Do you think it could work??

[Deleted]

Right! Which means that except for Sables - all other ferret colors ARE technically dilutes.

Besides rabbits and koi, ferrets are likely quite high on the list of domestic animals specifically bred to produce Albinos. Even though albinism has its fair share of health problems.

Maybe some of the breeders here can enlighten us as to how often an abino and other dilute kits would show up when two sables are crossed?

So far most information says there are no "breeds" within the species of ferret. For the less scientific of us I can best describe it like this: within the species of domestic horse there are several breeds - like Arabian, appaloosa, shetland - each breed has specific genetic markers that cause it to develop with certain physical and mental manners. Still they are all horses and respond to similar stimulus, need similar foods and suffer similar problems. The same holds true for the domestic canine and feline.

So far it hasn't been proved that there are specific breeds within the domestic ferret. Yet if it simply takes defined matings, outcrossings and infusings to define a breed (as in the Morgan Horse, the Tennessee Walking Horse, Kentucky Mountain Horse, Florida Cracker Pony) why isn't it possible that we already DO have breeds of ferrets? I propose that Marshalls is a breed, Path Valley is a breed, Triple F is a breed and some of the longer termed private breeders may well be creating breeds of ferrets.

So now that I've blathered about this - how do we go about proving the vigor or benefit of one breed over the other? Will each breed lean towards a specific phenotype as well as coloration and temperament?

?
Cheers,
Kim

[Sherry]

Now that's an interesting thought!

[Deleted]

You do raise a fantastic point!

[Heather]

Oh the fun of genetics.
By the way an awesome read on ferret coat colour genetics (which is what this is about) is Fret Popper's "The Coat Colour Book"..the genetics of coat colouration in the domestic ferret.
Seemingly, a true albino is not a dilute. A pink eyed albino is a dilute and yes there is a difference. An albino is a mutation on the pigment production genes inhibiting the full expression of other coat colour genes. The inability of an albino animal to produce pigment stems from a lack of tyrosinase and not the absense of pigment cells as is found in "white spotting".
Short of making this really complicated and long...there doesn't seem to be really good short explanations when trying to explain genetics.
C-locus = albino (tyrosinase locus)
"The product of the C-locus is tyronsinase the most important enzyme involved in melanin production. Tyrosinase initates the vonversion process of the protein tyrosine to melanin and allows the full expression of other colour genes. No tyrosinase means no clour even in the presense of all the other colour genes." "Albino mutations affect the amount of tyrosinase and of melanin in pigment cells but do not interfere with the production of pigment cells (melanocytes) in themselves"
The only major health issue that comes through in albinos is poor eyesight (and selective hearing that is a failing with all our ferrets ;D) This cannot be said for some of our various coloured fuzzes.
Let's try the DEW and see if you can pick up the differences.
"Even though they do have the enzyme for synthesising pigment, what they lack are melanosomes the factories for pigment production. How then is it possible for DEWS to have those shiny deep black eyes? It starts with the migration of neural crest cells (stem cells)" (here we go again guys...why are most of our DEWs deafies??) "Melanoblasts from the TNC don't reach their destination to become pigment cells. The visible result is-white hair and skin. But if those cells don't reach the inner ear as well, the animal will be deaf"
Dilutions are a mutation of the D-locus, something entirely different.
"Mutations at the D-locus have a dilution effect on genotypes that would otherwise provide for an intensely pigmented coat colour. This effect is not due to a reduction in the amount of pigment in the hair. To the contrary, mutations at the D-locus results in the phenotypes that may have more hair pigment than the corresponding non-dilute animals but the pigment is deposited into a few very large clumps. Dilution creates very attractive pastel coat colours." The problem is that unlike the alibino that is affected only through it's lack of pigment, this affects much much more. "Pastels come at at price. Compromised immune systems, platelet deficiencies, neurological disorders, kidney and liver failure, tumours and shortened lifespans.
The only natural occuring colours for a ferret is albino and sable or poley. They would only occur rarely if people hadn't interfered and decided they were the ultimate hunting tool. For two sable parents to create an albino kit both parents must carry each carry one albino allele. Categorically speaking if each parent carried 1 albino allele then there would be a one in four chance of creating an albino kit. Think blue eyes/brown eyes/green eyes of your high school biology class
ciao

[Deleted]

Wikipedia has a decent explanation of the punnett square and some probabilities. Interestingly they describe the differences of genotype and phenotype.

There is a comment about gene expression depending upon actual development of specific proteins for the genes. There's another harck back to high school biology - proteins being the building blocks...

so my mind wonders again, how diet affects the development -it has been proved that a high FAT diet will cause more MALE mice to be born. So does a high protein diet help the ferret lean towards the poley/sable coloration? Is that natural diet one reason why polecats rarely produce albinos or diluted colorations? hmmmm

I'm a twin, fraternal not identical. And within our family there are two other sets of fraternal twins. Twinning in humans seems to skip a generation. My brother's eyes are brown, while mine are hazel. Genetics are interesting to me.

But for all the influence genetics can play, there are tremendous influences from nutrition and environment also.

Cheers,
Kim

[Heather]

The suggestion or theory is that (as far as colour) in the wild an albino or a dilute wouldn't survive to reproduce. So that has to be factored as well. I have to admit though, diet does hold an interesting concept as I've had a number of ferrets who have come in eating kibbles and have actually changed colours once on a raw diet. I had a beautiful champagne or sandy sprite come in and a year after being on a raw diet she was a sable. I've been watching Minion closely because he's one of this year's favourite colours....the champagne....I'm wondering if his colour will hold true. I've just taken in another rescue, Atreyu and he's a panda type (too dark to be a true panda) and has just been switched to raw. I've found they too, revert to sable as well.
ciao

[Sherry]

Interesting you mention that! Zeus, a medium silver developed a beautiful white coat with a few black guard hairs. Athena, a champagne has no decided she's a sable, albeit a lighter coloured one. Frodo, a panda has now roaned out to amost white.
Granted, I realize these are all still "fancies", but all happened within a year or just over of being on a raw diet.

[Heather]

Now those colours that you mention, are genetically unstable to begin with. Roaning is a natural process of a brown coat (oculcutaneous albinism type 3 - OCA3). B= Black eumelanin dominant and b= brown eumelanin recessive. This colour mutation often reduces with age becoming gray. If they were to live long enough they would become white. The silvers almost always become DEWs (raw diet or not) and that has to do with the reduction of pigments produced
ciao

[Deleted]

Hey Lorelai, I sent you an email to your email address found on the site. Just an FYI.

[Sherry]

I have to wonder if the diet simply sped up the process? Zeus was a silver til he was three, Athena a champagne til the same age.

[Deleted]

Dietary changes to raw do offer exceptional coat changes! Certainly one of the first changes is elimination of that awful orangey/ yellowing practically all kibble fed ferrets display, especially the ones eating cheap cat food and the 8 in one ferret food from Walmart.

Roman, my champagne, lost a lot of that orange undertone and his true sparkling color was illuminated.



Of course Kosmo's naked self re- coated with the natural diet and adrenal medicine support. Davinci's coat changed immensely with the improved kibble diet. So can we determine that the natural diet offers their TRUE colors to display? I'd say definitely!

If we can observe such changes in their coats after dietary improvements, wouldn't it stand to reason that a proper diet for breeding animals would offer them their ideal genetic potential?

Proper proteins offer the best building blocks. Hormones are based upon proteins, genes are made with DNA which create proteins - so without the proper building blocks to create the right proteins.... how can a ferret get the proper start?

Eons of evolution tend to select coat colors that work best for the animal's survival. Humans tend to muck that up with what we think is pretty. Couple that with the poor diet and how can we expect them to maintain genetic vigor?

Nature does create odd colorations sporadically, so the variations for colors are within their codings. Do these color variations fade back because their oddities keep them separate from their normal members? If enough of the color variants get produced, they'll begin to set up their own offshoot "breed".

The various birds of paradise come to mind.

Cheers,
Kim