Stuvix's Switching Thread/HurricaneKatt

[Heather]

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
- From my the owner of a horse stable who fed her 12 dogs a natural diet. I was convinced to make the switch for my pups and they have never been healthier. When adopting my first ferret I had intended to feed him raw but it just didn't work out at the time. I always knew kibble wasn't the ideal diet for any animal. After all, do we humans live off cereal?

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
- Ideally I would love to feed whole prey (mice, rats, chicks, etc.) as my older boys LOVE getting live mice to catch and kill even though that's all they do with them. I will hopefully be feeding pre-killed prey as I hate watching the poor little guys get slaughtered by my boys. The squeaks are heart wrenching! I will settle for making my own diet though as that is what I have done for my dogs. Also I'd like to switch fully to raw.

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
- I want my boys to live the healthiest and longest life they can. As simple as that! I know they'll love it once they try!

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
- Yes I am. I want the best for these guys and now that their favourite (and healthiest) kibble is no longer available to me I have no choice but to make this switch. This was the push I needed to finally make the switch.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
- I have four wondrous kids, all male. The babies, Charlie and Jayden, are 10 months. Johnny is 3 years, Kyle is 5. Kyle has low blood glucose and a rat tail. Everyone else is in perfect health. I weigh them all every month and have weight charts for the last 3 years. All are in pristine condition! Well, Jayden is a tiny little fellow, but I don't believe he is underweight. I adopted Kyle when he was 6 months old, the rest I got when they were 8 weeks old.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
- Kibble and the last bag I can get of Wysong Archetypal I (which only Kyle won't eat). They are fed only Evo as it's the only grain free kibble I can find now that I can't order Wysong. They were on a mix of Wysong Epigen 90 and Evo.
Kyle and Johnny only get PureBites freeze dried chicken as treats even though they do like the Marshall treats. Jayden will only eat Marshall chicken and bacon treats. Charlie doesn't like hard treats. They all like Ferretone (50:50 tone and extra virgin olive oil) and Ferretvite (occasionally). I know it's bad, but they do get the occasional lick of ice cream. But I can't stress occasional any stronger. Johnny used to enjoy some cooked chicken when he was a kit, but not anymore.

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
I tried when they were young, they simply refused. I again tried yesterday by mixing ground meat with their kibble but no one even gave it a lick. I was able to get Charlie to swallow a tiny chunk of ground beef smothered in Ferretvite last night, I was so proud!

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
- I recently left my third year of University studying Wildlife Biology. I just wasn't enjoying the experience anymore. Animals have always been the most important aspect of my life and I will always strive to learn what is best for my four legged family. They are free roam, only locked in their bedroom overnight or when I am not home.

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
- Basically unlimited!

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Rinrose) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. Also note there may have been some changes in the application and how you should post so please review these before proceeding. If you have any questions feel free to either ask your mentor or any of the admins. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[Deleted]

Hi there! I'm Lauren! I'm excited to begin working with you, and am happy you decided to make the switch to raw! I've seen such a change in my babies since switching them, and I can't wait for you to witness the same benefits!

It sounds like you're already pretty familiar with raw feeding, given you switched your dogs. Do you have any questions you would like answered before we dive in?

You said you are currently feeding kibble. Do you leave it out all day/night, or do you have them on a schedule? Also, do you already know what you can readily buy from the grocery store, etc near you?

[Deleted]

To continue from our messages...

This is the "recipe" that we generally encourage to start off with soup:

8 oz chicken (or other meat)
1 Chicken liver (or 2 oz other liver)
2 Chkn hearts (or 1 oz other heart)
1/2 teaspoon eggshell powder

It provides for one balanced meal. You won't be using this concoction once you get to whole pieces, but to start trying to get them to eat it, this is the best to start with.

What method were you using a couple years ago when you first started trying to switch them over? Did you just put it down and wait for them to eat? Sometimes you have to use a little more force, as you said you tried with the whole pieces - try hand feeding and what not. When I very first introduced it to mine, I would put some on their noses so that they would lick it off. After that I had to resort to "scruff-n-stuffing." Since some of your boys are older, they are most likely going to be more stubborn, so you may have to resort to this. Let's see what they do on their own first, though! You may have to throw in some kibble at first to kind of "ween" them off.

Also, when you first tried the soup approach, was it completely liquid? If they don't seem to like that, maybe try a thicker consistency. Mine preferred the "mush" more than the soup, once they finally chomped down on it

[Deleted]

I'm glad you gave me the link to this, I never would have found it! First to answer your original post, I free feed my guys and they have it all day/night. The group never eats together, I only ever see one eating at a time. I'm a little worried about how I'll know if everyone is eating, especially overnight. Thankfully they pretty much all play together in the morning and at night, which is when I intend to feed them. I actually don't know where to get organ meat yet. The meat I get for my dogs only comes in large quantities and my Dad has taken over the job of packaging it up into smaller portions because I now live about an hour away. I'm going to the grocery store near me tomorrow to find out if they can supply the organ meat. I really hope they do!

The soup was more on the liquid side when I first tried it. It was given to me by the shelter I got Kyle from. I used a syringe to get into their mouths, slowly, not squirting it like I would with medication. They would just shake/spit it out.

Kyle was practically traumatized from having to give him medicine using a syringe. The poor boy would run away when he saw me go for the ferretone bottle for weeks after he was done his meds because I would always give that before/after the medicine. So I don't want that to happen again!

When Kyle and Johnny caught the flu together they both stopped eating. The vet gave me this canned food that they both went crazy for which helped them through until they felt better. So at least I know they will eat food other than kibble.

I'm definitely going to have to do S'N'S with them, but I will try putting it on their noses first to see if they lick it off. It's kinda weird, but with Jayden I'll sometimes stick my tongue to his nose to force him to give me a kiss. The other three do it willingly . Kyle even knows the word "kiss."

My only real worry is that I won't be able to get Kyle to make the switch, forcing me to leave kibble out all the time. I'm not comfortable locking him up by himself in a cage while the others run free. It just wouldn't be fair and would stress him out.

[Deleted]

Aww mono wouldn't suggest sequestering him lol! Poor guys sound like they've been through a lot with bugs and medicine!

Just see what you can find at the grocery store and let me know if they are super stubborn with the switch, we may end up trying what I had to with mine, but ill explain that later if it comes to it. It'll kind of address your worries about knowing who is eating what, though. Just not going to over load you with a bunch of stuff just yet.

One thing you could try to get them used to either watery soup or mushy soup is go ahead and start blending their kibble with some water. I'm sure they'll do fine with the texture, though. Just have to get them used to it again so that they don't automatically start thinking you're trying to medicate them as soon as you slap different down

So get back with me after your grocery store trip and we will go from there! And you may already know this, but just double check all packaging to make sure it isn't injected with saline or any preservatives. If you have any questions let me know!

[Deleted]

Kyle has only been sick that one time, but boy did he hate that medicine. Poor Johnny got sick during each flu season so far, so I'm going to have to take extra precautions next time.

Before I go to the store, what about chicken gizzards? For my dogs, I get 20 lb boxes of ground gizzards which include the heart/liver.

Also, what does a ferret's poop look like on a raw diet? With the dogs, theirs dries out completely in the sun (and turns white) and can simply get broken up and raked into the grass. It also doesn't smell as bad.

[Deleted]

Good news! They had good organ meat I'm going to make some eggshell powder shortly and then make up some soup. I think I'll err on the mushy side for now, it'll be easier to water it down later if I have to.

[Deleted]

Yeah the mushier, the easier it is to store it if you make it in bulk. It was for me, anyway! You can also freeze it and give it to them frozen.

Gizzards are fine, they count as muscle meat. YOu want to find a good variety, though, as far as source goes (chicken, turkey, beef, pork, lamb, etc). At least 3, preferably more, but we will work with what you can find!

Link is a good poop chart to reference: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2469 When they eat organs, it's a little messier (and stinkier). But for the most part, their poops are as you described your dog's. Keep in mind that when they first start switching, though, there will be a period where it will smell worse before it gets better! It's completely normal and to be expected

What all are you putting in the soup, exactly?

[Deleted]

OOPS wrong chart!! here's the one I meant to post:

www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2469/poop-chart

[Deleted]

Excellent chart! We animal lovers sure are odd lol!

I'm following the recipe you gave me with ground turkey. But I didn't know the gizzards would count as muscle meat so I'm going to substitute some turkey for that. They came with the hearts. In the future I will be able to get occasional beef tripe. And I'll definitely mix up the meats, my dogs get just about everything other than pork. I washed some eggshells, baked them, and then ground them up to a powder. I'm just waiting for my turkey to thaw. I also got some ice cube trays to freeze the soup which I'll grease with a little olive oil.

What are your thoughts on re-freezing meat? I've always been told not to do it but I don't think it would cause any problems.

[Deleted]

Good news and not good news. Good news first: Jayden actually liked the soup!! (dance) I used the S'N'S and he swallowed it like a champ. He then had some all by himself! Charlie and Johnny both swallowed it too, but neither enjoyed it. Kyle on the other hand...oh boy. He ran away so fast. First, with all of them, I put in on their nose like you suggested but it didn't work, they just shook it off. P. So I tried it with my finger. Charlie and Jayden at least licked it, but Johnny and Kyle turned their heads. So I went the syringe route. As with the medicine, Kyle struggled as soon as I scruffed him and brought it near his face so I stopped right away...and he ran. Everyone else swallowed with no spitting or shaking.

I also broke my Magic Bullet making the soup haha, so I'm going to buy a blender or food processor tomorrow.

What should I do with Kyle? And what is the process of getting these guys to eat the soup?

[Deleted]

Someone else might pop in if I am wrong, but I re-freeze mine all the time and it's been fine. Though I don't let it completely defrost and sit out for days on end and THEN referee it. I defrost it just enough to cut it up enough for their meals and stick the remainder back in the freezer until I need more.

You can try seeing how they react to a piece of frozen turkey if you want, since you are waiting for it to thaw. Just chop some off and put it down. Mine like to lick on it for a while.

[Deleted]

Woops sorry the 2nd response didn't come up on my phone last night before I responded to you.

I suspected Kyle would run. Try a couple more times and see what happens. Work with the others as well and see if any further progress can be made. Can't give up after just one shot Does he ever let you hold him in a certain position or anything? As in, is there another way you could hold him aside from scruffing so that he might be more open to having new food presented to him? You may also want to try the frozen with him - see if he is less threatened by that.

And yay for the others eating it!! (giggle)

[Deleted]

Kyle is a big cuddly suck normally. But as soon as he knows what I'm up to he freaks out. I might try putting some ferretone on his belly and then sneaking the soup in. I'm also thinking of taking their food from their room and putting it where I can see it so that I can catch them eating and try then. That way I know that they're hungry. Kyle loves ice cubes so I think he might just try some frozen meat. I'll give it a go later this afternoon. I'm glad you haven't had any issues re-freezing the meat. I really have no other choice with all this extra organ meat but to freeze it to use later and then re-freeze it once it's made into a meal.

I managed to get Jayden and Charlie to lick some off a spoon this morning with some ferretvite on top. Again, Jayden was the most responsive. Johnny wouldn't budge so I just ended up scruffing him. I used ferretone for Kyle and he wouldn't lick it either and has been hiding ever since I put more on his nose lol.

[Deleted]

Let me know if the ice cubes/frozen works for Kyle! If we can't get any of these techniques to work, then over the weekend if you will be home a majority of the time, we will try something else. Try not to use too much ferretone, as you don't want them to start eating the raw only b/c they think they are going to get the treat. Also, I once gave my brats too much and it made for fun poo to clean up for a day or two

Refreezing meat isn't as issue at all, as long as it's done in reasonable time as I said before. That's how most of us here do it!

Your older ones are more likely to be more stubborn and take more time, so don't worry or try to rush anything. We will keep working with them until they give up and eat! Will you be able to get any other ograns?