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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 15:08:16 GMT -5
Good stuff!! I meant 3 different kinds of animal, not 3 different organs sorry Though three different organs is optimal as well! I hope they enjoy the beef better as well! Pork is perfectly fine to feed the critters. It's generally more fatty, and is good for putting weight on, but my boogers love it so they get it. As long as it isn't their main source, then it's all good. What cat kibble did you choose? I don't know what you're allowed to ship across the border, but I have a 3 pound bag of wysong epigen 90 that's just sitting there. Did you ever look in to the freeze dried?? I wish I were more knowledgeable as to what is available in Canada. If I cant some more spare time I'll look in to it. Try to get them used to the heart as well, since another 10%/1-1.5 meals will consist of that. Glad you went ahead and got some Definitely hammer the meat! (That sounds nice, doesn't it?) I still do it with some tougher meats that are attached to bone. I really look like a crazy mass murderer when I'm done with those haha! Keep working with the smaller pieces, and slowly tenderize them less and less until they can definitely chew on them. you can still throw a couple chunks in that AREN'T tenderized so that they can gnaw on them and help the muscles. And keep a taste for it! You can either sliver up or blend the organs and hearts in to soups. See what they'll take to and work from there. Yoiu've done really well with experimenting to see if they're ready for the next steps, so keep doing what you're doing! I constantly tried to move them along a little faster by offering them pieces and bone and what not and I think it helped. Others aren't as responsive though. Depends on the fert! Hopefully after a couple weeks, at least the BABIES will be moved up to more whole chunks and bone. If not, no big deal! They've just taken so quickly to the soup and what not that I don't see them taking long. Are they still going to the soup when they're hungry (the little ones)? Don't put kibble down for any of them unless it's absolutely necessary. I understand if Johnny and/or Kyle need something in their tummies. But keep trying to push the soup; don't give up on em I know I already asked about the freeze dried, but is stella & chewey's available there?
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 16:52:29 GMT -5
Hehe, hammering the meat does sound funny I imagine it would be a good stress reliever though! Johnny still likes the cooked turkey! He gobbled down a few huge chunks just now. There is hope for him That's good to know about the pork, I'll pick some up the next time I'm there. I'm not sure why it would be bad for dogs, someone just told me that once so I didn't do it. I chose this "biologically appropriate" grain free kibble called Orijen. It seemed the closest to Evo but it might have more fish. The pet stores around here really don't have a lot of selection. They didn't have any organ treats aside from liver, and they didn't have any commercial raw food either. I've worked in a few stores in other cities and haven't heard of stella & chewey's. I'll look online though. I'm not sure why I can't get wysong anymore. The online store that sold it to me just stopped one day and said it was due to border restrictions. I couldn't find anything online saying you couldn't pet food over the border though. Maybe if it's marked as a 'gift' it would be ok ? I'd definitely be down for sending you money if you're able to ship it here! About the organs. When they're full out eating raw and even for switching them, do you have to give just organ meals? Or would it be ok to just keep doing what I'm doing with the soup and mix organs in with other meat but keeping it at a 10% ratio? The babies won't choose soup if they can have their kibble, and they won't eat it on their own yet. I'm throwing way more out than they're eating. They all go crazy at night when I put the kibble out and for the first time since I've had them they all eat at once! They're like rabid dogs trying to gobble down the kibble. It's really frustrating having to put it out for just Kyle. For the soup, I still have to hold them. Jayden did just sit on my lap and eat it from a bowl though so it's progressing. Charlie is being difficult today. Maybe because of this huge thunder storm we're having. It's shaking all my windows! Now, with Kyle, one night a month or so ago I accidentally locked him out of his room by himself because he was hiding somewhere in the living room and I didn't do a head count (bad ferrent that night, I know (shy)). When I woke up he was waiting very patiently outside my bedroom. Anyway, he didn't have anything to eat that whole night and was just fine. Do you think I could get away with that again or should I not risk it?
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 19:49:38 GMT -5
You can work the organs in any way you wish so long as you maintain the ratios!! I usually have to mix mine in with muscle one-in meat. Sometimes they still manage to eat around the organs. If yours like organs and nothing else, I'm going to make you a trophy!! Haha! I checked with the other mentors since most of them are in Canada and they said mailing the food shouldn't be a problem, if you're comfortable with giving me your address so let me know if you want the food! I am also fine with ordering it for you and shipping it to you if Kyle proves to be too stubborn for raw (though I'm sure e can find SOMETHING raw that he likes so he at least gets a little bit of benefit from it). Poop. On the phone it won't let you reply and scroll back up to read what you wrote. Please hold. I'm going to send this thru and I might come back with more after I read again!! Oh and the cooked chicken is fine I think. As long as their isn't seasoning or preservatives.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 20:07:30 GMT -5
I just asked my boyfriend and he said it depends on what kind of pork when it comes to dogs. He said raw pork shouldn't hurt. It's still high in fat and salt though. He said he used to feed his dog a bunch of pork right before winter bc it made him put on a good coat. Just don't want to over feed it bc of the fat content. Same with ferrets pretty much. Don't want to feed it a whole heck of a lot, but every now and then is ok. And just like humans, animals usually love junk food haha!!!
If Stella and chewy's is not available, look in to other brands you find. If you want to send me the brands you have access to, ill be happy to look everything up on them and consult with the others to see what is the best option.
You mentioned not wanting to starve the babies just because Kyle and Johnny aren't as open to it. What you might want to do is, put Johnny and Kyle in a different room with kibble if they've gone a long time without eating. I hate to risk it, especially since they're a little older. Leave the soup with the youngsters, and go in the room with Johnny and Kyle. Just put a little bit of kibble out and concentrate on getting them to eat the soup. Just do whatever you can/what you feel comfortable with, and if at the end of it you feel they need to eat something, relinquish the kibble to them. You definitely want to make sure they have something in their tummies! But if you continue to just let them eat kibble as soon as they want it, they're going to learn quickly that they'll get it if they wait long enough. Just keep an eye on them and if it has been too long since they last ate, let them have a little. First try showing them the kibble in your hands and letting them sniff it, and then put some in the soup. Even if you have to out a couple pieces with some soup in a spoon and see if they eat it that way. You could even try hand feeding pieces of kibble and while their chomping on it, dab some soup on their noses/tongues. Try whatever way you want to intigrate it. It will take some time but I promise we will make it work!
The girl who got me in to ferrets and on to this forum actually still to this day has to let one of her children sit in her lap for organ soup. Some will only take organ in soup form. So obviously with organs you have to be a bit more patient/inventive.
I've rambled. We are sitting outside on the porch enjoying the breeze and a couple of beers (don't I sound Texan haha!) so I just started thinking of stuff. Hope I'm not overwhelming you. Just want to give you ideas. I'd definitely separate them at eating time though if the babies are even somewhat taking to the soup.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 20:09:28 GMT -5
Oke more thing! How long are you waiting before you toss the soup? If they go to sleep you can stick it back in the fridge/freezer and it will last longer. Of course you don't want to do that with the same bowl for a week or anything, but it might help with the waste. You probably already knew that though
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 20:11:21 GMT -5
GAHHHH something else I was going to ask. You can use amazon in Canada can't you? That's usually where I ordered wysong from. And also Stella and chewy's. I don't know what the shipping costs would be for you, but if you haven't already, it's definitely worth looking in to!
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2013 21:16:47 GMT -5
Thank you!!! I'll PM you my address, just let me know how much shipping is and if you want something for the kibble too! That's very nice of you ! That sounds nice sitting out on the porch. The weather has been so crappy/cold this past week up here So far no one has touched the new kibble I've tried to offer so I'm getting a little worried. I'm such a softy with these guys, it's so hard to say no to them and let them go hungry. They already know that they outnumber me and I expect them to all go on a hunger strike together if I'm not nice haha. I'm not so worried about Johnny not eating. He's a tough boy and can take it, I just don't want to kill Kyle! They're definitely already learning that I'll cave eventually with the kibble. They already wait at night to get it. I won't stay up all night again, but maybe soon I won't give them kibble overnight and wake up earlier to feed them. I'll be tougher with them! Or at least I'll try to be I've been leaving less kibble overnight and it's been licked clean every morning. I leave the soup out until it gets semi-dry and gross. I know it's not going to kill them, heck, my dogs bury bones and then eat them months later covered in maggots and nothing has happened yet! They all eat from my hand so that's a really good suggestion for when to try the soup. I'll give it a go! I have absolutely no problem feeding them on my lap, I think it's really cute. I thought about separating them overnight and alternating who gets locked in the cage with Kyle so that no one is ever alone. It won't help Kyle, but it might get the other three going. I do use Amazon but they won't ship the wysong to me. It will let me put it in my cart and almost check it out but then at the last step it says there's and error and that it can't ship to my address. I've tried a handful of websites and none will ship here. I don't know if other food will work though, somehow I doubt it. I hope I covered everything! I didn't get a chance to make the beef soup tonight but I have ground beef thawing and I'll do it tomorrow. Wish me luck!! I think I'll die a little on the inside if they do end up liking the organs. It would be a very Kyle thing to do!
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Post by Sherry on May 29, 2013 0:05:47 GMT -5
Sorry to interrupt here Stuvix, you can order that from Casey's Hidden Pantry and have it delivered to Canada no problem Just make sure to order enough to make the shipping worth while
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 8:21:12 GMT -5
Hey Sherry, they're the ones that told me about the "border restrictions" I've been ordering from them for over a year up until a few months ago. I would order almost $200 at a time so if that's now worth while I don't know what is!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 8:22:06 GMT -5
*not worth while
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 8:41:45 GMT -5
I just tried again and it still says that they won't ship to someone without a U.S. Paypal account. Thanks though!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 9:14:55 GMT -5
I asked Sherry to look over this thread to make sure I'm not steering you wrong or anything. The following is the input she had/has:
"Cooked chicken- snacks only unless being used as a transition tool. Pork is an excellent protein but check for "flavor enhanced". I use it as a regular menu addition. And fat is an essential component. Ferrets need a much higher fat content, up to about 30% of the muscle meat can be fat"
So there ya go! Pork away! haha!
Maybe see what they do with the raw beef as well. Keep encouraging the chewing but still work with the soup.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 9:34:37 GMT -5
I haven't given cooked chicken to Johnny since he was only a few months old, so it's definitely just a treat. I also wanted to see if he would try it again. He was the only one who would take it! It might help transition him, but I'll save that for after he willingly eats some soup.
Thanks for checking with Sherry. I'm glad about the pork, that makes three sources of muscle and organ meat easily available! I'm not having any more luck with the beef yet, but I'm going to try it more throughout the day.
I ground up the last bit of Evo I had and made it into mush with water. Kyle went nuts for it which leads me to believe that he's not eating this new stuff. So I mixed it in with some soup and he did eat a little until he realized what I was doing. I set it down in front of him and went to find Johnny. When I got back Jayden and Charlie were stuffing their faces and had gobbled down all the kibble-soup, which was an ice-cube amount. I don't think Kyle had any more. I only have about half a cup of the Evo-mush left so I'm going to be mixing that in with the soup until I run out.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 9:41:54 GMT -5
Whatever it takes to get them started at least nibbling at it!
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 15:00:56 GMT -5
Johnny finally caved!!! He licked a bunch from my fingers just now and seemed to enjoy it!! (dance)
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