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Post by Heather on Feb 14, 2011 23:22:41 GMT -5
Name: Karen HF Forum Username: zombieferrets 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I do believe it was on the original HF forum! 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I think just basic raw for now. 5/6 of mine will eat it so we'll start with that. If I could do some whole prey someday that would ROCK!
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
Mainly because it's the best stuff out there. I've been giving it to them kinda as a supplement for a whole but my 6 year old girl isn't good at free-feeding on the kibble and is probably almost a pound overweight so I decided now would be a great time to get them on raw! also I'm out of work so, hey, might as well use the time as best I can!
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
Definitely!
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?
I'm at 5 ferrets at the moment. Percy, Mitchell, Myra, Mushu, and Farris. Percy is 5, Mitchell is 2, Myra is 2, Mushu is 3, and Farris is 6. Myra and Farris are female and the others are male. Mushu's adrenal and has a suprelorin implant. Farris is overweight.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
They're on a mix of kibbles which includes Fromm, Performation, Acana, and some Ziwipeaks. For treats they get ferretone, hairball malt, duck jerky, N-Bones, My Mighty Lion, and then a mix of Nature's Variety raw chicken (at the moment) with canned food - usually Evanger's.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
Attempted at one point but it wasn't a good time and I stopped.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
Uhmmm, hi?
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Alllll the time!
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Feb 15, 2011 5:19:43 GMT -5
Hi! Here's just a little about me... Name: Katt HF Screen Name: HurricaneKatt Location: Anchorage, Alaska About Me: My favorite hobby is... studying. Just kidding. I like to do different types of art including drawing and painting. I recently started making dream catchers too. I enjoy horseback riding, playing with my critters, and enjoying time with my boyfriend. And the critters of course! I am a premed student in Alaska graduating this May 2011 with a Biology degree. I’ll be taking a year off to enjoy myself, work on my application, and visit Africa before applying for Medical School in the next round. I became a mentor because...I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, not quite a year old (was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009), Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first, and so far only, ferret and though I have not had him long he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several rubber objects (had to have surgery!), and is constantly finding new trouble to get into. Loves digging the carpet up, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is anal around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… We recently discovered that he has IBD and I am actually working with Mustelidmusk on adjusting his diet to keep his belly aches under control. Sometime this winter I plan on getting a second ferret, I am just waiting until the right one comes along, and fidgeting with Koda's diet in the meanwhile. Kenai: I JUST brought Kenai home a few months ago. He was also immediately put on 100% raw diet, whole prey, franken prey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now 3 pounds! He is a...mutt I guess, I call him a silver mitt, because he technically meets the standards for it I think, but he is a bit dark looking some days. haha He is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Right now he gets mainly lamb, rabbit, and rodent because of his IBD, but we are working on adding different meats back into his diet one at a time. I still consider myself fairly new to raw diets compared to a lot of the other people on this forum who have been doing this for years. However, I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. Koda is healthy (other than his IBD), energetic, has super soft fur, and smells so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed him with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! Kenai just started on raw and is much pickier than Koda. I can already see the benefits of the good diet in him too. When he first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poop smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and is improving each day. His coat is absolutely luxurious, and he is a complete porker! Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help a ton there on picking a good kibble… but hopefully we can get rid of it entirely anyways. My Specialty: Trouble makers! Especially only ferrets, and kits. Doing a big group like yours will be a new experience. I am looking forwards to it!
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Post by katt on Feb 15, 2011 5:32:36 GMT -5
Ok, so now to business. Let's start with a basic feeding schedule. How do you feed right now? The more detail the better. Do you feed twice a day? For limited times or do you free-range feed? Separate feedings, or all together? Etc. Also, you will want to start with soup. To make the soup you will need: kibble, raw boneless, skinless chicken breast or tenders (skin makes it hard to blend), canned pumpkin, water. If they will take it like that, awesome, if not then you might need to get some all meat, or meat and squash/sweet potato baby food. Mix all of the ingredients up, with just a little pumpkin, and more kibble than chicken to start. Or as much as you think they will eat. Add water until it is a consistency that you like. First try to get each of them to eat the soup. You might have to start by getting them to lick it off of your finger, then from a spoon, then the bowl, etc. Some will probably take to it faster than others. Once they will eat it, pour it over the kibble like gravy. Start there and let me know how they all do. Then we will remove the kibble and just feed the soup. When they are eating just soup, we will decrease the kibble, and increase the chicken and gradually thicken the soup, until it is basically just pureed chicken. Then we add tiny chunks, then bigger chunks, then use the soup as gravy on the meat chunks, then remove the soup. When they are eating just chunks, we gradually start mixing in bigger chunks, bones etc. Along the way, we will add in more proteins, organs, and then whole prey. Let me know if you have ANY questions along the way.
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Post by zombieferrets on Feb 15, 2011 18:38:31 GMT -5
Hi Katt!! Yay, I'm so excited to finally get going on this!! Okay, first of all I've been using the Nature's Variety raw medallions and mixing in some wet food. I started with chicken and recently bought some Bison and Lamb as well. The only one in my house so far that will consistently eat the raw is my 16 year old kitty, Precious. She loves it and is happy to eat it no matter which flavor and whether I mix in wet or not. Everyone else...well, they're not being quite so co-operative. As for feeding schedule: well, right now I'm off work so I've been staying up until 3:00AM and sleeping in until 12:00-2:00PM. that doesn't work so well for raw feeding so I'm going to have to fix up my schedule. What I've been trying to do is have fresh raw out for them when I'm here and if I'm out or sleeping I get some new raw or freshen up what they haven't eaten and put it in their cage. Unfortunately even with totally fresh raw and no kibble I still find the dish full the next day. I have wasted soooo much raw and with how pricey it is it's really getting frustrating. When they will eat raw it seems to be only the chicken mixed with wet food that they like. Everyone except Mushu will eat a bit out of the dish (at least they used to!) as long as it's the chicken. This was before I started trying to feed them raw all the time. Now they just keep refusing it for the most part. The only way I can get most of them to eat it now is to get them to eat it off my fingers. With 5 ferrets that takes a while, and I'm not sure if they're getting enough food and that worries me. Do you think mixing in crushed up kibble would help them to eat it? Mushu will eat the raw as long as I have it on my finger but I haven't seen him eat it on his own. He's adrenal so I really don't want him losing more weight but at the same time I hate the idea of having to have him in the top portion of my FN142 and everyone else in the bottom so he can have kibble. When I try to give them both options, though, everyone usually goes for the kibble. Of course they used to go for raw when it was special and a treat. Anyway, I think I'm rambling. I hate wasting so much raw and I really worry about everyone taking in the food they need. Should I start doing a soup with the kibble and raw like you suggested? Should I leave the kibble whole or crush it up? You know, they're probably eating the raw on their own in bits and I just don't notice it. Maybe? There's always lot's left, though. Do I need to hold out and make them eat it? I'm so used to putting it out as a treat and seeing them run over to get it right away. Now they're just like, "Oh, that stuff, yeah, no, I'm gonna go over there." maybe they're just eating it on their own time? Augh, except, again, there's always lot's left! From what I've read, too, they should be going for it right away and eating it up quick. Sorry if any of that was confusing. Feel free to ask questions about anything that didn't make sense. I'm kinda kerfuffled about the whole thing, as you may be able to tell. -sigh- thanks, Katt!!
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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2011 2:57:48 GMT -5
I am not familiar with Nature's Variety raw medallions, but it looks like it is essentially commercial ground raw? The switching process should work for the cats as well as the ferrets I believe, so feel free to have them join the ride! Ok, so first of all that schedule is not bad at all! You are on a 12/12 hr schedule which is roughly what a "normal" schedule would be your hours are jsut not "normal." (neither are mine don't worry hahaha). Raw meat stays good a LOT longer than you would think. Soup is good for about 8 hours, ground 12, and whole/chunks/RMB etc for 24 hours. They will even last longer than that, esp if the room is cool rather than hot. Basically though, as long as you are removing any bad food every 12 hours and refilling with fresh food they should be fine. What I do is in the morning, I give some fresh food. At night before bed, I remove any "bad" food and top off the good leftovers with some new meats. In the morning I again, remove bad food, and top off with fresh food. And I use a feeding den so I wash out the feeding den/food dishes daily also. I leave the food in the cage all day though so that my boys have constant access to food. Also, keep in mind that in the wild, ferrets will stash their prey and not finish it off until days later. ABND on top of that, if the meat is truly "bad" the ferret will not eat it. Unless they are starving. We will get him eating raw! It might take him a bit longer, and a bit more babying and handfeeding, but he WILL get there as long as you are determined that he will. Will they ALL eat the kibble I assume? What about the wet food? I would really recommend going back to basics and starting at square one for them all. Right now they are all on different tracts with their eating habits it sounds like, and I think if we start from point A, it will be a bit easier to get most of them caught up to each other. There will inevitably ebe some who take to it slower, and faster, but we will adjsut as we go as needed. Sound ok to you? If not say so and we will work out another way to go about it. If that sounds ok, and if they will all eat the kibble, then I would start by making some soupies like I described. Feed them some kibble, and even mix in some wet food if you think that they will all like it well enough. Hand feed each of them a few licks of the soupies until you are fairly confident that they will eat it - or at least taste it to get to the kibble. Then once they have all tasted this (read my first post about hand feeding then spoon feeding, etc) pour a bit of it over their kibble like gravy. Hopefully you will not have to hand feed them for very long, or very many times, in order to get them to eat the soupies. Once they will eat kibble coated in soup-gravy, then increase he soup. We want to essentially get them all - Mushu included - eating JUST soupies. Then from there raw soupies (pureed raw). Once we are there they will be eating raw, and we will add chunks etc slowly. But at least they will be totally off kibble. In theory. Please give feedback/thoguhts on this plan. If you don;t like anything, are unsure about anything, etc jsut Let Me Know and we can do it differently. IF you have Q's about WHY or HOW ask. Of course. lol they are ferrets and are trying to est you. Start with whole kibble covered in soupies and then hopefully we can in a few days get rid of it entirely. No problem! That is what I am here for! WE will get you all un-kerfuffled in no time! And your furbrats too!
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Post by zombieferrets on Feb 16, 2011 18:37:41 GMT -5
If everyone will eat the raw/wet off of my fingers is it necessary to go backwards? They'll all eat it off my fingers but it's getting them to eat it on their own that I'm having a problem with. Instead of going backwards should I just be feeding them by hand/spoon as needed until they get the point that they're not getting kibble anymore?
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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2011 18:57:34 GMT -5
If everyone will eat the raw/wet off of my fingers is it necessary to go backwards? They'll all eat it off my fingers but it's getting them to eat it on their own that I'm having a problem with. Instead of going backwards should I just be feeding them by hand/spoon as needed until they get the point that they're not getting kibble anymore? Well I think that if they are eating it off your fingers, that they should take to it pretty quickly. But no, no need to go backwards. I just got the impression that Mushu wouldn't really eat it and you didn't want to hand feed so much. In that case then, go ahead and try blending the raw/wet food with some water into a soup and see if they like that enough to eat it on their own, or if after feeding a few spoons hand fed, you can get them to eat it out of the bowl. If they will all eat soup on their own, then it should be easy to thicken it back up. To get them from hand feeding to eating on their own, feed from your fingers, then from a spoon in your lap. Then when they will eat from the spoon, hold the spoon with them not in your lap, and hold the spoon closer and closer to the bowl, then remove the spoon and give the bowl only. I know sherry has had a lot of success switching from finger-feeding to them eating it on their own like that. You can even do that with the commercial raw instead of the soupies if you think they will take to it. That will be just another step to not worry about later as far as thickening the soup gradually to the consistency of ground. Does that sound like something that might work? Essentially what we want is to get them ALL eating soft raw (commercial, ground, puree, etc) so that you don't have to hand feed as much, and then we can start incorporating chunks and remove the soft raw. Then to bones, etc.
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Post by zombieferrets on Feb 16, 2011 19:48:13 GMT -5
Yup, definitely makes sense. I can have it be just a bit soupy and everyone will still eat it off my fingers or from a spoon and I have done it before that I lower the spoon or my finger into the dish and then I can back away and they'll eat it from there. My problem is that they'll only eat it for a bit and then they'll stop and I haven't seen them start back up eating it later on their own. Again my worry is that they're not going to get enough food. Can I be sure that they are? Should I completely take away the kibble so they're forced to eat the raw?
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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2011 22:11:24 GMT -5
Personally, I would try removing the kibble. Nothing like little hunger to motivate them. Honestly they should be fine. In the wild they will miss mels here and ther regularly. There was a recent thred in the old forum about Bob Church, and basically on a properly balanced raw/whole prey diet, it is actually healthier for ferrets to have variation in meal sizes, and even to miss a meal here and there as that more accurately reflects how they would eat in the wild. And most people will notice that once on a raw diet, their ferrets will even do this on their own, eating next to nothing one day and pigging out another. Being a little hungry for a short time will not do any harm to a healthy ferret. If you get them all to eat the raw/wet mush from the bowl on their own, take the kibble away (and keep it away) and they should continue to eat it. They might give you some pathetic looks, and pretend to snub it a few times, but stick with it and they will eat it. They are not going to starve themselves. If it gets to be a concern, then we can approach that when it happens but I really don't think you will have much of an issue once they realize that the raw/wet food IS food and they'd better eat it because that's what they get. It's kind of like getting a toddler to eat their veggies. Ig you give in, they will strt to learn that if they wit long enough, you will give them crunchy kibbles. Little brats! My only concern here would be Mushu because of his adrenal. Just keep a close eye out for ny concerning signs: decresed energy, etc. You might need to hand feed him and baby him a bit more than the others. But we will get him there. Give it a try and see what they do. Worst case scenario, they Do try to starve themselves and we give the kibble back and try a different approach. But since they DO recognize the raw/wet as something EDIBLE, it is highly unlikely that they will attempt to starve themselves. I hope I'm not being too repetetive/rambling here... ? And that I am making sense! Now be aware, they might very well try to throw a fit. Watch out for tantrum poops, and pathetic faces.
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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2011 22:13:02 GMT -5
Sorry for some of the missing letters in the words. I am using my bf's computer right now and he has a few sticky keys.
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Post by zombieferrets on Feb 16, 2011 23:28:12 GMT -5
Awesome, thank you, Katt!!! that's what I've been wanting to do but I know that ferrets will starve themselves sometimes and (especially with Mushu) I did not want to take that chance. How long should I give it? It's so hard to see if they're all eating it but if I have to separate my FN142 and put someone up top (Mushu the most likely) to make sure they're eating then I can do that. Myra just came and I had put a couple treats (My Mighty Wolf - they're grain free and very meaty!) in the raw and she came over and first she picked one out and ran away with it but then she came back and ate some raw before running off with the last treat. yay!! Okay, so I'm going to try!! I'll try to hand feed everyone just to remind them each night before bed and each morning I get up when I refill their food. Hopefully that'll get them going on it. I guess I should try to get Coco (my 6 year old kitty) going on the raw too. She ate it the first time and has since refused it and wanted her kibble. She is a very vocal kitty regularly so trying to make her hungry enough to eat the raw....augh, not going to be fun!
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Post by katt on Feb 16, 2011 23:43:02 GMT -5
How long...hmmm... a few days at least. Keep an eye out and try to catch each of them eating and pooping at least once a day. If they are not pooping, or pooping less, then chances are they are eating less. If you see them becoming noticeably less active, chances are they are not eating enough. Also, they should become more willing to eat it from you when you hand feed as they become more adjusted to eating it as food. Give it a few days and just feel it out day by day. Keep me updated and keep an eye on them. I really don't think you will have anything to worry about (other than potentially Mushu). Once they realize temper tantrums will not get them kibble they should start to shape up. ;D Keep me updated!
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Post by zombieferrets on Feb 16, 2011 23:50:17 GMT -5
Okay!! I'll post an update sometime tomorrow! thank you so much, Katt!!
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Post by katt on Feb 17, 2011 1:13:14 GMT -5
You are welcome! I'll check in for updates.
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Post by zombieferrets on Feb 17, 2011 3:57:36 GMT -5
Everyone just ate some!!!! I made it more soupy then usual and I pulled Mushu out of a hammock he was sleeping in and was holding him and the dish and he started eating it so I put him down in the cage and he kept eating!!! Myra, Mitch, and Percy all ate before him and Farris ate after!! Precious is still happy to eat the raw just straight raw while Coco is still determined to stick with kibble. I'll get her, though!!! Yaaaay!!! thanks, Katt! I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow. Hopefully they keep up the great eating!
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