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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 10:29:04 GMT -5
Lol! Sherry, she said she'd never expect a "sick animal" to create so much havoc in a pen.... I lightly laughed and reminded her that Meeko was a ferret. They tend to cause havoc anywhere they go. Then, I also added that it's even worse, she's a baby ferret! haha! I guess she's really not used to seeing ferrets lol Stiv, I ask myself the same questions sometimes. But then I remind myself... Biopsies don't really lie... if they came back positive for cancerous cells, I would assume there would only be one chance in a million (if not more) that she's in fact not sick... The only time she was ever sick was when her duodenum and stomach weren't doing very good before the operation. Since then she's been doing absolutely great! I read online though that baby ferrets don't tend to LOOK sick until it's almost time... and some may not even look sick at all... ever... And the owners just find them gone one day... I hope so too! I try and feel her belly a few times every day. Maybe if something starts to grow I will feel it and know? I don't know I feel like it's almost a mission that every ferret in the world feels the absolute need to complete... empty the bowl of water as soon as possible. this is why I have water bottles hahaha Again, she's still eating her raw great and still laps up ALL the excess water I add in. Lyla loves it too! She's always loved watery things.... Sandra, Lyla & Meeko
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Post by Sherry on Oct 20, 2011 10:34:22 GMT -5
I'd be really careful about palpating her abdomen. If her spleen enlarges(quite common when ferrets are ill, and sometimes not even ill) it can rupture. Generally it'll feel like something longer and firm. Not entirely familiar with it myself, since the only one of mine with an enlarged spleen was Sinnead, and it was just before she passed from adrenal related lymphoma.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 12:18:12 GMT -5
Oh yes! I do not squeeze or push onto anything. I simply just gently rub my my fingers lightly on her belly putting a small pressure to feel if something feels "hard", like a possible tumor growth. My kiss attacks are harder on her body than my feeling for possible tumors I am very gentle with my girls... Thanks for worrying though! Sandra, Lyla & Meeko
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Post by Heather on Oct 20, 2011 12:29:52 GMT -5
Chances are you're not going to find something in her stomach or abdominal area....check under her legs close to the joints (arm pits ), around her jaw line, just under her ear at the back of the jaw. These are lymphnodes...hence the name lymphomas...those are the easy ones to find. There are others, but those are the easy ones to check. Other cancers are found in the abdominal areas, bowels, stomach, liver....again, you may never feel them. The spleen is very fragile, so indeed be careful. I usually just slide a ferret across my hand, it's part of the ferret massage. That light a touch and you can feel the enlarged spleen and any other nasties that are surface touchable. You're right, there may be no sign until the exact time....a blessing in a way...much harder on you but much easier on them. I liken the lymphomas babies as shooting stars...they burn very bright for but a moment and they stay in your mind forever. They are a very special gift. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 18:24:49 GMT -5
At Heather, the most serious tumor in Rob was RIGHT in the middle of the tummy. so i am going to have to disagree with you! he had no tumors exept near the lymphnodes in the chest. although they are not the most major lymphnodes, they are still there! Rob had Juvenile lymphoma and his largest tumor was in the intestine.
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Post by Heather on Oct 20, 2011 22:35:14 GMT -5
One of the problems with juvenile lymphoma and lymphoma in particular is that it "throws" aggressive cancer cells and spreads quickly. www.2ndchance.info/lymphomaferret.htmYou will note that the lymph glands are shown in the diagram. There are no lymph glands in the abdomen. Most are in the neck, under the legs and under the jaw line, the only ones that are actually in the rear of the ferret are the lymphnodes under the back legs (they're up in the joint area by the hip and spine (one of the reasons why it often causes a ferret to go down in the rear, spreading to the bowels and spine). The easiest to feel without pressure are the ones under the jaw and under the legs (which is why I referenced them). Palpatating a ferret in any place that is close to organs should not be done by anyone who's not trained to do so (vets will show you how if you want to know). Please do not press or push on the abdomen. The spleen in these instances is very fragile. If the spleen has any cancerous growths it will rupture with little to no pressure (sometimes it ruptures on it's own). You will not get to the vet in time before your little one bleeds out. Read through the article it's fairly simple to read, describes not only the disease but also goes into some detail of how they suspect it occurs. It also mentions that for juvenile lymphomas young ferrets often show no swelling of the glands so poking your ferret will have little consiquence other than to make it uncomfortable or injure it. ciao
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Post by Sherry on Oct 21, 2011 8:58:07 GMT -5
Thanks for that link Heather- I've copy/pasted into the lymphoma section.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 11:29:54 GMT -5
I read that article the day I learned about Meeko's diagnosis. I do not "poke" her glands It can be painful to us when doctors simply feel our own glands, I can assume how uncomfortable it can be for them when they're sick! Geez I try and feel her glands while I give her her rubdown. She doesn't seem to notice I check these. I think she just thinks I'm petting her in different areas to make her even happier, lol! When she was opened (as mentioned before) all the lymph nodes were perfectly healthy looking. The issues were seen in her liver, duodenum and stomach. All three came back positive with cancerous cells, but no tumors could be seen anywhere (I assume they'd have seen some larger ones while looking for a blockage). Her spleen still looked fine two weeks ago, so I don't know how long it will take before it enlarges (if it gets to that), so I am very careful with that. Trust me, if it ever ruptures, it is not from me gently feeling her abdomen for possible hardness, but from her rough play and heavy sister walking and sleeping all over her <3 I am not ready to separate them and make them both more miserable just to save her spleen... it could still happen on it's own... I don't want Meeko to live alone for the little while she's got left.... If her spleen ruptures unexpectedly without any warning, she'll be with her sister when it happens <3 Considering what the vet found and all and with all I've read about the juvenile form, I truly think I'll be wasting my time checking her actual neck and upper body lymph nodes. I check then rapidly, but they are not my biggest concern. I worry most about the spleen or tumors in her digestive track.... Thanks for your concerns! Up to now Meeko's doing good! She still goes crazy with the freeze dried with water. To prevent her being dehydrated again, I put about twice the amount of water required to reconstitute, and both girls absolutely love this! They don't stop until all the water's gone! lol I found myself having to feed twice last night, and again twice this morning! Wow! If this keeps up, I will run out before my next order comes in! :S Eeek! If this happens, we'll figure something out at that time Oh yeah! I was able to get my paw on two small cans of NV Rabbit canned. They both turned their noses to it. I tried mixing it in, adding loads of water... nothing! I wasted the freeze dried it was mixed with... so I guess my girls don't like canned food at all... Sandra, Lyla & Meeko
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Post by Sherry on Oct 21, 2011 11:41:44 GMT -5
It might be an idea to purée up some raw chicken soup and add it into the mix they are eating, in case you do run out. If you do, just start by adding about 1/2 tsp at a time and slowly increase if you like.
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Post by Heather on Oct 21, 2011 12:09:39 GMT -5
I'm so glad that Meeko's enjoying life...it's great to hear. I think I would be trying Sherry's idea about the food. It's worth a try. I wouldn't be separating them either. It was my choice to do this several years ago with Mischief. He had cancer of the spleen we knew this and it had spread to other organs. His spleen was huge and if he had been healthier (both mentally and physically, he suffered depression easily), younger we would have attempted surgery and removed it but he would never has survived the surgery. It was suggested at the time that he be separated from the rest of the business and placed in a hospital cage so that he wouldn't suffer a hard blow. He would have died far sooner without his Napoleon. One day when I went to give him his melatonin, I found him in a sleep box with Napoleon. He had passed away in his sleep, his spleen had finally ruptured. He was with his best friend and I'm sure that's how he would have wanted it, not hidden away in a hospital cage without friends. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 12:12:00 GMT -5
Adding some raw soup will save you some money too that freeze dried is so handy but SO expensive Raw chicken soup is pretty easy to, just throw 8oz of chicken (basically one chicken breast) into a blender/food processor, add some water and you're good to go. You can also mix a little pumpkin (helps things pass through the digestive tract more easily) and some extra virgin olive oil (an anti-inflammatory which is great for the tummy - especially if she's on pred which can irritate it). A "balanced" soup also includes a couple chicken hearts, 1 chicken liver and some crushed egg shell (to balance the calcium in the diet) but since she's already getting balance from the freeze dried, you'd be safe to just mix in pureed raw chicken soup in the freeze dried, I'd say. It will definitely make food last longer and as far as raw food prep goes, it's the least messy and easiest #lol# you can even make a big batch, freeze it in ice cube trays, then just melt an ice cube or two into the freeze dried each meal Glad to hear Meeko is still doing well! I 100% agree with letting her and Lyla stay together and still be ferrets.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 12:13:47 GMT -5
I haven't yet run out of kibble. If I ever run out of the freeze dried, they won't like me very much, but they have enough kibble to feed them for another month or so. I've been leaving some out in the cage until I'm out. They much rather the raw, but when I don't throw out the older stuff and replace with some fresh, they still eat the kibble... So worse comes to worse, They like to have a few pieces of Ziwipeak in their raw (and I have access to some of that), plus I haven't run out of their kibbles yet, so I think I'll feed that if I ever run out. But if it ever gets to the point where they stop eating the kibble entirely, I will start mixing in some baby food or some other type of raw meaty chicken food Thanks for the tip PS: Since hearing about Meeko's diagnosis, we've had the camera out at all times - we didn't have many pictures of her before.... I should upload at least one soon, some are VERY cute shots lol Lyla is an in between of a chocolate and cinnamon (she's darker than the cinnamon, but lighter than the chocolate. Her guard hairs look almost "orange" over her beige undercoat...) mitt and pushing the roan on her hind legs and tail.... she's a funny mix.... Meeko on the other hand is a gorgeous sable Siamese point. Sandra, Lyla & Meeko
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 12:24:55 GMT -5
Well, I do have a blender, and a freezer! Haha, I might as well try that out! I agree that the freeze dried is expensive, but after spending 2k for a dying baby ferret, I don't feel like 16$ every two weeks or so for a 7 oz bad of freeze dried is too much for them anymore lol I would gladly add in some chicken hearts and other organs to the soup, but I only find them at Safeway, and they come frozen in little containers with about 20-30 hearts, same with the gizzards and livers... that's way too many.... is there a better source? Lyla and Meeko LOVE those Benny Bully's Freeze Dried chicken hearts, but I haven't gotten my hand on a bag for about a month now. Plus, I noticed Meeko seems to get liquid-er poops when I gave her one, so I don't know if they agree with her very much, lol! So, if I get my paw on some of those, can I add those in? But they don't have chicken liver or gizzards.... What would be best? Thanks so much for the help guys! Sandra, Lyla & Meeko
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Post by Sherry on Oct 21, 2011 13:19:06 GMT -5
A normal soup would be about 8 oz chicken, a couple hearts, a liver, and about 1/2 tsp eggshell powder. So you could make a double batch and freeze in ice cube trays, then baggie. One pkg each hearts and livers would be about 8-9 batches if soup. Just portion and freeze accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 13:26:09 GMT -5
Ok, sounds good, only the come frozen. It's hard to separate them to put them in batch-handy bags and keep frozen.... :S lol I think this is my biggest issue :S
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