Therippletide's Switching Thread/Sherry

[Heather]

Name: Kat
HF Forum Username: therippletide

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?

I'm part of an online dog lover's forum where I learned raw feeding for dogs. Some of the members there are also ferret people and mentioned how good it was for ferrets.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to.

I'd love to switch Rip over to a fully raw diet, with some occasional whole prey.

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?

The changes in my dogs were amazing with raw. They are so much healthier and happier. I really want to make sure Rip has a happy, healthy life and a good foundation for that would be a good, raw diet.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process?

Yep. I understand and I'm more than willing to stick with it for however long it takes.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?

I only have one ferret, a female light silver named Ripple (Rip for short). I have no idea of her age, my best guess is a few months since her teeth are still clean. To my knowledge she has no health problems. Currently she seems to be a little underweight. I got her last week and have been trying to get some weight back on the girl. She's almost there, but still a little skinny.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)

Currently Rip is eating Evo cat food mixed with some donated Taste of the Wild cat food. She's kind of picky about her food, and other than the occasional peanut butter, doesn't really eat anything other than her kibble. She'd like to try more sweets, but I won't let her.

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?

When I first brought her home I tried to start her out with some raw chicken meat. Since my house is pretty much a dog zone that was the only food I had for her. She licked it a little, then ignored it. I thought it would be like switching the hounds had been. Ha! She showed me! ;D

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

I've had a total of nine ferrets in the past. They were wonderful little terrors. Unfortunately I didn't have the knowledge that I do now, so they ate a cheap brand. I'm really excited to start feeding raw to Rip, and get things right this time around!

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?

Every day, for a good chunk of the day. I go to school online, so internet access isn't too much of a problem.

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (sherry) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[Sherry]

Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch
First, a little about me. I'm 51, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 6yrs, to 17(only one would eat raw, unfortunately ). I also have 8 ferrets. Boris and Vincent came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead(rip). I got her when she was 2. She passed at almost the age of 8, had adrenal for 3 years, treated with lupron for 2 of those.
After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus and Athena, both two years old at that time. Also both adrenal, and on lupron.
After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's becoming a sweetie . Then, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of.Suki is the last one, I swear! She was a little 8 month old darling the pet store was having a hard time selling, so were getting ready to send her back!
While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. Although Boris would still be a kibble head if I let him.
The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet.
With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. Suki was another kibble head, but caging her in the daytime with Miss Emily showed her how to eat raw.
That's me and mine in a nutshell

The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma.
So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat
Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even Sinnead's teeth were amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed!
And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay!
I'm looking forward to helping your little ones get on a much healthier diet, and having fun while we're at it ;D

[therippletide]

Hey Sherry! I'm so excited to be working with you! I could really use a lot less poop, that's for sure I'd forgotten what kibble poos are like to clean up.

[Sherry]

I know what you mean by the kibble poops ;D Anyway, let's get to work
Take about 8oz of the chicken, puree it with a couple of hearts, a liver, about 1/4 powdered eggshell, and enough water to make it soupy. You can freeze it in ice cube trays, and baggie when frozen. I use a coffee grinder kept for the purpose of grinding eggshell, others use a mortar and pestle. Rinse out your shells when you have eggs, let them dry for a couple of days, then powder them.
Once you've got the soup made, put some in a small plate, pick up Rip, and offer it. Since she licked the chicken, she might take it willingly. If not, offer her some from your finger. Hopefully, she'll lick it off. If so, keep giving her the first serving like that. If not, scruff her, and dab it on her nose so she has to lick it off. Just keep doing that over and over for now.
Let me know how she takes to it!

[therippletide]

Just curious, is it okay to use some pork heart and beef liver instead of chicken? If chicken is better I'll go ahead and get some, but I'd like to check first.

[Sherry]

Of course! If she'll take it, go ahead

[therippletide]

YAY! Success!! I didn't think I'd get a chance to get some chicken hearts and livers, but I did. I ground them up this morning with the powdered eggshells and meat. I let her sniff it, and she just started chowing down! She didn't finish it, so I left it in her cage and when I came back from walking the dogs the plate was licked clean!

Another question though, how should I be feeding her? Free-feeding doesn't seem like a good option, should I feed her twice a day? Once a day? How much should she get per feeding?

[Sherry]

Wow Congratulations!!! I can't believe she took to it so well
As for amounts, during the transition period, for up to 2-4 months following, appetites are almost through the roof. Give her whatever she'll eat. I feed twice a day, and make sure I leave enough in the cage that there are only 1 or 2 pieces left at the next feeding. If they are large chunks, I simply reduce the amount I give next time round, and by the following meal after that, all of it is usually gone.
Leaving the meat in the cage is not going to hurt them by any means
For amounts, my females eat between 1-3 oz per day. But like I said, at the beginning you could almost double that. Same goes when winter appetites kick in. If you are having too much left over, just feed less, and if there is nothing, add more to the next meal.
Is there any particular reason you can't just leave her meat in there with her?
Also, if she's taken to the grind so well, try adding some small chunks next time- she just might eat those as well

[therippletide]

Okay, I'll feed twice a day then and work off of how much she's eating.

I'm not really worried about leaving the meat in the cage for a little while, but my mom is a little paranoid about it. She's okay with it being left out for about an hour, then she gets worried.

I added a few chunks to today's meals and she ate the smaller ones, but gave up on the larger ones, which were about a 1/2 inch across. Should I be cutting it a little smaller? Also, for fun I let her take a sniff at a whole chicken wing yesterday, she worked on it a little, but when she hit the bone she stopped and went off to play again.

[Sherry]

It's going to take a while, as she has to basically learn how to chew. And build up her jaw/neck/head/shoulder muscles to do the job
It's kind of like asking a person who's sat at a desk for years to go out an start weight lifting about 150 lbs or so ;D While they will ultimately be able to do it, they have to practice a lot first
Ok, since she accepts the smaller chunks, let's stay with that for now. Give her 2-3 days with those, then start slipping a few bits that are a wee bit larger. Not enough to have to chew them just yet, but she'll also have to get used the feel of larger as well. We'll worry about bone later on, although you can keep offering her wing tips if you have chicken.

[Sherry]

Oh! You might also want to start getting her used to a feeding den to satisfy your mother's concern about the meat. That way, she learns to keep it confined to one area.
It does take some work, though. You can use old soda boxes if you like, and just toss them when they get too grungy. Or you can buy a smallish rubbermaid tub with a lid. It has to be big enough for her to fit her body into, with just a hole cut into the front of it.
You can start by giving her all her meals in there. Keep her kibble in there as well when you feed it.
Now would also be the time to remove her kibble all night, and feed her the raw in the den in the morning. Put the kibble back in, though, when she goes back into her cage for the day. Or the other way around, if you prefer that.

[Sherry]

Hi, any updates?

[therippletide]

Hey Sherry, I'm so sorry I kind of vanished for a little there. Life's been a little hectic, and school has been nuts.

Rip's doing great, she's been eating the larger chunks pretty easily. I haven't been able to set up a feeding den yet, but hopefully this weekend I'll be able to go find some good rubbermaid tubs. My mom has decided that she doesn't mind so long as it's not sitting out for days at a time. I'm feeding her twice a day, once in the morning, once in the evening, and usually she finishes everything off.

I'm a little confused about how available I should make kibble though. At first I thought that I was supposed to take it away completely, but it sounds like I should keep it around. Should I be leaving it out during the day, then removing at night? Or have it out all the time? I ran out of kibble a few days ago so I was just feeding raw, which was working beautifully until I forgot to let the meat thaw out for the next grind. I got some more kibble, and put it out for her today, but with no raw and she gave me this look like "what, you expect me to eat this slop?" Silly girl!

Oh yes, and I forgot to mention that she's also been really good about eating only over her plate. She eats raw off of a little dish, and there's only ever been one time when she dragged something off of it. Even the larger chunks she keeps on the plate. She's so good.

[Sherry]

Hey, if she's eating raw reliably, get rid of that kibble!!! The idea is to have her fully raw with whole prey . The only time you need to worry about the kibble is if she's not eating enough raw to sustain herself. Which doesn't sound like a problem now!
Alright, is she just eating chicken yet? If so, try introducing a different protein now. Your choice. Just make it something you can easily get on a regular basis.

[therippletide]

So far it's only been the chicken grind with occasional chunks of beef thrown in. Will pork and beef be all right? Also, when I change it up, should I still use chicken livers and hearts, or should I try adding pork heart and beef liver?