I have more to say but I wanted to add in really quick that the Rescue Remedy for pets vs people - it's all the same thing.
And with the steady weight decline, you really REALLY should get him to the vet because it could easily be something other than adrenal. The hair loss could easily be him blowing his coat for the seasonal change. Adrenal does not necessarily=weight loss. All sorts of things can cause weight loss. Keep in mind bringing in a new baby, whether they get along or not, is stressful. That could easily be contributing to the weight loss as well.
I just posted to Candice why the incontinence ment adrenal to me, this is the link www.ferret-fact.org/SymptomChart.htm and then when the one vet office said 'we dont see adrenal ferrets' as soon as I told her I was bringing him in for incontinence... but yes, i know it could all be different things.
Mojito LOVES the baby.. and we just got baby recently + since hes been around baby his weightloss got a little better not worse.. now its kind of even keeled. I really cant take him in during the week, I work and although I accumulate leave daily, my boss wont let me use it so I have to wait till I can get him in on a saturday. The vet open on sat makes me nervous though, hes the only vet that sees ferrets thats open on sats but apparently hes had several malpractice lawsuits filed against him (mostly in the late 80s) but still im nervous. Im pretty sure TTFR said theres another vet there, a woman, who seems more competent but I dont know her name/if i can make a request. I still have to work out the niches.
I think no matter what, your baby needs to see a vet ASAP. It could be something easily treatable. I would tale TTFR up on her offer and go together. Ask questions, get some tests done, and then go from there. I know it's scary to have a sick baby, but He needs you to be strong for him.
Last Edit: Mar 18, 2011 14:22:32 GMT -5 by Deleted
Thank you, I needed to hear that. Those kind of stories give me hope- plus its goot to hear that Kahlua isnt the only one who does the alligator roll thing and the death bites. I have tried to scruff her and drag a little, gently but with a stern 'No' and she just gets right back up like a zombie- it doesnt even phase her and she goes right back to him. She doesnt seem like shell ever stop, how long would megaweasel shake/alligator-roll-with vanilla bean in one sitting? How long is too long?
It would go on until they were worn out. Like I said, I let it go unless I thought it was really getting out of hand. I mean, I would check her neck everyday, and never any blood. And he would be latched on hard. He was the same way as far as the persistence went... I mean I would literally do it like ten times in a row. Sometimes I would lay him on his back and just hold him down to make him in Vanilla Bean's situation. Idk if that helped or not, and some people may disagree about my techniques but I NEVER HURT him. I did bite his neck back one time lol. But I think letting it go on is what worked best. Trust me, at first I was sooo terrified he was going to rip out her throat or break her neck from the violent shaking, but I just made sure I was supervising.
Idk if anyone else has suggested this, I am typing this on my phone and it's hard to read that much, but traumatize them together. And by that I mean, if they both hate getting baths, bathe them together. Or if they hate the vet, take them together. Take them out on their leashes together. Either being afraid or being excited over new scents and sounds will have them forget about the bickering and focused on what is going on. It helps them to 'bond' when experiences those situations together.
Also, I understand the anxiety, I have an adderall prescription and it REALLY makes me anxious. I worry about a million things at once... over think everything. It just added unnecessary stress. Also, I would unintentionally get really mean and annoyed easily if I took it for several days in a row. I mean, I swear I would fight with my bf over nothing, and this cleared up instantly after I quit taking it. It just wasn't worth the side effects, but I do keep it to help me pull the occasional all-nighter for school. It effects everyone differently.
Until they're worn out? That could be a while.. ohh my. Ive done the bath twice. The first time was a disaster, she didnt even care about the water just about sinking her teeth into his neck/body/ face. Its actually when she almost bit his eye- the second time went better....Sorta... They were fine in the bathtub together, She even let him rest his head on her back when he drifted into the deeper area where Mojio was practicing his jumping, lol- however- when I had them all together on/in the towel pile to dry, she fallowed him to the top of the pile and started right in on him again. He was able to get away on his own and hid in my lap. Im guessing she got distracted (the only reason i can think of why she'd let him go) when Mojito came up to them to see what the screaming was about and when she let SoCo go and he ran to me, she turned around and tired to scruff Mojito who hissed and bit in the general direction of her face until she stopped. They've done car rides together but in seperate carriers... If I put Tequila (the chihuahua) in the fert room or let them into the living room with him, he is distracting enough for a little, basically if she starts running after Tequila's feet and baby does too, she will stop and go after baby instead (much like the begining of Dawn of the Dead when the main character's zombie spouse is chasing her as shes driving away but he totally veers off course to grab the ezier meal--- yea thats Kahlua, the zombie) I want to try to take them out together, though i have to wait a little longer. SoCo still isnt big enough to fit a harness- he is getting mighty close though. I think it will be helpfull, plus the harness will help protect his neck (i think/hope, lol) I havent tried to let her do her thing with him in quite a while since I've been so scared but last night I told my fiancee that we are going to have to do that when he's home on sunday so that he can keep me from seperating them. Hes much better at these kinds of things.
"Also, I would unintentionally get really mean and annoyed easily if I took it for several days in a row. I mean, I swear I would fight with my bf over nothing, and this cleared up instantly after I quit taking it." <--- thats pretty much me. When I don't take it I am so happy but I also am a little.. weird? Its like all my weirdness has been bottled up and then when I dont have my adderall it explodes to the point where Im weirder now then I have have been before, lol. People think im on something whenever im NOT taking my adderall. Plus, when I take my adderall my hands shake less (I do phlebotomy, the steadier my hands are the better) and I never miss my patients when I am on adderall, and they tell me that it didnt even hurt! When I dont take my adderall, I miss patients- I never double stick a PT and when I dont take my pills I have to. I am really sensitive to meds too, the Doc I work for tried to change my ADHD meds annnnd I had a nervous break down and then a panic fit and couldnt stop crying for the rest of the day.. why I was crying, i never knew, but I was crying all day. Annnd one pt got an attitude with me because of my age and weepyness and I almost cursed him out, i had to ask the nurse to draw him for me because I would've lost my job. I am aweful with new meds.. I experience almost every side effect listed. The thing I miss the most though is my writing. I used to be a great writer- I coulda been published (had I been able to finish any book I started) but now I can finish them... but theyre not as good so I havent tried to get them published. I think the anxiety hits me so much harder because I am usually such an incredibly easy going person and if it happens it happens and thats all there is to it. My brothers a big worry wart and I used to tease him about it and he would be like "How do you do it? How do you just go along with everything and have it turn out okay?" and I would say "I dont know that its going to be okay but I know that no amount of worrying will change anything so just go with it and make the best out of the outcome." I try to say stuff like that to myself now but its in vain.
Paulie has a bit of this issue. And I have to say, it stopped ... when he was on the prednisone. Now he is off it and the boy drinks a ton of water (it is one of his favorite treats so I don't think that's totally new ) and piddles a bit. I've thought he's been "leaking" occasionally, and one day noticed what seemed like and enlarged prostrate--just like you were describing. And then, in 10 minutes it was gone.
So I've been neurotic, and something I noticed was it happens when he's all excited--either sniffing or playing. I actually think, in my guys case, there's a little spring manliness happening. I plan to mention it when we go in for our check up this month, but now that I've correlated it with excitement I think back to our family's old fixed male dog--who had a similar issue when excited about anything.
But bring it up at the vet. Just wanted to let you know, Paulie's also started this since post-pred+spring.
Thanks, that is important to know. When you say excited about things are you talking 'marking' or 'red rocket'? Sorry to get graphic but I dont understant
Do you have a place they've never been before? A room, a friend's place? Outside? Where you are right now, in that space, your little girl owns that territory (arguing with her isn't going to change how she feels) Ferrets are territorial. That is deeply ingrained into their psyche. In the wild they wouldn't live together. Males and females are solo, only coming together to procreate. We keep fuzzies in groups, litters, thus keeping them perpetually in "kitdom", a type of limbo. Even though they get older, they don't mature the same way. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that some of our females (males too, but it seems to be an issue with females) who believe that new fuzzies are dangerous to her littermates or her kits. I often think that Lady "B" viewed all those boys has her kits. She meted out discipline and mandatory ear cleanings to all her "kits". Anyone outside of that group was beaten. I think if you're really worried that your little boy is going to get a thorough trouncing that maybe you should wait until he's a bit bigger (this won't take very long) and bolder and let them settle the score then. I know it's hard to watch a trouncing. Like you I used to break them up, not allow any settling of disputes. I realized at a point that I was going to have a dozen fuzzies and 3, 4 or 5 play groups, and then the business grew again. I learned to let them settle disputes on their own. I did watch to make sure no one really got hurt or traumatized and I will admit, the creature that was being traumatized was usually me Very rarely did anyone ever really get hurt. There was often a lot of noise (strangely enough, the ferret doing the beating is often the one that is screaming the loudest ) a lot of scuffling, the sound of little heads being beaten off the floor is very disconcerting, amazing gator rolls but rarely did anyone get hurt. The one thing I did discover....the more often I broke up a fight between fuzzes, the more often they fought. It became "unsettled business" if momma broke it up, and it had to be settle somewhere else. Fights always broke out if I was stressed or upset or tense about how they were going to get along. You've been offered some excellent ideas but in the end they're your fuzzies and only you now how far you're willing to let things go ciao
I wrote a reply to you while I was still at work but due to a patient who was upset about their bill, I didnt have a chance to send it to you. So this is it and then after I will tell you about what happened when I got home.:
--I think outside would be the best bet, however, SoCo is still to small for a harness- hes ALMOST big enough but not quite. I think in a few weeks he will be able to fit into one. When Kahlua is looking for SoCo she makes a sound almost like dooking but more intense and quicker. Shes not a big dooker, persay, usually when she and Mojito used to goof off (or when she and I play or when she plays with Tequila) she will hiss but when shes mad, she dooks. I think shes like.. ferrlexic. When shes searching for SoCo, though, she her dook is way more intense and quicker. Aggitated i guess is the best way to put it, and when she gets a hold of him she becomes dead silent. The only screaming is unfortunately him, but he screams enough for about 6 ferts.
You say fights broke out the more stressed you were about them getting along, and you know I hadn't even thought about that until you said it but now that I do think about it- the nights where I feel the most.. helpless.. like I have no idea what to do or how to help and I feel like the more I try to help the worse I make things- those are the nights when she is extra nasty. I hadnt even put that together before- I'm glad you pointed that out, I will try to destress before going in their room. Its difficult to know that its all my fault, i know its my fault that they keep fighting because I break it up because I am scared and shattered when he cries but I want to make it better, I told my fiancee to help me this sunday (his day off) he is much better about that kind of thing than I am. He will get on me terribly if I break them up infront of them, I know that if I let them go on with it while hes there, I will be calmer too. I think that will help ME a lot so that I can let them work it out. I think his size has a lot to do with my worries, which is why I feel that when hes bigger it will be easier- i really dont think itll be too long before hes bigger- but I really want them over this before it turns into life long hatred/fighting and I know that I am making that worse. I know I am the only one who can make it better. I just need to force myself to stay out of it. It will help to have my fiancee holding my hands behind my back, lol. Either way I am going to give it a shot tonight (I had tried bringing out the ferretvite and she was almost uninterested in him.. then he came up and tried to lick it WITH her. I thought maybe that would be helpful.. maybe they'd both be enthrawled.. Needless to say, it wasnt helpful.)
One question though, is it normal for him to be all introverted when its over. He just curls up and shakes and has this distant look in his eyes and hes just very.. dispondent. When she first started, he would get dispondent the rest of the evening/night but the older he gets the less time he spends 'depressed'--
So, after getting home I decided to be a big girl and just let her do her thing. I let them out together, all three of them and I let her grab him- she shook him around for a while and then she dragged him around for a while (this was the first time shes actually dragged him) and then she started shaking him worse. The entire time he was being really submissive until she started shaking him worse then he looked right at me and started reaching for me- he looked petrified and his screaming was worse (which i didnt think he could scream worse then his past screams) so I seperated them... i just couldnt take it. I think its a good thing that I did because he has little marks on his neck where she bit him. Its not actually bleeding but it is VERY much blood colored- like two extremely small hickies. He didnt complain as much after words and his little 'depression' thing only lasted a few minutes, then he was hopping around my feet again. While he was being despondent I tried to take pictures, its kinda hard to see the 'wounds' for lack of a better term but here you are:
Should I keep going even if hes black and blued? Im pretty sure if I would have left him a little longer she would have drawn blood. Does that make this hopeless or do I still have a chance with the zylkene for her and sudocrem on his neck? Ive heard putting ferretvite on both of their noses can help, but wont that be like treating her for biting him, if she bites him?
I also have a video of what she does when hes in his mini-part time cage that he almost never uses and shes out and about. I am waiting for youtube to load it atm
First- let's start with the adrenal. Since he's symptomatic, he likely DOES have it. And not taking him in because you can't make yourself just doesn't work. You HAVE to take him in. Sinnead's been adrenal for 3 years now. She's 7. She gets her monthly shots, and now has a melatonin implant, because the lupron finally quit working quite as well as it once had. She dooks, dances, plays, wrestles, and carries on just the same as the others do. Yes, she sleeps more- but she's 7 YEARS OLD! So she's allowed ;D Sorry- but being scared to have your fears confirmed is not a good enough reason not to have him treated. Now, SoCo and Kalhua. Take them both into the bathroom, toss a couple of towels on the floor, and a few toys(but no tubes!). And close the door. Put them down, and stand back. You should be able to get to them anywhere in a bathroom. Yes, they will fight. Likely a lot. There will be a LOT of screaming. Sooner or later, they'll decide they've had enough. It took me 3 weeks before I separated Lucrezia from Zeus and Athena during play times. I let them have at it as often as they needed to. I also did that bathroom thing with Athena and Lucrezia. It was hard to watch, especially since Lucrezia is a big, muscular girl, and Athena just over half her size. I finally quit putting them all out together when Zeus and Athena were refusing to even come out of their cage, and when I pulled them out, they'd run and hide and stay there shaking for a few hours. That's when I realized they'd never get along.
I know its not, which is why I want to have him treated. I didnt mean I dont want to have him treated- i am just REALLY scared about it... and I had a small panic fit thing. I appologize for seeming like I wasnt going to take him- i just am really scared about it. I posted some pictures in a reply to Heather of what he looked like after the first round, which i (admittedly) broke up. He looked petrified and was reaching out toward me and I am a big wuss sooo I broke it up. I kinda think that wasnt such a bad idea because he has two REALLY black and blue marks from her upper fangs. It looks as though if I let it go a little longer, she wouldve drawn blood. Should I keep going or wait and get that sudocreme for the back of his neck and the zyklene for her?
He wants to play with her so I guess thats a good sign still, right? He is much more intelligent than she is giving him credit for, im sure if she had bit, shook and dragged him around then released he would've gotten the picture- I think it was when she stopped dragging him and started shaking violently again and he screamed worse then hes ever screamed befor he looked dead at me and reached out, he had pure terror in his eyes-- im pretty sure thats when she made the bruises. I seperated them, though I was upset with myself for it- until I saw the bruises then I thought I better ask before moving on and trying again. His dispondent depression thing lasted a lot less time though, Id like to put him back in with her but I am a little disheartened by the bruising. Pics are included in the reply to Heather though they arent very good unfortunately, sorry
I voche on taking him to the vet as well. I know adrenal does put a cap on things but than look at monster. He had adrenal...yet what killed him was something totaly different. Lupron is roughly 50 + 30 for the visit. Not a huge amount at all and I can come with you and be the head coach if you want to stand back and just listen.
Dingo's my first ever soul adrenal kid so I can't speak of how long they live with the disease. But your boy is heathier than dingo was when he first showed signs. He might be a good canidate for surgery. Dingo never was and never will. His moods are too up and down bi-polar like, and his health just never got good enough for long enough to determine he recover from the pain and depression of surgery.
Let me know if you want me to set up a app. They are open sats.
That sounds good, I appreciate it. I am so nervous!! Thank you so much, Im going to have to call the office and see when they can see him, did you happen to get the name of the lady who put Monster down, I think I'd rather see her since Dr. T's history makes me a little nervous.
As for the marks on his neck- my vet refers to them as "war wounds". Mine get those when playing roughly. But by now- I'm thinking you're further ahead to wait til she gets the zylkene, and he gets the sudo cream. They've been broken up enough now that she's convinced she can now chase him off successfully if she just keeps at it long enough. So, yes- I'd now wait. That intense dooking is her looking for him.
Ferrets: Contessa Kitties: Watson, Oskar DIP Sinnead, Vincent, Boris, Zeus and Athena, Willow, Mr. Frodo, Indie, Lucrezia, Judge, Odin, Miss Emily, Suki, Cody, Aristotle, Butterscotch, Frankenfurter. RIP Herne, Ligeia, and Mr. Stubbs
I agree. You have to treat the adrenal. You have to do something. Even if it's melatonin. I usually start treating with melatonin and move on up the scale. I've got 3 yrs so far with Pooka. She's dying now, I know this but it's old age. She's 10 yrs old...or at least she will be next month. ciao
10 years old is a good long life. I never ment that I wasnt going to treat it, I will definately treat it. I was just scared and jumping to conclusions, seeing the worst in things- etc- because i was having a small anxiety attack. Theres a lot going on, im sorry for sounding a little nutty. I never ment that I was going to put him to sleep immediately or not treat it. Im just scared of tackling an unknown- I am also pretty new to this anxiety thing. I just started adderall about 2 years ago and just this past year they upped it, I am def. more anxious now where as I used to be the one teasing my brother for over-thinking everything and getting irrational. Now I know how he feels, I guess this is what I get for teasing him.
You've got ferrets darlin' - get used to the anxiety! They cause ALL of us that one ;D
Ferrets: Contessa Kitties: Watson, Oskar DIP Sinnead, Vincent, Boris, Zeus and Athena, Willow, Mr. Frodo, Indie, Lucrezia, Judge, Odin, Miss Emily, Suki, Cody, Aristotle, Butterscotch, Frankenfurter. RIP Herne, Ligeia, and Mr. Stubbs
I think its important to bring up too, as I think Jennifer said, all ferrets seem to get adrenal in the end. It may not be why they leave us, but they are susceptible to it from the moment they are fixed. Get him checked and treat so that you can extend the normalcy of life with your baby. Vets a trained to help us care for our animals when our own knowledge and abilities are not enough. (And maybe get some RR to help you go get that tooth taken care of [or sedation dentist?]. I'm no fan of the dentist either, but that sounds like something serious--take care of yourself so you can take good care of those loving fuzzums.) Take care!
Thank you, I will. I dont know if the dentist open on sats does sedation though I should ask. I wounder if theres a sedation gyno? lmao. I think thats worse than the dentist, found out a few days ago that the best rt for them to see whats really going on with my cysts and the pelvic pain that may stem from tons of scar tissue from when the cysts "pop" (which they should use the expression, explode cuz thats what it feels like) they are going to make two small incisions over my ovaries and send in very tiny cameras- I know Ill be out cold for this but I dont like thed idea/thought. Ughh... And my fiancee wants me to get that done before I take Mojito to the vet--- uhm, no way works going to give me time off for that (even though I earned it and I have it. They havent approved ONE day off for me yet this year!! ) so now I have to come up for the money to take Mojito all on my very own AND keep the visit a secret from my fiancee. FFuuNN. Thank you though I am going to do some research on the implants that Candice was talking about and I might end up bringing them all in for said implants.
This is after she bit him hard enough to leave the marks. One good note, though, is that I was TRYING to get video of how they bite at eachother through the bars BUT by the time I got my iTouch out they had already stopped (so like maybe a minute after I put him in his tiny temp cage that he hardly ever uses)
Sherry: I just saw your reply about waiting for the sudocreme and zyklene, will do. Thought this may be interesting though. I dont think you can really hear the intense search dook but, she was doing it.
Here is Willow and Lucrezia: And another of Willow: Willow was about 6 months old in these. This is what we did three weeks of before Zeus and Athena decided she was too much for them:
Ferrets: Contessa Kitties: Watson, Oskar DIP Sinnead, Vincent, Boris, Zeus and Athena, Willow, Mr. Frodo, Indie, Lucrezia, Judge, Odin, Miss Emily, Suki, Cody, Aristotle, Butterscotch, Frankenfurter. RIP Herne, Ligeia, and Mr. Stubbs