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Post by acodlin on Mar 3, 2011 22:53:45 GMT -5
I'm trying to come up with a new idea on how to stop my resident biter from making daily blood withdraws from whatever flesh she finds available. She's almost a year old and was given up to a shelter in august of last year due to her biting. I suspect that she is deaf, she doesnt bite out of fear or aggression. Usually she just walks up, takes a sniff and chomps down hard enough to draw blood. Annoyingly enough she seems to like the taste of mom's flesh over dads. Infact she's known to give him kisses on his face, but me? she ran up my shirt the other day and bit my lip, split it wide open! 9 times out of 10 when she gets me I don't even see it comming, she's VERY sneaky. When I got her I first ignored the biting and tried hard not to give any kind of response. That did no good, I tried redirecting her attention to a toy, she didn't fall for that game. I did scruff and drag her, I realize now that this isnt a good method but I didn't know that at the time.. and really it did no good either, she'd pop back up and lunge at me. I tried spraying her in the face with mist from a water bottle.. she enjoyed that, what a fun game mom! ugh ... I've tried caging her when she bites, you know how everyone says they forget after 5 minutes why they are in there? No she has a memory like an elephant. If dad lets her out its okay, if I let her out she lunges and bites me and then I get the "look" the - that'll teach you who's boss look.I tried bitter apple spray, however she's not picky about where she bites and I really dont want to take a bath in it daily. I've used a bite hold before and she starts this facial twitching thing like something out of a cartoon, then she does some kind of exorcist move to attempt to bite me, if she doesnt bite me she ends up scratching the crap out of me instead. This crazy girl seems to straight up hate me and i've done nothing to her! I give her ferretone, n-bone treats, I spoon feed her and baby her if she's tired enough to let me. I do love her dearly, but she's like a little leech that needs her daily fix of my blood, If anyone has any new idea's for me.. i'm open to suggestion lol I'll never get rid of her and if she bites me everyday for the rest of her life then so be it, but I'd really rather not have that. She nailed my neck pretty good a couple of weeks ago and I hate trying to explain that I really didnt have a giant hickey and that it was a ferret bite, and THEN explaining that they arent vicious.. This is my little flesh eater and her name is Church!
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Post by Sherry on Mar 3, 2011 23:00:11 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity- when you were doing the time outs, you said she'd immediately lunge and bite again? Did you then immediately put her back into the carrier for biting again? I had to do that with Lucrezia, sometimes 5 or 6 times in a row. Once in a while, even more often
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Post by acodlin on Mar 3, 2011 23:09:47 GMT -5
I did but she never seemed to give up. Maybe I needed to be the one to keep putting her back no matter how long it took. She'd quit whenever Tim (boyfriend) would let her out. Usually after 6 or 7 times he'd be the one to go in next and deal with her.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 3, 2011 23:14:03 GMT -5
And so she won. Daddy came in and rescued her. They are excellent little manipulators ;D . If you do try to go this route again, you'll likely wind up putting her back in immediately several times(for what may seem most of her out of cage time), for several days in a row. But sooner or later, she'll learn biting you is simply NOT allowed Good luck! Heather or one of the others might have some better advice for you, hopefully!
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Post by Heather on Mar 4, 2011 0:55:49 GMT -5
I don't know if I have any really beneficial advice or not I'm thinking that like Squiggly, she is deaf but there is a hardness to the eye .... I can't explain it. Fun-Go Squiggly has it. Your little girl appears to have it too. It's a look that they give you and you know that it's part of their mental makeup. Fun-Go was and is my difficult child. I love him dearly but .... he has been a hard core pain in the a**...well fingers, toes, arms, legs... What I did with Fun-Go is to use time outs but what I did first was use total ignore methods (ferrets really hate to be ignored). This was probably the most difficult part of the whole exercise to participate in. There was more than once I found myself doing a bit of a "hop dance" while doing dishes or cringing and waiting to feel teeth in my leg when I turned and walked away from him. I learned a method of scoop and slide, using both hands and feet. Never once was he tossed or shoved hard but I would slide him away from me and then walk away from him as he was trying to re orientate himself and locate me again (I have porcelain floors throughout the house, a ferret can really go the distance on this ;D) At first he would try and come right back and bite me. Other members of the household had to be on board with this too. Everyone had to practice this "keep away" procedure. If he became really aggressive he went into the "sin bin". The one thing that wasn't done, was Fun-Go wasn't touched, snuggled, scruffed except to be put to bed or into the "sin bin" (and he was never, ever scruffed to get to the "sin bin" though there were times I really wanted to ). I can't remember exactly how long he was ignored. He was allowed to run and play and investigate but with minimal human interaction. It was a couple of weeks, he wandered about, played with the other fuzzes in his group, investigated the house. The humans ignored him (or as much as you can a curious creature that investigates you with his teeth). I remember when "he" decided that he didn't want to live this way. I was washing the dishes, and trying hard to ignore Fun-Go as he was bouncing around the kitchen. I just about jumped out of my skin when I felt whiskers on the top of my foot. Then he put his front paws on my leg. I picked him up, gave him a quick kiss and put him down. That's when we started the next part of Fun-Go rehabilitation. I talked to him (obviously more to deal with my nervousness than have him hear me). I do believe that the deafies are more intune to our body language and talking relaxes, not him but me thus having me give the impression of relaxed authority ;D The other rule in the house....whoever put Fun-Go in the "sin bin" took him out. If someone else put him in the "bin" you couldn't take him out. He had to be removed by the person who put him there. If he went right at me upon coming out of "time out", I would walk away from him. If he made contact, he found himself back in the "sin bin" but the attack without a bite was ignored (a miss would also be treated as a no bite). Fun-Go had always used his attacks to get his own way, to instill fear, why? because I think he was very afraid himself and it's his nature. Even now, that look will creep into his eyes and I know he's going to bite me. It is usually when I've overstepped "his" boundaries. I've learned that he doesn't like people to reach over his head. The person holding him can pet him and snuggle him. No one who isn't holding him can pet him. He likes to have his bum supported and doesn't like the "harness hold". He hates to be startled and the person that does this gets bitten. Fun-Go loves to be snuggled, held, kissed but only on his terms...try and change the rules and you get bitten. Fun-Go has never learned bite inhibition. He still bites as hard as he did when he came here that was over 2 yrs ago. He has learned to live within our boundaries, but we have also learned to live with him. Fun-Go is the worst of my biting furkids. I know little of his past, other than he had been through 3 or 4 homes by the time he came to live with me. I know the last 2 homes were overwhelmed by his biting and surrendered him. If he had actually been surrendered to a humane society he would have been put down. Like you, I made a decision. I love my little Fun-Go and in his way he loves back but he will never show love the way that I want him to ciao
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2011 1:15:09 GMT -5
You know, Heather- I hadn't noticed the eyes until you mentioned it. But you are right. I don't think Willow had time to get that hard look, simply because she was still a baby when we got her(5 months). She is also deaf, and was a bad enough biter at that time that I really didn't want to handle her! I can't imagine what she'd have been like by the time she was a year old, if she'd even made it that long with someone else who wasn't willing to deal with her. And yes, Willow still bites today, but it is no longer the "out for blood" type of bite. In fact, she very seldom even breaks the skin any more
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 1:19:46 GMT -5
Heather, sounds like she is getting her way by biting- soooo- here is another approach that works for us when there has been a blood drawing BAD biter. Takes repetitive action but has worked over the years well and they are better for it. Keep a popsicle stick handy as your index finger may not be a good choice at this time . Hold her & allow yourself to be a position to be bit - then once she attempts- grab her with one hand & hold her jaw open with the other while placing the popsicle stick to the ROOF of her Mouth for a few seconds. Then calm her & DO NOT LET HER GO- hold her & love on her. - let her attempt to bite again & repeat this . over time she will learn there is a consequence to biting. It doesn't harm them - but it does Surprise them. Thus far holding & assuring you are in control & still loving on her. talk to her while you are doing it- NO while she is being corrected and good girl once she starts to get it. I put my wrist in front of the mouth after a few tries - if no bite attempt -I say good girl & give ferretone from a small bottle. You should see a bit of submission each time - BUT DO NOT let her go until you are thru with the lesson - try a few times each lesson. Never press hard on the roof or stick down the throat. Against the roof is safe & controlable. End each lesson with some ferretone. Keep me posted please.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2011 1:22:44 GMT -5
That's an unusual method, Rose. I don't think I've ever heard of that particular one before! How did you find out about doing that?
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Post by Heather on Mar 4, 2011 1:29:50 GMT -5
I will be honest with you. If I tried that popsicle trick with Fun-Go he would decimate me. Fun-Go was probably 2 yrs old when he came to me. He's a hard core abuse case if his reactions are anything to go by. He's not a big ferret, according to his weigh in he's just a bit over 3.5 lbs (a Path Valley farm ferret) but he's strong and I would not want to pry his mouth for anything. Oh, I can and have done so (off my hand , I know all about forcing ones hand into their mouth) Holding him when he's bitten is like hanging on to a wild animal. He has an exocist type neck head thing going No....I don't force any issue with Fun-Go. Forcing lovin's on Fun-Go is a good way to be bitten. He's a soft touch, I wouldn't use domination on this boy. Just me ;D ciao
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2011 2:14:03 GMT -5
You know what I find really interesting? I had some advice a while back from a very experienced ferret breeder in the UK. She told me when a ferret bites, to gently push your finger crosswise to the back of their mouth, and they will spit you out. The idea is that prey will try to pull away, so by pushing in to the back, they are surprised by it, and react by letting go. For the majority I have tried this with- it works like a charm! However. There have been fuzzes who simply look at me with my finger in their mouths, who then "set" their teeth JUST so, and slowly start to saw at my finger. Jaws working back and forth until I'm bleeding like a stuck pig, and they just keep on a workin', til I finally pry them off ;D THOSE are the ones to watch out for, stubborn little sods that they are ;D
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Post by Heather on Mar 4, 2011 3:29:08 GMT -5
Sound advice Sherry. It's something you learn early on when dealing with dogs. If you look closely at any carnivores' teeth, you will see that they curve slightly to the rear. As it was explained to you, prey will try to escape, if you move the offending digit to the rear of the mouth you will either gag your little finger eating carnivore, or cause them to re-adjust their grip. Pulling away only causes them to further "lock on" to you. You have to move reasonably fast to prevent being "chewed" The other thing to remember is that the bottom jaw is the "hinge", so if you push down they won't be able to shut their jaw on your hand. There is also a pressure point right behind the jaw hinge that will cause them to release or unhinge the jaw (we have one of those too ) It doesn't hurt them, it just part of the nervous system that open and closes the jaw. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2011 11:03:21 GMT -5
You know what I find really interesting? I had some advice a while back from a very experienced ferret breeder in the UK. She told me when a ferret bites, to gently push your finger crosswise to the back of their mouth, and they will spit you out. The idea is that prey will try to pull away, so by pushing in to the back, they are surprised by it, and react by letting go. For the majority I have tried this with- it works like a charm! However. There have been fuzzes who simply look at me with my finger in their mouths, who then "set" their teeth JUST so, and slowly start to saw at my finger. Jaws working back and forth until I'm bleeding like a stuck pig, and they just keep on a workin', til I finally pry them off ;D THOSE are the ones to watch out for, stubborn little sods that they are ;D ERGO Popsicle stick-instead of finger. Fun go - may need a double thick one-:-)
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2011 11:04:59 GMT -5
Ok, got it
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Post by acodlin on Mar 4, 2011 18:39:42 GMT -5
Not quite sure how easy it would be for me to try and put something in her mouth. That makes me a little nervous too! I'll make sure from now on that whoever puts her in time out is the one to get her out. Anything is worth a shot. I too cringe whenever she comes and sniffs around me while I'm doing dishes or just sitting on the couch. It's like something out of jaws.. you know its there, and its comming, you just arent sure when. She got me good this morning on the top of my foot I swear she dips those fangs in acid because it hurts forever!
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Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2011 21:30:54 GMT -5
I also made sure to wear full covering when Willow was little ;D Socks, shoes(runners with laces done ALL the way up, long pants(usually jeans), etc ;D
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