Melcab's Switching Thread/Sunnyberra

[Heather]

Name:
HF Forum Username:
melcab

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? here I found out about this site from Ferret Harmony, which I found by google I believe.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I think I would like to concentrate on frankenprey. I don't think I could handle whole prey, emotionally. lol
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? Because I believe it is the healthiest option. My dog is on not a raw, but a homemade diet right now and I'm thinking of switching my cat too but my friend had said that cat nutrition was complicated and kinda scared me a bit.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Yes, with your support. I can't say I'm not nervous about the whole process, but it is something I want to do.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? I have 2 ferrets, Ron (male) and Ginny (female) who are believed to be around 7 months old. They seem to be of a good weight, but from what I'm reading I'm guessing they will fatten up a bit once on raw.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Right now I'm feeding Evo and what's left of the Marshall's. I know the latter is not good, which is why I'm switching. I tried Stella and Chewy's freeze dried chicken dinner, but they don't seem to like it (dry at least)

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? except for the Stella and Chewy's I have not tried to switch

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? 24/7

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).


Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Sunnyberra) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[Deleted]

Hi, I'm Annie (known on here as sunny or sunnyberra ), and I'll be helping you switch your guys to a raw/natural diet. I'm a new mentor, so we're going to have more experienced mentors dropping in and checking on us from time to time, as well.

I'm 24, and a graduate student in school psychology/clinical psychology here in the wonderful state of Virginia. I've been a proud ferrent for a little over 5 years, now, and have been feeding raw to my fuzzies for three of those years.

I currently have four ferrets: Pixie, who's a bit over 5 years, now; and then the other three are all two: Yogi, Sian, and Hiko. I first decided to switch after doing a bit of independent research after Pixie and her brother, Yew, turned two. That was the age I was dreading as a new ferrent - it seemed so scary, as I read more and more about the illnesses that seemed to start cropping up around that age. I decided then to do everything I could to lessen my guys' risk. One of those things was getting them off of kibble and onto a more natural diet.

There are quite a few methods used for switching. For my guys, I decided to disallow kibble. Instead, I offered kibble coated boneless chicken chunks and I would supplement feed meals of baby food every few hours after the initial fasting period (Yew also got soup, made from pureed chicken meat, baby food and olive oil, because he liked it, whereas Pixie didn't).

After a bit of hair pulling, they were both switched completely by the end of a week, and they never looked back. Sadly, Yew's since passed away, and I eventually introduced Yogi (first) and Sian (second) as kits, and both were eating meat chunks the same night I got them. Hiko is my newest, a two year old rescue who had been used to eating sugary treats (gummi bears) and sugary kibble. I treated him the same as the others - gave him kibble-dusted meat chunks, and he started eating them that first night. By his second evening with me, he was completely on raw. By the end of the week, he was eating bone-in. Now, he's a proud raw-eating pro, who occasionally enjoys a frozen/thawed quail or two.

So, it's possible. It might seem tedious or nerve-wracking, but we'll get your guys there, with a method that works for you *and* for them! Since your guys are young, why don't we first try picking up their food for a few hours, then putting down a plate of diced (and I mean small, LOL!) chicken breast chunks coated with a a layer of crushed kibble ( and possibly oil or 'tone, depending on your guys and your own preference, but I'd wait on adding this until they are exposed to just the kibble coated version. If they don't seem thrilled, we can use the oil/tone as another "incentive").

Leave it for a few hours, and then you can pick it up and put down kibble afterwards. I like doing this because it helps gauge interest (and the unused meat can be rinsed clean, refrigerated and used in the first batch of soup, if we go that route, so it won't go to waste and it will still be good!).

When you present the meat, you can direct your guys to the bowl (yay positive attitude), and - if they just don't seem to "get" it - you can get a bit on your finger or spoon and hold it to their faces once in a while, but don't make a big production and don't do it for long periods of time or every five minutes. We're not trying to get them to eat it (but if they do, great) we just want them to get the smell of it in the back of their minds, so it might pique curiosity, as well as slowly getting a new routine introduced.

[melcab]

Hi, Annie,
Great to "meet" you! I'm excited to start, but I didn't see your post until today for some reason. This evening is grocery shopping night so I'll get some chicken breast. Between my first post and now I did try rehydrating one of the S&C chicken patties. Ginny lapped some of it up, but I'm not sure if she just drank the juices or if she ate any of the meat. It was not completely gone when I dumped the bowl after a day. Ron didn't touch it, but it was hot this week so he didn't do much of anything. It's cooled down today so maybe we'll have more luck at dinner time. I would like them to take some freeze dried dry hopefully in case they ever needed to go to the vets or be ferret sat, but I could probably do that on my own.

I tried giving them olive oil this week and neither of them even took a lick off my finger. Maybe fish oil could work. But I'll try it with kibble dust breading first lol as you suggest. Can't wait to give it a try.

How much chicken breast should I be giving? Should I just give them just a bit of it to taste/smell and then later give the kibble back? What if they take to it, how much should I give them so I know how much to buy?

[melcab]

Ok, so I put some small chunks (1/4-1/2" maybe) of chicken rolled in Evo dust in their dish. When I noticed they were active and about to snack on their kibble, I took the kibble out and switched with the chicken. They licked it a bit, nibbled a bit. A couple of the pieces were removed from the bowl but it looks like they were left behind once all the "breading" had been eaten. Typical kids, right? My 4yo does the same thing with chicken fingers lol. I don't think either of them ate an entire chunk each, but they definitely nibbled on them as I watched. I will leave the meat until bedtime unless I see them eating it again and it looks like they might finish it over night. On kibble I usually fill their bowl again before I head up to bed just in case they get hungry at night, but I've noticed that they are active when I wake up in the morning and then again in the evening. So I'm guessing those are the times I should be feeding them especially once they are no longer eating kibble.

[Deleted]

That's a great start - that immediate interest will go a long way with them (especially already mouthing it. That's awesome)! I'd just make sure to have that few hour time span where they don't have *anything* before putting down the chunks. That way you know they're hungry. And it's great that you're already scoping out meal times - it's usual to feed twice, once in the morning and once in the evening.

[melcab]

Iput kibble in last night before bed but I left the chicken too because Ron was nibbling on it again. I cleaned out their bowl this morning. There were several pieces out of the bowl. After collecting them all it looks like all or most are still there but they appear to be a little smaller. I know they each nibbled on it a little because I watched at first after putting the bowl in. So should I do that at each meal until they are eating all the meat? When do I put the kibble back if they're not eating enough to sustain themselves yet?

[melcab]

On a whim I decided to give them some egg yolk because I had eggs for breakfast and I don't eat the yolk. True to form, Ron would barely lick it off his nose, but Ginny lapped up enough from the bowl that her poops were effected. It looked almost like the yolks went right through her. Not quite as bright yellow though but close lol. I put more chicken with kibble but they haven't eaten much of it. Maybe I should try soup?

[Deleted]

Any method will take time. You could dice fingernail thin pieces (even small chunks will be daunting to newbies) and hand feed a few, to make sure they're getting that reinforcement of "yes this is food," as well. With my guys, I didn't allow kibble, a just supplemented meals of baby food, but if you want the kibble, I'd leave the meat for 4-5 hours, then allow them kibble for about 30 minutes, and then pick back up for another round of meat. At bedtime, you could put in the kibble again (until morning).

However, that method's not or everyone, so if you feel comfortable with the idea of soup, go for it, definitely. Soak kibble into a mush, add in pureed chicken breast, and other goodies that might entice your babies (baby food, 'tone or oil). Remember to pick up the kibble a few hours prior to putting down the soup, though. Give them a day of just adjusting to the smells and texture on their own. On the second day or so, you can begin doing handfeeding sessions to encourage them to taste, and we can go from there

[melcab]

I don't even know if they will eat the baby food lol. I'm just afraid of starving them since I don't really have a handle on when they like to eat yet. And morning feeding of raw is tough right now as I am trying to get my kids off to school at the time when they are most active. Although next week that point will be moot until September. I tried olive oil before and neither would lick it. It wasn't extra virgin tho, does that matter? Maybe I could try fish oil. I need to go on another shopping trip. My 9yo son is NOT going to be happy lol.

[melcab]

I tried the baby food. Beech Nut Stage One chicken and chicken broth. Ginny ate a kitchen teaspoon of it right off the bat. Ron needed a little more convincing, but I'd say he ate about 3/4 of a kitchen teaspoon (not a measuring spoon) of it. This might be the transition food we need to get them eating soup. If they eat enough of the baby food to constitute a meal maybe I can get off the kibble entirely before they are totally switched to raw. Does this sound like a bad idea? Good idea? I really hate every mouthful of kibble they have to eat. But of course I don't want them to be worse off than they are eating kibble (Evo for ferrets, btw)

[melcab]

So here's what I've done. Last night I put some chicken baby food (half a 2.5 oz jar) and watered it down, then added kibble to it. Left it in over night. It wasn't touched all night, so that it had dried up and then this morning Ron ate some of it. (he's an absolute kibble head. sigh.) Ginny didn't touch it, but she ate most of the first half of the jar of chicken baby food earlier with no kibble off a spoon, where Ron only had a taste. So with the kibble Ron got a large taste of the baby food. Then mid morning after their romp I put half a jar of the baby food with water and I added some raw chicken (two kitchen teaspoons) that I had pureed in my processor yesterday. It was completely hidden in the soup. When I got back from taking my sons to the playground the bowl was completely empty. Since I wasn't home, I don't know who ate it, but I suspect it was mostly Ginny. She's been fairly easy with the stuff I've tried. She ate egg yolk the other day with no prompting whatsoever! So it looks like Ron is going to be tougher. And I'm still working with their schedules because I don't want them to be starving and on kibble they eat whenever they feel like it lol. I need to get more baby food now as that is apparently the way to go for at least one and probably both of them since Ron did at least taste the stuff, even if he didn't eat as much as Ginny.

BTW How long will pureed chicken keep in my fridge?

[Deleted]

Baby food's been successfully used as a temporary diet (usually sickies), so if you want to go that route you can. Healthy ferts can fast safely for 24 hours, so if someone's being sketchy about eating (a spoonful here or what not) it's not a terrible thing, as long as their attitudes remain the same (nothing denoting sickness, etc). Generally, ferts not on a regulated diet (kibble or raw) need about 15-20 cc's of food 2x times (varies for each ferret) a day to remain healthy. This'll become more of an issue if your guys get stubborn about switching to the soup - which sounds like it might not be THAT big of an issue, if someone's already eating it ;D Just keep an eye on weight, and if anyone's losing drastically (some is expected though!) something has to change.

If Ron's being hesitant, it's key that he's around the new food - watching Ginny, smelling it on her and near him, because he'll become familiar with it, and that's important in getting his mind on track with what we want him to do.

You're doing great! That's a lot of progress

[Deleted]

Out, it'll last about 3-4 hours. In the fridge, you're probably looking at close to 24 hours, depending. The more meat is transformed or processed the quicker it goes bad. If it starts smelling or looking iffy - just chuck it out!

[melcab]

So tonight I have chicken baby food half a 2.5oz jar plus 2 kitchen teaspoons of raw pureed chicken meat and a kool aid scoop of kibble (to try to entice Ron) with water added to make it a soupy consistency. So we'll see how that goes.

I hope Ron eats some of this. It has much less kibble than last night.

Ginny just woke up and is eating as we speak.

[melcab]

Success! Shortly after Ginny finished last night Ron ate. This morning the bowl was actually empty EXCEPT for the kibble (don't worry, Ron promptly finished it lol) It looks like they like to eat 3x a day but maybe that will change once it's all raw and includes organs and bones?

The plan is to reduce the kibble gradually (but not TOO gradually) so they are eating just the watered down chicken baby food with raw pureed chicken added. Then I don't know if I should gradually eliminate the baby food first or if I should gradually add in organs before eliminating the baby food... And of course I need to get them eating bone too. Okay let's not get ahead of ourselves!

Out of curiosity, why is baby food used for sick ferrets? Is there something in it they need or benefit from that can't be gotten from a completely raw soup? Something in it that they seem to like better than raw? Just wondering.