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Post by Heather on Aug 7, 2011 21:54:22 GMT -5
Name: HF Forum Username:
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Looking through this forum as a guest for weeks.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. Essentially I want to switch Bruce to raw and perhaps look at whole prey idea a bit later. But for starters just fully to raw.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? The health benefits it can bring to him both short and long term, plus i don't exactly trust any kibbles, and lastly even if i wanted to keep him on a kibble, there is a poor decent range in Australia.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I understand and am willing.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? One at the moment, though am looking to get a baby girl in the next few months. Bruce is about 10-11 months, a male obviously, currently undergoing treatment for mange mites and footrot because of this but he is about half way to full health again. He is probably a steady weight for his size I think. I have had Bruce for 6 months.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I have started in the last week to feed chicken soups with water. He now is eating chicken soups with chicken chunks and eating it all. Prior to this he was on kibble and free fed.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? No.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Every day.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Carpetshark) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 22:17:53 GMT -5
Hey Deaves! (I believe your real name is Luke ) Welcome to our fantabulous mentoring program You are officially my first mentee EVER but don't let that scare you, I've been very well trained and have a fantastic team of experienced mentors who will be creeping this thread daily to make sure I'm not messing anything up too bad ;D Anyways my name is Steph and here's a little bit about me: Name: Steph HF User Name: CarpetSharks37 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
About Me: I’m a fourth year University student currently majoring in Sociology while I figure out what I want to do with my life. I am owned by eight wonderful critters: Kima and Lola – 2 large breed dogs rescued from provincial native reserves, an itty bitty Yorkie Poo named Maggie, 2 kitty cats – Marbles and Magic, a Hedgehog named Oakley and of course the two ferrets – Sophie & Olivia.
I became a mentor because... My two greatest passions in life are helping people and helping animals and as a mentor on here, I get to do both. I also love writing and teaching, which I also get to do as a mentor. Dealing with my own digestive conditions has also taught me that a natural diet and simple diet is the best medicine for humans, just as a natural and simple diet for ferrets is the best way to prevent health issues for them down the road. My other animals currently aren’t on raw diets, mostly because they all have severe urinary issues, require prescription food and all the vets I’ve spoken to say it’s too risky at this point to make the switch – but hopefully one day I’ll be able to move them, or if not, my future other pets onto a more natural diet too.
About My Ferrets: Double trouble. That’s Olivia and Sophie all right. I got these two monsters back in April of this year and they are both four-month old females (possibly sisters). Sophie is a chocolate with a mask and Olivia is a champagne (at least that’s what colour they were the last time I asked – they are changing colours like crazy!). Sophie is the sweetheart – she gives me kisses and cuddles and is such a sweet-natured angel…well minus her foot fetish - ouch does she bite toes hard! Olivia on the other hand is my evil ferret. I say that in THE most endearing way, I love her evil little ways . She makes these “nom nom” noises like she’s going to bite you and does the oh so famous “lick lick chomp” and sometimes she’ll just come out of nowhere and bite your arm flab – like I don’t feel insecure enough about my arm flab . She has her sweet moments though and they are both crazy babies who I adore. Unfortunately Olivia has had these mysterious coughing fits since I got her and x-rays have revealed fluid build-up / a possible tumour in her lungs/heart we still haven’t reached a definitive diagnosis but things aren’t looking to great. I am hoping to get a third ferret soon so that Sophie can start to bond with another ferret – she’s incredibly bonded to Olivia – but in the mean time I am just enjoying every evil little moment I get with Olivia and hoping for the best. Love these crazy critters.
About My Natural Feeding Experience: Olivia and Sophie are my first ferrets and I started the raw switching process basically right after I got them. I originally switched them onto freeze-dried raw (Wysong Archetypal 1) then went straight to ground and chopped meats, followed by edible bones and bigger chunks of Frankenprey. They never really had a raw soup stage, but they recently decided to stop eating their organs so I had to re-switch them onto organs using the raw soup stage and can now say I’m pretty experienced with the entire transition process. They currently eat Frankenprey mostly (chunks of meats, edible bones, chopped up organs and hearts) but I do still feed raw soupies (mostly in ice cube form) and freeze-dried raw when I’m in a bind.
Type of mentor: Frankenprey, Commercial Raw, Raw Soupies, Freeze-dried Raw.
Specialty: Ferrets who are stubborn about eating their organs and decide to un-switch after they’ve switched For my complete bio and for bios of the other wonderful mentors who will be helping me help you (with pictures and all ;D ) you can go here: holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=switch&action=display&thread=176Since this will be a learning experience for the both of us - do not hesitate to ask ANY question (no matter how silly it seems - there is no such thing as a stupid question!) at any time and if something's not totally clear, ask again and I'll clarify! Raw feeding is definitely a bit of a learning curve, but we'll have your Bruce eating the good stuff in no time! I am honoured to have you as my first mentee and I look forward to working with you and your cutie-pie Bruce!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 22:23:42 GMT -5
Before we get started I just wanted to get some more information on what Bruce is eating currently. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I have started in the last week to feed chicken soups with water. He now is eating chicken soups with chicken chunks and eating it all. Prior to this he was on kibble and free fed.I'm assuming this is RAW chicken soup? Is it just the raw chicken and the water in the soup or are you adding anything else? How big of chunks of chicken are in the soup currently that he will eat? Any other supplements? How many days has he been on the raw soup for? Is he eating just the raw soup (no kibble what so ever?) - if so how much soup would you say he's getting per day (how many times are you feeding him and what quantity?) How are his poops looking since you've started the raw soup? Just to give you an idea of our game plan here: since he's already on the soup (which is an AWESOME start by the way - good job! ), what I'll have you do is basically just increase the size of the chicken chunks SLOWLY, and decrease the amount of water until we have him eating solid chunks. In the mean time, depending on how his poops are looking, we can add a few more things to the soup to help balance things out. But I don't want to overwhelm you right off the bat, so I will wait patiently for your responses to my questions and we'll go from there
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Post by deaves on Aug 7, 2011 22:29:06 GMT -5
Fantastic Awesome to have you as my mentor Steph and I don't hold the slightest bit of concern So basically Bruce has been eating soupies twice daily for about a week, and for the past 2 days he has been eating chicken chunks in the soup. Though I'm not entirely sure he likes them, more a case of him being hungry! But none the less they are being eaten On average per meal he was getting 4 ice cubes of thick soup and chunks, though he was finishing quite quickly so I gave him almost double that this morning because he seemed to be starving! I'm going to the shop in a couple hours and will report back with what I've found, I'm aiming for some organ and heart mostly and some chicken wings perhaps. I have some chicken drumsticks in the freezer though so he'll probably have more of the same tonight. Where do you think we should go from here? More chunks then soup till he is eating just chunks? Perhaps throw in some heart or organs? Different meat? I'm gald I have a mentor now I'm starting to think further ahead haha. Sorry for the length of this post just trying to position where we are at
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Post by deaves on Aug 7, 2011 22:40:05 GMT -5
Oh didn't see your second post! Well I answered most of it anyways luckily Though his poops are runny and black, so I have some eggshells drying outside and will add that tonight/tomorrw crushed up obviously. How much do you suggest? No other suppliments, just raw chicken and water, and now raw chicken chunks Chunks differ but the biggest would likely be the size of 1 and a half perhaps 2 finger nails put together...lame example i know! For about a day I haven't added any kibble in, as he is eating 4 ice cubes of the soup and some chunks twice daily, though i get the impression he is hungry so i gave him nearly double that for breakfest and he ate some and I'm assuming will pick at it through the day, especially after our play Is it safe and fine for him just to be on the raw chicken soup and raw chunks for a while with nothing else? Or do you think I should buy something else at the shop today? Otherwise I might just buy a little more chicken while we work on just feeding chicken.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 22:42:11 GMT -5
Don't worry about the length of the post at all, I tend to write pretty long ones myself ;D Definitely let me know what you find at the store! Availibility definitely will play a big part in what your final menu ends up being. Start with your basic grocery stores, but if you have pet speciality health food stores they are great too (a bit more expensive for some things) and Asian markets are definitely the best for finding organs and strange meets (My ferrets LOVE chicken feet - you get over the EWW factor pretty quick ). I actually just read your post about Bruce having dark loose stools, so you'll definitely want to be adding some egg shell (or if you can find ground up bone meal, that works too) into the soups to help with the stools. I'm a recipe person - so here's a recipe for a good balanced basic raw soup: 8oz boneless chicken(any part) a couple hearts one liver 1/2 tsp powdered eggshell puree with enough water to make a soup I also highly recommend pumpkin. You can find canned PLAIN pumpkin (not pumpkin pie filling) in the baking aisles of your local grocery store. I actually put the pumpkin straight in the soup, but you can also coat the soup ice cubes with it. The pumpkin basically does the job that the fur/feathers would in the wild - it coats the food and helps it grow through easier and firms up the stool. As far as feeding amounts going, you definitely want to feed Bruce as much as he will eat right now. When they first start the raw food, their body goes through an adjustment period (usually a few months - 6 months) where they will eat you out of a house and home! Their body is basically making up for the missed nutrients from the kibbles. Ferrets are also self-regulating on raw diets, they will tell you how much food they need to eat. So if he is eating it all / seems hungry, up the amount you are feeding until there is just a little bit of food remaining after each meal. Also you can definitely try him out on a raw chicken wing - it gives them something to chew on and cleans their teeth and gums. What I do is I cut the chicken wings into pieces and cut the bone a bit so that the marrow is exposed (bone marrow is very yummy) - you can also smash it a bit with a hammer. I also cut the meat so that it is still on the bone, but hanging off a bit. He may have trouble with the skin at first, so you can cut a bit of it off to expose the meat. If he doesn't take to it right away - feel free to add a bit of oil on it to entice him. I use extra virgin olive oil mainly - though some ferrets don't like it - and then I add pure salmon oil in 1-2 times per week. Hope that wasn't too much information! ;D Let me know how the shopping goes and we'll go from there!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 22:48:51 GMT -5
And yes it is safe for him to just be on the raw soup for as long as it takes. Most ferrets go months without a "balanced" diet during the raw switch (these are the older stubborn kibble ferrets that have been on it for most of their lives). It takes a very long time for them to become deprived from an unbalanced diet, and we'll have Bruce switched before that happens so no worries I also forget to add you don't want to use too much oil. Some people use it only a few times a week (more during shedding season - Pumpkin and oil are natural hairball preventatives) but I use it every day or every second day because one of my girls has coughing fits from a health issue. 1/2 tsp per ferret daily is the maximum you should do with the oil so as not to upset the poops. And just so you know, we are on completely different time zones It's currently almost 10:00PM here and I'm guessing it's day-time there as you are about to go shopping. So if it doesn't seem like I'm awake and replying the same hours you are that's why
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Post by deaves on Aug 8, 2011 5:58:46 GMT -5
Yeah i think I worked out I'm roughly 16 hours ahead, but we'll manage! Bruce ate all his thick raw chicken and water soup and later all his chunks, that means for his AM food today he ate 7 ice cubes of thick soup and a fair cop of diced raw chicken. Found a decent amount today, got some kidneys and chicken, mixed that into a very thick soup and added diced raw chicken for tonight dinner, see what he thinks of the kidney! Have 2kg of chicken hearts coming in Wednesday for $9.90 I thought that was a decent price. At my local supermarket I noticed there is lamb hearts, kidneys and liver. Do ferrets generally find it harder to change to lamb organs rather than others? As i think i've read before at times its tough to get them onto lamb as a meat. The chicken shop i'm getting the hearts from have just about everything chicken, such as the feet, wings, necks, livers and inners. Anywho, see how he goes with his thick soup and chicken chunks tonight, though he might be abit full from his big AM food! Didn't seem too interested when I put it down, but we'll see! Thinking I'll use the rest of this soup up then perhaps try just some diced raw chicken? Also I will be adding that 1/2tsp of crushed egg shell starting tomorrows AM food. Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 12:38:50 GMT -5
Sounds like you had a pretty successful first shopping trip! Definitely give the kidneys a try in the soup. If you can get some liver, that's a good thing to add too. Ultimately you're going to want to be feeding organs for one meal per week if you feed twice a day. Of that meal, 2 oz. Should be liver and 2 oz. Should be other organs (definitely kidney and then whatever else you can find - spleen,pancreas, pork brains, etc.) Right now we just want to focus getting him a taste for organs, hearts, and meat. Once we have him eating solid chicken, we'll definitely be adding in more proteins (at least 3). I find that during the switch it's best to try as many foods on them as possible. Bruce is still fairly young so if we get him eating a variety now, it'll be easier rather than adding in new foods further down the road. The more variety you have in the organs the better too! I only feed turkey and pork organs because my girls still won't touch the beef organs (beef has a stronger smell/taste) and because we have recently had reports here that they are finding one of the growth drugs they use in their chickens is actually converting to dangerous arsenic in the chickens livers. So I only feed organic chicken here. I'll post you a link to that thread, I don't think it applies to Australia though. Lamb is an awesome meat in general because it's very gentle on their tummies. It is also a finicky meat though, you're right, and some ferrets will love it one day and hate it another depending on the batch and cut of the lamb. Lamb organs would be fantastic to try, though! Organs do take some work for sure. You're best bet is to sneak a tiny amount into the soup each day for now, and then once Bruce is eating solid chunks you can try feeding them cut up and disguised with a "gravy" of the raw soup on top. Feel free to try any new raw foods straight up though. There's a scruff and stuff method where you scruff the ferret, and rub the meat on their gums/mouth so they can taste it and realize it's actually food. It's entirely possible Bruce will take willingly to new foods, but if he doesnt then we can do it the sneaky way Keep me updated on how the chunks and soup is going with him. And like I said earlier keep feeding him as much as he'll eat so that there is always some leftover when you go to change the food. Especially with the foot Rot he's dealing with, I want to make sure he's getting enough food! It's also a good idea to weigh him a few times a week to make sure he's eating enough.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 12:51:13 GMT -5
Also if you wouldn't mind adding the egg shell today and 1 tsp of pumpkin to his food that you are feeding today and then letting me know how his poops look after that, that would be great Is Bruce currently taking any medication for his foot rot? What are the medications that he is on? I just want to find out whether or not he does have a chicken sensitivity right off the bat. The egg shell and pumpkin should firm up the stools and ideally the stools should be brown in color and not slimey or tarry looking. The heart and liver/kidney will cause them to be dark though so if you wouldn't mind holding off on those for a day or two until we can see if there's an improvement with the eggshell and pumpkin, that would be great too!
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Post by deaves on Aug 8, 2011 20:14:08 GMT -5
Well barely touched the new soup with kidney in it. So today for AM food just trying some chicken chunks alone to see what he can manage. IF he eats it GREAT, I'll try the gravy idea with the kindey then. If not I'll have to go back to just a chicken soup with a tiny amount of kidney so he actually piles something into his stomache. Egg shell will be added this morning as well as pumpkin. I'll let you know
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 23:22:21 GMT -5
Don't worry too much, organ has a very strong taste and he'll just take some getting used to it. How much kidney did you add? Go back to the plain soups and once he's good on those again, re-add just a teeny tiny bit of kidney. Talking to the other mentors were pretty sure it's the medication that Bruce is taking that could be causing his dark stools, rather than a chicken sensitivity. Pumpkin and egg shell should help with that. Do know what the medication he's on is called? Just wanna make sure it's not something that can cause ulcers (but it's most likely the medication itself is causing not the dark stool, not an ulcer so no need to worry too much).
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Post by deaves on Aug 9, 2011 1:11:10 GMT -5
Well he has ate most of his chicken chunks and I assume he'll polish the rest off before his PM feed. He is only recieving Ivermecton? Or something like that, that is used in cows, sheep etc. He is getting a shot of that every 2 weeks at about 0.8mL; definately has made a big impact on his feet, so can only assume it's working. He is due for another shot this Friday. He was on antibiotics incase there was an infection but I stopped that roughly 2 or 3 days ago as the course had finished. In the previous soup he didn't touch it had 8oz chicken breast, 1 lamb kidney and some water. I'll remake it for tomorrow morning and use perhaps 1/4 of a kidney or perhaps a 1/2. Tonight I will just feed him chicken chunks again and start souping tomorrow. I'll add some chicken chunks to the soup as well seeing he is eating them now. Hope he isn't stubborn over the organ meals! I did add 1/2tsp of eggshell this morning lightly ontop of his chicken, so I'll let you know. Honestly he only seems to be pooping once or twice a day, which is far less obviously....not sure if this is a good thing? Thanks for the help
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Post by deaves on Aug 9, 2011 3:24:15 GMT -5
Just had a thought. Since he is eating his chicken chunks so well, do you think it would be best to keep him eating chicken chunks and add a kidney type of gravy? Or make a chicken and kidney soup? I'd prefer the gravy idea as I like how he is eating the chunks so well, just thought I'd see what you thought was best. Also how often do you think I should add the 1/2 tsp of egg shell? And the pure pumpkin in a can has proved hard to find here. Anything else you could suggest in place? Thanks Steph
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2011 16:21:52 GMT -5
So if I read that correct, he is eating Chicken Chunks on their own now (without any soup or water)? That's an awesome step forward If he is eating the chicken chunks on their own, there is no need to go back to the soup for now. Because chicken is the only protein he's tried thus far, you actually might have more success with getting him to eat CHICKEN organs first (chicken liver and chicken kidney if you can find those). What we can try (since you want to keep him on the chunks) is making a batch of the chicken soup with just a teeny tiny amount of kidney, and then putting that as a gravy on some of his chicken chunks. You want the organ disguised enough so that you can't smell it in the soup or really see any trace of it. You can also add 1/2 tsp Heavy Cream (such as Whipping Cream) to the soup mix with the organ - this basically just disguises the taste of the organ at first. Hold off on that until tomorrow though, and just keep him eating the chicken chunks for Now. I just need to double check a few things with the other mentors (i.e. how much egg shell is safe to give per day and what you can use instead of pumpkin), as well as ask them about his meds and if they could be causing the dark, loose stools and then I will report back to you Far less stool output is totally normal once they are on raw. HOWEVER... 1-2 times per day does seem a bit too low. I'm gonna double check with the other mentors, but how much food is he eating per meal? Is it possible that you can get him to eat a bit more? I'm just a little worried he might not be getting enough. How are the poops looking? Still loose and black? How large would say they are?
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