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Post by katt on May 17, 2011 4:35:50 GMT -5
Sorry for the delayed reply. It's been a strange and kind of busy weekend. I think I started replying to you the other night and fell asleep. Oops. Your plan sounds good. I often feed different things in one meal. In feeding multiple items the only thing I would worry about is making sure they both get enough organs and hearts. Sound I'd plan on a few meals for example of JUST heart and JUST organ. The other days feeding multiple items should be just fine. The tendon will be yummy! Let me know how your search goes. Oh and ground carcass has meat and bone in good proportions, but I'll have to check on organs. I want to say carcass means Everything including organs in which case the balance should be pretty good.
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Post by katt on May 18, 2011 3:09:46 GMT -5
Bumpedy bump bump. Any progress?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 14:11:05 GMT -5
No worries about the delayed response, I'm sorry for my delayed response too! My IBS has been acting up lately and I've been feeling pretty awful the past couple days so in an attempt not to neglect the ferrets and other critters, I've neglected my computer instead ;D I got the girls to eat goat this morning though! They would not touch it the first time I offered it (not sure if I said that or not) so at least I'm finally getting them to try stuff other than their favourite chicken type meats. My freezer is basically full of meats now, I just need to stock up on quail and more organ and heart meats once I'm up to making the drive (all the asian markets are across town and my tummy hasn't let me stray too far from the house lately stupid IBS) and then I think I'll be set to have a good meal plan. Here's my sample meal plan: I think you're suppose to have organs one meal out of the week and heart a couple meals but if I'm wrong and it's more, let me know! SUNDAY: AM- Cornish Hen: Wings , rib cage and diced meat PM- elk tendons and commerical Duck patties (pretty sure the Duck patties have bone in them, not sure about organs - yet to pick them up) MONDAY: AM - Organs (chicken liver, hopefully other types of liver, beef organ patties eventually and pork brain - what other organs do they need? spleen? kidney?) And I realize they are going to have nasty poops ;D Do I give a whole bunch of organs at once or alternate them each week? Is it better to split this into two meals? PM - Cornish Hen: Legs, back and diced meat (basically the rest of the cornish hen from Sunday) TUESDAY: AM - Pork Muscle Meat (depending on what I have on hand this will be one or more of the following: pork tenderloin, pork chops, pork ribs - they don't really eat the bones so it counts as muscle meat, pork belly sliced - it looks like unseasoned bacon, the closest thing I could find to what you described) PM - Hearts and chicken necks(Chicken hearts for now, but hopefully I can get pork and beef hearts too) WEDNESDAY: AM - Goat meat (stewing goat chunks/some bone, commercial ground goat/includes organs) PM - Chicken wings and chicken backs THURSDAY: AM - Turkey Necks and split turkey wings PM - Hearts and chicken gizzards(hopefully a different kind of heart from what they had earlier in the week) FRIDAY: AM - Lamb meat and bones (commercial ground lamb/includes organs, and lamb bones to chew on - don't think they can eat these, just suck the marrow out) PM - Whole Quail (bone in) cut into smaller chunksSATURDAY: AM - Hearts (hopefully different from whatever kind of hearts they got earlier in the week - if I could go pork hearts one meal, chicken hearts one meal and beef hearts one meal I think I'd be set and wouldn't have to supplement with Taurine? Or should I get taurine supplements anyways?) PM - Commerical rabbit meat (ground carcass with bone- I too think this includes organs but let me know if you find out) I do want to get Beef in there somewhere too once I can get them eating it. I actually bought veal cutlets and am going to try them with veal first and then work my way up to the beef ;D Also possibly work frozen thawed mice in eventually, but I think for now that's a decent menu? Let me know if I need more organs / heart / bone or if there's a way to balance it better? Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 18:48:07 GMT -5
I just wanted to add that I have a feeling that goat is exactly like lamb in the sense that it's "hit or miss" as you described. Olivia is eating the goat but Sophie ate only a little bit and now she doesn't want the rest So the goat and lamb days may be replaced by beef (if and when I get them eating it). I am trying veal cutlets tonight and some raw steak chunks (that I stole from my own dinner haha) so here's hoping! *fingers crossed*
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 18:49:38 GMT -5
Also wanted to add that I won't be attempting to start that menu (with whatever awesome modifications you have to it ) until this Sunday. I'm going to use the rest of this week to get them eating all of those items on there, as some of them they've only eaten once or twice.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 23:50:20 GMT -5
Praise the lord, veal and steak is food!!! Beef stewing chunks and beef organ patties are next!!!
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Post by katt on May 19, 2011 13:29:10 GMT -5
Hey no worries, it was jsut the first time that I didn't hear back right away and normally I am the slow one, not you. So I was just worried something might be up. :/ I am sorry about your IBS, but I totally know what you mean about sacrificing computer time for pet time. Your menu looks good at first glance. My only concern would be the amount of heart, simply because heart can cause loose stools, and you don't want loose stools too often. However, if you supplement with pumpkin etc and they seem to handle it okay, then great! If not and they are having soft poopies too often, then I would concentrate the heart days so say one day they get organs one meal, and two kinds of heart the next so that they have one full day of runny poops, and then a few days to "recover" so to say, rather than runny poops every other day. Again, you can experiment with it. If they handle every other day fine then I would see little reason to change it - they need the taurine. As for the goat, that is interesting. Koda was on a diet of almsot entirely lamb for quite some time because it was all that he could handle during his big IBD flare up. But then one day he (and Kenai) decided that he didn't want to touch it. Ever. But they both eat goat just fine and I have never heard of goat being like lamb. Though it is entirely possible as the two meats are very similar, and I always wondered why it was not like lamb in that matter. Hmmm... I would still offer it on occasion even though they are now eating the beef (yaaaay!!!!!) simply for a little variety. More variety is always better and it helps keep them from getting bored with their food. Any luck with the organ patties yet?
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Post by katt on May 19, 2011 13:40:55 GMT -5
(chicken liver, hopefully other types of liver, beef organ patties eventually and pork brain - what other organs do they need? spleen? kidney?) And I realize they are going to have nasty poops ;D Do I give a whole bunch of organs at once or alternate them each week? Is it better to split this into two meals?Nope, see my comment on heart. Better to get it all over at once. Organs should be about half liver, and then the other half should include a variety of other organs such as kidney and spleen (those are the only things I can find here lol but all of the stuff in those beef patties=good good good)... I am pretty sure brain counts as an organ too and I know it is really healthy - it has lots of nutrition in it [/quote]
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Post by katt on May 19, 2011 13:48:25 GMT -5
PS You are almost ready for graduation! I submitted your menu to Heather and we will see if she thinks we missed anything. Then she will offer suggestions for improvement, or approve you for graduation!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 15:14:34 GMT -5
Hurray!!!! I will be attempting those beef organ patties tonight... so we'll see ;D But that is a very good point about the hearts. I think what I'd rather do is get it all over with in one day like you said with the organs in the morning and the straight hearts at night, and then I'll just throw in a couple hearts here and there throughout the week as "snacks" given with bone-in meats to avoid icky poops but still keep their taurine levels up. Here's my revised menu: SUNDAY: AM- Cornish Hen: Wings, rib cage and diced meat PM- Commerical Duck patties/Duck bone-in meat and elk tendons MONDAY: AM - Organs: 1/2 Chicken liver, 1/2 spleen/kidney/pork brain and/or beef organ patties (includes beef heart) PM - Chicken hearts and Pork Hearts TUESDAY: AM - Cornish Hen: Legs, back and diced meat (hopefully enough bone to recover them from the icky organ/heart stools ;D) PM - Pork Muscle Meat: tenderloin, pork chops, sliced belly meat WEDNESDAY: AM - Goat: Stewing chunks and commerical goat with organ PM - Chicken wings and chicken backs + a couple of chicken hearts or pork hearts (snack) THURSDAY: AM - Turkey Necks and split turkey wings PM - Beef (steak, veal or stewing beef) FRIDAY: AM - Lamb: commercial ground with organ, marrow bones, sliced lamb or stewing lamb chunks PM - Whole Quail (bone in) cut into smaller chunks + a couple of pork or chicken hearts (snack) SATURDAY: AM - Chicken necks and eventually frozen-thawed mice PM - Commerical rabbit meat (ground carcass) + chicken gizzards I didn't change too much, just made the organ/heart day one day and mixed a few of the other meals around. I'll also throw whatever goodies I can pick up at the asian market (chicken feet, etc.) in there as treats but I'm pretty happy with that as it is
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Post by katt on May 19, 2011 15:18:53 GMT -5
Looking good. But like I said, see how your fuzz do. Some ferrets can handle heart every other day without a problem, some can't. Supplement with pumpkin see how they do. You can even do menu 1 for a week, then menu 2 for a week, then menu 1, menu 2... etc. Keeps them guessing.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 15:24:19 GMT -5
Sounds like a good idea! I'm sure that variety is good! Just two more quick questions: 1. Should I add some fish in there? What kinds of fish are okay to offer and can they eat the bones? Or should I just add some salmon oil? They are currently getting pumpkin everyday and olive oil every other day, should I cut the olive oil down? Can I do both olive oil and salmon oil? 2. If I do get them eating mice, would a mouse count as a meal? Or a day's worth of food? They would probably only get it once per week so I'm thinking I wouldn't have to cut back on organs or bones or hearts in other meals the way people on 1/2 raw, 1/2 whole prey diets do.
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Post by Heather on May 19, 2011 21:47:42 GMT -5
Hello there ;D I will let you discuss your questions with Katt but yes you can feed fish and no you don't have to adjust your menu to accommodate your prey day As to how much, Katt knows your little ones better than I so I will let her congratulate you and answer your questions. Anyway, I just read your a copy of your menu. I like it Congratulations. you've graduated and you're ready to walk this path alone, now. You have the foundation to help you feed your fuzzes in a more natural and healthy manner. Please remember that your learning never stops, and dietary needs change from ferret to ferret and throughout each their lives. I would also like you to be aware that though you now have the capability and the knowledge to create your little ones diets you are never alone and that your mentor (you need only pm) is always available to you. The list is also a very good resource and you should always be aware that it's available to answer any questions you may have either about diet or care. Good luck, in a few days I will lock down this thread but be aware that you can always look through it as a reference tool but you just will not be able to post to it. Your mentor will be in to congratulate you shortly ;D. ciao
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Post by katt on May 20, 2011 0:16:14 GMT -5
Sounds like a good idea! I'm sure that variety is good!Yep! Like I always say - the more the better! It is good to offer meals in different "presentations" too like the occasional warm meal, cold, room temp, frozen, ground, chopped, whole, soupies etc. Just two more quick questions:
1. Should I add some fish in there? What kinds of fish are okay to offer and can they eat the bones?
Sure! Fish I believe is not typically recommended as a regular part of their diet due to the mercury content of saltwater types and freshwater fish I'm not sure. Canned tuna in water (make sure NO salt added) can be fed as a treat. Also salmon an halibut are good. I believe that mackerel and sardines are the top 2 freshwater fish. Whitefish is really good - esp if you can find ground whitefish (I think it may come in a powder form too? ) it is a very easily absorbed protein (good for IBD babies, post surgery, etc). And yes I am under the understanding that they can eat the bones. Or should I just add some salmon oil? They are currently getting pumpkin everyday and olive oil every other day, should I cut the olive oil down? Can I do both olive oil and salmon oil?Salmon oil is always good. I would personally substitute the olive oil for salmon oil instead. Same benefits only much healthier! You will decide after a few times of giving it how regularly they should have it after you smell them. I don't feed it super often but the oil itself is steeeenkyyy!!!! If they get it on their fur it could make them smell and it makes their breath stinky for a while. It is super good for them though, and makes for deliciously soft and shiny coats! 2. If I do get them eating mice, would a mouse count as a meal? Or a day's worth of food? They would probably only get it once per week so I'm thinking I wouldn't have to cut back on organs or bones or hearts in other meals the way people on 1/2 raw, 1/2 whole prey diets do. Nope think of overall balance. The whole thing should be balanced. If you feed for example one day of whole prey, then the other 6 days of the week should consist of the proper balance of bone:muscle:organ as if day 1 did not even exist. Make sense? So if you fed whole prey 6 days a week, then day 7 should still consist of 80% muscle (including heart), 10% bone 10% organ (half liver half others). Like Heather said, because your meal plan is so nicely balanced, you shouldn't really have to change much if anything at all.
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Post by katt on May 20, 2011 0:19:08 GMT -5
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