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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 0:34:58 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and the spaghetti slivers worked awesome!!! They definitely prefer this to chunky style slivers! Thanks for the tip
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Post by Sherry on Jan 2, 2013 1:13:44 GMT -5
That's fantastic Now we know what's going to work for most of them Keep doing this for 2-3 days, and slowly increase the slivers and decrease the soup. For now, keep trying to push pogo a bit, but we'll focus on him later. As always, feed slivers first and his soup last. What I'm hoping for at some point is that it will become a case of "monkey see monkey do" with him. And if you aren't already, make sure they always have some straight slivers left in the cage when they go back in to nosh on if they want. Not a lot, but a few. This will hopefully start encouraging them to eat on their own time as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 1:52:06 GMT -5
Ok, can do. As for leaving the slivers in the cage - I thought they went bad fairly quickly when slivered??? I have no problem leaving some in the cage, but I'll need to get another crock as I haven't been leaving anything in their cage since they went off kibble (just a water dish/crock). My boys are free roam (except for when we are asleep or away from the house) so they don't really spend much time in the cage. Should I leave slivers throughout the house as well, or just in the cage and change them out every so often?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 2:02:52 GMT -5
Also, I forgot to ask - my boys ate quite a bit less today than normal. Part of this is because I only fed them twice as I wanted to make them hungry enough to eat the slivers, and i'm sure part of the reason is also because they all ate about 1/4oz of slivers and I'm sure it is more filling. But considering that they all ate only about 4oz (some less) I'm worried they didn't eat enough (they usually eat more around 7-8oz each a day). Should I be worried? Or am I just being an overreactive Momma Or do I need to push it back to 3 feedings?
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Post by Sherry on Jan 2, 2013 10:31:39 GMT -5
Actually, 4 oz is a much more reasonable amount for them to be eating And it's because they are eating something denser, rather than a watery soup. So yeah, being overreactive, ;D Just leave the food where you want them to be eating it, whether that's in the cage or in a feeding den elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 1:08:22 GMT -5
Wow, I can't believe it's been almost a week since I last responded. I was waiting for good news from the sliver-side before I wrote in. Also, I'm not well so I'm a bit off and will be for a while, but I'll keep you updated, and I have no doubt I'll be having some more questions soon.
Weights (as of yesterday): Bandit - 1576g Pogo - 1080g Mischief - 1238g Tak - 1218g My work schedule changed yet again so I've been working a bit more the past few days, but in a day or two I'll also get you their most recent vet weight as well as a comparison. Also, since my BF has decided he is good at weighing the boys (and actually has fun doing it) that he will weigh them for me every couple of days while we keep working on the slivers, so I'll post these as I get them.
Individual food update: Bandit is eating just about anything we put in front of him, though he will push his slivers aside and eat all his soup first. He will also take slivers from my hand, but he isn't fond of this method. Pogo will only eat a sliver if he accidentally sucks one up with his soup (though most of the time he will spit it out). We put a few slivers in his soup to try to get him use to it, but he still won't even eat the chunkier parts of the soup let alone the slivers. I am really at a loss with how to switch Pogo. He will hold out multiple feedings without eating much if we even attempt slivers that are detectable. He literally gags if I try to hand feed him slivers (LITERALLY). I'm up for ideas with this one. And mind you, Pogo is the most determined, stubborn, pig-headed fert I've met, and spiteful to boot. Mischief will eat slivers both on a plate and by hand, especially if he is hungry, but he has yet to finish a whole plate during mealtime. He is really fond of multiple feedings thruout the day, but we are really pushing to do only 2 and he doesn't like it. He will eat the slivers we offer him between meals, but he won't eat much. Tak is a vaccuum. He eats from EVERYBODY'S dish. He will eat slivers any way you offer them, but like Mischief he has yet to really finish a full meal. Instead he is a grazer and will come back to the food dish multiple times throughout the day. He is also not a fan of the 2 time a day feedings.
Group food update: So for about 4 days we did about .25oz slivers to varying amounts of soup and things went pretty well. At this time we were feeding 3 times a day and making the soup warm. Over the past couple of days we have upped the sliver amount to as much as 1oz each, but it ends up being wasted. I decided to do a more gradual sliver uppage than recommeded as they were all becoming sluggish with their eating. So we went from about 1/4 slivers each meal for 4 days to 1/2 slivers each meal the past 2 days, and it seems we are now stalling out. We even switched to the 2-time-a-day feedings when we switched to the 1/2 slivers 1/2 soup meals to make them hungrier, but it isn't working very well. They aren't eating nearly as much as they were, to the point that I KNOW they are still hungry. Tonight I became a little concerned when none of them would even eat an ounce, slivers or soup after multiple attempts both on the plate and by hand (They each got .75oz slivers to 1oz soup - except Pogo). So just as a test I heated up some soup and ALL OF THEM SNORTED the stuff. They were OBVIOUSLY still hungry but wouldn't touch their plates for more. Should I just not worry about this as they may be just playing us, or should I slow it all down? Granted, we have thrown a lot on them - in a weeks time we have gone from minimal slivers to half of their meal being slivers, while cutting back to 2 feedings a day, also while making the soup less and less warm. I feel like I am doing something wrong here, like I've missed a step. Are we on track?
I'm super excited the boys (minus Pogo of course, the little weenie) have decided they like slivers, but I'm unhappy with how much they are eating and how hungry they are keeping themselves. They are being so STUBBORN!!!
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Post by Sherry on Jan 8, 2013 9:41:05 GMT -5
OMG, you have SUCH stubborn brats ;D For right now, keep on as you have been and continue to up the sliver to soup ratio. And again, make sure to leave some in the cage for between meals. Pogo gets fed after the others eat since he's such a princess ;D Also that way, you know he's eaten something, and hopefully as the others get better he'll pick up on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 12:59:46 GMT -5
So we have better news this morning. Bandit, Mischief, and Tak all ate their entire plate which each consisted of 2oz soup and .75oz slivers (for a total of 1.75oz of actual meat as my soup is a 1:1 ratio water to meat mix). Yes, it was 2:1 soup to slivers, but actual meat wise it was about 1:1. I am going to keep at this ratio for another day or so to make sure they all continue to eat everything on the plate, then I'm going to up the slivers and lower the soup, and so on. Tak, however, took about an hour to eat his total plate. I've never seen a fert eat like him. He really is a grazer. He doesn't like to eat a lot at one time, but he does finish his meal eventually. As for Pogo, I tried giving him .2oz of tiny slivers with his 2.5oz of soup and he literally ate all the soup around the slivers but not a single sliver It seemed in your last post like you thought I was feeding the boys all together, out of one plate. I'm not sure if I read that wrong, but I wanted to mention that I don't do this. Each fert gets their own small plate to eat from, and they don't all eat together. Is this something I need to do with them? I give them each seperate plates to help know how much they are eating, and I let them eat wherever they feel most comfortable (because if they aren't happy with their location they won't eat, so we baby them and let them eat wherever they want). Tak and Pogo don't really care where they eat or who they eat with, but Mischief and Bandit are different. Mischief is picky about where he will eat (though he doesn't care if others eat with him) and Bandit doesn't like eating with the others. Mischief's issue will probably be fixed by making a feeding den, but I think Bandit's issue is more emotional. Long story short, Bandit has seperated himself a bit from his current brothers, he has become a bit of a loner ever since Emmett and Gir died. He still sleeps with them and he sometimes plays with them, but mostly he just wants to go off in his special room by himself, he prefers to sleep by himself, and he likes to eat by himself (but he did eat with Pogo today but only on his favorite chair). I'm not sure how to fix this particular problem.
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Post by Sherry on Jan 8, 2013 14:28:55 GMT -5
Okay, that's fine when you leave, are they caged, or in a room? If caged try putting a dish with a few slivers on it, and if free roam, make a feeding den and put some in there instead. That way, they can snack during the day as well. And the meat is good for several hours
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2013 1:39:59 GMT -5
So after a couple of days of around 1oz slivers and 2oz soup the boys are all doing pretty good (of course with the exception of Pogo I've continued to try to give him some slivers and he just doesn't want them and eats around them). Tonight I gave them all 1.3oz slivers to 1.2oz soup. Mischief ate pretty well, actually, he nearly enhaled ALL of it in about a minute. Mischief is so odd, some feedings he acts likes he's starving and others he will barely touch his food, but then he will of course beg in between meals for some soup). Bandit didn't eat all of his dinner, which is a little strange, but he seemed happy so I'm OK with that. Tak is still grazing as of this post, but I imagine he will eat most of his dinner, and he doesn't really care if it's slivers or soup, he's open. Weights are maintaining pretty well and I'll get some new weights posted soon. However, poopies are off. They are SUPER small. So small in fact that I became concerned enough to give Bandit and Mischief a tbsp of pumpkin. But everything came out OK, which could also explain why Bandit didn't eat as much tonight (he is still pooping out all of the pumpkin he got 8 hours ago). Also, my boys are peeing NEARLY as much as they were a couple of weeks ago. It had gotten to the point that I had to wash their cage litter box nearly twice a week it smelled so bad of ammonia. Now, I can go for 2 weeks if I want. Is this normal??? Also, I wanted to ask - now that we are moving towards more slivers and less soup, and my boys aren't moving as quickly as I would like, AND they have been on soup for months, is there a risk of them not getting enough nutrition since they aren't eating all the organs and bone they have been? I have noticed that they are all more sluggish than normal - but there is the possibility that they are still somewhat in winter mode so I'm unsure of the cause.
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Post by Sherry on Jan 11, 2013 9:26:20 GMT -5
Nutritional deficiencies take a few months to show up, so no worries there. Since they were getting a balanced soup, they are fine for a while yet And the stools and voiding sound pretty normal for raw fed. Alright, move them up to all slivers with a coating of soup. Just toss a meal of slivers with the soup and see how they do. If they take that, we're going to start increasing the size of the slivers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2013 3:41:02 GMT -5
So I wanted to write in about just Pogo. I know we are kinda depending on the 'monkey-see monkey-do' thing but I honestly don't think it will work. Pogo has always been a stubborn ferret, only doing things HE wants to do. He is also very spiteful and if you try to get him to do something he doesn't want he will often do nothing or do the opposite just to spite you. He DOES NOT allow ANYONE to scruff him. He simply does not respond ferrety to ferrety things. Whats more, he simply won't eat slivers. I've tried hiding them in soup, he just eats around them. I've tried making them warm, he still refuses. I've tried handfeeding them, and get this, he actually GAGS. The little drama queen GAGS when he tastes a sliver. It is so very aggravating, but OH SO FUNNY. I've never seen an animal gag before. He also gagged and nearly dry heaved the one time I tried giving him freeze-dryed venison. He even makes the gagging sound. DRAMA QUEEN!!! Anywho, do you have any ideas about how to get him to eat slivers? As I've stated before, he will refuse to eat mulitple meals if I force the slivers (though I haven't tried more than 2 as I worry about him not eating anything for too long).
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Post by Sherry on Jan 12, 2013 10:53:50 GMT -5
Something that *might* work(Boris was MY little drama queen ;D ). How thick is the soup he eats now? If it is a puree, start with mixing in a TINY amount of mashed up ground meat.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2013 14:01:52 GMT -5
Um, I can try, but we are using rabbit at the moment that we have to butcher (but they are cleaned) so unless I use a different ground meat I'm not sure how we would go about this (I don't have a meat grinder myself). And honestly, I wouldn't want to use the grinder at my meat market - I but my meat there as it is imported and frozen and they are the only place that I've found different varieties of meat and actual organ meat, but really they are a dirty little market and I don't know how clean they keep their grinders. I will mention, when I nuke Pogo's soup and a tiny piece gets cooked, he won't eat it AT ALL. I know none of them like cooked soup, but I think with Pogo it is more the texture that he doesn't like - anything that requires any chewing he isn't a fan of. Even when he was eating kibble he always ate it strangely and pecked at it - he chewed the kibble in the side of his mouth to the point that it made a squeaking noise when he ate. And to make it all easier, the little brat would take the kibble to where the water bottle was, get some water to drip, roll the kibble in the water (or let it sit in the water for while) and then eat it. He is such a weirdo!
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Post by Sherry on Jan 13, 2013 14:50:06 GMT -5
We'll get him there! How about some ground beef or even pork? Just from your local grocer's. If we can make a start on getting him over the texture thing, he can begin progressing faster.
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