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Post by Klarissa on Jul 29, 2016 19:51:23 GMT -5
Your answers look good (though Katt gets the final say ) You're almost there! An updated version of your weekly menu?
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Post by Aftershock on Jul 29, 2016 20:21:59 GMT -5
Egg can be given on its own, or it can be served with a regular meal. If you go down the path of only feeding whole prey, then you do not need additional organ meals (though extra hearts never hurt). With whole prey you still need a minimum of three proteins: mice, rats, asf, whole quail, guinea pig, whole rabbit, etc. They are like furry little happy meals so there's no worry about them picking out organs because they are getting them served every day? Also, would you leave the whole prey out all day, or switch it up in the evening like the frankenprey menu? Monday am- Turkey neck 6-7 oz pm- CGH 7-10 oz Tuesday am- Beef 6-7 oz pm- Turkey neck 7-10 oz Wednesday am- Heart 7-8 oz pm- CGH 7-10 oz Thursday am- Turkey neck 6-7 oz pm- CGH 7-10 oz Friday am- Pork 6-7 oz pm- CGH 7-10 oz Saturday am- 1/2 heart, 1/2 liver 6-7 oz pm- Turkey neck 7-10 oz Sunday am- Liver 6-8 oz pm- CGH 7-10 oz I could end up switching over to whole prey since kidneys are not something I'm finding in town, but that would be a future thing.
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Post by katt on Jul 29, 2016 21:38:30 GMT -5
6. If they have been raw fed, when you hold them so their body dangles they should look like a uniform tube sock. Another thing is weighing them to keep track of their fluctuations so you can tell if they are sick.This really applies to any ferret, regardless of diet. Their sides should be parallel. Hourglass shape indicates they are underweight, bulging sides (or otherwise uneven fat distribution, e.g. rolls behind the armpits lol) typically indicates they are overweight if they are overall healthy, **OR** if asymmetric can be due to an enlarged liver (bulge on right), enlarged spleen (bulge on left), water retention due to heart disease (bulging belly), etc. But typically an otherwise healthy ferret should have parallel sides. 7. Fatter cuts.Just wanted to add that this is because ferrets use fat as their primary energy source (vs humans who use carbohydrates). 8. You shouldn't serve all of those things together because first, that's going to stress out the poor ferrets intestines, two, because they are just going to eat their favorite thing, three, if you have more than one ferret it's hard to know who is eating what.No and yes. Your answer is mostly correct, but the first part is wrong. It does not stress out their intestines at all and in fact is really the "ideal" way to feed if you think of how they eat in the wild (whole prey). IF you have ONE ferret, you know exactly what he is eating bc there is no one else to eat it, so in that case you CAN feed mixed meals BUT you will have to weigh the content of each item in each meal (e.g. a 2oz meal would have to have 0.2oz heart, 0.2oz organ, and 1.6oz meat+bones) so that gets complicated and tricky, esp for people who get easily confused by math and numbers. But most people aren't that great with math it seems, and MOST ferret owners have more than one ferret. The big reasons to not feed mixed meals are the other reasons you stated - you can't tell who is eating what, and they will not for sure get a balanced diet bc they will pick out their favorite parts and/or avoid the parts they don't like. 9. Spring, they should get darker, eat less, and blow their coat. Fall, they will start to lighten up, eat a ton, and their coat should thicken up. Seasonal coat changes vary from ferret to ferret and year to year. The "typical" change is darker in summer lighter in winter, but that isn't always the case. Silvers or roans particularly tend to get lighter and lighter with each shed. Also, just a technicality - but "blowing coats" actually happens with Each seasonal change. They blow (shed) their winter coat and grow a summer coat, then they blow their summer coat and grow a winter coat. hurricanekatt please tell me you are going to post pictures up!The professional pics aren't done yet. I happened to be sitting with my computer in reach so I opened it up just for you. Photographer sneak peak: My absolute favorite picture ever (saved the best for last):
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Post by katt on Jul 29, 2016 21:42:07 GMT -5
so there's no worry about them picking out organs because they are getting them served every day? Also, would you leave the whole prey out all day, or switch it up in the evening like the frankenprey menu? I could end up switching over to whole prey since kidneys are not something I'm finding in town, but that would be a future thing. Nope, they don't tend to do that with prey. They WILL very artfully remove the intestinal tract and leave it in creative places around the cage (they don't typically eat the intestines), but otherwise they eat it as is. Like Klarissa said a Happy Meal, or a little ferret Hot-Pocket. If you want to do whole prey, I would introduce it to them sooner rather than later - the soner the better. It is MUCH easier to introduce them to new things while they are still kits. Even if you aren't ready to feed it regularly, you can at least get them familiar with it and then give it as an occasional treat, so they will recognize it later when you are ready to add it in more often. ESPECIALLY to get them used to eating fur. One of the rows on the chart got duplicated so I need to adjust this, but otherwise read the following RE feeding whole prey + Frankenprey: holisticferretforum.com/natural-diet/raw-diet-the-meat-of-the-site/balancing-frankenprey-with-alternative-meals/
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Post by Aftershock on Jul 29, 2016 22:22:24 GMT -5
Why am I thinking that it can cause issues? Maybe I'm thinking more beginning raw switch. Katy, those pictures are SO ADORABLE! (My favorite has to be you holding both of them!) And you look so amazing! I'm just so happy for you! That's a good idea to use the whole prey as 'treats'! Any tips for getting them to eat fur?
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Post by katt on Jul 29, 2016 23:02:45 GMT -5
They are kits. Get a frozen mouse from the pet store (look in the freezer by the fish, that's where the reptile-food rodents are kept). Thaw and warm them, slit open the belly (works best to make a hole with a knife then use scissors to cut the skin open) and put it in their food dish. If they don't go right for it after being in their food dish a day, then treat it like a min-switch as you would for any other new protein. Cut the whole mouse into pieces and mix it into some similarly sized cuts of a meat they already love (e.g. chicken chunks). If THAT doesn't work you can keep going "backwards" (smaller chunks, hand feed, etc) - even as far as blending it up into a soupie and adding a tiny bit at a time to chicken soup, gradually increasing the mouse soup and decreasing the chicken soup until they take mouse soup, then adding mouse chunks to the mouse soup, increasing the chunk size, etc. But as kits they will be much more receptive to it now than if you try to introduce it later. The nice thing about introducing raw so young is they get used to the constant variety. ESPECIALLY if you work to give them a lot of variety really early on. My boys know what their feeding den is, and know that what I put in it is food. They have had constant variety from the age of 8 weeks old, so something new showing up in the food dish is "old news" to them and for the most part, they will accept just about anything I put in there. (With some exceptions lol egg and fish took a while, but now they both gobble those right up). They've had just about everything from moose to hamster. They don't constantly get that much variety, bc some of it is hard to come by - e.g. guinea pig is not a very common meal for them. But because I introduced a lot of variety early, and periodically add new things as I come across them, they are used to an unexpected change in protein.
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Post by Aftershock on Jul 29, 2016 23:09:12 GMT -5
Awesome, I can do that!
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Post by katt on Aug 2, 2016 20:19:12 GMT -5
Hey, any word on the rabbit? Also, have you tried any chicken yet, or only CGH.
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 3, 2016 9:07:19 GMT -5
No word on rabbit yet, but I was wondering if until I get some could I use duck or goose? Or is that too much bird in their diet?
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 3, 2016 10:05:48 GMT -5
And I finally found some kidneys! I'm picking up three beef kidneys today. I'm kind of irritated that this has been such a pain. One butcher I called wouldn't even take my number, not to mention he was a bit of a jerk, another place I called will give me lung, kidney, and pancreas but doesn't have any slaughtering scheduled until the end of August, he will actually call me if he gets it in before, and a place I called in rigby (it's a bit of a drive from Idaho falls) has the kidneys today, but they can't give me pancreas or anything else because they are some type of certified. you'd think with as much of a hunting/ranching area this is that this would be easier to find.
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Post by katt on Aug 3, 2016 20:42:09 GMT -5
Yay! Congrats on the kidney find. Duck and goose would be fantastic options to add. We submitted your menu for final approval and Heather raised a very good point and one I hadn't considered. Usually I have people using chicken as the main bone source since CGH is so much more expensive so I haven't ever really thought of it much, but CGH is so small bc it is young hens. As such the bones are not fully developed and while they are a nice sized edible bone option, they should not be the primary bone source. Otherwise you risk deficiencies. We don't advocate young animals as a good bone source. But people usually use CGH as an additional/occasional option so I never really thought about the age of CGH much. Honestly, chicken gives you better bang for your buck anyways. It's a lot cheaper - I Usually get a whole chicken for $7-10 - and pound for pound the amount of chopping and prep work is similar. You still have to chop X pounds of meat into X number of meals either way. So we definitely need to find some other bone sources for you. Chicken, duck, and goose are all GREAT options. Plus the turkey necks, rabbit. Pork rib tips can be eaten by some ferrets too, so that's always worth a shot.
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 3, 2016 22:56:18 GMT -5
Well, now that I have like four months worth of kidney I can rest semi easy. Ahhhhhh, wellllll, that would make sense. I can go grab a chicken and chop it up, but I bought three CGH's yesterday, so is there any way I can put in one a week until it's gone?
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Post by katt on Aug 4, 2016 0:03:15 GMT -5
Well, now that I have like four months worth of kidney I can rest semi easy. Ahhhhhh, wellllll, that would make sense. I can go grab a chicken and chop it up, but I bought three CGH's yesterday, so is there any way I can put in one a week until it's gone? Oh for sure, we just need to switch things up so that the CGH isn't your primary bone source. You can definitely still feed it. You mentioned duck and goose easier - those are Great proteins. Do you have access to them?
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Post by Aftershock on Aug 4, 2016 8:00:01 GMT -5
yes, the store that I get my stew beef, t bones, and CGH got some duck and goose in. So that shouldn't be an issue anymore. ^-^
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Post by Klarissa on Aug 4, 2016 13:40:25 GMT -5
Sorry I've been AWOL Woohoo on the kidney find! The CGH being a juvenile animal never crossed my mind. I wonder if this applies to Veal tail & lamb tail I feed (albeit it's very occasional). As Katt said, duck & goose are fantastic proteins. I don't think a bird heavy diet is inherently a bad thing - provided it's a variety of birds. I feed a bird heavy diet, but I feed very little chicken (like 3-4 meals a month).
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