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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2012 16:21:45 GMT -5
Ok, then we are good - I buy the human grade pure powdered bonemeal!
Yeah, we've attempted this before, with the rib cage, but we shall try it again. I think my BF is butchering some more rabbit either tonight or tomorrow.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 13, 2012 19:15:49 GMT -5
Sounds good let me know if they cave!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 2:03:08 GMT -5
Results from first true day of slivers: Bandit - When eating them IN soup he will eat them on his own, AS LONG as the soup itself is warm. Heaven forbid the soup isn't warm enough for His Highness - he simply won't eat it then stare at you with the saddest BooBoo eyes ever Now, when I try to feed the slivers to him directly he wants nothing to do with them - odd. I haven't had to scruff him yet, and won't as long as he eats what I give him without creating drama. He is such a sweet, loving, patient fert (and my Dominant boy) that I hate scruffing him unless I REALLY have to. Pogo - NOT HAVING ANY OF THIS STUFF! Even though I KNOW he was starving tonight (they went about 9 hours without food while I was at work - which is a long time for them here lately - as I wanted to make them hungry tonight) he simply refused HIS ENTIRE DISH OF SOUP all because mean Momma put STUPID rabbit slivers in it (basically, I got a BIG , at which point he promplty stomped off and went back to bed). Here is the issue with Pogo - he REFUSES to be scruffed. Not even my vet can scruff him. Pogo is one of those ferrets that will fight and bite and kick and scream his way out of a scruff, and he is so small and squirmy that if he doesn't wriggle out of a hold on his own you WILL drop him at some point. He absolutely HATES HATES HATES being scruffed. And if I try to wrap him or hold him against his will in ANY way he WILL create a scene and will REFUSE to do what you want him to out of spite. SOOOO, Pogo is going to be a problem. Next go round (hopefully tomorrow - I have hectic schedules on the weekend) I will try adding only a few very small slivers to his soup, which I will also try to make as smooth as I can, to see if he will eat them. He doesn't like the smell of the whole rabbit so I will have to cover them well with the soup. Mischief - I don't think he particularly likes or dislikes the slivers. He simply gulped his dinner down, slivers and all. I use to think that Mischief was an 'air-eater', like some of Heather's ferts, but watching him more closely I realize he uses his mouth more like a scoop when he eats. It reminds me of those candy machines with the scoops on arms that you had swing around and open and close to get the candy. He just opens his mouth up, scoops the food into it, and swallows. It's kinda weird actually how he eats. I've never seen another fert eat this way. That being said, I don't think he is one to chew too much, so chunks may be a bit harder. Tak - Another that hates the slivers, and I'm having a hard time scruffing him as well. But in his favor, he hasn't been with us long and didn't come from the greatest home so scruffing/holding him may be a scary/bad for him. He is very sensitive to touch and still doesn't trust us not to drop him (he splays his feet a lot when picking him up and putting him down, then turns around to look at and sometimes bite our hands when we do so). However, Tak is a grazer and will eat if he is hungry, so even though he puts some of the slivers aside I don't think he will be too hard to switch (fingers crossed). We didn't try the rib cage today, but I have a few in the freezer for the next day that I'm not completely frazzled and running late to work. Sorry, but I work most of my hours over the weekend and some things are just tough to get done (especially for a worry-wart ferrent like myself). I'll let you know how it goes though when we try one. OH YEAH, before I forget - while making this last round of soup batches I decided to re-up the organ meat in their soup to 2oz liver and 1oz heart to help get more nutrients into them seeing as how long they have been on soup. I hope it doesn't upset their tummies, but it isn't much so hopefully not.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 15, 2012 11:48:29 GMT -5
Okay, some good progress and some not so good. Typical for a ferret ;D Now, things are going to get a bit complicated What I want you to do is feed slivers the way you did to those who will accept them(even reluctantly), just the way you did. Those who won't touch them get fed later. That way they have an opportunity to eat, otherwise they get to watch the others get the good stuff. This is where(hopefully) monkey see/monkey do will come into play. Every third day, increase the slivers and decrease the soup while at the same time making the soup just a wee bit less warm.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 2:11:04 GMT -5
Okie dokie, since you posted I have been working nearly non-stop, and have been lucky to get my boys to eat before I have to get to work. Needless to say we haven't been very good with the slivers. Also, as a side note, my BF doesn't really help in the food department so when he has been left with the task he hasn't done the slivers. What's worse, I just got off work tonight and will be going back in in 8 hours to work another 14 hours, so of course my boys won't get their slivers tomorrow as their Dad will be taking care of them all day. What's EVEN worse, I am going away Wednesday for 5 days to see my family for the first time in a year so I won't be home to make sure they are getting their slivers and ribs. I am actually off Tuesday before I leave so I will do some slivers then like you said to do, but beyond that I can't guarantee anything. I am going to TRY to get my BF to do the slivers while I'm gone, but I won't hold my breath. That all being said (and sorry for the rant), I will do what I can when I can, but until I get back it appears that the slivers will be on hold. I hope this isn't TOO horrible, even though I do feel horrible for not working harder with my boys in the first place. I was SO hoping to be fully switched by now. I am sorry for putting everything on hold, but I will keep you updated best as I can until I get back. I will have limited access to a comp while I'm gone (my family is anti-technology) but I'll try to check in here and there. And I'll let you know how everything goes Tuesday before I leave. Just wanted to give you a heads up.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 17, 2012 10:27:53 GMT -5
No need to apologize! I know where you are coming from Right now, I'm at a similar point with integrating Frodo and Lucrezia. Should be working harder at it, but am just too busy at the moment. Just do what you can, and we'll work at it when you have a moment to breathe
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 2:54:49 GMT -5
Alrighty, so we are back in the swing of things (sort of). First, I hope you had a nice Christmas Ours was great here - we all did nothing!!! OK, so I have been trying to get the boys use to their soup not being so warm, but they are fighting me on it and refusing to eat it when it isn't warm enough. On days where either my BF or I are home this isn't a problem and we just wait until their next feeding to make sure they eat, but on days where we are both at work I hate leaving them without having eaten as we can work up to 14 hour shifts. Also, Pogo is REALLy being a brat and not only refusing his soup if it isn't warm enough, but he is also refusing it if it isn't liquidy enough. It was all we could do to get 4 ounces in him today (and he had been eating up to 7oz a day). Now for the slivers - I cut them up smaller this time and they didn't seem to bother my boys as they ate them readily, but they didn't eat much tonight so they might not have gotten many. I am having to hide the slivers under the soup to get them to eat them though. I am also cutting the slivers fairly small (about as long a a fingernail and about 1/3 the width), and I am cutting the slivers off of the 'filet' part of the rabbit so the meat is super soft and easy to eat. Honestly, I don't feel like they are getting any more texture out of the slivers than they are from the small chunks of meat and organ my crappy blender leaves behind in their soup - and my boys tend to stash these morsels and only eat them about half of the time. I gotta say though, I think I am done babying my boys. I want them on full raw NOW. I am finally OK with making them hungry if it needs to be done. I do worry about doing this to Bandit considering his health and his largeness (thus NEED for more food ), but as long as I get to feed him twice a day I think he will be OK as long as he eats enough each sitting. I also convinced my BF to finally help me with the slivers so the boys should be getting them most every meal now. I still haven't tried the rabbit rib cages I froze a couple of weeks ago, but my next day off I'm going to jump on those as well (I worry about having someone hurting themselves on a bone and my not being able to get them to a vet on my work days - and believe me, my Waardy Mischief always manages to get himself into trouble somehow). I am surprised this winter - my boys aren't eating nearly as much as I thought they would, especially being their first winter on raw. They have all had their moments, but in general, they are eating about 2-3oz of actual meat a day. This just doesn't seem like enough for young male ferts in their first raw winter to me. Bandit and Pogo have boofed up for winter, but Mischief and Tak still haven't. Those two also don't gain weight easily.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 28, 2012 10:38:36 GMT -5
What brats they can be ;D And yes, letting them work up an appetite is a good thing in most cases. You may wind up hand feeding to cooler soup if you aren't already, just to get them used to it. For the slivers, try putting half a meal of them topped with a bit of soup, sort of like gravy on fries. If they are hungry, there's a better chance of eating it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2012 4:16:16 GMT -5
Aighty - So this morning the boys apparently refused the slivers and pushed them around the plates (but my BF did this round of soup as I am sick and he says the slivers were quite a bit bigger than the ones I showed him tonight). Tonight, Bandit ate his 3.5oz of soup PLUS slivers AND he ate another .25oz of Pogo's soup which included all of the slivers in that dish. SO, that means Pogo didn't eat a single one of his slivers, the brat, and he left them hiding in the chunkier soup at the bottom of the dish. Mischief and Tak ate most of their slivers with no problem. Tomorrow I will try doing lots of slivers and see how that goes and let ya know. Also, my BF is going to help me weigh the boys this weekend so we can get a base weight of "before the slivers" to make sure they aren't dropping weight. As soon as I can get him to help me I will post these weights (plus the most recent vet weights, and their summer weights if I have the somewhere). We will be making a new batch of soup Sun or Mon, should I keep up the soup as it is and just up the slivers, or should I chunk up the soup a bit more as well?
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Post by Sherry on Dec 29, 2012 10:30:31 GMT -5
Excellent! That sounds really good Both with how(most) of them are eating, and on getting the weights
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 15:44:00 GMT -5
So we thought we had more rabbit to sliver, but we were wrong. We have been giving slivers each meal, but we didn't have enough to do a large amount of slivers. My BF is butchering more rabbits today so we will get some more tenders to sliver, so I will tell you the results on this in the next couple of days.
Questions - 1) Should we chunk up the soup more or leave it the same since we will be adding more slivers? 2) My boys are eating much less and giving us a hard time eating. This started last week before we started the slivers, so this isn't a result of the slivers, though I'm sure they aren't helping with this now. That being said, what could be the problem here? Bandit is the only one who hit a hump eating a ton on the raw, the others have maintained about 7ish ounces for a while but now will only eat about 4oz, and even getting this much in them is a task. Even Bandit now is giving us a hard time. But when we get them eating they will eat and I can tell they were hungry. Bandit and Pogo have poofed up for winter, but Mischief and Tak have not. Pogo is also going into a type of hibernation mode where all he wants to do is sleep, though this isn't really abnormal for him as he tends to do this in the winter - but this winter he doesn't even want to come out to eat. This all being said, trying to chunk up the soup and add slivers is making everything that much more difficult. Don't get me wrong - I am NOT stopping our progression, but simply stating how hard this is all becoming. I have no problem hand feeding, but some WILL NOT have it. Pogo is my worst here - he responds to holding and hand feeding, and scruffing by majorly fighing us and refusing EVERYTHING. He is one of those ferts that REFUSES to be scruffed/held and do what you want him to do. Even my vet has a really hard time with him. What do you recommend to get Pogo to eat? Oh yeah, and Pogo is the one that will absolutely refuse his soup if it isn't warm enough or if it isn't liquidy enough. He will refuse for multiple feedings just to spite.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 30, 2012 19:21:57 GMT -5
Okay. For now keep Pogo where he's at. We can work on him in a bit. He'll just have to wait for his Appetites normally decrease part way through winter, so not overly concerned about that right now. They are still putting enough away. If you want to try chunking up the soup for them while doing the slivers that's fine I gather they are eating this split between two meals?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 4:51:45 GMT -5
We usually do 3 meals a day - one when we wake up, one before we go to work in the afternoon and one when we get back from work late at night. One reason we do it this way is that our boys were use to getting morning kibble soup, and they still expect their breakfast, but since my BF and I often work until 1 or 2am I hate to feed them around 9am only to have them wait nearly 18 hours for their next meal. We had gone down to 2 meals a day for a while but Mischief would beg throughout the day for his soupie, and Tak is a grazer (he eats only a small amount at a time, so his soup gets left out until he eats it all). Also, insulinoma was (and maybe still is) a possibility with Bandit so I wasn't comfortable making him go too long without food. But if it would help get them switched I am OK with going back down to 2 meals a day. My BF butchered more rabbit today so I will try the largely sliver meals tomorrow and see how they go. As for today - Pogo is still pushing all the chunky stuff aside, Mischief will eat mostly anything you put in front of him as long as he is hungry enough, Bandit will most eat all this soupie and slivers, and Tak will slowly graze on slivers with no problem. It appears that Tak may be our easiest switch, but that may also be because he has only been on soup about a month now and isn't spoiled But of course, if the sliver is too large none of them will eat it (they usually just try to stash it).
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Post by Sherry on Dec 31, 2012 10:31:12 GMT -5
But of course, if the sliver is too large none of them will eat it (they usually just try to stash it). Quickest and easiest way I've found to get them past this point is to think "meat spaghetti" ;D Long, very thin strips. Almost like a sliver, but much longer. That way, they get the feel of "small" in their mouth, but also wind up starting to chew since they want to get their sliver It tricks them into learning to chew ;D Goal for now- get them(all but Pogo) eating all slivers. You will likely have to top with some soup as a lure for a while, but keep decreasing the amount as well as thinning it out. Our Athena had been on raw for 3 yrs, and I still had to at least wet down some meats under the tap for her to eat them ;D If they were "sticky" she'd totally ignore it That also might be an idea when you try the sliver meal- wet the meat and drain it before topping with the soup. That way, the slivers will come away easier.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2013 0:32:56 GMT -5
Tonight's update: Everyone except Pogo actually ate slivers from my hand tonight They have never done this before. They have licked at them and taken them and stashed them, but never actually ate them. Also, they ate their slivers and soup pretty well tonight and without pushing. I only gave each of them about 1/4-1/2oz of slivers in their dishes, but it looked like it made up nearly half of their meal, and then I covered them with 1-1.5oz of soup (depending on the fert). None of them finished this but they all gave it a good effort. But Pogo, ah Pogo, just doesn't want any chunks or slivers of any kind the little weenie. He still continues to refuse any meal that isn't liquidy and warm enough. BAH!
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