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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2013 19:44:49 GMT -5
What other meats can I try? they have tongue there but I highly doubt the ferrets will take to that right now, they had veal medallions, some duck, and whatever part of a chicken or cow you want I got overwhelmed and didn't know what to buy though so that's what I left with, if there's anything else I should be serving let me know!
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2013 0:07:28 GMT -5
The more variety the better!!!! Duck is great, it's a nice fatty meat and a source of edible bones. Beef tongue is a good muscle meat. Pork, chicken, lamb is Vey good if you can get it and get them to eat it (some ferrets really don't like it lol) it is super gentle on the belly so a good meat to have them recognize in case you ever have a ferret with GI upset, IBD, or food allergies, goat is great - very similar to lamb, veal is fine (baby cow is all veal is), turkey, pheasant, quail, rabbit is great, venison, moose, goose, fish is good in small amounts, buffalo (bison is very similar to beef), frog legs, kangaroo, rodents....you name it! Same for organs. The more types of organ you can get the better (kidney, spleen, brain, pancreas, etc), and the more sources of eat the better (beef liver, pork liver, chicken liver, etc). Kidney and brains are super good organ sources, brain is particularly nutritious and has a lot of taurine. And of course heart! The more sources of heart the better. In other words, experiment away! The more variety they get the better, and the more variety they get used to the easier it will get (usually) to introduce more and more meats. The absolute minimum is 3 proteins.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2013 8:11:53 GMT -5
now i made the soup you called for lastnight, and made 4 other meals, i blended it lastnight for dinner, what is an easy way to start introducing more solid foods? i also bought necks but should i just let novak have them since my older boys dont know how yet?
and were picking up a cinnamon on tuesday, his name is bubby from augusta, he is on kibble so we got another fuzzy to learn (: he's about the same age as novak 3-4 months which is good cuase he's to hyper for marcellus and dax lol
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2013 23:00:20 GMT -5
Aw yay! Congrats. Don't forget to post pics! He should be a fairly easy switch, the younger they are the easier they are to switch. For whole foods, you can begin to mix small slivers into the soup. Think slow and steady. Start with small slivers mixed into the soup, and gradually increase the size and number of the chunks while decreasing the amount of soup. You can thicken the soup at the same time by progressively adding less water. It takes some time for them to get used to the texture of the chunks, as well as to build up their chewing muscles. You can use any meat for the slivers/chunks. Chicken tends to be the easiest to start with. You can introduce new meats this way, or make say turkey soup instead of chicken soup and then mix chunks in from there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2013 11:19:14 GMT -5
OK, so can you refreeze there soups? because I bought in bulk and unthawed it all, and separated it into meals, but then I had a whole bowl of necks, liver, and hearts leftover, ive been feeding the necks to novak one per day with the soup, and ive been cutting the hearts up real small and adding it to the soup to make chunks, the liver I might end up having to count my losses because there's just to much, is there a limit on liver and heart they should have? Im having troubles buying the right amounts of everything, im just over-thinking lol But on a good note, ive been adding less water and making chunky soup and so far so good, honestly there eating SOOO much better now that its not just chicken I also picked up some olive oil and they love it! im gonna try dabbing it on chunks to entice my older boys Tommorow's the big day when I get him home ill send some pics!
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Post by katt on Jul 15, 2013 22:50:01 GMT -5
You can freeze the soup. Most people freeze it into ice cubes. Keeps it from spoiling and makes it easy to thaw in controlled amounts. You can give them the frozen cubes on hot days too. Soupcicles. Their overall balance should be 10% organs (half liver, half other organs), 10% heart, 10-15% bones, and the rest is muscle meats (gizzards count as a muscle meat btw). On the soup diet, if you stick to the ratios in the soup recipe I posted before they should have a good balance. As we move them onto whole foods though they will need to get balanced meals over the course of the week. To graduate from the mentoring program you will have to create a weekly menu that demonstrates the proper balance and variety. Most people feed on a two meal a day schedule, so 14 meals per week. On this routine they should be getting 1.5 meals of organ (half liver, half other organs), 1.5 meals of heart, and 7-9 meals containing edible bones over the course of each week.
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Post by katt on Jul 15, 2013 22:51:59 GMT -5
And always feel free to buy in bulk! You can freeze it for a very long time (freezer burn doesn't bother them haha) and they will eat it eventually. Buying in bulk saves money.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 8:19:11 GMT -5
ohh boyy, im like REALLLY bad at numbers and i dont know how to tell how much is what, ive been eyeballing it, * and dax wont eat unless he's handfed now, i think we might have to take a vet trip hes acting weird, he's sleeping on the couch next to me right now..thats NOT normal, i took him out to play, he went right back in, i took him back out and he went and flat ferreted in a corner, i picked him up and put him here and he hasnt moved if i get a kitchen scale, how do i measure it that way? im sorry i did read the thing, but i didnt think it was this difficult. i have today and tommorow for meals, on thursday ill regroup and re buy more meat grab a scale and try this menu thing again
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2013 9:00:08 GMT -5
OK so we got bubby yesterday he is actually 2 yrs old, handsome light tan fur with a tan sable mask he even has eyebrows lol, BUT the people who had him were a bit foolish, they did take care of him hes nice and chubby, silky coat but hes LOADED and I mean LOOAAADED with fleas, we just backward brushed his hair and 2 came out on my shirt and hand and hes full of flea dirt, poor baby all 4 now need to be combed out (headwall) hes on marshalls kibble, but arics working on introducing soup today while im at work, As for updates, not much change still eating the soup, dax is refusing to eat unless handfed still and he's lost weight im sure, the only day I can take him in is tomorrow so we'll see fingers crossed. Novak is eating chicken necks whole LOVES them, Marcellus is doing fine hes very much a loner these days, doesn't want lovins just wants to do his own thing, teenager lol. Ill post some pics tonight, and we'll be shopping for meats tomorrow ill also send pics of what we bought and how ive separated it and we can go from there I cant find a cheap scale for the life of me * And with the menu ive read sherrys posts on the amounts but 10% of this and 10% of that doesn't make sense how do I even know what percent it is? im trying to make a menu but good gosh I cant seem to wrap my head around this, were gonna be stuck on soup forever!
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Post by katt on Jul 18, 2013 0:06:36 GMT -5
OK so we got bubby yesterday he is actually 2 yrs old, handsome light tan fur with a tan sable mask he even has eyebrows lol, BUT the people who had him were a bit foolish, they did take care of him hes nice and chubby, silky coat but hes LOADED and I mean LOOAAADED with fleas, we just backward brushed his hair and 2 came out on my shirt and hand and hes full of flea dirt, poor baby all 4 now need to be combed out (headwall) hes on marshalls kibble, but arics working on introducing soup today while im at work, As for updates, not much change still eating the soup, dax is refusing to eat unless handfed still and he's lost weight im sure, the only day I can take him in is tomorrow so we'll see fingers crossed. Novak is eating chicken necks whole LOVES them, Marcellus is doing fine hes very much a loner these days, doesn't want lovins just wants to do his own thing, teenager lol. Ill post some pics tonight, and we'll be shopping for meats tomorrow ill also send pics of what we bought and how ive separated it and we can go from there I cant find a cheap scale for the life of me [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .png" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/.png"].png [/IMG]* And with the menu ive read sherrys posts on the amounts but 10% of this and 10% of that doesn't make sense how do I even know what percent it is? im trying to make a menu but good gosh I cant seem to wrap my head around this, were gonna be stuck on soup forever! [/quote] Definitely get Dax into the vet. Are you sure he has been eating enough of the soup? How much is he eating when hand fed? Is he pooping? What do his poops look like? Any other unusual behavior or symptoms? Congrats I the new addition. Unfortunately stuff like that is why quarantine is so important. :/ I can't speak too much because I don't always follow quarantine super strictly, Typically you want to quarantine a minimum of 1-2 weeks, ideally for a month. When you are at the vet ask about flea meds, they can probably give you something that will clear them up, though they may want to see all of them to give you an Rx. For now you will probably have to work on 2 different soups. If Bubby (is that his name-name or just a nickname?) will take the raw soup right away that is great, but be prepared to start from kibble soup and work your way up until he catches up with the rest. I will be good to bond with the newbie too. Have you introduced him to the others? How did that go? If not, I would wait at least a week or two, especially with Dax being unwell. As for the proportions, getting the correct percentages is super important. An imbalanced raw diet can have very bad consequences. 10% is 1/10, one tenth of the total diet. When you get up to whole meats, 10% is one and a half meals. For now, each soup day needs to be balanced. If you get a scale you can weigh it all out before making the soup. The exact weights are in the recipe. I will post it again. Soup for switch: 8oz chicken(or other meat) One half chicken liver(or 1oz other liver) 2 chicken hearts(or 1oz other heart) 1/2 tsp eggshell powder Until you get a scale, eyeballing it is fine. Buy a 1lb pack of boneless, skinless chicken breasts. 1 pound = 16 oz. So the whole pack will be a double batch. Use half the 1pb package and freeze the rest. Then use half a chicken liver, 2 chicken hearts, and 1/2tsp powdered eggshell. That's one batch of soup per the recipe above! If it helps for eyeballing it, cut everything into roughly EQUAL sized pieces. Put in 8 pieces of meat, 1 piece of liver, 1 piece of heart. And of course the calcium powder. Getting past the soup phase is the hardest part of the switch. It is normal for it to take a while. It gets a lot easier once you get on chunks. Hang in there!
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Post by katt on Jul 19, 2013 0:55:55 GMT -5
Just checking in
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 13:54:40 GMT -5
Hello, SOOOO sorry I missed you its been HECTIC over here we called the vet, we need to apply for some type of insurance because we deffinately know its a blockage, trying to work it into the next paycheck (bi weekly paychecks SUCK) we had to pay a lot of bills all at once, the meat went bad on me, so today there eating ground pork with egg and whatever I can pick up tonight, honestly im thinking of ordering frankenprey until I can get my feet back under me, im determined to keep them off kibble. They look so good! except poor dax, he is eating some, but not like the others he eats about a half a palm at a time, his poos are just little Hershey kisses lookin things, I feel like a bad ferret ma but I don't have that amount of money on hand, I have to wait for the insurance We didn't realize we should quarantine, we actually brought them to meet bubby to make shure they got along. They've all been dawned and combed, gonna try apple cider vinegar for now, doesn't seem to be escalating. He's eating ground pork and egg off my hands, sometimes from the bowl. Ill do an update on sunday, ill be at work allll day tomorrow. Thank you for the clarification, that and reading other switches is helping. Im deffinatley going to look into frankenprey though, do you know of any trustworthy websites?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 14:03:48 GMT -5
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Post by katt on Jul 19, 2013 15:14:48 GMT -5
How do you know it is a blockage? Did you do a barium x-ray series? If it is a blockage, that requires attention immediately. I suggest applying for Care Credit. Also look into PetAssure - saves you 25% on all in office costs, but it is only accepted by some vets. They have a list of vets in their program in their site so you can see if there is one near you. PetAssure has saved me Hundreds of dollars. I can't recommend it highly enough. Back to the blockage. What makes you say it is for sure a blockage? Is hat what the vet said? Did they do a barium series? If he is still pooping that means stuff is moving through. I suppose a partial blockage is possible, in which case any second it could dislodge and form a full blockage. Blockages are life threatening. If he has a full blockage he needs surgery ASAP - every minute of wait the intestines are dying and the chances of him making it through surgery drastically decrease. If he has a partial blockage I stress again it can turn into a full blockage in an instant. Vaseline (100% pure petroleum jelly) is a good laxative. It can help to push small blockages through. I would start pushing Vaseline and canned pumpkin immediately. The canned pumpkin should be 100% pumpkin, NOT pie filling. Ingredients are only pumpkin and water, nothing else. Feed him 1-2 tsp of Vaseline, (adding something tasty will help him eat it, like ferretone or salmon oil or even ferretvite), and 1-2tsp canned pumpkin alternating every few hours. So Vaseline, then a few hours later pumpkin, a few hours later Vaseline, etc. When his poop looks like Vaseline (looks almost the same coming out as it does going in, it's unmistakable) you know stuff is passing through. If at any point he begins Vomiting or he is not pooping at all, he needs to go to the emergency vet IMMEDIATELY. When either of those two symptoms occur you are talking every minute counts type of serious. How did the meat go bad, I thought you were freezing it? Meat stays good in the freezer indefinitely. You can save yourself a lot of money by only thawing out the amount you need for each day. Meat is only good in the fridge for a few days, so it is not good to keep it thawed out. Freezer burn doesn't bother ferrets in the least. Frankenprey IS raw diet. You are thinking commercial raw. Frankenprey is just imitating the proportions of whole prey using other (grocery store, etc) meats. It is what 90% of people who feed raw feed. Frankenprey, RMB, BARF, Raw Diet, is all the same thing. There's Freeze Dried Raw, Commerical Raw, Frankenprey/BARF, and Whole Prey. Many people feed a combination of the above. Commercial raw is raw pet food provided by a company. If you want to go that route I recommend Hare Today and RadCat. I can say its not going to be too much different in cost than Frankenprey though because you have to pay shipping and to make the shipping worth it you have to order in bulk. It is very convenient though, and a good way to get variety and harder to find organs and meats. If you can't offer some balance fairly soon, whether from store bought meats or commercial raw, it is better to give them kibble. Now that they recognize raw as food it is easy enough to get back to this stage. Better for them to eat sub-par food then to get serious nutritional deficiencies from being on an unbalanced diet. A little bit of imbalance SHORT TERM won't do too much damage, but too long and you are looking at serious problems developing from nutrition deficiencies. I suggest that you make a post in the ferret health board in regards to Dax. I am going to ask one of the other mentors to join me here and keep an eye on our thread because you are at a critical point right now both in the switch and with Dax and my Internet isn't very reliable out at the cabin. I don't want you to wait for answers to emergent questions if I can't find a service spot.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 16:51:51 GMT -5
I think im gonna have to bring kibble back, I haven't gone to the vet between classes and work and crappy paychecks I just cant seem to get it together, Im sure its a blockage because his symptoms match a lot of the ones given, he sleeps all day, WAS pawing at his mouth and dry heaving earlier this week, hes losing weight his hips are boney and hanging out, they said apply for care credit, which I haave to apply online does that cover emergency vets and the only day I can get him in is sunday im at work 8-8 tomorrow and aric doesn't have a lisence.. i left the organs in the fridge, thinking theyd be fine. Im starting to doubt i can handle this. I cant find steady variety of meats, then i feel like im messing up all the portions. I don't have time to sit and see who's eating how much of what i can only really know when i hand feed am and pm before and after work. Im not understanding so commercial is just a bag of raw food? Im looking for an easier way to make sure there getting all they need without having to find and prepre all sorts of random meats, because only novak will eat any sort of bone, if its harder than ground none of the older boys will eat it they spit it out and fight the whole time. I wanna cry with dax being sick, trying to catch bubby up, and trying to find all these meats im overwhelmed to the max. I have a few threads going on dax's situation idk what to say. Ill buy vasilene and pumpkin tonight when i get out ill have to do it threw out the night i wont be home to do it i can ask my ma, ill let you know. Im so sorry, when i began this i was ready i wasn't prepared for dax, im feeling real guilty about it like i could of kept a better eye but this is random when we first got them he never ate weird things. As for the foods, ill try those 2 sites, im still lost as to what to buy these websites are usually ment for cats so i never know what should or shouldn't be in it
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