Hi Saleena. With Dax, have you tried giving him a combination of pure pumpkin and vaseline? 1 tbsp pumpkin followed one hour later by 1/2 tsp white vaseline or lax, followed one hour later by a tbsp of pumpkin. If he doesn't have a total blockage(and you'd know if he did because he'd not be moving much at all), this combo *might* move it along. For the organs- try looking at feeding approx 2 oz liver(or one whole chicken liver) along with 2oz other organ per ferret per week. For now, go to this thread: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menu Print out that first post and use it as a guide line. Take it to the store and see how many of the various meats you can access there Then use that to design a menu However- right now I gather you are feeding soup? Just worry about the single protein for that until they are a bit further along if that's the case.
Ferrets: Contessa Kitties: Watson, Oskar DIP Sinnead, Vincent, Boris, Zeus and Athena, Willow, Mr. Frodo, Indie, Lucrezia, Judge, Odin, Miss Emily, Suki, Cody, Aristotle, Butterscotch, Frankenfurter. RIP Herne, Ligeia, and Mr. Stubbs
hello sherry, thank you for helping its greatly appreciated. Im going to stay up with him tonight when i get home from work and try this, he does move and still walks around and gets into things so im hoping we can get this threw, we did with the blanket last time.
Were still on soup, but all my organs went bad because i panicked about refreezing it because my family kept saying i cant refreeze meat, so i kept it in the fridge and it went bad so now all i have is ground pork and eggs, that was there breakfast, and i cant get to the butcher until Monday but i wont have that kind of money now that dax needs to go in, i don't think im doing the soup right, and i think dax and bubby are only eating during handfeedings, Friday is my next payday, so ill retry buying meats until i can figure out how and what to order from madcat or another type of food. I cant get to the butcher often they have weird hours and im typically at work during them. I wanted to start ordering offline but idk how to make sure im buying whats necessary for a weekly meal plan.
Okay take a big step back, and take a deep breath in! You are doing fine. The switch is a very long and involved process, and yes it is very complicated at first. But I promise you WILL get there and you WILL get it. The balance takes some time to get the hang of, but you Will get it. In time it will be so second nature that you won't even remember why it was so frustrating at first! But that is exactly why I am here, to help you learn it, and to repeat it as many times and in as many ways as you need until you feel comfortable with it yourself. You are right at the brink of the hardest part of the switch! It gets easier, I promise. You are doing just fine - hang in there! I'll be here to keep walking you through each step! **hugs**
Your babies aren't eating bone yet because they aren't at that point of the switch yet. They have to learn to crawl before they can learn to walk, and have to walk before they can run. Same for you. Same also for the new baby. You shouldn't be expecting him to eat raw soup on his own yet, he JUST started. It can take several days, even Weeks for a ferret to move from kibble soup to raw soup. And then often longer again from raw soup to raw chunks. Getting from kibble soup to the chunk phase is usually the hardest part. It takes time and patience and work. Very often it is two steps forward, one step back. That's just part of the process! And very very normal. Don't forget that your babies know when you are stressed too and will pick up on that. In the same way your positive thoughts will keep them going. Just ask Sherry! She had one of the most stubborn ferrets to ever walk the planet, but she was determined that he WOULD eat raw. It took a lot of extra time and patience, but he made it. And your babies aren't even a fraction as stubborn as him! haha They have just started, give it time.
As for right now, they can go a few days on just pork as long as it is not long term. Do not give the egg every day though or they will have horrible diarrhea. I'd keep egg to a MAX of 2-3 times a week. For storing meat, you CAN refreeze it. That being said, when you stock up on food separate it out. Buy a back of sandwich sized ziplock bags. Super cheap. Separate the meat out into small portions - Roughly what you would use in a single day, but don't stress about t being exact. You can either separate each food on its own (so say separate livers into their own bags, 1-2 livers per bag, hearts in their own bag, a small handful each, muscle meats in their own bags). OR you can separate them out by soup meals. In each bag put 1 liver, 2-4 hearts, and some meat. Remember the trick I told you about chopping the meat up? If it makes it easier for you to see it, cut everything up into almost equal pieces, like stew cube size or whatever size you want. Then count out 1 piece of liver, 1 of heart, 8 of meat per Baggie. However you decide to split it up is up to you! Then freeze the bags. Now you can take out 1-2 bags at a time to make each new batch of soup. The OTHER option to store the meat is to buy everything you need and make a great big batch of soup. Pour the soup into an ice cube tray and freeze it all into cubes. Then put the frozen cubes in baggies. Then you can thaw out however many soup-cubes at a time as you need. EITHER of these methods will reduce waste, reduce your total overall prep time (get it all out of the way at once), and reduce the number of times you need to thaw and refreeze meat.
For commercial raw. It is raw meat that is ground by a commercial company. You have to check because some grinds contain bones and organs and hearts and some do not. Cats and ferrets has almost identical nutritional requirements, so as a general rule Most things that are ok for cats are ok for ferrets. All RadCat foods should be just fine for ferrets, and all of them should be properly balanced already. If you decide to stick to commercial raw (don't worry about making any decision now, this will come a bit later - just something to keep at the back of your mind for now), you will need to always brush their teeth regularly. Ground meat has its benefits and provides most of the benefits of whole raw, but does not provide dental benefits. If you get RadCat, we can use that to make your soups with by adding a little water and blending it. Then you will know that they are getting the balance they need. From there we can continue to progress them forward into chunks. Once they are All eating chunks of meat reliably, balancing their diet becomes MUCH easier. I promise! I think that if you can get some RadCat it will be a lot easier on you, and give you both time to relax mentally and emotionally, and build your confidence back up as we continue to move forward from there. That would be my recommendation for now.
It will take at least a few days for the RadCat to get to you correct? Roughly how long will it take before you can order it and before it arrives from there? Let me know, and I can give you a suggestion on what to do in the meantime based on the length of time in between. My two thoughts right now are if it is going to only be a few days, keep giving them the pork. If it will be more than a few days, get some kibble. Give them half kibble half pork soup for one meal, and raw soup for the other. This would also give the new baby time to get used to the raw soup.
SO diet wise here are the Immediate concerns and my suggestions. Everything else we can address later.
1) Order RadCat - when can you order it? - how long will it take to ship after you order it?
2) For Now: - continue giving pork - Only give eggs about twice a week (but give the Whole egg) - consider purchasing one SMALL bag of kibble IF the RadCat will take more than a week to arrive
I will make a second post about Dax. It takes me several tries to load pages if I'm not in the right location so it takes a lot of time to make a post. I am trying to get you info in a somewhat timely manner without losing my posts. (This is why I have Sherry checking in, so if something urgent happens it won't go missed!)
Okay, for Dax. Do the pumpkin and Vaseline. If it is a partial blockage that Might push it through. I would also feed him a slightly more watered down soup to help hydrate him. The fact that he is still pooping is good. I really wouldn't assume blockage. He could have a bit of a bug going on. Didn't you say he was having off poops a week or so ago? Was it him that had red in his poop or am I confusing that with someone else? If it was him, it is possible he could have an ulcer. They are very sensitive little creatures and will pick up on your stress. Another possibility is a sensitivity to chicken causing some inflammation of his GI tract and a little nausea (would explain the gagging and pawing at mouth) since that is mostly what he has been gettin for a while. If that is the case, eating strictly pork for a little while should help to calm his system down.
I'm not ruling out a partial blockage, especially with his chewing, but I don't want to assume that is what it is either. Because he is still eating, POOPING, and he hasn't vomited. He might also have a stomach bug that could be remedied with some antibiotics.
Unfortunately with ferrets they are Very good at hiding their illness and when thy do show symptoms they are often the same or very similar for a variety of issues. For example gagging and pawing at the mouth are common symptoms of nausea or stomach pain. That can be caused by any number of issues - inflammation, stomach virus, bacterial overgrowth (btw does his poop smell extra bad? Worse than the other ferrets?), ulcer, IBD, food allergy, hairball, blockage.... Tooth grinding (look under the medical board there is a sticky wih a video of Kenai tooth grinding) is another common symptom of GI upset that can be cause by a number of underlying problems. Lethargy is a symptom of any and every health problem a ferret can have. Same can typically be said of loss of appetite.
Weight loss is the most concerning to me. This could be from stress, IBD, a bad bug, OR if he is not eating enough - which is honestly my main concern right now. If it means giving him kibble back for a few days then so be it. But you MUST be sure he is eating enough. That is the most important thing. You have been hand feeding them 2-3 times a day in addition to leaving food in the cage correct? How much does he usually eat with each hand feeding (and how many times a day)? I really have to wonder if he is eating enough and whether that might not be the source of the problem here...? Ferrets can be quite sneaky, and quite stubborn. It is possible that he wasn't ready to move to all raw soup when you ran out of kibble and it was too sudden a transition so he hasn't been eating as much as he should. Not eating enough could lead to weight loss and the small poops...
I stress again that if at any point he begins projectile vomiting it is a very serious emergency and he needs to go to a vet immediately. If he stops pooping entirely you should also consider it a serious emergency.
Hand feed him soup every few hours. Separate him from the others so you can monitor his intake and output. Try the pumpkin and Vaseline and see if that helps any. And keep us posted.
[As an aside RE the chewing, I have a feeling that when he gets to bones you will see a decrease in his pica. This isn't always the case, but in many if not most cases, it helps. I have a good feeling it will help him. You much even try puttind out some raw chicken bones later when things calm back down and see if he tries gnawing at them any even if he won't eat them yet.. Get some wings or drumsticks and cut most of the meat off (you can use the meat for soup or freeze it to be cut into slivers and chunks Later when we get to that stage). Just a thought for later. ]
Care Credit works like a credit card for your vet bills. It can be used on any vet bills - emergency or otherwise. You do have to apply (no it doesn't have to be online, you can also do it over the phone), and it IS based in credit - that's the big downfall. If you don't come up as eligible, perhaps a close family member would be willing to apply for you or even give you a small temporaryl loan.
PetAssure is super cheap and worth every penny if you can find a vet near you who accepts it. $14/mo covers 4 pets. It gives you a 25% discount on EVERYTHING in office (note IN office, so stuff you take home, like medications, are not covered. But exams, vaccines, IV fluids, surgeries, labs, X-Rays etc are all covered). The website has a page where you can search your city for a list of vets that are in the PetAssure program.
You should also ask your vet clinic about payment plan options (some few vets offer this), and whether they have any funds that help people who can't pay in emergency situations. Many vet clinics have small funds set aside for this purpose.
What state and city do you live in? I might be able to help you find some better resources.
I wanted to say to reinforce my last post a bit, that many people to through a crisis mid switch. So don't feel alone and don't feel bad. You are in the middle of the hardest, most stressful part AND your baby is sick. And money problems are never fun. To put it lightly. I've been there more times than I care to count. Hang in there! One day at a time, but breaths, and keep pushing through! It gets better, it gets easier, and you will get through this. *hugs*
You have no idea how comforting that is, lol I was in breakdown mode lastnight! thank you.
Ok deffinatley gonna get a bag of kibble, because I cant make an order or pick up meat until friday With the madcat, I wanted to try it as part of the soup stage, not permenantly I just get nervous with my proportions and madcat has everything they need right in it, so I agree that will deffinatley help. Im going to try making the soup again, that makes more sense to me when said that way, don't ask me why im hardheaded (disappointed) lol but I NEED to reroute to square one with bubby, he's very shaky and nervous so the last thing I wanna do is scruff and stuff him, he'll never trust us so I guess its a lot of lovins and kibble pork soup for a few days for everybody. I wont be home till 8pm tonight, but I will be home ALL day tomorrow, so im deffinatley going to update everybody and get some poo pics for clarity im gonna get going on the petassure, so ill pop in when I can!
I forgot I had gizzards in the freezer, they were really tough so I figured nobody would try them and stuffed em in there, I thnk ill unthaw a piece and see if dax will chew it since that's what he likes to do ill let you know, so far no worrisome calls from ma, so dax must be pooping ok ill be home at 8:15pm and ill check em out take a pic if possible and post back then
Good afternooon, haha well here's what dax left after all the pumpkin and vasilene, im guessing its not a blockage? When i picked him up yesterday tufts of fur fell out , but he seems to be ok he's roaming around with everybody right now..We have a vet visit for friday soonest i can have any sort of money and all set with pet assure that day too i need $30 dollars to start it and thats all i have till friday and they need food so thats gonna have to come first.
this is bubby, best pic i could get hes a squirmy dude lol
He's 2.0 pounds very energetic, he only eats soup handfed, he'll have kibble soup starting this afternoon along with dax unless dax shows any interest in regular soup.
Dax- 1.8 pounds doing better, actually war danced today havent seen that in a while (: playful today but thats quite an inprovement from the past few days eating pork soup today, possibly a mix of soup and kibble for a few days till he starts eating on his own again
Novak- 2.2 pounds never better getting HUGE ill post some pics in another thread of everybody, but so far novaks been loving raw eats anything you put in front of him dooks wardances pounces and tackles for hours on end hes my add baby lol
marcellus- 2.0 pounds eating well wrestles with novak and bubby, not many changes with him hes just doing his thing (:
The only problems if seen with eliminations are bubby and dax, bubby more because he's gone without kibble since tuesday, been handfed soup so small small poos versus his huge kibble ones and dax obviously, had those pumpkin and vaseline poos, been better since but havent seen him poo since yesterday ill keep an eye
I'll be picking up some meats tonight i know i can get chicken livers but hearts i cant get until tuesday is there soup all set to be meat, liver and eggshell for a 2 days? i could add some kibble to it to and grab a few wings for novak and dax
They should be okay for 2 days on that. I'd still get the kibble though. You can't expect Bubby to switch cold turkey, and Dad needs to fatten back up a bit - I'm surprised Bubby's previous owner didn't give you kibble with him. Make sure that Bubby and Dax are both eating enough when you hand feed them. Shoot for about 1/4 cup of soup per feeding if you can. Glad to hear Dax is dancing - he might have had a hairball if he is in shed. I know Koda is in shed right now and it's super early. Makes me worry we'll have an early winter! :/ When will you be able to get some kibble? Are you still ordering some RadCat on Friday? Let me know how long it will take for it to get to you once it's been ordered. Also just to be sure we are talking about the right product, you are looking at RadCat right? You keep saying MadCat... Here is their website: www.radfood.com/
Any updates? How is he doing? Did you get the kibble?
Also don't forget your weekly weigh in soon for all of them. Remember the pictures should be from straight above, with them standing on all fours. Putting some soup or ferretone or oil on a plate is a good way to keep them still long enough to get a picture.
Also because you mentioned scruff and stuff was stressful for Bubby. It should never be stressful. You don't want to build a negative association with raw. Here are a few threads you should read that you may find helpful: Proper scruff n stuff technique www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4340/scruff-stuff
Scruff n stuff a reluctant ferret - this is most useful when giving meds or feeding a sick or particularly reluctant ferret who you Really need to eat but doesn't want to eat enough on their own. It can be more stressful than regular scruff n stuff, but given Dax has been sick I wanted you to see this JUST IN CASE you need it. I hope you won't though. I think he will eat fine once you backstep a bit and put some kibble back in the mix. www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4343/scruff-stuff-reluctant-ferret
Hello, we got kibble lastnight i made soup with it and everybodies eating right on schedule got some pig bone flat things dax took one from me lastnight im hoping he'll chew it eventually lol i sent weights i just need to upload some pics ill get right on it in the morning, swear Sorry, yes i ment radcat lol i hadnt noticed i was saying that! Ill deffinatly check out the threads, thank you I have a few videos i wanna post dax was PLAYING!! i havent seen him act like that in forever im soooo happy im still bringing him in friday but to see him be his normal ferret self is just rad!
Ill have better updates in the am, had class today so feeling lazy but the boys are doing good, everybody has eaten today right to full bellies, deffinatly needed a bit of kibble a while longer.. all i can say is pheew haha
Good! Continue keeping an eye on him for a while, just in case. I'd give it about 2-3 days on the kibble soup to give him a bit of nutrition, and then start mixing in raw again. Start with 1/3 raw and see how they each do, and we will move forward from there while we wait for the RadCat to come in. And I figured you meant RadCat but I just wanted to be 100% sure that we were on the same page! Keep me posted. Glad little Dax is beginning to feel better again, perhaps he had a hairball since he is shedding. He probably just wanted some extra attention from mommy, you know how greedy the little cretins can be. I'll check in tomorrow to see how everyone is doing.