/3 coconut oil, and 1/3 olive oil. If there's an oil you have that they're used to you can start by mixing that in. Even ferretone if it's what they're used to, just start with a very small amount of the mix and keep adding salmon oil as they adjust. I hope that makes sense lol My Thanksgiving was great, hope yours was too
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Post by katt on Dec 2, 2013 14:41:35 GMT -5
I'm just posting here so I can watch this thread. You are doing really great so far, adorable fuzz.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 14:57:53 GMT -5
Oh good grief, I can't win. My husband and best friend both spent Thanksgiving at my home, completely sick. I have now caught both of their illnesses - fever, chills, viral bronchitis, sinus infection. I feel like death and a bad parent because now I can't snuggle my babies. So, sorry if posts are few and far between, but I'm going to spend a lot of time sleeping this week.
Skeeter hates me and I think he's traumatized by my cutting his nails on Saturday. The shelter used Petromalt and now he won't even go near that. I have been using Sherry's suggestions but Skeeter will only let me pet him/touch his scruff/go near him when he's in his snuggle sack. In it, I can pick him up, he'll sleep on me, but out of it, he freaks out when he sees my hands coming towards him and runs away.
On a positive note, Rufus, who looked (and I quote my sister) "like a sad sack, " has filled out. His fur has grown back since the Superlorin implant and it no longer looks thin and scraggly. It is lush and full and he has become the biggest snuggler. On Saturday, after nails, he fell asleep on my chest and curled his head up under my chin (I was lying on the couch). He slept that way for an hour before I had to get up to use the bathroom. I was so mad at my bladder.
Candy has a tiny bald spot on her neck and also a small tooth mark. I suspect that Waardy Trigger, who is 3x her size was playing a little rough with her. She is not itching or displaying any other Adrenal symptoms, so, I'll keep an eye on it but I suspect its ok.
Trigger is no longer eating as much as he was. It seems he's now regulated his intake instead of acting like a starving, malnourished, ferret. He's now a fat, healthy, properly hydrated ferret who doesn't need to eat as much. I suspect that Skeeter may pass him in weight at some point.
Anyway, aside from Skeeter, who got the fast poops from me cutting his nails, everyone else is pooping normally. I'm going to keep an eye out this week since I didn't realize MPC won't ship at all on Holiday weeks. I ordered the week before thinking they'd ship Monday and it would be at my house before Thanksgiving. No dice. They shipped it today, so I'm making due with chicken breast, liver, hearts, and powdered eggshell to make soup. It is only 5 meals this week like that, but it is still different from what they've been eating, so hopefully the chicken doesn't aggravate their little tummies too much.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2013 15:22:23 GMT -5
It is, unfortunately, cold and flu season I hope you feel better soon and hopefully this will be your last illness for the season! I hate being sick so much. Theia was definitely the same way when I first started clipping nails She was skittish for quite some time when I first got her. If possible, maybe next time you can try just clipping one paw at a time to hopefully cut back on the stress. Reward him after each session and let him play for a while before going back for the next paw (try to get him after he's done a lot of playing and is tired and warn out, he'll hopefully put up less of a fight and won't be as stressed). You might even have to wait a few days between trimmings which will make it a pretty constant thing, but it might help ease him into it. Make sure you handle him a lot when he's not getting trimmings so he doesn't fear you and think you handling him equals a nail trimming though. This will have to be something you play by ear, however. All ferrets are different so not all techniques will work on all ferrets, if you try this method and find that it's just not working for him then by all means stop and see if you can work out something that might be more comfortable for him. I'm so glad to hear Rufus is looking better! I love ferret cuddles They're so special. It does sound like Candy's injury is from rough play, if it persists let me know. It sounds like you're right about Trigger, they often start out as little piggies at the beginning of the switch and after they've gained the nutrition they were missing from kibble they start to slow down. The chicken should be fine, the off poop you experienced before might just have been from improper digestion which happens sometimes when a new protein is introduced.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 11:55:54 GMT -5
So, the idiots at UPS messed up and forgot to unpack the truck on Monday, and so my MPC order won't be here now until tomorrow. None of them liked the soupie chicken yesterday - I think it was too gloppy. Today I made it with chicken chunks and the soupie part was more watery.
Skeeter is now throwing up. He threw up all of the chicken soupie he ate. He is miserable. He hates the salmon oil. I was hoping it would coat his stomach but smelling it made him gag and he threw up again. I'm trying Olive Oil now and I have a small bit of ground turkey left. OK and he rejected that too. He has miserable diarrhea and he is such and unhappy fert right now. Based on that, would you guess that he is allergic to chicken?
I can't wait until the MPC gets here tomorrow and I can get them back on rabbit. Even Trigger is not loving the chicken- his poops are runny and bubbly (poop chart says new foods can do this). Rufus kind of liked it. Candy doesn't like it either but she ate it, not as much.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 14:08:08 GMT -5
Yes, it does sound like an allergy, or at least a sensitivity. If possible, try making soup with pork or beef until your shipment arrives.
The only other thing we could think of is a possible blockage. Have they been shedding a lot recently? Or have you noticed any objects with chew marks or missing entirely? If there's a lot of shedding this can lead to a hairball which can trigger vomiting and gagging, in this case I'd recommend feeding 2 eggs to the group once every other day.
If you think there's a possibility that he ate something he shouldn't have, I'd recommend feeding him vaseline and/or raw 100% pumpkin. If this causes vomiting as well then please get him to a vet as soon as possible. Blockages can become dangerous very quickly. Has he had any solid poops in the past few hours?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 16:50:02 GMT -5
He hasn't had solid poops since eating the chicken, but they're not totally liquid. The first day on chicken he was pooping very runny. Today it was half and half. Half mushy poop, half liquid. He seems ok now. No more vomiting but just to be safe, I've removed all of the ball-pit balls that he likes to chew on. He wasn't eating them,and there are no missing parts that I can see, but now I'm being paranoid and I need to be sure he doesn't chew them anymore. I have no pork or beef and sick hubby and I aren't venturing out much. If we have to, I guess I will. It isn't really good for me to drive right now with a fever, I'm a little lightheaded . I have a small bit of leftover ground turkey from MPC. Since the others are tolerating the chicken, I will give that to them and save the Turkey for Skeeter.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 12:32:24 GMT -5
OK so, I'm feeding only Skeeter the last teensie remaining bit of MPC whole ground turkey that I have. The order was supposed to arrive today, but they're delayed AGAIN so I won't get the MPC order until tomorrow. Skeeter spilled a little of his MPC Turkey soupie and Rufus went wild - licked the spot clean. While they're all still pretty rotund with their winter fat, they have been eating a lot less since the MPC ran out. I'm going to make them a feast when the order comes in tomorrow. My ferrets are food snobs now.
Skeeter's poops have returned to normal and he let me hold him in my lap all snuggly for the last two days so I think I'll not try the nail clipping again so soon. My fever is reducing and hopefully this weekend I'll be healthy enough to do my usual weighing, pictures, etc. With being so sick, its been an effort just to get up and down my stairs to feed these guys.
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