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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Jun 3, 2016 21:13:33 GMT -5
I had a very confusing conversation with my vet today. Since our ECE outbreak we have had a lot of digestive issues. Some tweaking of their diet was needed and some things have been just plain bad luck. Our vet announces that she has decided that the issues are due to salmonella contamination in their food.(No testing has been done to support this conclusion.) She continued to tell me that the only safe raw food option in her & her mentors opinion are whole prey and a very expensive food purchased from the vendors who sell to zoos(as it is somehow cleaner in their opinion ). I was told that I need to switch them to the "zoo" food or kibble as soon as possible. Felt like do this or be kicked out of the practice. I do use one of the vets who works at our zoo and I plan to discuss this with him tomorrow. But seriously what the heck. I have worked with her to some extent since 2012 and I have always fed raw. She is the best vet in our area. (headwall) (headwall) (headwall)
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Post by Heather on Jun 3, 2016 21:56:53 GMT -5
She has no right to give you those options. You pay for her services. She can voice her opinion but she has no right to make you feel that she will withdraw her services. This is old school practice from 29 yrs ago. ciao
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Post by bitbyter on Jun 3, 2016 22:27:25 GMT -5
If she has not done any fecal exams she has nothing to back those claims up. If she had, I would at least consider bacterial overgrowth as a possibility (doesn't have to be salmonella) but without them, she is just asking for you to go elsewhere.
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Jun 3, 2016 23:02:00 GMT -5
If she has not done any fecal exams she has nothing to back those claims up. If she had, I would at least consider bacterial overgrowth as a possibility (doesn't have to be salmonella) but without them, she is just asking for you to go elsewhere. We do regular fecal exams with them occassionally testing with bacteria overgrowth. I can only think of two incidents where loose stools were treated and one was viral. I will request that they send me our reports on our fecals for the past year. I'll go over them with another vet and see what he thinks. She stood there saying that all US meat sources but "zoo quality" are contaminated. Well hundreds of ferrets & other pets are eating them without issues. I'm just so shocked and irritated.
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Post by katt on Jun 4, 2016 2:12:34 GMT -5
So she's saying that zoo meat is cleaner than carefully regulated and frequently inspected meat sold for human consumption....? Let's not forget how sterile kibble is - no contamination there ever. *rolls eyes* (Maybe not her saying that but anti-raw people commonly think that). And whole prey? Prey that was raised in a box of bedding contaminated by its own feces (I'm sure we all know how much rodents poop...), with instestinal tract (the home of most bugs) still intact? If she say, argued that zoo meat isn't pumped as full of antibiotics and growth hormone, and that the antibiotics in the meat are messing with gut balance and allowing the overgrowth of bad strains of bacteria, that I might buy (if that were the case)...but I'd like to see some hard, statistically significant, data....
It's pretty crappy of her to put you in this position. That said...if the zoo resource sells meat, they probably sell in bulk - it might be cheaper than human grade meat?
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Jun 4, 2016 7:23:07 GMT -5
It's pretty crappy of her to put you in this position. That said...if the zoo resource sells meat, they probably sell in bulk - it might be cheaper than human grade meat? She made a big point about how expensive this "zoo quality"meat is. But Dr Pate will be open in a hour. Our zoo is small so I should be able to talk to their nutritionist as well. When the current ferret having issues came in and was still eating kibble, it was just stress but now that he is eating raw his recurring loose stools are food related. I feel like my ferrets health is now at risk. We have all seen/heard of raw ferrets not being treated because the vet is convinced every issue is due to raw feeding.
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Post by Sherry on Jun 4, 2016 8:57:55 GMT -5
Also remind her even kibble fed will test positive for salmonella. It is natural for them.
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Post by katt on Jun 4, 2016 13:33:29 GMT -5
Also remind her even kibble fed will test positive for salmonella. It is natural for them. Exactly. It's a part of their natural gut flora. Think - how does it get in raw meat? Contamination from the GI tract of the animal the meat came from. But human grade meat is obsessively washed and cleaned before packaging, sometimes in not the greatest ways (chemical rinse followed by stuff to wash the chemicals off) BUT you know it has been cleaned and the bacteria load reduced. Can't say that at all for unregulated animal grade meat. Anyways, it lives naturally in their gut - the problem comes when it (or ANY bug) overgrows or a foreign pathogenic strain comes in and hooks on.
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Jun 5, 2016 14:49:57 GMT -5
I missed talking to Dr Pate until Monday but have been doing some research of the diets zoos feed. Most of the venders listed on the Association of Zoos and Aquariums are selling horse meat. shudders. I know exactly where that is sourced and it isn't healthy farm raised animals. There is are long list of recalls from their vendors. Many are the same vendors the public uses. There are the usual raw feeding warnings. I found the site for zoo nutritional recommendations. Their ferret diet is criminal. The feeding guide was published in 2010: Mustela putorius furo Domestic Ferret Institution F IAMS regular dry cat food Banana with peel Vegetables – Institution H Hills Science Diet Light Adult Cat Food Institution I Mazuri Ferret Diet Institution J PMI Premium 22 Dog Food Old Mother Hubbard Canned Cat Food Fruit Institution K IAMS weight control cat dry Yogurt, low Vegetables, frozen mixed Eukanuba reduced calorie dog dry Banana Apple Grape Institution A Hills Science Diet Maintenance Vegetables, frozen mixed Fruit rotated used apple Cottage cheese Yogurt Institution B Hills Science Canine Light dry Vegetables used carrot Fruit used apple Salmon Oil Institution L Nebraska Brand-horse meat Here is the link to the full guide nagonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/MustelidCareManual2010-NAG-EDIT.pdfI'm still going to talk to our zoos nutritionist for my own curiosity. I may come out disgusted or with a new source for meats.
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Post by katt on Jun 5, 2016 14:52:59 GMT -5
That is sickening....
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Jun 5, 2016 15:06:07 GMT -5
It is pretty obvious from reading the nutritional site and the association site that there is no high standards/requirements for zoo meats.
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Post by Heather on Jun 5, 2016 21:19:32 GMT -5
That's disgusting These people are responsible for the diet of zoo animals? Do they not research anything? This isn't even a decent diet for a chimpanzee much less for a ferret ciao
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Post by Sherry on Jun 6, 2016 10:05:30 GMT -5
And that is what the vet is insisting you follow??? Seriously???
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Post by Jeremy's Boggle on Jun 6, 2016 10:27:09 GMT -5
And that is what the vet is insisting you follow??? Seriously??? She really just wants me to feed kibble or freeze dried.She is convinced that somehow the meats sold to zoos is a better quality and free from salmonella. All other sources are contaminated. I suppose it was her way of countering the argument that zoos feed raw all of the time. I was just shocked that this is what zoos are feeding their weasels.
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Post by katt on Jun 6, 2016 20:54:01 GMT -5
I wonder what the Alaskan Zoo feeds their animals on a regular basis... :/ I know that come summer time everyone always donates their old/freezer burned salmon and halibut from the summer before to clear out freezer space for fresh fish. The fish gets fed to the bears, wolves, and eagles I know for sure, I'm sure it goes to others too. ^ So is home caught fish a "salmonella-free" source? The zoo feeds it....I bet it's full of salmon-ella... (get it get it?) :heehee: Also she said zoo meat or whole prey, how does she feel about the intact GI tract...?
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