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Post by melcab on Jul 22, 2011 10:03:48 GMT -5
I've been giving them 1/4 of the bird per meal. It seems about right for them. Their poops aren't much different though. They are a mustardy yellow, slimy and seedy. Although today I'm not sure if it's one or both so I'm going to have to figure that out. I think it is both though. How likely would it be for them to both have a sensitivity to chicken? They are from the same litter. Would CGH effect them the same way as chicken, being so close? I am this close to posting a picture or two lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2011 10:09:13 GMT -5
Chicken is the most common allergy to meat, but it is strange that you'd have two. As for the cgh, my Pixie has IBD (her flare ups are pretty traumatic for everyone :\ ) and is sensitive to chicken, but she can eat cgh no problem. I generally find that a lot of the trouble will come from the fat on the chicken, and the leaner areas can still cause trouble, but are alright on occasion.
Is there anything else they're getting during the day (treats, etc)? If not, the best thing to do is cut that out of the diet, try other proteins and see if the problem resolves itself (you can also give them some probiotics and see if it's an intestinal thing).
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Post by melcab on Jul 26, 2011 11:20:51 GMT -5
Well since we're working on different proteins right now I have been laying off the chicken wings a little. So lately they've had CGH and now last night I gave them rabbit. It was almost whole, the way a chicken is whole when you get it from the grocery store. No head, no feet and hollow. (I was worried about having to gut it...REALLY not my thing. LOL) Anyway, I guess I should have taken note of how big the whole rabbit was, but judging by the size of their usual meals the rabbit ended up being chopped into 5-6 meals. I gave my cat the whole spine thinking it was too hard for the ferrets to eat. Any experience with rabbit spines? Do your ferrets eat them? My cat at the entire thing and he's missing a couple of teeth so now I'm thinking maybe the ferrets might have been able to handle it. Maybe next time. They did appear to eat the rib area, but left most of the leg. This is consistent with how they've been eating even chicken wings. So today I gave them the other side of ribs with leg but cut it up a little more so they would hopefully eat more of the meat. It could be that I'm just giving them too much at a time. I'll get better at that I'm sure. But the point is they ate it! They seem to think that any raw meat I put in their bowl = food (so far anyway). That means we officially have 4 proteins they'll eat plus chicken hearts and chicken livers. Does your pixie eat chicken organs still if not chicken meat? Or do you stay away from any chicken products? I need to get kidney and gizzards to try too. I was hoping chicken wings could be my staple food as they are cheap and really easy to feed, but it does look like after not having much chicken wing lately their poops look like they are firming up and normalizing a bit. So maybe it's the chicken...then again maybe it's the fact that I've also been giving more squash. Sigh. I'll figure it out eventually. I did see a tiny bit of vomit (I think) in their cage this am after the rabbit last night. Not sure what happened there. Overzealous eating? It was a very tiny amount and they are acting normal. I did find that there was a small hole in their new, stuffed mouse toy so I removed that. Playing fine. Still don't drink from their bottle. Hard to tell with their dish whether they were snorkeling or drinking it. Ron loves to snorkel. The only treats "they" (only Ginny eats it, haven't found a treat for Ron yet) is freeze dried chicken dog treats. (yes chicken again. it was that or beef liver for this brand) Ingredient: chicken breast and made in the USA. Brand is Pure Bites. Ginny loves it. I even used it to teach her to spin clockwise! All in all they are doing great!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2011 16:17:40 GMT -5
The rabbit spine, I think, would work fine. Hiko's the only fert that will eat rabbit, so I get rabbit rmbs chunked already (and I can't tell what's what). Judging by my own personal bun, Cinder, I'd say a ferret could handle that size and density of bone, no problem. Vomit can be normal - if they ate too quick, usually. If there's no other signs and it's not chronic (and doesn't look bloody), there's nothing to be worried about, really. Pixie loves gizzards, and she even occasionally gets them (1x a month at *most*). Everyone always has a bit of loose stool after that meal, because they are pretty rich even for unaffected ferts. Bottles can be hard to teach to ferts. I nixed them my first year of ferrenthood, and have lived with the snorkeling (now the water dish has its own cage, even! I don't have water dishes in the FNs, I just add cool water in with the meat "juice" from the meal, because they love to drink *that*). Generally, they'll snorkel when they want to play, and provided you keep the bowl filled, they'll drink when they want to do that. I do notice that adding rescue remedy (which I'm currently having to use on them, LOL) deters them from snorkeling for some reason As for the treat, I don't see where they'd cause loose poos (unless it's a sensitivity, of course :\ ). Hopefully those poos will continue to improve and quit giving you grief ;D Four proteins? That's great - generally, the rule of thumb is that those 3-4 are equally represented through the week, though, as we don't want one source loaded as the majority of the meals. I'm glad to hear they're really progressing (and getting so eager now!) That's awesome
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Post by melcab on Jul 26, 2011 19:04:14 GMT -5
They've been drinking out of a water bottle their whole lives and were drinking a lot out of the bottle when they were kibble fed, naturally. So they know how to do it, and were doing it often before raw. Now I almost never see them drink at all. I have a bowl and a bottle now, mostly because when it was really hot this past week I wanted to give them more water to get wet in. But that seems to be all they do with it is snorkel. I never see them drink. Oh well, I guess there's nothing to worry about unless/until they become dehydrated.
As for the treat, it can't be causing it because only Ginny eats them and not even every day. Guess I'll just keep an eye on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2011 19:31:43 GMT -5
Oh, sorry :C I've had an extremely tiring day at work, and had just gotten home when I wrote my reply. Cutting back on water intake is natural on a raw diet. The food contains a lot of the water they need, so it's no surprise that you're seeing that decrease.
I was also agreeing with you on the treat. My " :\ " face was a kind of " but we both know it's not that" stand in, which - in retrospect - was not my best way of explaining!
So, yes. Those are my face/palm moments for the day! ;D
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Post by melcab on Jul 29, 2011 9:55:39 GMT -5
You're entitled. I guess these poops must be normal for them. It only changes in color slightly depending on what meat they eat. It's always a little chunky, looks like undigested bone. It's a little less slimy these days, but that might be normalization finally from adjusting to raw? They ate chicken wing last night again because they finally polished off the rabbit and the chicken wings are what I had left. The weekend will be devoted to heart and organs (at least that's the plan) maybe with some eggshell powder mixed in to combat the organ runs? I haven't notice this in them yet, but then again they've only eaten liver twice. Could I be giving them too much bone? Basically this week they've eaten a whole rabbit (minus organs). They only ate the small bones from it and left the biggest leg bones stripped. But every night was bone-in so far. So assuming they get heart and organs this weekend it's basically like eating a whole prey diet right? I'm feeling a bit paranoid about the ratios. Especially when it's not a whole rabbit on the menu. Then I really have to frankenprey it. Next week it'll be CGH again plus a couple of wings, because CGH doesn't last as long as the rabbit did, and then organs and hearts. But then I'd like to do pork again, which they obviously won't eat the bones so I'm gonna have to figure out how many pork and how many and what RMB's to give. Okay I'm rambling. Nevermind I'll figure it out and if I don't, I'll ask you again then...unless you have any specific advice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2011 11:05:14 GMT -5
Generally, when you feed too much bone the ferts are constipated, and the poos are basically FILLED with bone chunks or chalky in color. And basically - yes, over the week you have closely mimicked the ratios of a whole prey diet, which only needs organs to be balanced (you can also feed the squash with the organs, to combat the loose poos - that won't constipate them, plus it takes the regular place of non-digestibles). You're doing good! As for the pork - I know some ferrets eat pork riblets. My guys get small pork bones and pork trim - they have fun with the bones, but don't eat basically any of it. Basically, maybe if you want to stretch the cgh - feed a bit heavier pork meat meal (with eggshell powder), and then feed a smaller cgh meal. It'll give them a change, make the cgh last a bit, and they'll still get the calcium they need.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2011 11:06:40 GMT -5
Also, you CAN give your guys bene-bac, and see if that helps their poos. I give 1/2 of a 1g tube to each ferret, wait three days and give them another 1/2 tube. That, generally, helps take care of things.
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Post by melcab on Aug 1, 2011 9:51:56 GMT -5
Well my guys are eating 3 proteins, livers and hearts and bones (oh my!) so now I'm wondering what the next step is? I'm giving them squash every/every other day in their meal for hairball/poop regulation. I'll keep the benebac in mind for future reference.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 9:55:16 GMT -5
Do you have another organ, kidney/pancreas/etc?
(\o/ almost there!)
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Post by melcab on Aug 1, 2011 10:05:05 GMT -5
Not yet. Guess that will be my next experiment lol. Need to make a trip to the meat store before the CGH runs out anyway, which will probably be tomorrow. I think they are already eating less than they were. Could this be possible already? It seems like the meals I am leaving out last 1.5 meals now and their previous timing is off. Used to be breakfast and dinner times. Now it seems to be lunch and before bed because their before bed meal is lasting into breakfast (likewise their lunch is lasting into dinner) Honestly this new schedule is better for me anyway. I just wanted to make sure that it was normal so soon after starting raw.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 13:06:42 GMT -5
It really depends on the ferret, rather than having a set time line for when they start regulating better. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that even with the switch relatively new, it is switching to the warmer months, and they do generally slow down.
Like always, though, as long as their behavior is the same, it's nothing to worry about.
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Post by melcab on Aug 2, 2011 7:21:48 GMT -5
Yeah the past couple of days have been hot. I leave icepacks in their cage wrapped in wet towels. They like to cuddle up to them lol. Last night I decided to cut their usual portion in half to see if they finish it all. This morning there was less left, but it still was not completely gone. The leg bone (CGH) was still there with some meat on it. Maybe it's a combination of the heat and the natural slowing. Either way if there's food left then they are getting enough, right? Especially if they are otherwise acting normal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 10:42:25 GMT -5
Yes, if they're acting otherwise like their regular selves and there's food left (my guys have been leaving a lot behind, too, lately) then they are getting enough. In your case, it probably is most definitely the heat that really slowing them down.
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