Loose poops and minced diet

[Deleted]

I acquired 2 stray hobs last year, both about 2 years of age and obviously I have no idea of their lives or diet before I got them. I fed them over the summer a raw minced diet commercially prepared for dogs and cats including bones and organs - it's a chunky mince. They would have a bowl in the morning and one in the evening, but also free access to a good quality kibble - on the odd occasion I'd miss a morning meat feed. They generally eat a variety all raw minced with bone such as chicken, chicken and wild rabbit with organs, chicken and chicken liver, chicken and trout, chicken and cod etc. They've done really well on this diet.

Over winter here in the UK, their activity level is much lower (they live outside), so I didn't want to overfeed them and have generally left out the morning meat meal. With the mince, they eat and then sleep it off and don't move about afterwards. What I have been noticing is that their poop looks a bit looser than what I'm used to seeing (loose, but not diahorrea) and sometimes also rather than dark chocolate brown it's a much lighter tan brown colour. They don't appear ill, if I did I'd take them to the vet.

Could this change be due to feeding more kibble along with the raw food? Recently also I have mixed their normal brand of raw mince for a different and perhaps less good quality raw mince which is much finer in consistency. Any thoughts appreciated.

[Deleted]

They'll be sleeping more in the winter which is normal, the change to a cheaper mince could be cause for loose poops and kibble will be the cause of the lighter colour but they shouldn't have diarrhoea so a trip to the vet might be worth while for just I case they are ill and they're just hiding the fact which is what a lot of ferrets do, if they're not ill then treat for parasites (some internal parasites can cause diarrhoea) because that could be the cause. The mix of kibble and raw could also be the cause which is why not many people feed their ferrets a B.A.R.F diet.

[Deleted]

Because raw and kibble digest at different rates, it has been suggested to serve the two----- hours apart. so if you have to feed kibble, make it either supper or morning meal. (can cause tummy upset)

Feed ferret the best food that you can afford for your budget. The newer mince, may not have as much bone as other. So more muscle, looser stools.

color of stools is determined by what is eaten ( that is, if ferret is not sick)

I would not treat my ferret for parasites unless vet said it had them. (unecessary chemical exposure)

[Deleted]

Good Morning!

Loose poops usually mean they need more bone in their diet. If you are feeding mince then it might need a higher bone concentration. What brand are you feeding?
If you'll tell us what brand it is then we can get someone in the UK to let you know if it's a good quality mince.

Ferrets need Taurine in their diet so check the ingredients. If the mince is for both dogs and cats then it might not have enough Taurine and Taurine is essential for ferrets.
Taurine can be supplemented with a Taurine powder.

We don't advise feeding dry kibble along with wet food. Abbey explained there is a different digestion rate and it's thought the because of this that can cause upset tummies and possibly lead to a bacterial overgrowth.

I'll link the poop chart. You'll see that kibble makes for bigger poops because of the filler that is used in it. That filler can't be digested and so they eliminate the pure waste and you have bigger smellier poops.

holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2469

A raw mince is safely left out for at least 8 hours possibly 12 in this cooler weather.
Why don't you ditch the kibble and leave out plates of the mince and then pick the breakfast plate up at night and the dinner plate up in the morning.

I wouldn't worry about overfeeding them. Most ferrets will stop eating when they are full. If the plate is empty then they could eat more.
A grown male will eat 3-4 ounces in one day and a grown female will eat 2-3 ounces.
Babies/kits simply eat alot and they need to while they are growing.

The overweight ferrets we do see often eat mince and since it's so easy to eat then it is possible to get a chubby ferret on mince. Why don't you post some pictures and we'll take a look at them.
How many ferrets do you have and how old are they? How many are male and how many are female?

[Deleted]

Thanks for the replies so far. After reading the replies my feeling, ruling out any bacterial infection, which I don't see why they should have as I keep their meat very hygenic, is that perhaps it's perhaps a combination of feeding more kibble along with raw, as well as feeding a very fine mince instead of their normal mince.

In an ideal world I know they should be fed carcass, but I don't have the availablity or storage/freezer space for it. So this is my compromise and as I don't know if the minces contain everything they need, I keep good quality kibble available for them. Generally, they don't eat too much kibble if they're fed 2 meat meals a day. My exotics vet has seen them and is really pleased at how well they look compared to when I first got them. She's declared they're not fat, just big.

The normal minces they eat are from the link below, and the quality is excellent imho. They are roughly minced and I do have to take out some larger bits of bone as they can be too big for the ferrets to chew and can be a bit sharp.

www.nurturingbynature.co.uk/barf_natural_raw_dog_food_bournemouth_s/1814.htm

The other mince I've been using is because I ran out over Xmas of the other stuff. It seemed ok, so I bought more:

www.naturesmenu.co.uk/category-raw-meals.aspx - scroll down to Just Minces

The mince is very fine and doesn't really require them to chew much, and actually it has just occured to me that it might not contain organs etc.

I currently have an old girl of 8 and she will stop when full, but the 2 stray boys will if given a choice eat so much as to burst! They are real guzzlers!!!  I have kept ferrets for about 15 years, but always learning about what's best to feed them. Here's some vid of them.

[Deleted]

The videos are adorable and they look healthy.
If you'll allow me one suggestion. I would get a bigger plate so they both can easily reach the food.
That might slow them down a bit but they don't look overweight at all.

Also, are you including one red meat meal mince? Red meat is high in Iron and Vitamin B.
Their menu should not be too chicken heavy since that is a common allergy/intolerance in ferrets.

I saw alot of different varieties available in the both minces and ideally they should have at least 3 different proteins to ensure they get the different nutrients/vitamins that are offered from different animals.

Organs are important but you don't want too much liver. Liver is full of Vitamin A and is fat soluable. It remains in their system so only five percent of their weekly intake should be liver.

Heart and Tongue is where the Taurine is found in it's highest concentration. Forgive me if I offer information that you already know but I just don't know what you do know.
Taurine is found in the tissues of muscles that move so Heart and or Tongue should be on the ingredient list or at least a Taurine supplement should be listed.

You can pick up some human grade bonemeal powder and add that to the mince. The NOW brand is good and so is KAL but I don't know what is available where you are. You would want 100 percent bonemeal powder with no added sweeteners.
Try mixing in about a half teaspoon for 8 ounces of meat and see if that firms up their poops.

[Sherry]

Personally I would ditch the kibble entirely As for eating less in the winter, their appetite actually INCREASES by a good deal, so odds of consuming more of the kibble to make up for what they were lacking by decreasing the raw would cause the loose stools.
Instead I would put the raw back up to what it was, and quite likely offer even more.

[Deleted]

Thanks for you suggestions - I'll certainly take what you're saying onboard.

Their diet is very chicken heavy. All the minces from Nurturing by Nature are based in chicken. Generally my ferrets are fed on minced chicken alternating with minced chicken with rabbit and organs. Then in between occasionally I'll add other versions such as chicken and fish, chicken and liver, chicken and heart. I have tried them in the past with beef and ox heart, chicken and beef mix but they don't like the stronger flavour. I can certainly try them again. This company is very good, but they don't always have all flavours available so when I reorder sometimes I just have to take what's available. Heart is easily available in the supermarket so I can add more of that in. They do LOVE liver but I do know not to give them too much. To make it cost effective I have to buy in bulk of 25 tubs so it does take a little while to get through.

I have looked at other companies in the UK, and that did seem to be the best in terms of price, availability and quality.

I could feed them with separate bowls, but Lewey the albino is a fast, greedy scoffer and once he's eaten his, will muscle in on Barley's, so in the end I just fed them in one bowl!!!

I will go back to their 2 meat meals a day and see if that improves things. Also if wasn't that I thought they were eating less, just moving less!!! 

[Deleted]

@angel17 I like how Lewey wags his tail in the nine, nearly ten years that I've had ferrets I've only seen it happen twice with mine, my first ferret Florence wagged her tail at cats if she saw them and Vinnie wags sometimes when he's grooming his tail.

[Deleted]

It's Winter here and we are all moving less. (giggle)

Since chicken is a common allergy/intolerance, why don't you try no chicken for a few days and see if you notice a difference in their poops.
Since most of the minces seem to include chicken then that makes me wonder if IBD could play a factor.
I'll tag bitbyter who has a little girl with a severe chicken intolerance.

I'll also link a thread on IBD:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17731/protein-trial-elimination-diet-ferrets

The reason that I mentioned using a bigger plate or bowl was because I thought your bowl looked rather small and wondered if perhaps Barley was hesitant to share so Lewey was getting in there faster and eating more. That might make Barley anxious.

I've noticed that ferrets often prefer a plate. A bowl can cut off their line of sight and that can make an animal vulnerable while eating. This instinct is still applicable even in our domesticated ferrets.

Some prefer to eat alone and some are more polite when eating.
Just a small suggestion that I hope you don't mind my making.

Oh and a tail wagger, how adorable.

:wave3:

[Sherry]

I love tail waggers! I find they tend to do this more often when younger, but even my oldsters will do it when playing at "king of the tubes" lol

[Deleted]

Ha, ha, not only do Barley and Lewey both wag their tails - they get super excited chasing each other down tubes, but Barley is the loudest chuckler I've ever had. When playing he constantly chuckles and sounds like a mini machine gun going off!!! They came to me separately and now they're the most bonded ferrets I've ever had. I didn't chose them, they literally turned up on my door and I took them in, but sometimes God/Universe gives you a special gift. (sniff) (twitch)



Regarding their diet/poop issue: I can certainly try feeding them separately again and see if it makes them more comfortable eating. I've decided to go back to 2 meat meals a day and see if that improves matters. They were super excited to get a meaty breakfast this morning and after digesting for a bit went nuts running all over my house!

I'm also going to vary the type of meat they get including more heart and red meat (I'll have to get them used to the flavour). I can't really stop feeding them chicken completely otherwise my guys will have no meat. But I hear what you're saying about IBD - I have had ferrets in the past with sensitive digestion/IBD. I'm hoping by cutting out/down on the kibble things will settle and/or improve. The problem with stray ferrets is that you have no idea what they've eaten previous to me getting them and often if they've been scavenging then they could have eaten stuff that has damaged their digestion. Barley in fact was very thin when we received him and had obviously been surviving on vegetation as he has a weird penchant for not just trying to steal our fruit and veg, but actually eating it given half the chance.

Thanks for all the support and I'll let you know how I get on in due course.