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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 0:38:00 GMT -5
So as some of you know, I have this intact hob Finn, and I also have an altered male, Fenton, and an altered female, Fiona.
Finn is in rut now, and he has started to get too aggressive with Fenton and Fiona, and I have had to separate them.
By aggressive, I mean he pins them and mounts them constantly.
He especially gives Fiona a lot of attention, probably because she smells like a female, right? Even though she's altered... If I had an intact female, he would REALLY be going crazy for her, right?
So, assuming the mounting and aggression is stronger the more hormones the other ferret has (because Finn is smelling their hormones or pheromones or something), isn't it possible that getting my 2 altered ferrets implanted with deslorelin might make Finn be nicer to them?
My thinking is that since des totally shuts off hormone production, if I got Fenton and Fiona implanted, they would smell sexually like nothing, neither male nor female, and Finn would get along better with them, whereas right now, even though they are altered, their adrenal glands are producing some small amounts of hormones that make them still smell a little bit sexual.
Does this make sense, or doesn't it work that way? Does anyone else have an intact hob who lives with some altered des-implanted fuzzies? (not intact fuzzies implanted with des for chemical altering mind you... my question is about altered fuzzes with des as an adrenal preventative).
Your thoughts??
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Post by Heather on Mar 1, 2012 2:24:44 GMT -5
It's worth an experiment. Remember, fuzzies and DES is a new territory, there's very little solid information. That being said....my sofa pillows were not hormonal at the time that Odin had his way with them , so....it just might be that they're something that he's going to give his lovin's too even if they don't smell like ferrets . ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 2:31:42 GMT -5
I would save my money and just implant the one in rut.
Sent from my SCH-M828C using ProBoards
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 2:35:48 GMT -5
I would save my money and just implant the one in rut. Sent from my SCH-M828C using ProBoards Well my 2 Marshall fuzzies will need to be implanted at some point, I'll have to do them when they get adrenal, or I can done as a preventative.
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Post by joan on Mar 1, 2012 8:22:18 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree with Heather, as I really doubt that implanting Fenton and Fiona will change Finn's behavior toward them. An adolescent hob in full rut could care less what they smell like, as his hormones dictate his behavior.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 8:29:21 GMT -5
We still have a lot of unknowns, and the Des./lupron seems to work differently on different ferrets.
One thing to keep in mind is that ALL neutered ferrets are "adrenal" in that the abnormal hormone activity commences with neutering.
I need to update my adrenal thread (started writing something regarding my experiences, what I have seen/heard, some studies, unconfirmed risks, the nature and objectives of the studies, unknowns, etc. I hope I can "group my poop"well enough to get this together soon.
In the meantime, please be sure to read the threads regarding "Fascinating study"/diabetic ferrets.
Anytime, you mess with hormones, risks are involved. And at some point in time, being intact begins to represent risk.
-jennifer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 8:32:50 GMT -5
Also, I'm not sue I agree with your assumptions in your original post. I gotta run, but will get back to this....If I do not post by at least the weekend, please PM me if you want my input --- my brain farts can take over at times. -jennifer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 8:37:25 GMT -5
Maybe I've missed a trick here... but why don't you just have Finn altered? Then he'll be less agressive, (and also less smelly). I'm assuming he's old enough now, as he's in rut?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 10:12:12 GMT -5
Maybe I've missed a trick here... but why don't you just have Finn altered? Then he'll be less agressive, (and also less smelly). I'm assuming he's old enough now, as he's in rut? I want to let him go through his first rut, which is supposed to be the best for their long-term health.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 1, 2012 10:51:17 GMT -5
why don't you just have Finn altered? The majority of our North American ferrets have horrible genes, especially in the area of adrenal disease. From the time they are altered, the adrenal glands start to become overstimulated, ultimately leading to adrenal disease. The longer a ferret can be left intact, the later this disease will hit them, and the older they are, the more likely it is to be slower growing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 11:02:28 GMT -5
why don't you just have Finn altered? The majority of our North American ferrets have horrible genes, especially in the area of adrenal disease. From the time they are altered, the adrenal glands start to become overstimulated, ultimately leading to adrenal disease. The longer a ferret can be left intact, the later this disease will hit them, and the older they are, the more likely it is to be slower growing. Thank you Sherry, I should have explained that. In fact I don't ever plan on having Finn surgically altered, only getting him the des implant.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 11:16:05 GMT -5
I would have thought Finn would have a very very slim chance of becomming adrenal as he is a breeder ferret and wasn't neutered early. Ferrets in the UK are usually neutered/spayed at 6 months old and adrenal is extremely rare. It makes me sad that in the US it's almost considered inevitable that every ferret will get this at age 3 or 4 it's such a horrible disease.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 12:00:22 GMT -5
Yeah even if Finn was surgically altered I would think his chances of developing adrenal would be smaller, given that he's almost a year old now, and he comes from European bloodlines that probably have less genetic predisposition to becoming adrenal (if indeed there is a genetic link).
HOWEVER, adrenal is not the only reason I'd prefer to go with des over surgery. Nancy Park, the breeder I got Finn from, has used des to chemically alter a lot of her boys instead of surgery, and her experience so far has been that the results were superior in almost every way - Less odor, a more pleasant smell, better coat, less muscle loss.
The only area Nancy expressed some concern about was aggression. She said that she has had some hobs (very few though) who, even after getting the des implant, were still a little bit too aggressive to co-exist with other implanted or altered hobs. They smelled good and coat was good, they just retained a little of their hob behavior. Those hobs were then surgically altered, and the problem went away.
This really surprised me, because my understanding was that des shuts down testosterone completely. How could these hobs who were on des still be aggressive, and then not aggresive after being surgically castrated? Seems like a mystery to me, I wonder if any of the studies out there have data that could explain it?
And before anyone asks, no, their implants weren't too old / wearing off.
She said most of the hobs she used des on acted like altered boys though. This was a rare problem.
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Post by Heather on Mar 1, 2012 12:19:51 GMT -5
As mentioned previously...there's a lot we don't understand about the DES but there may have been part of the personality of the hob vs just being intact or not. Chemical castration according to the short study sent the hormone levels to zero. They're even lower than the altered fuzzes who always spike hormones during the spring. Now this study only used 20 ferrets (I'm almost positive that's the number) That is a very small population when you're doing these type of studies so there are probably a number of variables that were not covered. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 13:16:57 GMT -5
You also get some unaltered hobbs that aren't aggressive. My first ferret Eddie was never neutered and he was so friendly. He also lived with a spayed Jill (I was 13 and knew no better) and I don't remember him ever scruffing her, mounting her or being aggressive with her in any way. He did however like to have his way with with stuffed toys behind the sofa
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