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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 18:01:03 GMT -5
Well, I'm shocked and delightfully happy. Charlie and Johnny both ate bone!!! Johnny ate over half of a wing tip, the tip was about an inch long! I scruffed him and held it in his mouth and he chewed away!! Charlie took a couple of them into the feeding den and munched!! Happiest sound/sight ever (even if he didn't eat much). I don't think Jayden can get through them just yet, he was gently nibbling on one while scruffed but didn't get through it. Kyle gagged but chewed on one. Like Jayden, he couldn't (or wouldn't) get through it. SO HAPPY! It was brief, but a step in the right direction!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 13:10:20 GMT -5
Everyone is taking to bone very quickly The three had about two wing tips each this morning. Johnny and Charlie even did it by themselves (mostly Charlie there in the pic). They didn't eat them overnight though. Baby steps I bought some more chicken wings today and I picked up some turkey backs. I might try smashing them up. I've been bad and have been giving them a little FDR. Only about half of what I'd normally give them. They still like the bones though, I think they like the crunch and if I play tug of war it entices them to chew more and take it on their own. Honestly, I'd be perfectly content to feed them wet FDR with some meaty bones as a supplement throughout the week.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 11, 2013 8:48:02 GMT -5
The problem with doing the FDR along with chicken wings, etc is that they don't get enough variety in their diet. yes, the FDR does have some lamb and mussel, however it IS primarily chicken. Okay, since they ARE willing to eat bones now, for the interim let's try FDR in the mornings, and in the evening try 2 days bones, 3 days muscle(lamb, pork, turkey, goat, beef), and on the other day heart/liver. You will likely have to puree this and add 1/2 tsp heavy cream or goat's milk to act as a lure.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 9:21:48 GMT -5
You're right, of course. Most importantly is that if this company ever decides to stop producing the food or I otherwise couldn't get it...I'd be screwed. I don't have a back-up for FDR. It will be best to have them used to real meat. I did buy some of the dog venison for a little variety. It has 5.6% fibre from the veggies BUT I won't be feeding it by itself. I'll be mixing it with either ground meat, or the cat FDR so that will increase the proportion of meat and lower the fibre. Hope it's OK. If not, my dogs will get a special treat.
I'm going to the grocery store tomorrow so I'll pick up some ground meats and heavy cream or goat's milk. I already have organs. I tried chopped up chicken wings last night (the whole wing) and Charlie would stash the larger pieces but I don't think he ate any. Jayden can only get through the very end of the tip so far but Johnny and Charlie are eating the entire tip by themselves.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 12, 2013 8:01:18 GMT -5
No, even as a once a week thing it's fine Okay, for Kyle getting some ground would be a good step. With the other three, it would be a step back. Personally I'd stick with cutting up pieces. They know how to chew now, so let them. Also try adding in some new proteins. Pork and turkey or cornish hen are the next usual ones.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:14:01 GMT -5
Ok, so turns out they weren’t eating the entire tips by themselves. Johnny and Charlie will eat the entire tip but I have to hold it for them. Charlie absolutely loves them, they’re almost at treat status now! Johnny needs to be scruffed to finish off the larger part of the bone but he gets through it. Jayden still just eats the very tip of the bone. I don't need to coat them in FDR dust anymore I’ll forego the ground meat then, I was going to mix the organ with it but I suppose the FDR would be better for that. I couldn’t find the cornish game hen the last time I was there so I’ll ask someone about it. I also have some pork which they didn’t like before but they might be more willing to try it now. I'm really considering leaving Kyle alone and letting him have the kibble. This is really stressing him out to the point where he won't come out of his room at all because he knows I'm just going to force raw in his mouth. If I give the FDR overnight, the other boys won't touch the kibble. He's not sick or anything, he's just refusing to come out of the room to play during the day.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 12, 2013 19:58:45 GMT -5
Okay, for now let him be. Let's get the others switched then we can work on him. And hopefully them switching will help convince him
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 14:21:01 GMT -5
I didn't post yesterday because it was my birthday, enough said.
Anyways, I smashed up some chicken wings yesterday morning and Charlie and Johnny ate practically the whole wing. Jayden is still having some issues with the bones but he'll eat the wing tips if I hold them for him.
I am feeding FDR every night, so I'll be adding organ in with it starting tonight. I'll start with one pureed heart and go from there once they've accepted the small change.
I must say, we are moving at a slow pace but it's a pace that we're all comfortable with. If I push them too fast and too hard they won't go for it, and then I'm forced to throw out a lot of expensive food. I know my weasels well, and I know how they react to drastic changes in their food. This isn't a race, you even said a few posts ago on the 12th "let's try FDR in the morning." I just decided to do it overnight so I can be there when they eat raw during the day.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 15, 2013 15:13:24 GMT -5
As you said- you know your weasels. I was just surprised to read they are back on the FDR daily. But this switch is up to you and what you want to do. Let me know how they do!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2013 8:53:56 GMT -5
I cut their FDR in half, they only get it overnight now. Once they're eating the organ meat well I'll reduce that further.
The three boys couldn't even tell there was heart in there last night. As soon as I set it down, all three were chowing down and it was empty this morning. So that was 1 chicken heart in about 6oz of FDR soup.
This morning, I've had Jayden eat 2 wing tips (almost completely) and Johnny and Charlie are finishing up their whole (lightly smashed) wings. Those wings were 1.3 and 1.4oz.
Tonight I'll put two hearts in with their dinner.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 16, 2013 8:56:01 GMT -5
Sounds good
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Post by katt on Aug 17, 2013 3:30:45 GMT -5
Hey Rory! I am going to be stepping in for Sherry, she has a lot on her hands right now. Would you mind giving me a quick update so I know where you are at right now? What are your babies each eating, when, how much, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 8:06:07 GMT -5
Hey Katt Here's the breakdown. I hope I don't miss anything. Kyle is eating Orijen kibble. This switch put a lot of stress on him so I've stopped for now. I give him kibble overnight and during the day he gets some when he's hungry in the kitchen. The other three (Johnny, Charlie, and Jayden): First I'll go into what they eat. Feline Natural FDR. Ingredients are Chicken, Lamb Heart, Lamb Liver, Lamb Kidney, Green Lipped Mussel. They're eating chicken wings as well now, and I'm getting some heart into their diet. They get reconstituted FDR overnight because they like it more than kibble and won't touch Kyle's kibble if it's left out. I weighed it the other night and it's about 6oz. In the morning, Johnny and Charlie will eat a whole chicken wing each (about 1oz). I have to smash up the humerus and ulna bone but they can get through the others fine. They don't yet like the meatier parts. They prefer the crunchy bone. Jayden is still iffy when it comes to bones. He's the smallest out of the four and he has a tough time getting through anything other than the tip. He'll eat most of the tip if I hold it for him but he's getting there. Last night, and the previous night, I put pureed heart into their FDR. Last night I put two chicken hearts in and they gobbled it all up. I'm going to try liver tonight and I have some turkey necks to try tomorrow morning.
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Post by katt on Aug 17, 2013 13:14:08 GMT -5
Okay well the first thing we have to do is get Kyle back on board. He has had some time to destress and now he can get back at it. The key is to go VERY slow and steady. As long as you continue to have kibble and FD out during the night they are never going to get them onto a full raw diet. So back to basics. First thing is I want you to make a kibble only soup for Kyle. Let the kibble soak in warm water for a few minutes to soften or it will kill your blender. Then blend it up with some more water until it is a nice pudding like consistency. Hold him in your lap and let him lick some off of your finger, or when they are out playing grab him whenever he runs by and dab a little on his nose. Because he is eating the dry kibble he should have absolutely no problem with the kibble soup. Let me know how he takes to it. For the others, we need to try to get them off of the FD. Unfortunately, the stuff is like ferret crack - very addictive. I want you to try soup instead, but we will do it gradually. You will be needing some in a while anyways, so just make a nice batch of the raw soup (recipe below) and freeze it into ice cubes. Then you can thaw out just what you need at any point in time. Soup: 8oz meat (boneless skinless chicken breasts work great - easiest on the blender) 1 oz heart 1 oz liver 1/2 tsp powdered eggshell Make the soup with JUST raw meat, nothing else yet. I want you to try drizzling a little soup onto their meats - think of it as gravy - instead of the FDR. If they won't eat that, then mix a tiny FDR into the soup too, and we will gradually replace the FDR with soup. I would like to see them getting the soup at night soon too instead of the FDR. One step at a time though. Tonight try kibble soup with Kyle - my understanding is he was taking it okay before raw was added, so he should have no problem with it. As soon as you can make the raw soup (tomorrow morning would be ideal, try the gravy method for their day-time meats. We'll see how that goes and go from there!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2013 21:15:12 GMT -5
Sorry, but I'm not going to try again with Kyle for now. He's just starting to come back out of his room to play. Forcing food into him is too stressful to him, he's very sensitive. This is just like our experience with medicine. It took weeks for him to trust me again. He stopped trusting the kibble soup after I had put raw in it. He's a smart little bugger. He would eat it overnight, but I no longer plan to switch him in the near future. He won the battle, he's a spoiled little brat and I'll freely admit that his will is stronger than mine. I'll start reducing the FDR more (we're already down to less than half from a week ago). I have tons of soup in the freezer but I'm hesitant to go back to it. That's a huge step backwards when they're making so much progress. From not eating anything but FDR to eating chicken wings and heart in about a week. I agree that I need to get them off the FDR binge but only because the chance of me running out before more arrives is too high. Everyone here makes it sound so unhealthy. I don't really understand other than the fact that it's slowing down progress. I did soup for over two months with little progress, this is the best they've done so far. Soup won't entice them to eat, it will only deter them. They're accepting organ in their FDR for the first time and they're accepting the whole chicken wing. I'm doing something right for that to happen. Why would I want to change what I'm doing when we're finally getting somewhere so quickly? I don't mean to sound so resistant to suggestion but I really think we're on the right path. I may not have any experience feeding ferrets raw, but I've been feeding raw for almost a decade to over a dozen dogs and some barn cats. I've seen stubborn animals and have witnessed them progress. These ferrets may give them all a run for their money being stubborn but the same basic rules, and the same signs of success/failure apply. Please feel free to chew me out, I know I can be difficult .
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