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Post by katt on Mar 3, 2011 0:11:00 GMT -5
Do you have a lunch break that you can feed her during?
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Post by katt on Mar 4, 2011 13:37:07 GMT -5
Any updates? How is Farris doing?
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Post by zombieferrets on Mar 4, 2011 20:53:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately no. My lunch break is 30 minutes and I work 20 minutes away, so that wouldn't work. I got some more chicken so I'll try that again and see if that helps. still worried about Mushu. He's over 2lbs but he looks sooo skinny. Might start giving him some kibble as well just to make sure he's okay.
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Post by katt on Mar 5, 2011 1:25:50 GMT -5
You could lock the two of them together in one part of the cage with kibble at night. Have you tied offering Farris just some chicken chunks with no soupies or anything? Perhpas she just decided she does not like chunks. I forget if I suggested that already or not.. For Mushu, don't forget that it IS Spring Shed. On top of that, chaging to a raw diet, most ferrets tend to lose weight. On top of that, some ferrets have a "greyhound" build and are just more slender anyways. Here is a good thread about it with pictures: www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=health&thread=535&page=1Obviously though YOU know your ferrets best and it comes down to a judgement call on your part. How are the others doing with soup and chunks? And what about Kitty Coco?
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Post by zombieferrets on Mar 5, 2011 16:46:41 GMT -5
I got both Mushu and Farris to eat quite a bit this morning. I super souped up some chicken and Farris ate up a lot of that as well. I think she really prefers soups and maybe the same with Mushu. I'm going to try again in a couple minutes 'cause I find they eat more if I give them some time between feedings. Mushu is overly skinny, though, so I'm working extra with him. Coco's being pretty good. still have to do the kibble thing and she's eats an entire dish all at once when she's hungry. As long as she's eating it I'm happy!
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Post by zombieferrets on Mar 5, 2011 16:47:17 GMT -5
Oh, and everyone else is doing great! they all enjoy the chunks and go over and eat whenever they're hungry.
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Post by katt on Mar 5, 2011 17:29:03 GMT -5
Ok so here is where we go from here. Are the others eating plain chunks, or only with soupies on them? If the latter, let's begin by withdrawing the soup. If they will eat plain chunks, start gradually increasing chunk size and adding in chunks of other meats (beef, turkey, lamb, bison, pork, duck, cornish game hen, etc). Then here soon we will start eating bone. For Farris and Mushu. Will they eat really thin, liquidy soup on their own? Can you separate them from the others? If not that is fine, if so then go ahead and give them their own space, with really liquid soupies available. You can still give the kibble at night if you need to, but provide soup too. Also, try to start drizzling just a teeny bit of soup over the kibble like gravy. See how they do on that. Once you know they will eat the soupies of their wn free will let me know. At that point we can start weaning the kibble off more slowly than the others, and thickening the soup up more slowly than the others. If you cannot separate them during the day, just provide both chunks and liquidy soup. Continue with the hand feeding as this will continue to improve their opinion of the sou. For the others, please describe in detail exactly what they are eating each day (food, type, size, covered in soup, plain chunks, kibble supplement, etc). For Coco, keep giving her the soup but make it a little bit thicker by adding less water. Also, decrease the amount of kibble that you put in the dish with it. We want to slowly wean her off of having the kibble present.
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Post by zombieferrets on Mar 7, 2011 2:21:43 GMT -5
Everyone else is happy to eat chunks and I'm not mixing any water with their meat so they're getting used to chewing more. I got in some new flavors for them (beef and venison) and they seem fine with those. Mushu and Farris I'm just mixing chicken with some canned food. Mushu and Farris are now separated in the bottom of the FN cage with the others up top. They'll both eat the soup on their own and have emptied the bowl when I get up in the morning. I'm holding them and making sure they eat as much as I can as well. Farris definitely eats more than Mushu but Mushu is eating and gaining weight so that's good. He's just over 2.5lbs now. Everyone else is getting the Nature's Variety meats (chicken, lamb, venison, beef, right now) in variety mixed with a bit of Evanger's canned food also in a variety of meats. I mush it up but it's quite a solid mush. They seem to let it sit a bit until they're hungry enough and would much prefer the soups but they'll eat the chunks. Coco's just a brat. I've just been giving her one or two kibbles and last night I put two in front of the raw and she just went over, smelt the kibbles, and then ignored them and started eating the raw. She screams and screams at me like she can't eat until I put the kibbles down, though. Weirdo! Here's a picture of Mushu eating last night (that's Farris above him!): He's definitely too skinny but I think he will put the weight on since he is gaining now. I think it was just a mix of everything all at once and I just have to keep on top of him to make sure he continues to gain.
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Post by katt on Mar 7, 2011 6:07:40 GMT -5
That is one weird cat that you have there! ;D Too funny with the kibble! Try to start putting one piece (instead of two)... For the others, start making their chunks bigger. Can you send me a link perhaps to the commercial food that you are getting? Do you want to keep them on this commercial raw as their primary diet with other meats/bones mixed in, their sole diet, or do you want them to get mostly frankenprey (other meats, bones, organs, etc) with perhaps some of the commercial raw mixed in here and there? This will make a significant difference in the direction we take. Aww poor skinny butt Mushu! I would have to agree from the picture that he looks underweight. It is different without fur too though because just having fur makes them look a bit thicker. So for him being so naked, it makes it look that much worse. I am glad that he is gaining weight! Keep giving them the watered down soupies and let them have as much as they can and will eat. Of course. Every meal, or every other meal (depending on how resistant they are) try to make it just a teeeeeny bit thicker. Keep offering kibble if you think that you need to, but otherwise if you feel comfortable that they are both eating enough soupies on their own take it away and see how they do. If the bowl is empty in the morning, then give them more. General rule of thumb for amounts is you want to always feed so that there's always just a tad bit leftover. If it is empty, then you don't know for sure that they got full and you want them to eat as much as they need. Especially these two.
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Post by zombieferrets on Mar 8, 2011 0:33:06 GMT -5
I've been lessening the amount of kibble I give her but it seems to vary day by day if she'll even eat it, like I told you. I do just one kibble sometimes too. Today she decided she isn't happy with the raw but I'm not giving in. Nut! I'll try to get you a picture of the raw and figure out exactly where I want to head with the their diet tomorrow. This morning I found that I think only Farris had really eaten on her own last night so I put her up with the other ferrets and put her mush up there and gave Mushu some kibble at the bottom. I'll try to get him to eat the soup whenever I can but otherwise I'm going to keep kibble out for him all the time, which I hadn't been doing. thanks for all your help, Katt. I'll try to post again tomorrow evening!
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Post by katt on Mar 8, 2011 16:43:15 GMT -5
Ok. You are doing really well so just keep it up. Let me know what you decide and any info you find on the commercial raw you are feeding.
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Post by zombieferrets on Mar 8, 2011 22:10:44 GMT -5
www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/dog/allThat's what I'm feeding right now. I'm doing well? Really? Man, that's not how I feel! I guess Precious, Mitch, Percy, and Myra are doing well but the fact that Farris, Mushu, and Coco are being bums is making me not so happy. I'd love to feed whole prey (not live!) someday but getting there seems SO difficult! I guess I just really have to accept that I'm going to have to do different ways of feeding for quite a while, hey? Dang. Well, for those who will hopefully eat it I'd love to work up to whole prey if possible!
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Post by katt on Mar 9, 2011 5:18:28 GMT -5
Ok, so do you want to keep them on this, or go more frankenprey? In other words, raw meaty bones, organs, muscle meat etc. Things like chicken wings, liver, gizzards, turkey neck, yadda yadda, or keep the Nature's Variety in? I personally think that it might be easier to switch them to whole prey via frankenprey, because they will already be used to crunching on bones. But it can be done either way. I think you need to decide one way or the other. And it is ok to change your mind later. The ones who are eating their chunks are ready to start moving on to the next steps, but what those steps will be is going to be somewhat different depending on which direction you want to take. Also the NV food, what is the consistency? Is it like semi-solid ground meat? Or more like say, a real chicken breast? I am guessing more on the ground end of the texture scale? For Mushu, Farris, and Coco - do NOT get discouraged! Making the switch can be a process that takes months. And some ferrets take to it right away, while others take much longer and are slow and difficult to switch. You have all of the above! Just stick with it. It is all in YOUR attitude. If YOU are convinced they will eat raw, they WILL eat raw. And no worries, I bet you we can get them All on whole prey. How is Mushu doing? And Farris? If you leave him kibble all of the time, you might want to try using the soupies like gravy in addition to hand feeding soupies. Start with just a teeny bit of "gravy" and work your way up to more and more gravy. What would Coco do if you just refused to set down kibble pieces for her at all? Like just continued to ignore her. For say, two days? You think she would eat? Might be worth a shot. Will she take the chunks yet or just soupies?
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Post by zombieferrets on Mar 10, 2011 22:28:58 GMT -5
Oy, which do I want...is Frankenprey a specific brand then? I've never known what you guys meant by that. I really would love to do whole prey someday. It's just so hard to intimidating! But getting them on raw at all was intimidating and I guess that's mostly happened. Mushu's eating lot's of kibble and I put some gravy on his kibble this morning and he ate the kibble anyway. Tonight I'll put on a bit more. Farris seems to be doing well eating the soup still. Oh, and I saw Mushu go and eat some of the other's soup the other day too! Only a bit but still! Coco willingly ate A LOT of the raw last night without any kibble. I think she goes a day or two and screams at me and then finally eats tons of the raw. she likes it she's just being a brat. She ate some chunks yesterday too. Oh! Last night I was getting Mushu's kibble and Coco got all excited about it and ran over to me. I walked away from her with it to put it in Mushu's part of the cage and Coco actually ran over to Mushu and started smacking him as if to say, "You SUCK! I want the kibble! I HATE YOU!" Hahahahaha. It was hilarious but I still made her stop. such a brat!!!!!!! Oh, and the consistency of the NC depends on the meat, I find. I usually mush it up so it's more like ground meat but if you're going between chicken breast and ground meat it's definitely more on the ground side.
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Post by katt on Mar 11, 2011 1:12:15 GMT -5
Frankenprey is imitation of prey through other meats, usually store bought. It is what 90% of raw fed ferrets are on. Instead of commercial chicken (chicken processed for pets like NV food) you buy and chop a chicken from the store. You need a variety of meats, bones, and organs. You try to mimic the proportions of whole prey with muscle meat, organs, and bone to create a balanced diet. Hence the name frankenprey. It is basically your typical Raw Meaty Bones, BARF, etc diet. The real meat and whole bones helps clean their teeth and improve jaw strength. Commercial raw (NV) is a good way to go too, but it will require teeth cleanings as they will not be getting whole bones. You can also do a mix of the two. Does that explain it well enough? To give you an idea. My boys get: duck - whole duck chopped into manageable pieces, pork meat, pork liver, pork heart, pork kidney, chicken liver, chicken heart, whole rabbit (chopped up by me into day-sized portions like the duck), goat meat, whole prey, I used to feed beef and beef organs but Koda is allergic...etc. They get any variety of the above (and other meats as well) but in a way so that their overall diet is balanced, consisting of 80% muscle meat, 10% organs, 10% bones. We will get there! It is not nearly as impossible as you may think. Oh that is good news! He will get there, just be determined and persistent. Keep adding more and more gravy to his kibble. If you get to a point where he seems unsure, keep it stable for a few days until he eats that level willingly. Then add more soupies. Gradually decrease the kibble in the same fashion. And if he is eating the others' soup that is a good sign too. Keep it up little buddy! What a strange cat. hahaha I am glad she is eating it without kibble now. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Ok so this is commercial raw. It is usually considered a type of ground meat. You need chunks like chicken breast, other whole meats, and raw bones to build the jaw strength and clean their teeth. The NV is a balanced diet and will be healthy for them, but you will need to keep an eye on their teeth for tartar buildup and clean them regularly.
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