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Post by melcab on Jul 6, 2011 9:33:23 GMT -5
Rubba dub dub. Thanks for the grub. Yaaaaaaaay PORK! *\O/* I put some small bits of pork in the bottom of the bowl topped with a chopped chicken wing for last night's dinner. (boneless pork chop. hubby was almost scandalized lol, but hey, it was on sale when I bought it!) The whole thing was completely gone when I got up this am. I did put a little turkey baby food in it to entice. I hope Ginny isn't eating all of it since she appears to be my early adopter of all food items, but I doubt all of it would be gone in that short amount of time if Ron wasn't helping out. This am it's just pork chunks with a smear of turkey baby food. Ginny has already been eating it, but Ron licked it a little then went to sleep. Maybe he'll have lunch later. Hopefully I'll be able to get to that butcher shop this afternoon since there are (THANK GODS!) no extra curriculars today. I want to stock up on organs and hearts since they appear to be hard to come by at the regular grocery store. I don't think I'm going to get any new meats yet until we are comfortable with pork. I don't want the meat to be frozen for too long...didn't I see something about taurine and some other stuff degrading in the freezer? Know anything about that? I'm so glad it's going so well with the diet! These guys are such good "first ferrets". Not too hyper, not too chewy/nippy, not too finicky. Hopefully they will remain healthy for a loooooooong time. *knock on wood*
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2011 16:20:00 GMT -5
All nutrients degrade over time, regardless of storage. Also, the more processed a meat/organ is, the less nutrients it retains, and that goes for freezing/thawing/refreezing. The highest levels of taurine are going to be in dark, whole, fresh meats (and of course hearts).
I don't recall the exact length of time for storage of these items (my instinct says about 6 mo.s or so, though I could be wrong, but it's the length of time I allow and what I stock for). Not that there's no nutrients left, but they are substantially lower after that time (I am currently "cleaning" out my freezer, now, too, so that I can restock fresh foods).
That's great that your babes are chugging along with this new diet. And I agree, hopefully this change will help them remain happy and healthy and with you for a very long time!
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Post by melcab on Jul 10, 2011 13:12:26 GMT -5
Just wanted to update: Well they have no problems with chicken wings or pork chunks EXCEPT how to keep the cat from stealing it! He sticks his sticky little paws through the bars of the cage and claws the meat right out!! I've covered the corner of the cage with plastic from a soda bottle and moved their dish into that corner so the cat (hopefully) can't claw it out UNLESS the ferts take the food and/or the dish elsewhere in the cage while they're eating it. They don't do it often, but sometimes it happens. Maybe they'll learn quickly that the cat can't get their food if it's in the protected corner. Right now I'm alternating between a wing and a bowl of pork chunks since those are the things I know they'll eat. I know I need to find a third protein and I need to get going on organs, but I'm still having trouble getting out to that darn butcher. Actually I'm procrastinating because I REALLY don't wanna drag all 3 of my kids to the butchers as it's harder to concentrate/shop when I have them PLUS the last couple of weekends when I could go without kids have been busy and I don't see it letting up soon. Ugh. Okay that's not what this thread is about so rant over. Sorry. One thing I did want to mention is that their poops, although much less in quantity, are kinda strange. Not smooth in consistency and it seems like they are not digesting everything. Kinda looks like there might be tiny pieces of undigested meat in it even. Plus they are slimy/stringy. Is this still adjustment poop? Their activity level, as I mentioned, is going up and their coats are fluffier and silkier rather than wiry. Behavior seems to be fine. Noticed a little hacking a couple days ago so gave them some squash baby food mixed with turkey baby food as a treat. Haven't heard any hacking in the past day or so. Don't wanna overdo the squash either. Any thoughts? I am not above posting poop pictures. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 20:37:10 GMT -5
I'd think it would be just the transition. I wouldn't think it'd be a sensitivity, because (I assume) everyone is having these poos. How often/what amount are you giving squash?
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Post by melcab on Jul 10, 2011 21:36:41 GMT -5
I haven't been giving the squash at regular intervals because I couldn't get them to eat it before I got the (duh to me) brilliant idea to mix it with the turkey. It's squash babyfood, not pieces of squash. But I didn't want to give it every day because I was afraid it would give them the runs that way, no? That's a good point about it not being a sensitivity. Yes it does appear they are both having them, but I'm not totally positive. I'll have to pay more close attention to be absolutely sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2011 13:33:16 GMT -5
I know with pumpkin, it never gives loose stool, because it's fiber, and it bulks up poo, not the opposite. Granted, I've never used squash or squash baby food for the purpose, either, but as long as it's just "squash" on the jar (?) you should be okay (if there's other stuff, I'd think about just getting squash chunks (they have them in the produce section washed and pre-cut) and mashing it up OR getting canned pure pumpkin instead.
I'd give it more regularly. Ferts are obligate carnivores, yes, but they still tend to need a bit of fiber in their diet to keep things .... regular. Pumpkin/squash also has the added benefit of being great for helping with hair passing through, which also sounds like this could be, as well. A teaspoon per fert per meal is a good dose (you can tell you gave too much if their poo resembles the squash/pumpkin color).
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Post by melcab on Jul 11, 2011 13:44:37 GMT -5
Oh great! I thought it would give them the runs if I gave too much. I'll start giving it to them regularly then. I bought the squash baby food (squash only, no other ingredients) because there appears to be a shortage of canned pumpkin in my area. There used to be loads of cans of it in the baking section, but now there's nothing. Must have had a bad crop this year again.
I posed the question about the poop to the general membership as well and got the hair thing too. To me it just doesn't seem like it's hair, but hey, I'm not the experienced one here. So we'll try the squash more regularly and see if that helps as well as them just adjusting to the new diet. Hopefully that's all it is.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2011 18:27:06 GMT -5
And it might not be hair! It could just be the switch or some other temporary GI upset. Either way, the squash should work that out
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Post by melcab on Jul 17, 2011 12:34:19 GMT -5
Thought I would give an update, although not THAT much has changed. I went to that butcher I've been talking about and hit the motherload. They have everything I could possibly need there and it's CHEAP! Anyways, I bought a pound of chicken hearts and a pound of chicken livers, a frozen rabbit and a couple of CGH. They've been eating the hearts no problem. Yesterday I left them with a wing and some liver. They at the liver up no problem. They finished the pork I had so that's a second muscle meat they'll eat. I need to get them eating a third...CGH or rabbit hopefully. I'm a little leary about thawing and opening the shrink wrapped rabbit. I really don't want to have to gut it. Not sure if it's completely whole or not being shrink wrapped and frozen.
I did notice that for the past couple of days they haven't finished an entire chicken wing + drummette. Could they be tired of chicken wings and want something else? Behavior is fine. Poops kinda the same still, but maybe a teeny bit better. I need to get more squash/pumpkin.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2011 14:06:03 GMT -5
It's very possible that they're just a bit worn out with the chicken, the bone (they're lazy eaters), or that they're just slowing down a bit. Best thing to do is set aside the chicken for a week or so and see if they show any more enthusiasm for the other meats (which is why a staple 3 meat sources is minimum, but it's always a great idea to have at least another 2 sources that you KNOW you can rotate in whenever you need to).
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Post by melcab on Jul 18, 2011 22:00:55 GMT -5
Well they are chowing down on their chicken wing as I type this. Whether they finish or not we'll have to see. I've taken out a CGH to thaw but that takes a while so maybe that will be dinner tomorrow. I know that's not so much different from a chicken wing though. Other than that I guess I just need to know how often to feed hearts and organs. Also, right now they are getting chicken wing for both meals because I ran out of boneless meat of any kind. Is that ok? I like to figure it out in meals rather than percentages, like so many heart meals per week, so many bone in meals per week, so many organ meals per week. How would that go?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2011 6:02:56 GMT -5
Don't worry - I do by meals, as well. The general menu looks something like: 8/9 bone-in, 2 heart meals; 1 organ meal (can feed with a bone in meal to ward off any loose poo. Organ meals, no matter what they are, should never be any bigger than a chicken liver is/ferret), and 3/2 muscle meat meals a week. If you want, draw up a specific menu that includes your 3 staple protein sources and post it, here, so I can get a supervising mentor to take a gander at it
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Post by melcab on Jul 19, 2011 9:29:06 GMT -5
I suppose I'll have to wait until they are actually eating three proteins...or is the menu theoretical, just to see if I can make one? I assumed it was supposed to be a menu made up of foods that my ferrets actually eat.
Do you mean one whole chicken liver per ferret? That seems like a lot of food to me for one meal, especially if I give it with a bone-in meal. Last time I fed liver it was one whole chicken liver for the both of them to share, plus a chicken wing. They actually polished off the liver and had some of the wing left still, so the liver might go first before the wing. It was over night so I didn't watch them eat it. Didn't I see something that said the organ meal should be half liver and half another organ?
Two heart meals, that's a lot of hearts, eh? Like a bowl full of em? I don't have a problem with that now that I found that shop that sells all that stuff by the pound.
Well looks like we got some work to do, but I'm sure it'll go pretty smoothly considering how well they've done so far. CGH is still thawing so that will probably be either tonight or tomorrow morning. I tend to do easier meals in the morning because of all the stuff I have to do during that time. Looks like it should be between 1/4 and 1/2 the bird per meal with the CGH, yes? We'll see how it goes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2011 20:11:33 GMT -5
Generally, it is meats they're already eating, or ones you KNOW are going to be staples for variety. It's usually 1 per fert as a max amount (but I will double check, just to be on the safe side. I feed bone in ground that contains organs + f/t whole prey along with rmbs and muscle meats, so my guys don't get separate organ meal days ), especially if you don't feed whole prey or whole carcass ground in, etc; and the organ meal (at a time) doesn't have to be half liver and half other organ - one week can be liver, another week another organ. For hearts, generally females eat 2-3 oz a day, and males eat 3-4, so one meal of hearts for your guys would be about 2.5-3 oz worth, if that gives you a better idea?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2011 20:18:02 GMT -5
I don't know how big your birds are, but I get two meals out of one 1lb cgh for my four guys (it's generally a lighter meal for my boys. Ideally, everyone gets about 2 oz/fert)
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