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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 13:38:56 GMT -5
Hehe, Tonto sounds like a sneaky little guy. Using those cute eyes to fool momma
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Post by Heather on Feb 12, 2011 2:42:08 GMT -5
Here, the absolute, ultimate in not being quite there. My little furbaby/brat Thor ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 3:07:37 GMT -5
Aw, he's so cute! He looks like he has a little lightening bolt on his neck. How does he manage to go down stairs with that toy?
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Post by joan on Feb 12, 2011 11:18:06 GMT -5
There are a couple misconceptions in this thread that I want to correct.
First of all, MF ferrets are probably the least inbred of any of the commercial farms or even the privately bred ferrets, as they have literally thousands of ferrets and a setup which precludes inbreeding. The reason so many of the MF ferrets are less intelligent is because they have been bred for docility, and the easiest way to do that is to breed out the brains.
Second, inbreeding (or linebreeding) does not CAUSE mental or physical defects, it only brings out what the parents are carrying recessively. My most inbred ferrets are also my most intelligent ones, as it doubled up on the intelligence of both parents. They are also extremely healthy because that was doubled up on, as well.
I'd wonder if Kenai might have neurological defects as a result of NCD (Neural Crest Defects) and/or his apparent lack of intelligence may be due to lack of stimulation as a young kit, as the brain needs plenty of stimulation to develop properly.
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Post by Heather on Feb 12, 2011 12:06:26 GMT -5
I had wondered about the marshals thing. I had read an article in the ferret magazine (when it was still on paper) and the number of ferrets and their breeding program was quite hmmmm....extensive. Also written in that article was that they use 3 separate European lines. As I was once reminded by one breeder though...all our ferrets were imported at one time I wondered if by breeding for docility which they admit to doing with a lot of pride I might add, whether they were "dumbing down" their ferrets. Captain Jack was when I first got him so docile that I thought he was stupid. He's not, he's one of the smartest ferrets I have. He just never had the opportunity to be smart. I wonder with Kenai, if you continue to work with him and offer him the same stimulus that you offer Koda that he too will overcome some of his "docility breeding". Boris and Natasha are both Marshals ferrets. Boris has "issues" He has some serious birth defects and they affect him. Thor is a breeders ferret....he's just "dumb". He's cute but he's dumb. He has neural crest or waardenburg's and he's not even a farm ferret You asked about Thor, the stairs and the stuffed chippy Please excuse the dump in the corner....like I've explained the reason why the chipmunk is stashed in the litter box is because Thor hasn't a clue about what it's used for. Yes. I've used all sorts of litter box training. Thor poops in his water dish, ok....he's cute but not too bright. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 13:35:57 GMT -5
Joan, thanks for that info! I was not aware that Marshall ferrets weren't inbred Heather, that is such a funny video! Thor is super cute! Who needs litter boxes when mommy cleans up after you?
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Post by Sherry on Feb 12, 2011 13:42:17 GMT -5
That is too funny, Heather ;D Thor really DOES think those handy little boxes are for everything but pooping, doesn't he
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Post by katt on Feb 14, 2011 5:22:03 GMT -5
Interesting relies! Heather your boys are too cute! I know that Kenai is still a baby and might get a bit smarter. But for now, he is jsut a little slow. ;D Also, Joan thank you for the info. Yes, I am aware that inbreeding does not lead to low-intelligence directly, but it does increase the chance of a recessive gene being inherited, and thus various genetic defects, etc. Intelligence is at least partly genetic. I also agree that lack of stimulation might have played a part as well. He does learn, jsut veeery slowly. It was very good to hear that Marshall's has a very large breeding stock though! I was always under the impression that their ferrets tend to be inbred. As for the NCD, what are some other signs of that, if any? Kenai does have an odd bump on the bridge of his nose, and his ears are very...for lack of a better term, simple. Koda's in comparison are highly folded with many ridges. I know that these could easily be jsut a matter of genetics though as well. I mean your nose is different from mine, and your ears are different. But I do recall talkign to Heather about the bump on his nose when I first got him and she had a ferret with the same nose shape who was also kind of slow. I do not think Kenai has Waardenberg's, he doesn't show any other signs of it really. Just seems to be a bit slow mentally. He is quite adorable though.
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Post by katt on Mar 24, 2011 14:31:48 GMT -5
I had to add Kenai's latest adventure... When I open say the top level of the FN, and the boys are on the bottom, Koda immediately comes running up to the top to get out. Kenai...stands at the bottom doors and looks confused. "Why aren't you letting me out? I can come play? You love me? Play? Why is the door not opening?" ;D Well I know he is a bit of a slow learner, so I thought I could maybe help him along a little. He was on the shelf of the bottom level, and I opened the top level. As usual, he only waited at the bottom doors. I banged on the floor of the top level. He looked harder at the bottom level doors. I slammed the top level doors against the cage a few times (like opening and closing loudly) he looked more pathetic at the bottom level doors. So I reached into the hole and poked his butt. He turned and gave my hand a quick look so I pulled back thinking he would realize I was on he top level and follow me. Nope. Right back to the bottom level doors. Staring at me through the bars. With that "Why can't I come out?" look. So I tried again and he followed my hand (I moved reeeally slow), stuck his head through the hole... I was like yaaay he got it. So I pulled my hand back expecting him to lumber up and come to the open door. No. He slides back down the ladder and runs to the bottom level cage doors. *facepalm* Okay...new tactic. I grab the ramp and bang it up and down to make lots of noise. He gets interested and turns around. Then turns back to the bottom level cage doors when I stop. My hand is sticking through the hole into the bottom level, obviously poking in from the top level. But the bottom level doors HAVE to open eventually right? ;D So I try again. I bang the ramp up and down against the shelf and make a racket. Kenai lumbers over and sniffs the ramp...walks up following my hand as I coax him along... he gets his head through the hole...almost there....his front legs are about on the top level...he SEES me standing at the WIDE OPEN top level doors...he sniffs around...then slides back down the ramp and plants his fat furry but back on the shelf in front of the bottom level doors. Finally I took pity on him (he looked so sad and and confused as to why he could not come out and play!) and let him out through the bottom level... *shakes head* My poor poor mentally challenged Kenai. He is just... slow. But we love him anyways. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 24, 2011 14:46:30 GMT -5
I have had some extremely intelligent Marshalls ferrets. some have been too smart for their own good.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2011 14:57:21 GMT -5
You know, I have a ferret that sounds JUST like that.. she is just very.. pokey?
She does the same thing. If I open one of the doors of my FN and she's not on that floor, she just sits there and stares me like, "well? you gonna open this thing or what?" My other kit, Dexter, has figured out there are multiple doors and will run to which ever one is open.. She's deaf, so I can't do the banging-ramp-noises, but I do try to show her which door to go to with my hands/stuffies and she always runs back up to the top and stares at me or starts gnawing on the bars.
It's the same thing when they play. Dexter is in to EVERYTHING. he's figured out how to open my closet door, how to climb their FN and get onto my window sill, h*ll he even knows how to pull books off of my bookshelf and open them and flip pages!
But my little pokey one just sort of meanders around, smelling the flowers, admiring the view. Every so often Dexter will go racing past and she'll pounce on him, but he escapes and runs off and she goes back to just sniffing about.
It was the funniest thing when I first made them a dig box. I put Dexter in it and he went to work right away, digging and snorkeling around. I put her in the box and she looked around for a second, then looked up at me like "..and?"
I can't really describe it. She's not dumb, just.. slow? Everything she does is at a much slower pace than Dexter. Walking, playing, learning..
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Post by katt on Mar 24, 2011 15:20:06 GMT -5
Kenai looves digging, and he is definitely NOT slow at hunting. He plays fast too - you would be amazed at how quickly he can transport his chub from point A to point Jingley-Ball. But everything else? He's just a pokey porker. He just kind of lubmers around sniffing things and digging things. Playing quietly with his toys. Snuggling. But he makes little to no effort to figure things out, and when he does make that effort you can see how hard it is for him to keep those wheels turning. He gets this look of...consternation on his face. Like he is thinking through honey. lol He can't climb things higher than the FN shelf (and even then he almost always uses his "step stool" feeding den). When he wants up on the bed? This is how he tries.... I will have to take pictures, but in Shane's room, there is a strange little ledge, maybe 4-6 inches tall and wide, on the floor along one wall. Koda loves to run along it and use it a launchpad to get on the bed. He can get on the bed from floor level too but the extra few inches gives him a boost. When I am sitting on the bed studying I will occasionally look down and see Kenai laying on his back under the bed, head poking out just staring at me like "Well....I can come up yes?" Other times when he wants up, he tries to use the ledge to get up....by putting his front feet on the ledge, and trying to climb the wall. Then he will stand there and stare at the wall...facing away from the bed, like the complete opposite direction....with that look of "I know this thing will get me up there somehow...." I'm just like um, wrong direction buddy! ;D I usually take pity on him and pick him up onto the bed when I see him trying to get up that way. lmao When I do you can see he is the happiest ferret ever. He's like "OMG it worked! I is on the beds! I did it!" Me: *facepalm* Ooohhh Silly Kenai..... ;D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2011 15:25:23 GMT -5
OMG too funny
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Post by sherik on Mar 24, 2011 22:15:58 GMT -5
I have one of those ferrets. Indy is 3 1/2lbs of pure blubber. He can't get up the stairs, or on the couch. I have to carry him up stairs as that is everyones favorite play area. Then I have to keep an eye open for if he wants down the stairs, cause he will just roll. I have caught him a few times in mid roll. I think it is just part of being a fat kit.
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Post by katt on Mar 24, 2011 22:17:20 GMT -5
hahaha Poor Indy! That is really funny!
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