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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 17, 2011 15:49:36 GMT -5
they are animals and we just have to accept that they have to establish a pecking order. sometimes they'll drag eachother around for months. ferrets have very thick skin so i wouldn't worry as long as you don't see blood. sometimes when you rush the introduction phase, the bullying is worse. introduce them slowly a few minutes a day, increased each day and try to make it somewhere that is neutral ground for both of them. like a room in the house that she normally is not allowed in. when you bring him around her, give her a treat so that she associates him with good things. one day he might be bigger than she is and then he'll show her what he's made of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 16:04:50 GMT -5
okay i have a few suggestions, maybe get a play pen to introduce the two of them in? take them in the bathroom or somewhere where there isnt places for them to sneak off to. second suggestion i have is if you have them separated with different blankies, switch their blankies so they can smell each other all the time. if it works to bone ferrets to humans why not ferrets to other ferrets? others will say dont let them beat each other up but the only way tia got over her blood thirst for my boys was to let her beat them up and in turn get beat up by the boys. maybe he needs to get bigger. what is the size ratio? if hes bigger it doesnt matter how much faster she is. It is really hard to let them dook it out but sometimes its what they need as for losing fur and weight it is spring so there are chances that that is just seasonal. i dont know that him not being able to hold his bladder is a sign of adrenal maybe some of the other ladies can chime in on this but other than tia looking like she is going to break she runs with the best of them and doesnt seem to have a less full life at all When he is in his cage or the carrier and she is outside, she will try to get him through the bars. This is dying down but she will still do it for a little while, when she stops she just sniffs around his stuff. He sleeps free roam in our ferret room, i have had him sleep alone in her and Mojito's cage while they slept free roam. I have taken his sleep sack and put it in the cage for her to sleep with, in the morning she had, i guess, pushed? it out half way?.. He might have come and tried to pull it through the bars but I think she pushed it through the bars because he generally doesnt climb the outside of the cage.. and it was on the top level. I have let Mojito sleep free roam with SoCo so that he would have SoCo's smell on him for her to sniff, by the same token SoCo would be able to smell her on Mojito all through the night. None of that seemed to alter anything in any way, shape or form unfortunately. Thats why I broke down and ordered RR. It will be a week tomorrow, still havent seen much difference except that they're all sleepier. If this doesnt work I am going to try this goo stuff for the back of SoCo's neck so he'll taste bad, sherry told me about, and also another natural remedy thing that sherry and heather told me about that had worked for someone in the past. I have tried to let her go with him and thats what has traumatized me, she doesnt stop.. she just seems to get more and more vicious. I dont know how long to let a tussle go for- I dont know if she is physically able to break his neck. I know that shes gotten really vicious and that Im scared and exsasperated. Ever persistant though. I think maybe if he was bigger it'd help. Not counting his tail, he was about the length of her tail when we brought him home- he has grown like a weed since then but he's still pretty small against her- however, he is going to be a giant. His mouth is so big compared to hers, im pretty sure that if he had the chance he could fit her muzzle in his mouth. But like I said, hes still only about half her size, maybe a little more. Mojito has weightloss that had been persistently declining, albiet slowly, since late november/early december up until we brought baby home. Now its kind of flatlined, hes still thin but its not getting anyworse, It has gotten better than the worst: I check on them every morning before work and one morning he was as fine as he had been but that night it didnt seem like he'd moved all day from the place he was sleeping in the hammock, when I took him out he was wobbling. The previous night he'd been fine and like I said, that morning he wasnt any different but when i got off work, he was wobbling. He is no longer that thin, hes buffed up a little bit since we got Baby SoCo but he still isnt where he used to be IMO still stick skinny. The incontinence has been on and off since late dec-early jan if im remembering correctly (dont have my notes atm) he has mounted Kahlua more than once and he has significant hairloss on his feer and thinning on his tail. He also does this thing, I dont knwo if hes weird or if its a symptom (and if it is a symptom I dont know that its def an adrenal symptom) but when hes walking by the opening of their tunnels he lifts his leg and rubs his 'wee-wee' on the opening, he has also had an enlarged prostate that seemed to unenlarge on its own and come back and go away and come back and.... well you get the picture. I have tried to convince myself, my fiancee has tried to convince me and my mom has too- that I am just overly worrying and that its all in my head and these things arent happen or they are something natural/normal - etc etc etc.. but I really dont think that any of those are the case. I am not positive which is why I'm going to take him to the vet (since, like the dentist, i finally found one thats open on a saturday) Im just scared, have no one to talk to and I had a little break down. I needed pusing
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 16:08:56 GMT -5
RR is wayyyyy safer than Zanex! I looked at the Pet and the regular one Whole Foods sells and I could see absolutely no difference other than one is labeled "pet" perhaps as a gimmick. Someone tell me if that's right or not, but I didn't notice any diff. I agree with Katt on what she said about adrenal and suffering, there really shouldn't be any and in the worst-case scenario it means cancers spread and surgery, yep. It's also shedding season right now, so unless there's big 'ol bald patches it's possible there's nothing to worry about, at least you won't know till you take him in. I'd check it out if I were worried. The Deslorelin, to my understanding, simply dissolves and they don't remove it when it's time for a new one. It's put in like a microchip through a needle. I doubt very much the injection site would get infected, but you just need to keep the area clean, antibacterial cream, and the vet might even prescribe some antibiotics (not sure). Mustelidmusk has used them. If you want me to send you a couple of weighty Deslorelin info articles that my vet sent me, PM me your e-mail address and I gladly will. Wonderful! I will take it when i get home then! I cant have zanex ne more because its addictive and so is adderall. I never used to have anxiety attacks before I started taking adderall but then again I didnt do anything to get anxious about, if that makes sence. I will PM you, the more info i can cram in my head/notebook the better. I appreciate it, the Deslorelin sounds promising. Thank you
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 16:23:33 GMT -5
The bottle I have says to place 4 drops of RR in a small amount of water and drink, or drop 4 drops under your tongue, either way. Then repeat as necessary. (Takes about 10-20 minutes for me to notice effects.) Before you decide it's adrenal you can do testing like a Tennessee Blood Panel. The fact that he's peeing without control doesn't have anything to do w/adrenal as far as I know. The vet might even think it's something else entirely because of that particular issue.
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Post by katt on Mar 17, 2011 16:25:59 GMT -5
I have more to say but I wanted to add in really quick that the Rescue Remedy for pets vs people - it's all the same thing.
And with the steady weight decline, you really REALLY should get him to the vet because it could easily be something other than adrenal. The hair loss could easily be him blowing his coat for the seasonal change. Adrenal does not necessarily=weight loss. All sorts of things can cause weight loss. Keep in mind bringing in a new baby, whether they get along or not, is stressful. That could easily be contributing to the weight loss as well.
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Post by katt on Mar 17, 2011 16:30:26 GMT -5
Also urination issues could be due to prostate issues (which may or may not be related to adrenal). He needs to see a vet. I know you are stressed but if it is something treatable you need to get him treated or it could get worse. Even if it is adrenal, then the sooner you treat the better as you will help bring the adrenal gland out of crazy mode and keep it from becoming cancerous/fully diseased quite so soon.
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Post by maddy on Mar 17, 2011 17:11:51 GMT -5
Just a note. When I brought vanilla bean (a tiny deaf female dew) home, megaweasel (an adult male weighing over 3 lbs at the time) would drag her down like a lion taking down a zebra. He would alligator roll with her and bite her neck and do the kill shake. She would scream and they would do this constantly. I typically left it alone unless he made her poop, surprisingly there was never any blood. If he got too rough, I would do the same he did to her to him. I told him no and pinched his neck and drug a little. This was not rough, but I was reminding him that he's not king of the castle. It took a few hard months, but now they really get along and always sleep together. They still wrestle, but I swear it made vanilla bean the the fastest and most agile ferret I have ever seen. He tries to take her down now, and the few times he actually catches her she escapes in the blink of an eye. Thank you, I needed to hear that. Those kind of stories give me hope- plus its goot to hear that Kahlua isnt the only one who does the alligator roll thing and the death bites. I have tried to scruff her and drag a little, gently but with a stern 'No' and she just gets right back up like a zombie- it doesnt even phase her and she goes right back to him. She doesnt seem like shell ever stop, how long would megaweasel shake/alligator-roll-with vanilla bean in one sitting? How long is too long? It would go on until they were worn out. Like I said, I let it go unless I thought it was really getting out of hand. I mean, I would check her neck everyday, and never any blood. And he would be latched on hard. He was the same way as far as the persistence went... I mean I would literally do it like ten times in a row. Sometimes I would lay him on his back and just hold him down to make him in Vanilla Bean's situation. Idk if that helped or not, and some people may disagree about my techniques but I NEVER HURT him. I did bite his neck back one time lol. But I think letting it go on is what worked best. Trust me, at first I was sooo terrified he was going to rip out her throat or break her neck from the violent shaking, but I just made sure I was supervising. Idk if anyone else has suggested this, I am typing this on my phone and it's hard to read that much, but traumatize them together. And by that I mean, if they both hate getting baths, bathe them together. Or if they hate the vet, take them together. Take them out on their leashes together. Either being afraid or being excited over new scents and sounds will have them forget about the bickering and focused on what is going on. It helps them to 'bond' when experiences those situations together. Also, I understand the anxiety, I have an adderall prescription and it REALLY makes me anxious. I worry about a million things at once... over think everything. It just added unnecessary stress. Also, I would unintentionally get really mean and annoyed easily if I took it for several days in a row. I mean, I swear I would fight with my bf over nothing, and this cleared up instantly after I quit taking it. It just wasn't worth the side effects, but I do keep it to help me pull the occasional all-nighter for school. It effects everyone differently.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 17:43:08 GMT -5
About the incontinence: Paulie has a bit of this issue. And I have to say, it stopped ... when he was on the prednisone. Now he is off it and the boy drinks a ton of water (it is one of his favorite treats so I don't think that's totally new ) and piddles a bit. I've thought he's been "leaking" occasionally, and one day noticed what seemed like and enlarged prostrate--just like you were describing. And then, in 10 minutes it was gone. So I've been neurotic, and something I noticed was it happens when he's all excited--either sniffing or playing. I actually think, in my guys case, there's a little spring manliness happening. I plan to mention it when we go in for our check up this month, but now that I've correlated it with excitement I think back to our family's old fixed male dog--who had a similar issue when excited about anything. But bring it up at the vet. Just wanted to let you know, Paulie's also started this since post-pred+spring.
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Post by Heather on Mar 17, 2011 18:11:24 GMT -5
Do you have a place they've never been before? A room, a friend's place? Outside? Where you are right now, in that space, your little girl owns that territory (arguing with her isn't going to change how she feels) Ferrets are territorial. That is deeply ingrained into their psyche. In the wild they wouldn't live together. Males and females are solo, only coming together to procreate. We keep fuzzies in groups, litters, thus keeping them perpetually in "kitdom", a type of limbo. Even though they get older, they don't mature the same way. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that some of our females (males too, but it seems to be an issue with females) who believe that new fuzzies are dangerous to her littermates or her kits. I often think that Lady "B" viewed all those boys has her kits. She meted out discipline and mandatory ear cleanings to all her "kits". Anyone outside of that group was beaten. I think if you're really worried that your little boy is going to get a thorough trouncing that maybe you should wait until he's a bit bigger (this won't take very long) and bolder and let them settle the score then. I know it's hard to watch a trouncing. Like you I used to break them up, not allow any settling of disputes. I realized at a point that I was going to have a dozen fuzzies and 3, 4 or 5 play groups, and then the business grew again. I learned to let them settle disputes on their own. I did watch to make sure no one really got hurt or traumatized and I will admit, the creature that was being traumatized was usually me Very rarely did anyone ever really get hurt. There was often a lot of noise (strangely enough, the ferret doing the beating is often the one that is screaming the loudest ) a lot of scuffling, the sound of little heads being beaten off the floor is very disconcerting, amazing gator rolls but rarely did anyone get hurt. The one thing I did discover....the more often I broke up a fight between fuzzes, the more often they fought. It became "unsettled business" if momma broke it up, and it had to be settle somewhere else. Fights always broke out if I was stressed or upset or tense about how they were going to get along. You've been offered some excellent ideas but in the end they're your fuzzies and only you now how far you're willing to let things go ciao
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Post by Sherry on Mar 17, 2011 18:21:16 GMT -5
First- let's start with the adrenal. Since he's symptomatic, he likely DOES have it. And not taking him in because you can't make yourself just doesn't work. You HAVE to take him in. Sinnead's been adrenal for 3 years now. She's 7. She gets her monthly shots, and now has a melatonin implant, because the lupron finally quit working quite as well as it once had. She dooks, dances, plays, wrestles, and carries on just the same as the others do. Yes, she sleeps more- but she's 7 YEARS OLD! So she's allowed ;D Sorry- but being scared to have your fears confirmed is not a good enough reason not to have him treated. Now, SoCo and Kalhua. Take them both into the bathroom, toss a couple of towels on the floor, and a few toys(but no tubes!). And close the door. Put them down, and stand back. You should be able to get to them anywhere in a bathroom. Yes, they will fight. Likely a lot. There will be a LOT of screaming. Sooner or later, they'll decide they've had enough. It took me 3 weeks before I separated Lucrezia from Zeus and Athena during play times. I let them have at it as often as they needed to. I also did that bathroom thing with Athena and Lucrezia. It was hard to watch, especially since Lucrezia is a big, muscular girl, and Athena just over half her size. I finally quit putting them all out together when Zeus and Athena were refusing to even come out of their cage, and when I pulled them out, they'd run and hide and stay there shaking for a few hours. That's when I realized they'd never get along.
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Post by ttfr on Mar 17, 2011 21:02:24 GMT -5
I voche on taking him to the vet as well. I know adrenal does put a cap on things but than look at monster. He had adrenal...yet what killed him was something totaly different. Lupron is roughly 50 + 30 for the visit. Not a huge amount at all and I can come with you and be the head coach if you want to stand back and just listen. Dingo's my first ever soul adrenal kid so I can't speak of how long they live with the disease. But your boy is heathier than dingo was when he first showed signs. He might be a good canidate for surgery. Dingo never was and never will. His moods are too up and down bi-polar like, and his health just never got good enough for long enough to determine he recover from the pain and depression of surgery. Let me know if you want me to set up a app. They are open sats.
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Post by Heather on Mar 17, 2011 21:06:45 GMT -5
I agree. You have to treat the adrenal. You have to do something. Even if it's melatonin. I usually start treating with melatonin and move on up the scale. I've got 3 yrs so far with Pooka. She's dying now, I know this but it's old age. She's 10 yrs old...or at least she will be next month. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 23:57:05 GMT -5
I think its important to bring up too, as I think Jennifer said, all ferrets seem to get adrenal in the end. It may not be why they leave us, but they are susceptible to it from the moment they are fixed. Get him checked and treat so that you can extend the normalcy of life with your baby. Vets a trained to help us care for our animals when our own knowledge and abilities are not enough. (And maybe get some RR to help you go get that tooth taken care of [or sedation dentist?]. I'm no fan of the dentist either, but that sounds like something serious--take care of yourself so you can take good care of those loving fuzzums.) Take care!
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Post by darlene on Mar 18, 2011 0:09:55 GMT -5
I think if you're really worried that your little boy is going to get a thorough trouncing that maybe you should wait until he's a bit bigger (this won't take very long) and bolder and let them settle the score then. I agree with the above statement. Personally I would give the little guy some time to grow and gain his confidence before putting him back with the other one. It will be just a short time before his big enough. JMO
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2011 14:07:31 GMT -5
The bottle I have says to place 4 drops of RR in a small amount of water and drink, or drop 4 drops under your tongue, either way. Then repeat as necessary. (Takes about 10-20 minutes for me to notice effects.) Before you decide it's adrenal you can do testing like a Tennessee Blood Panel. The fact that he's peeing without control doesn't have anything to do w/adrenal as far as I know. The vet might even think it's something else entirely because of that particular issue. When he first started with the incontinence I got really worried and the first vet I tried to take him to wouldnt see him. All they asked were his symptoms and when i said urinery incontinence they said, "Sorry, we don't see adrenal ferrets." and that was that. I didn't think it had anything to do with adrenal either so after they said that I looked it up and found a seemingly reputible site (maybe I can still find the link) where the causes for incontinence were UTI, UT stones or Adrenal Dz. I guess that plus what the receptionist/nurse (?... kinda seems like a receptionist wouldnt know that) said + his other issues it was like 2+2=4, you know? heres the link btw: www.ferret-fact.org/SymptomChart.htm
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