Deaves' Switching Thread/Carpetshark

[Deleted]

All right so I have some very important questions for you to try get to the bottom of the icky poops problem, so if you wouldn't mind answering them, that would be very helpful

1.What kibble was Bruce on before switching to the chicken soup?
2. What were the ingredients of this kibble (was it CHICKEN based?)?
3. What were Bruce's poops like on the kibble (Size,shape, consistency, colour, amount per day, I want all the icky details!)
4. What were Bruce's poop like BEFORE the foot rot/mites problem? Did his poops change when this issue arose?
5. Did you notice a change in his poops when Bruce was on the antibiotics and/or after the ivermectin shot?
6. When (if you can pinpoint it) did his poops start looking bad? What was going on at this time (what was he eating, was he sick, was he on drugs, etc.)
7. Has Bruce been rechecked by a vet since stopping the antibiotics?

If not, I know you are going in this Friday to get another ivermectin shot, make sure the vet checks him over and deems him infection free, it's possible he still has some bacteria going on. Also mention the poops... I just would really hate for Bruce to have an ulcer (It would be a stress ulcer from all of the stress he's been under with his sickness, the meds and now the switch) and for us to miss that

As for pumpkin... can you find Squash instead? You can find it most easily in baby food jars (i.e. Butternut Squash) but any squash will do. See if you can find it jarred - if not I'll let you know how to make it yourself, it's just more complicated that way.

As for the egg shell I would stick to adding the 1/2tsp powdered egg shell per soup batch for now. Then when you use that batch up, use 1/2 tsp in the next one (following that recipe I gave you).

As for organ, I'm going to recommend holding off on feeding it at all for now. Bruce doesn't need it right now and will be fine without adding it for a week or two. The organ is going to upset the stool more and right now we just need to get to the root of what's causing it without adding in anymore factors, if that's okay with you of course

I might have to get you to switch to pork, just to give you a heads up so you don't going buying a swack load of chicken, because it's still a possibility Bruce has a chicken sensitivity and we might have to go on just Pork for 2 weeks to "test the theory".

But for now, keep feeding the chicken chunks till I report back.

Sorry if this seems complicated! Let me know if you have any questions!

[deaves]

All pretty straight forward Last night Bruce had alteast 2oz for AM and PM food. Both were chicken chunks and the PM food included some smashed up chicken thigh bone and some skin, which he ate all

I will feed him just chicken chunks tonight then, got those hearts do you think I should hold out on these until we figure his poos out?

To the questions...

1.What kibble was Bruce on before switching to the chicken soup?
CRAPPY Hills Science Diet Regular. It was a bulk pack so not sure, I THINK it was chicken based, well the first ingredient anyway, though had corn in it twice in the first 6 ingredients, disgusting!

2. What were the ingredients of this kibble (was it CHICKEN based?)?
Answered that above lol

3. What were Bruce's poops like on the kibble (Size,shape, consistency, colour, amount per day, I want all the icky details!)
They were roughly the size of the inside part of a CD (including the clear part),
Shape well he seemed to always pour them out like a soft serve ice cream ;D ,
A nice paste that looked not too hard or soft,
Colour was a typical brown colour,
Probably went around 5 or so times per day.
Never really had a problem or difference, they were always fairly much the same.

4. What were Bruce's poop like BEFORE the foot rot/mites problem?
Did his poops change when this issue arose?
All the same before it arose, before treatment and during treatment.

5. Did you notice a change in his poops when Bruce was on the antibiotics and/or after the ivermectin shot?
No he kept the same types of poops during the treatment. Up until recently obviously.

6. When (if you can pinpoint it) did his poops start looking bad? What was going on at this time (what was he eating, was he sick, was he on drugs, etc.)
He had just stopped his antibiotics and he was eating chicken and water soup, nothing else. At this time it seemed his poop was less, probably 2 a day, and runny and dark.

7. Has Bruce been rechecked by a vet since stopping the antibiotics?
No this Friday will be his first visit back. I haven't really noticed any change in his day to day attitude, still playful when I'm with him, and doesn't appear to be too concerned, just his poop is off. Though I've read Ferrets can be good at hiding any discomfort.


So have just been down about to give him PM food of just about 2-3oz chicken chunks and was 'lucky' ;D enough to see him poop. Bit of a fart and squirt to it, though it seemed a little more compact, though was still dark, and abit smelly. Though had tinges of a dark brown on it's edges. Hmm. Well I'll go and feed him the chunks tonight and let you get back to me to where you think we should go from here.

Oh also this morning for AM food he got about 2oz of chicken and kidney soup because I was in a huge rush and all I had time for, though he did eat it all, which is promising. So good and bad parts to today!

Thanks and look forward to where you think we should go from here.

Oh also, I will go to the shop tomorrow morning so will try to get some baby food squash, so if you think I should try a different meat like pork, let me know and I'll get it at the same time

[Deleted]

Thanks for answering all of those so quick!

So unfortunately just because he was on a chicken based kibble and had good poops, doesn't mean he doesn't have a chicken sensitivity. But after talking to all the other mentors, the general consensus is that it's the ivermectin (nasty stuff) that is causing the poops and will probably keep causing the poops until he's off of it.

So I'm thinking, since he's doing so well on the chicken (that's awesome he's eating some smashed bone!) let's not eliminate it completely yet. That being said, why not pick up some pork as well today? And we'll get him eating some chicken and pork (and that way if we do determine it to be a chicken sensitivity, he'll already be eating the pork and we can just take the chicken out later).

If you can find something called "Pork Button Bones" or "Pork End Bones" these are the best I find. The button bones are my favourite and have these tiny bones in them that look like buttons, the end bones have smaller bones as well - and they are really easy to cut/smash up and the ferrets seem to really like them.

I would give some of the heart to try too. Heart is a very important part of their diet because it gives them Taurine (which they add to kibble). It will make the poops darker and slimey looking, but that's all right. As long as he doesn't have liquid diarrhea (to the point that he could get dehydrated), let's just keep an eye for now (let me know if the poops get worse at all) and keep going with the switch

Definitely see if you can get your hands on some squash baby food. You can give him 1/2 tsp of that per day and what it will do is firm the poops up and get them looking better

I clarifyed the powdered egg shell amount too, so you're allowed to put 1/2 tsp per 8oz of meat. Anymore than that and you can actually over-do it believe it or not.

Also keep up with the smashed bone. Bone is really gonna help make the poops look better too. If you get some smaller bones (i.e. chicken rib cage bones, chicken wing tips, the pork button bones I mentioned above) you may even be able to get Bruce to eat those without smashing the whole bone. Chicken thighs will probably always need to smashed for him, as most ferrets never quite learn to get through those.

[deaves]

Awesome. Well yesterdays PM meal was chicken chunks...which he ate in a few hours (it was roughly 2oz) So I gave him more chicken chunks with about 3 chicken hearts after that. Woke this morning to only find probably one heart left. So thats good

Already gave him his AM meal and it was just chicken chunks, however I'll go to the shop soon and aim to get some pork like you mentioned and add it to tonights mix, along with some squash baby food.

His poos are still fairly runny, though not watery, and are still very dark. Though perhaps the heart added to the colour like you mentioned.

Anywho, I'll let you know how today goes and what his PM meal entails later on today

Oh and the Ivermectin is nasty stuff for sure, but it's working pretty well, and I think including his shot tomorrow it may only take one more after that. So we could be about half way through, since he has had 2 already.

[Deleted]

The heart (very blood rich) would have definitely added to the darkness of the poop.

As for the runnyness, the squash will help, keep up with the egg shell - I would crush it up and sprinkle a pinch or two on every meal (that should be roughly 1/2 tsp per 8oz of meat) and let's see if we can get him eating more bone (you don't need to add the crushed egg shell when he's eating meals with bone).

See if you can get your hands on a small Cornish hen or a frozen quail or even a small whole chicken and offer him the rib cage (you can cut it up into smaller pieces) - this is very edible bone. Then let me know how his poop looks after that.

Keep up the good work

[Deleted]

Oh and if you do go shopping before I have a chance to reply again, do get some pork meat, chop it up and mix it in with the chicken (just a little bit at first, sort of blend it in), it's definitely time to get Bruce eating a second kind of protein

[deaves]

Not sure about the cornish hen. Will keep an eye out though. Discovered the smashed bones I thought he ate the other night, well hidden in his bedding! Sneaky Bruce. Got rid of them, though gladly he is eating all the food he is given, as thats all I found. For todays PM food I gave him chicken and pork chunks, I will let you know how he goes with it in the morning.

Poos look perhaps a tiny bit better, though will keep an eye on it. Will get some chicken wings tomorrow and cut and smash then up in an aim to get him to eat some bone. Had no luck finding just plain squash baby food today. Australia's baby food seems to only want to be fancy with about 68 ingredients in one tiny jar!

I'll keep an eye on his poops and have another look for things you've mentioned to help his poops even more.

I'll update you on tonights dinner and progress soon. Any suggestions or requests you'd like me to feed him, or to feed soon?

[Deleted]

Okay so you've got two options since you can't find the canned pumpkin or the baby food squash, you can either make your own squash or you can blend and freeze lettuce (you can't just give it straight). Here are the instructions Katt, another one of the mentors gave me, since I've always just used the can pumpkin.

Aug 9, 2011 17:51:07 GMT -5 katt said:

Squash baby food works well. Otherwise he can buy squash *any kind) and boil it, then blend it in water (remove the seeds obviously) to make his own mix. It works just as well. Another option is to buy a head of iceberg lettuce, blend it up really well with some water, and then freeze it. It can then be thawed and mixed in with the meats. This is a good option for insulinomic ferrets as lettuce is about as low in sugar as you can get in a vegetable. (the lettuce MUST be blended or frozen, preferably both, to break down the fiber enough to allow it to pass through).

Let me know which you decide to go with. I know it seems like a lot of work but having a filler like pumpkin/squash/lettuce is actually very important - it helps with poops, preventing hairballs and it's very important to have on hand when your ferret has eaten something he shouldn't have and you're trying to push a blockage through.

Otherwise everything else sounds good did the pork have any bone in it?

If he does eat the pork, just keep blending it with the chicken, adding a bit more each time until we have him eating just pork. Then we'll do the pork for a few days (if the poop suddenly improves we'll know it's a chicken sensitivity) and then if we don't suspect a chicken sensitivity we can alternate pork and chicken and then add the next protein.

Do feed him the smashed chicken wings, say the next meal. And keep adding the crushed eggshell when theres no bone

[deaves]

Well for last nights PM meal it was chicken and pork chunks, he ate just about everything. So this morning I discovered I only had pork! So he got just pork chunks for his AM meal and has eaten virtually all of it For tonights PM meal I've been unable to get to the shop so another good amount of pork chunks it is.

I start my new job tomorrow, so he will have pork chunks for tomorrows AM, but on my way home will go in and get some chicken wings, providing they aren't sold out like the other day, and they can be his PM meal.

I'll keep you posted and let you know though He had a shot of Ivomec again today and the vet said we are nearly there, so see how he progresses over the next 10 or so days and go from there on that respect.

So yeah eating pork chunks well, aiming for chicken wings tomorrow, anything else you have in mind?

Cheers Steph )

[deaves]

Before I forget. The iceburg lettuce is easy for me to get. Just wondering how much exactly to mix? And is this given every meal? Just blend into a water and freeze as cubes? How much should I give each dose?

Sorry for 20 questions

[Deleted]

Sounds like it's going great!

Let me know if the poops look any better on the pork, though he did just have the shot so they might get worse.

Let's focus on getting him eating some bone now, sound good? Chicken wings are good (cut and smashed at first), same with rib cages, pork end bones, and chicken necks.

Let me know what bones you end up buying and how they go over

Also wanted to mention, not sure if you're freezing your meats or buying in small quantities for now, but when you do start buying more meat and freezing, Make sure you only thaw meat with bones in it on the counter or in cold water or the fridge. Never heat bones in the microwave as this will start to cook them and make them brittle and dangerous. Raw bones are 100% safe

Now as for the iceberg lettuce. You have two choices - you can buy a head of lettuce, freeze it, thaw it and then purée it in the blender (no water necessary unless you need some for blending). Then refreeze in smaller quantities (ice cube trays or plastic baggies work best).

Or you can purée a fresh head of lettuce, separate and then freeze.

As long as it's frozen once and puréed to break down the fiber up well and stored in the freezer for freshness, it's all good

You can feed 1/4 tsp with each meal or 1/2 tsp daily. I sometimes add more if the meal is hearts or organs or if their poop looks bad but don't exceed 1 tsp per day per ferret.

Sherry and Katt also recommended me to let you know about probioitics. You can buy them in capsule form, break them open and give a couple of pinches on the meat per day (roughly 1/4 capsule per day). These restore natural balance in the intestines and will make Bruces digestive system happier overall. So have a look at your store for some of those too (human kind or pet kind from a pet store). Just make sure there's no sugar or artificial flavored or anything like that.

keep up the good work!

[deaves]

Thanks for the info.

Bad news though unfortunately. It seems yesterdays PM and todays AM of pork chunks were barely (if at all) touched. Which stumps me because he was eating pork by itself the day before. Tonight for PM dinner I cut and smashed up a chicken wing, though when I put it down there he didn't seem all that fussed for it, not even really a lick. I'll keep an eye on him, though unfortunately due to working early tomorrow morning I'll have to try pork chunks or the kidney and chicken soup for his AM meal tomorrow. Really frustrating!

Blended the lettuce and its frozen will add that tomorrow.

Hmm so if he doesn't really touch the chicken wing tonight I guess I'll have to go back to just chicken chunks with abit of pork? This really is annoying when everything seemed so promising. I don't understand how he can eat pork fine for a day or so then decide nooope I don't like it anymore. Little brat

I'll work on probiotics next shop, which will more than likely be tomorrow after work now due to him refusing to eat much (if at all) in the last 24 hrs

[Deleted]

Hey,

So I wouldn't worry too much about the decreased appetite for now It is normal for a raw fed ferret to not have an appetite for a day and then resume eating, it doesn't necessarily mean somethings wrong or that he's taken a step back in his switching process.

Plus I have my suspicions that the ivermectin injection has a lot to do with it since he just got it and now his tummy is probably super upset

Just keep an eye on him and let me know if he starts eating again. In the mean time do you have any extra virgin olive oil or salmon or other fish oil on hand?

Try a half tsp on the meat - most ferrets LOVE oil and it works great as bribery for getting them to eat.

That being said if he continues not to eat AND you notice anything alarming (pawing at the mouth, face running, teeth grinding, very lethargic, trying to poop but nothing coming out, vomiting) do take him to a vet as these are signs of something more serious (i.e. A blockage).

That being said, don't worry too much for now. Sherry actually sent me a message letting me know this is fairly normal, before I read this.

Keep me updated

[Deleted]

How's Bruce doing?

[Deleted]

Hey Deaves,

I hope Bruce is doing all right.

I haven't heard from you in a few days but I just wanted to say if you're feeling overwhelmed at all, don't be afraid to say so. You can always resume switching at an easier time for yourself. No shame in that.

Hope all is well