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Post by katt on May 11, 2011 3:38:25 GMT -5
Today the girls ate: -Pork chunks (late last night and early this morning) -Quail wings, legs, neck and chopped up meat (lunch) -Lamb chunks and chicken necks (dinner) -Rest of the quail (they are working on this currently).You are doing really well! Keep it up! I am going to give the organs a try tomorrow and I'm also defrosting a whole cornish hen currently. But I was just wondering for the organs... how many organs should they be eating?How many types? or how much/often? They need as much of a variety as you can find: liver (should be approximately half of the total organ meat), spleen, kidney are usually the key organs that you can find in stores. Also brain is really nutritious (like pork brain). As far as amount: 10%, if you feed organs one day a week, then you are usually right on the dot for proper organ amounts. Chicken hearts are fairly small so to meat their weekly need of hearts (taurine), how many hearts should they be eating during a meal? I want to know this more for how many of the hearts should I freeze together in one bag purposes ;DI fill a ziplock sandwich bag almost full and that usually lasts 1-3 meals between my 2 boys, I feed it as the full meal. So I don't count individual hearts, but rather feed a bulk amount based off of how much I know my boys eat in a day. They got chicken hearts tonight actually. They will get the other half of the bag in the morning. In all honesty, that is a small meal for my boys. The hearts will probably be completely gone by the morning. Pictures (*I mixed in pumpkin and some supplement's for Koda's belly as he is sensitive to chicken. Keep in mind that my boys get more than the recommended amount of pumpkin so if you add some it will likely not look as heavily coated as this picture shows*) i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/HurricaneKatt/416f7f67.jpgi985.photobucket.com/albums/ae337/HurricaneKatt/05706737.jpgOr could I put the hearts in an ice cube tray with a couple heart per little ice cube holder? Would they stay fresh enough this way since the ice cube tray isn't sealed. I've got like maybe 50 chicken hearts and about the same amount of gizzards so I'm kind of unsure what to do with them all ;DSee below in my 2nd post I'll see if I can get some pinkie mice... eventually ;D but as far as "whole prey" go, does this just include anything that has all it's part in tact and has skin and fur/feathers on it still? I'm not going to ever feed live, but frozen-defrosted I may be willing to feed. Other than mice, what kind of things can you get? Do you just feed a whole prey diet or can you feed a mix of raw and whole prey?Whole prey is technically anything that consists of the entire animal, but is usually used to refer to rodents, and whole quails and rabbits. So yes - as long as it is completely in tact - fur/feathers, all meat and organs (including head, feet, etc) then it is whole prey. It is whole prey of the intestines (not the "organs" like liver and sleep, but just the gastrointestinal tract) are removed as they tend to leave that part out often anyways. So whole quail=whole prey. And yes, most people who feed whole prey feed a mix of whole prey and raw. The way we feed raw btw is often referred to as "frankenprey" as the object is to create an overall balance resembling whole prey, and the natural diet in the wild. For example, my boys get raw, or "frankenprey," as well as a variety of whole mice and rats. I would LOVE to feed them more whole prey (guinea pig, whole rabbit, hamster, chicks, whole quail, etc) but do not have access and I can't afford companies like RodentPro.
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Post by katt on May 11, 2011 3:51:28 GMT -5
OK for all of your storage needs! ;D Here is what I do. Most other people do this also, or something similar. Step 1: invest in Ziplock stocks Step 2: buy out supplies of Ziplock sandwich bags Step 3: plan your meals Step 4: get masking or painter's tape (or the ziplocks with the label to write on) and put a piece of tape on each bag. Step 5: Buy a LOT of meat (I usually will go and spend like $40 and stock up, and the food will last me several months along with the occasional whole prey, commercial ground raw, and FD food in the mix) Step 6: chop up meat, and portion into bags (I usually do 1-2 days worth of food per bag - and I feed 2 meals a day). Step 7: at some point in the process label exactly what goes into each bag. I use a code. So I might put Chicken hearts, gizzards, and liver, turkey breast, and rabbit leg into a bad (not really but for example's sake) and would label it "Turkey Breast, Rabbit Leg, Chicken HGL" Step 8: pack bags into freezer using the traditional Tetris method Step 9: remove the next day's food the day/night before and put in fridge to thaw. Step 10: feed food, and put next batch in fridge to thaw when first bag is done I also feed meals frozen. It is great to mix it up and keep them interested in things. Feed some meals warm (put the baggie in a bowl of warm water for a while or pop in the microwave *NO bones* for a Very short period of time), feed some cold, some ground, some whole, some frozen...etc. You don't Have to do this but I find it keeps them excited. Frozen foods are fun because they double as food and a toy. This also helps to keep the meal good longer. To thaw, if you forget the night before and don't want to feed it frozen, just put the bag in a bowl of warm water. Change out the water as it cools, or keep the faucet running (I am lazy lol) and it will thaw out nicely.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 14:39:58 GMT -5
Awesome!!! Thank you so much, that was all SUPER helpful! I'm going to keep posting what the girls are eating in a day to help me remember what I'm feeding and so that you can make suggestions on what I should try or what I should feed/more less of, if that sounds all right? Today: Late last night / early this morning: quail body (including bones) covered in pumpkin and some olive oil (yesterday was an olive oil day) Brunch: ground turkey breast with pumpkin and a couple of chopped up chicken hearts (they are still testing the water with them, they will chew on them a bit, then stash them so I'll see if they actually eat them) Dinner: diced stewing beef (first time trying beef... hopefully they will tolerate it all right!) and chicken necks Overnight food: Cornish Hen (probably the legs, wings and neck to start off trying it) We're also having a bit of a missing hair elastic scare (although I'm like 99.9% sure the girls didn't get a hold of it and I lost it somewhere else in the house/outside) so they might be getting a lot more pumpkin and olive oil today and possibly some petroleum jelly or tonic lax depending on how worried I am. But I really don't think they got it, but boy do they like to worry you!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 17:19:56 GMT -5
I found the hair elastic in my house, thankfully so I know for sure they didn't eat it, hurray! I did have one more question though. Now that the girls are eating chicken necks and quail and really liking bones, they aren't as excited to eat the ground turkey or other mushed up meats. Is it normal for ferrets to start to like bigger chunks of meat and bone so much that they no longer want the ground up meats? Should I just stop feeding group meats all together now and go for bigger chunks or whole pieces of meat? I am also starting to find little pieces of bone in their stools (which are looking SO much better now that they are eating more bone). This is normal and safe right?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 21:20:08 GMT -5
So some of the bones in the cornish hen are quite thick...
will they just not eat bones that are too thick for them? like if I give them the legs of the cornish hen and they're too thick for them, they'll just leave them right? They won't crack their teeth or anything?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2011 23:12:58 GMT -5
Sorry, I just keep piling on the questions here for you ;D\
I'm starting to get a little worried that Sophie isn't "liking" the new raw foods I'm trying as much as Olivia. I can feel Olivia gaining weight as she grows (I still haven't weighed them, I will try that tonight), but Sophie still seems so tiny. I do see her eat, but I feel like Olivia eats more in one sitting and that Sophie isn't loving the raw as much as Olivia.
Any suggestions? I don't really want to be force feeding her because she is trying it on her own, I just don't know that she's found food she really loves yet.
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Post by katt on May 12, 2011 4:29:16 GMT -5
I found the hair elastic in my house, thankfully so I know for sure they didn't eat it, hurray! I did have one more question though. Now that the girls are eating chicken necks and quail and really liking bones, they aren't as excited to eat the ground turkey or other mushed up meats. Is it normal for ferrets to start to like bigger chunks of meat and bone so much that they no longer want the ground up meats? Should I just stop feeding group meats all together now and go for bigger chunks or whole pieces of meat? I am also starting to find little pieces of bone in their stools (which are looking SO much better now that they are eating more bone). This is normal and safe right? *phew* Glad you found it! They do like to frighten us! ;D Stinky ferrets. Koda is the master of creating stress. They are learning to eat like real ferrets. I would lean towards mostly whole meat, with the occasional ground meal. It is good to always provide variety - this includes meal "presentation" so to speak. That said, ground is easy on the bellies, but not great for teeth of building jaw muscles. So, yes right now start upping the chunks, increase the chunks size, offer more whole bones, etc. But long-term I would certainly not cut ground meats out of the diet entirely, just don't make it a main part of their diet. And yes the small bone pieces are normal - and good. If you see a massive chunk then there might be cause for concern, but I have never heard of that happening. When you feed whole prey, you often find small bone chunks, and the teeth, nails, and some hair left of the rodent. So some of the bones in the cornish hen are quite thick... will they just not eat bones that are too thick for them? like if I give them the legs of the cornish hen and they're too thick for them, they'll just leave them right? They won't crack their teeth or anything? Feed them, it will be fine. They will eat the parts they can. and lave the parts they can't. Right now their jaws strength is still building, but as they grow you will be amazed at the bones they can crush. Just be sure with all bones to remove any uneaten fragments after 48 hours max because they dry out and can start to splinter.
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Post by katt on May 12, 2011 4:37:23 GMT -5
Sorry, I just keep piling on the questions here for you ;D\ I'm starting to get a little worried that Sophie isn't "liking" the new raw foods I'm trying as much as Olivia. I can feel Olivia gaining weight as she grows (I still haven't weighed them, I will try that tonight), but Sophie still seems so tiny. I do see her eat, but I feel like Olivia eats more in one sitting and that Sophie isn't loving the raw as much as Olivia. Any suggestions? I don't really want to be force feeding her because she is trying it on her own, I just don't know that she's found food she really loves yet. Don't worry too much yet, she is still getting used to it and some ferrets are just slower and more difficult than others. Is she showing any other concerning symptoms? Lethargy, significant weight loss, teeth grinding? If not then I would not worry too much. Try making some soupies (use a recipe you know she really likes, so feel free to add in a little pumpkin and oil) and covering the meat with it like gravy. Also, keep in mind that ferrets are just like people - no two are the same. Koda is naturally very thin. He is what Heather calls a "Greyhound ferret" as he has that almost concerning lean appearance. Kenai on the other hand, is a total chub. Koda is older, but even as a kit he ate much less than what Kenai eats. He also gets less excited about his food - while Kenai will sometimes get so excited for food he is leaping into the feeding den before I even close it, oblivious to the fact that the cage is still open, Koda gives one glance at the food (if that) and then tried to climb out of the cage while I have the door open. I close up and he continues to look at me like "Well aren't you going to let me out?!" while Kenai continues to eat himself into oblivion. Even though your girls are the same age and look similar, there is NO guarantee that they are from the same litter. In fact, by my understanding the way they ship them out chances are very slim they are from the same litter (but not impossible - just unlikely). So on top of individual differences you have potentially significantly different genetics. If she is eating, and not losing weight or showing any other signs of illness, then I would not worry too much just yet. If she IS showing other concerning signs, then a trip to the vet is in order. Also, how do you feel about live prey? Sometimes the hunt can help to get them more excited about eating. While Koda is usually not "crazy" about food like Kenai. he goes nuts for mice (even frozen feeders, but especially live).
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2011 16:13:13 GMT -5
Thanks I actually offered them ground turkey again over night and this time they ate it, so I think they were just being picky earlier for some reason. I will definitely keep some ground meats in. I actually ended up grinding up the stewing beef chunks (they were a little tough for the ferrets to eat in chunks) but my girls just do not like beef. They gagged at the beef organs, they gagged at some beef baby food yesterday (trying to get them eating baby food for when they get sick but they despise it so far, even the chicken one), and today they gagged when I tried to scruff and stuff ground up stewing beef (I even mixed it with pumpkin and put olive oil on to entice them). Is it possible they just don't like beef? Can I just leave beef out of their diet and feed lamb instead? Or should I keep trying? I actually weighed them last night and they are the exact same weight ;D they are both 1.2 lbs according to my digital bathroom scale. I tried to weight themm on my scale I use for the hedgehogs (it's in grams so gives a more exact weight) but they kept jumping off and trying to eat the rubber buttons so I gave up Last thursday at the vet Sophie weighed 0.41kg (0.902lbs) and Olivia weighed 0.43kg (0.946lbs) so it turns out they are both growing like weeds and eating fine. I also discovered that sophie just prefers to eat her food later in the cage when no one's watching or during the night. So I'm thinking that Olivia is just a piggy who loves to devour her meats the second they are in the cage (exactly like your Kenai ;D) whereas Sophie would much rather spend time with me and play (exactly like your Koda ;D). Sophie is eating bone a lot better now too, she's actually finishing off most of her chicken/hen wings and necks. They also ate all of the chicken giblets I offered last night and one of them has decided they kind of like chicken hearts and ate a few of those but left the rest. I don't really have a soupie recipe going yet that she really likes... Do you know of any that are a hit? She seems to like chicken, turkey, quail, hen, those kind of meats best so should I just try throwing some meats and maybe some organs and pumpkin and oil in a blender and see how it turns out? As far as feeding live goes... I am the kind of person who keeps mice for pets ;D I won't even let my parents use lethal mouse traps for the random mice we have living in the house/garage. So from my comfort/moral level: -I'd be okay with feeding frozen-thawed mice (I think, maybe not the pinkies though...they're so tiny and cute ;D) -Not okay with watching them kill anything that is alive -I am not okay with feeding chicks or rabbits (alive or frozen-thawed), I love chicks and bunnies -I am okay with feeding any other whole prey, so for example quail or other birds. yes I know I am kind of a baby ;D I want what's best for my ferrets and I want them to be happy, but If I don't have to feed live or have to feed cute fuzzy things (baby mice, chicks, bunnies, etc.) I would be happier and that way I won't cry when they eat them or feel terrible ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 18:48:52 GMT -5
I made up some delicious soup (ground turkey, water, pumpkin, oil, giblets, a couple of hearts and a pinch of bone meal) and froze the leftovers in ice cube trays. The girls took to it fairly well, but Sophie's still not crazy over it so there goes that plan to get her to eat more by drenching it in tasty soup. Oh well at least they have some soupie ice cubes for hot days now! I think maybe she just only likes to eat at night. I know some people on her only feed once a day, so maybe this is fine? I'm going to start weighing her every couple of days to keep a close eye on her and make sure she's getting enough in her but she's gaining weight and she's pooping so she must be eating. The girls also ate chicken hearts, giblets and chicken livers last night (Sophie really likes the livers) and have lovely dark rich organ poop today. I'm just wondering what I should do next? Try add more variety in meats? Different kinds of organ?
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Post by katt on May 14, 2011 0:41:10 GMT -5
Can I just leave beef out of their diet and feed lamb instead? Or should I keep trying?I would keep trying personally because it is a great source of variety - especially with those organs! Just think - some ferrets do this with every new meat! ;D Treat it like you are switching diets all over again. Make a soupie with a little bit of beef in it, and pour it over foods you know they like. Use scruff and stuff, and get them to lick if off of your fingers, etc until they will eat it. Then gradually increase the amount of beef and decrease the other ingredients. Then thicken the soup gradually, and add chunks gradually, then increase the chunk size and decrease the soupie amounts. Lamb is a GREAT protein though, but it is known for being unpredictable. I have heard multiple stories of ferrets ( including mine) loving lamb, then suddenly deciding they never want to touch it ever again. Or some batches of lamb they love and others they hate. It seems to be an inconsistent kind of meat. It is an amazing meat because it is so gentle on their bellies and if you have a sick ferret (esp one with food allergies) it is a godsend...IF they will eat it. *shakes fist at Koda* Goat is another great meat. Check around your area for an African market - or "Halal meat" (this is goat and lamb) and see what they have. Beef is not necessary, but it is just such an easy source of variety and organ meat that it is worth convincing them to eat it IMO. It kills me that I can't feed beef, but Koda is allergic - it sets off his IBD like wildfire. Personally, I would give it a shot and stick with it for a while. I think they are just being brats and those organ patties are a GREAT resource for organ meat. I have never heard of something like that and am so jealous. If nothing else it is worth it for the sheer variety of organ types within the patties. It is oftentimes hard to find many organs other than liver, especially from a variety of species... I actually weighed them last night and they are the exact same weight ;D they are both 1.2 lbs according to my digital bathroom scale. I tried to weight themm on my scale I use for the hedgehogs (it's in grams so gives a more exact weight) but they kept jumping off and trying to eat the rubber buttons so I gave up Just write it in a log and keep track. They will gain weight, then go through a period where they lose it as they shed their kit weight. Kind of how humans get pudgy, then go through a growth spurt and slim up. lol Only ferrets grow and get pudgy, stay pudgy, then lose al the weight later. Last thursday at the vet Sophie weighed 0.41kg (0.902lbs) and Olivia weighed 0.43kg (0.946lbs) so it turns out they are both growing like weeds and eating fine. I also discovered that sophie just prefers to eat her food later in the cage when no one's watching or during the night. So I'm thinking that Olivia is just a piggy who loves to devour her meats the second they are in the cage (exactly like your Kenai ;D) whereas Sophie would much rather spend time with me and play (exactly like your Koda ;D). haha Sounds like mirror images of my boys. I honestly don't see Koda eating super frequently because if I am in the room and he is awake, he wants to play. When Kenai first came home I was afraid for a little while that Koda was not even getting food because Kenai is such a pig and Koda doesn't eat much, plus waits till later. Sophie is eating bone a lot better now too, she's actually finishing off most of her chicken/hen wings and necks. They also ate all of the chicken giblets I offered last night and one of them has decided they kind of like chicken hearts and ate a few of those but left the rest.Good! I don't really have a soupie recipe going yet that she really likes... Do you know of any that are a hit? She seems to like chicken, turkey, quail, hen, those kind of meats best so should I just try throwing some meats and maybe some organs and pumpkin and oil in a blender and see how it turns out?I have a lot of luck with pureed chicken. Start there (this is so backwards hahaha) Chicken (skinless boneless breasts or tenders are usually easiest, cut into chunks first to put less strain on the blender) and a little water in the mix too of course. Then a teaspoon or so of pumpkin and a little oil if you want. But even just chicken and water makes a fantastic soup. Try it with their favorite meat (so if they like turkey better try that) and experiment with thickness until you find one they like. Then, slowly start adding just a little bit of whatever other meat in there. So beef organ for example, add a tiny bit and convince them to like it. Then add a bit more, then gradually increase the beef, and decrease the chicken. This can takes weeks or more but stick with it. As far as feeding live goes... I am the kind of person who keeps mice for pets ;D I won't even let my parents use lethal mouse traps for the random mice we have living in the house/garage. So from my comfort/moral level: -I'd be okay with feeding frozen-thawed mice (I think, maybe not the pinkies though...they're so tiny and cute ;D) -Not okay with watching them kill anything that is alive -I am not okay with feeding chicks or rabbits (alive or frozen-thawed), I love chicks and bunnies -I am okay with feeding any other whole prey, so for example quail or other birds.
yes I know I am kind of a baby ;D I want what's best for my ferrets and I want them to be happy, but If I don't have to feed live or have to feed cute fuzzy things (baby mice, chicks, bunnies, etc.) I would be happier and that way I won't cry when they eat them or feel terrible ;DNot a baby at all! Each person has their own limits and standards and that is to be expected. Rabbit is such a great meat - if you are not opposed to commercial rabbit (preground commercial raw - can be found at some fancier pet stores) that is an option. If it is rabbit in general, no worries. They won't even know the difference. lol Rodents but no pinkies...well that is backwards of me! ;D I find that pinkies look ugly and disgusting while young mice look cute and puppy like (like fuzzy to small adult size). hahaha Hey, each to her own! If you are ok with f/t rodents, see if you can get some hoppers and small adults. The hardest part is getting them past the fur. They are young so they might go for the mice right off, but this is not always the case. Start by cutting one open and putting some oil in the cut to entice them to taste it. If they don't go for it, then chop the mice up (fuzzies or hoppers here as they are smaller and have less fur) into small pieces (easiest done when partially frozen and much less messy) and mix it thoroughly into their meat (ie chicken chunks and mashed up wings) and be sure to mix it so that the chicken taste gets all over the mouse chunks. Then gradually increase the size of the mouse chunks and decrease the amount of chicken or other meats.
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Post by katt on May 14, 2011 0:46:13 GMT -5
I made up some delicious soup (ground turkey, water, pumpkin, oil, giblets, a couple of hearts and a pinch of bone meal) and froze the leftovers in ice cube trays. The girls took to it fairly well, but Sophie's still not crazy over it so there goes that plan to get her to eat more by drenching it in tasty soup. Oh well at least they have some soupie ice cubes for hot days now!You can make all kinds of soupies. Pretty much any meats you want, water, and blend! Experiment with different mixes. Feed them her and there to keep them familiar with it in case one gets sick. BTW raw soupies is fine for most (if not all) sick ferrets, so don't stress if they don't eat baby food. I think maybe she just only likes to eat at night. I know some people on her only feed once a day, so maybe this is fine? I'm going to start weighing her every couple of days to keep a close eye on her and make sure she's getting enough in her but she's gaining weight and she's pooping so she must be eating.Yup, I think she is fine. She wounds like Koda. And some ferrets are just naturally more slim - like people. Just keep an eye out and as long as she is not losing significant weight (with the exception of when they shed their kit weight) then don't stress. The girls also ate chicken hearts, giblets and chicken livers last night (Sophie really likes the livers) and have lovely dark rich organ poop today.Yum! I'm just wondering what I should do next? Try add more variety in meats? Different kinds of organ?Yes. I want you to make me a list of all of the foods that they will eat right now, and another list of ones you want to try. Then, I want you to start working on a menu. The menu should be for a week of meals and demonstrate proper variety, and balance of muscle (including heart), organs, and bones. (gizzards btw count as muscle meat I forget if I said that before but they are GREAT for teeth!). We will work on the menu and you will be ready to graduate before you know it! PS You said no live, but are you opposed to live fish? Just curious. I havent tried it with my boys but it looks fun! lol
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 19:16:40 GMT -5
Thanks for answering all of my questions! I love how we are going "backwards" and trying to get them to eat raw soups when they're already eating meats and bone ;D I am totally up to trying live fish if I could find some healthy ones! I am okay with ground rabbit and picked up some urban carnivore ground whole rabbit carcass and they seem to be liking it so far! Does that count as "bone-in" meat? It has bone ground up in it, but nothing for them to chew on for their teeth. Good to know that chicken giblets are muscle meat, I was wondering! They really like them so I'm glad they are good for their teeth! The baby food was more for if they ever have to stay at the vet's. Our vet won't feed raw in-hospital, only baby food and non-rehydrated freeze dried and I'm not sure how keen they are on the freeze dried when it's not rehydrateed. I think I'm going to try feeding it as treats and get them a taste for it dry. So Here's the list you requested: What they have tried / will eat:-QUAIL (legs, wings, back, neck, ribcage, diced meat) -CHICKEN (diced chicken breast, chicken necks, chicken wings, chicken backs, raw chicken soup, giblets, hearts, liver) -LAMB (diced lamb shank meat) -ROCK CORNISH HEN (legs, wings, ribcage, back, diced meat) -PORK (diced pork tenderloin) -TURKEY (ground turkey) -RABBIT (ground whole rabbit carcass) What I have in my fridge/freezer for them still to try:-TURKEY (necks, split wings) What I have that they won’t eat currently:-BEEF (ground up stewing beef, organ patties – liver, lung, spleen, kidney, heart, tongue) What I’d like to try (assuming I can find it):-DUCK – I’ve found commercial ground up Duck patties but I’d like to try duck with bones they can chew on instead -MICE – frozen/thawed -PORK (brain, organs, bone in meat… what pork bones can they eat?)-BEEF (bone in meat – what beef bones can they eat?)Any other suggestions for good meats to try? I don't know that I'll be able to find goat... we have a farmer's market here, so I'm going to give that a try and see what I can find. I'm thinking I'm going to feed them 3 meals a day. One first thing in the morning, one around 4pm and one right before bed, so if we could come up with a meal plan for 3 meals a day, 7 days a week that would be SUPER helpful! Once they are older and not eating me out of house and home, and once the summer's over and I'm back to school, I'll switch them back to 2 meals a day since I won't be here for the 3rd meal during the day. I also want to have some variety and be able to feed them raw meat from whatever I'm eating for dinner that night too, so I'd like my weekly menus to have some flexibility too! Let me know where we start with coming up with a meal plan, I'm kind of at a loss! ;D
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Post by katt on May 15, 2011 17:25:10 GMT -5
I love how we are going "backwards" and trying to get them to eat raw soups when they're already eating meats and bone ;Dhaha Yeah....they are silly ferrets. I am totally up to trying live fish if I could find some healthy ones!Cool good to know. I still am not sure of if/how you can get some that are not chemical deposits ::)from the pet store but someone suggested bait fish. That seems like an ok option... I am okay with ground rabbit and picked up some urban carnivore ground whole rabbit carcass and they seem to be liking it so far! Does that count as "bone-in" meat? It has bone ground up in it, but nothing for them to chew on for their teeth. Awesome! Rabbit meat is so good. And yes if it has ground up bones in it it counts as a bone in meat - they are getting the calcium and that is the important thing. Koda seems to do best on commercial raw ground meat as it is easier for him to process. But if you feed it a lot just be sure to offer bones and gizzards and such to clean their teeth a few times a week minimum. Also, you want to check the ingredients if you can to determine if there is also organ, and if possible how much bone:organ:meat. IT is still good for them regardless, but the more you know, the more oyu know how to balance the rest of their diet appropriately. The baby food was more for if they ever have to stay at the vet's. Our vet won't feed raw in-hospital, only baby food and non-rehydrated freeze dried and I'm not sure how keen they are on the freeze dried when it's not rehydrateed. I think I'm going to try feeding it as treats and get them a taste for it dry.Try giving it dry and see what they do. MY boys won't touch it if it is rehydrated. They look at me like "you seriously want me to eat that? Screw you lady!" *facepalm* ;D ;D ;D ;D Your list looks good on variety but now you really need to get in more heart, and more organs. Look for pork heart and pork organs, Asian markets often carry them or you can ask around at local butchers. -DUCK – I’ve found commercial ground up Duck patties but I’d like to try duck with bones they can chew on insteadEven offering the ground will provide some variety, and if there is bone in it there is another bone source right there too. The more variety the better. Look at an Asian or ethnic market for duck - that is where I find mine. Also, some places only carry it seasonally so look in grocery stores and such especially around the holidays. -MICE – frozen/thawedLet me know when you get some and try the methods that I mentioned above. -PORK (brain, organs, bone in meat… what pork bones can they eat?)The only pork bones I have come across that they can eat really are ribs. You can offer them medium bones to gnaw on, but be sure to remove them after 24-48 hours. But all muscle meat is good. Look for pork side, or uncured bacon (same thing) as this is a nice fatty meat that is good for them. Esp if you ever have a ferret that needs to put on weight. Also look for pork hock and pork tail. I have not personally tried these, but they should have cartilage in them and the girls can eat that and perhaps some of the smaller parts of the bone s their jaw strength grows. -BEEF (bone in meat – what beef bones can they eat?)You could give ribs a try and oxtail. But otherwise none that I know of. Look for beef hear too and keep trying with those organ patties. Any other suggestions for good meats to try? Commercial ground meats often have variety that you can't get elsewhere. If they have different meats like pheasant, goat, goose, etc then I would offer those on occasion. Also look for meats that you feed, that are also commercially ground with organs and bones. For example, you might feed turkey muscle meat, but not be able to find turkey hearts and organs, and turkey bones small enough for them to eat, but then you could find a commercial ground turkey that contains organs, hearts, and bones in the ground mix. This is just an example, but you get the drift. This can be a great resource for getting that organ/heart variety that can often be hard to find elsewhere. I don't know that I'll be able to find goat... we have a farmer's market here, so I'm going to give that a try and see what I can find.Hmm farmers market might have it. Google Halal meat, African market, and Asian market in your area. You might be surprised - I know I was! "Halal meat" IS goat and lamb, and African markets usually carry Halal meat (you might also try spelling it Hallal). I'm thinking I'm going to feed them 3 meals a day. One first thing in the morning, one around 4pm and one right before bed, so if we could come up with a meal plan for 3 meals a day, 7 days a week that would be SUPER helpful! Once they are older and not eating me out of house and home, and once the summer's over and I'm back to school, I'll switch them back to 2 meals a day since I won't be here for the 3rd meal during the day.You can even feed 2 meals now you know and just put more meat into each meal. That is totally up to you though, either way is fine. I also want to have some variety and be able to feed them raw meat from whatever I'm eating for dinner that night too, so I'd like my weekly menus to have some flexibility too!
Let me know where we start with coming up with a meal plan, I'm kind of at a loss! ;DThe idea is to come up with a meal plan that demonstrates the proper ratios of muscle:organ:bone. Then you can follow that week's menu as a guideline. So you might substitute turkey necks and pork meat one week, for quail back and wings the next, and pork liver and kidney soup one week, for beef organ patties the next. Make sense? YOU have to come up with an initial menu, then I will help you sort it out and perfect it. So, look at all of the foods that you have them currently eating and plan out a week of meals with what you think is a good balance. Use the menu and the guideline from Jackie as a reference if you need to. It is okay if the menu is totally off to start with - we will be working on it for a bit to get it just right! Don't let it overwhelm you or frustrate you or anything like that. Start with what they will eat now, and then we can work on improving the menu while we work on getting them to eat more organ and heart meat (because right now that is the last thing you are missing). Does that sound doable to you? You are doing fantastic by the way. Keep it up!
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2011 0:17:56 GMT -5
Thanks, sounds perfect I picked up some ground goat (organs included) and some goat stewing chunks ( with bone ) and some ground lamb (organs included) and some lamb bones and some elk tendons (for teething / chewing on). I'm going to try those meats out and I'll come up with a rough meal plan tomorrow and post it tomorrow I'm also checking out an Asian market this week and ill get more organs and hearts this week. In the mean time they've got chicken hearts, chicken livers, the organs in the lamb and goat meat and the beef organs (including heart) assuming I can trick them into eating them. For the rabbit meat, there's no way to know the ratio though because it's only ingredient is "ground rabbit carcass". I think I am going to feed them twice a day otherwise food gets wasted. they are eating turkey wings and pork chunks tonight, yummy! I seem to prefer to feed two kinds of things at once like pork chunks and turkey wings or lamb chunks and chicken necks. Is this okay? There's no way to know who's eating what though so one of them could be eating all of one thing and the other all of the other, so maybe it's better to feed one food at a time?
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