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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 19:50:34 GMT -5
Here's my menu: Monday AM: Chicken Wing PM: Rabbit/Pork Tongue(Depending on consistency of poop; too runny=more bone, white=more muscle) Tuesday AM: Rabbit(Bone-in) PM: Chicken GizzardWednesday AM: Chicken Wing PM: Chicken HeartThursday AM: Rabbit(Bone-in) PM: Chicken Wing/ Chicken Gizzard(Again, depending on poop) Friday AM: Chicken Wing PM: 1/2Chicken Heart 1/4 Pork Liver 1/4 beef kidneySaturday AM: Rabbit(Bone-in) PM: Pork Tongue
Sunday AM: Chicken Wing PM: 1/2 Pork Liver 1/2 beef kidneyYou have 8 Bone in meals, 6 Muscle meats and 2 organ meals. Its very chicken heavy, but its okay for now since you just started your switch. One thing that concerns me is the organs are too close together, try spacing those out a bit, example one at the start of the week (tuesday) and the other at the end of the week (friday). Try to cut back on the muscle meats since 6 is alot. You want around 3-4 muscle meals and 1.5 of that needs to be heart. You have about 3 other proteins that aren't chicken. Thats good. Gizzards are also very great for building jaw strength. I love how you got that into their plan.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 21:03:42 GMT -5
Here's my menu: Monday AM: Chicken Wing PM: Rabbit/Pork Tongue(Depending on consistency of poop; too runny=more bone, white=more muscle) Tuesday AM: Rabbit(Bone-in) PM: Chicken GizzardWednesday AM: Chicken Wing PM: Chicken HeartThursday AM: Rabbit(Bone-in) PM: Chicken Wing/ Chicken Gizzard(Again, depending on poop) Friday AM: Chicken Wing PM: 1/2Chicken Heart 1/4 Pork Liver 1/4 beef kidneySaturday AM: Rabbit(Bone-in) PM: Pork Tongue
Sunday AM: Chicken Wing PM: 1/2 Pork Liver 1/2 beef kidneyYou have 8 Bone in meals, 6 Muscle meats and 2 organ meals. Its very chicken heavy, but its okay for now since you just started your switch. One thing that concerns me is the organs are too close together, try spacing those out a bit, example one at the start of the week (tuesday) and the other at the end of the week (friday). Try to cut back on the muscle meats since 6 is alot. You want around 3-4 muscle meals and 1.5 of that needs to be heart. You have about 3 other proteins that aren't chicken. Thats good. Gizzards are also very great for building jaw strength. I love how you got that into their plan. Thanks I will make those necessary adjustments. Monday's Rabbit was supposed to say bone-in. The meals on Monday and Thursday, I meant either one or the other (bone-in rabbit or pork tongue). I have found a potential source for fresh rabbit, and a second source for heart! Yay! I made soupie today. Killed my blender in the process. I hope to start getting them onto soupie this weekend. I gave the boys egg this week. The first time neither one ate very much, but I can see that Bruce is going to be the more difficult one. Spaghetti is quite willing to try what I put in front of him. I think it's because we recently introduced him to the canned food the vet suggested. Spaghetti ate half the egg yesterday, straight from the bowl. Bruce had a tsp. I will be meeting with my vet tomorrow, and I hope we can come to an understanding, at the least. However, if not, it will not deter me from switching my boys to a raw diet. I know it's what's best for them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 21:33:23 GMT -5
Fantastic! I would be more than happy to help you out with your plan if you need someone to look it over again. I remember when I first made one and it needed adjusting as well. I actually changed my entire plan many times since I finished transitioning just to make it suit what I have available or could get. It's wonderful that you found a potential source for fresh rabbit and a second source for heart~ It's so exciting when you uncover new sources. It really does make things so much easier for us and our little hungry carnivores hehehe. RIP Blender I too, killed my blender quite recently. I'm considering in getting two, just to be on the safe side HAHA. I like to puree the organ meals, that way I know they all eat the organs equally rather than pick favourites. I really think that the soup stage is the most fun stage out of transitioning. My mentor recommended that I pick up some baby spoons and I got some wonderful little coloured ones. They may likely to be alittle stubborn with the soupie at first. My girl Haru looked once and tried to run off but my Boy needed less encouragement. A good tip would be to put some soupie on their gums just so they get a taste first hand. Remember to give alot of verbal encouragement, especially when they lick some or eat some. How do you serve your egg? I like to mix the whites up with the yolk first. Thats how my three like it best. I used to give them 1 egg between Haru and Yuki because they had a little and became filled up quite fast. They can have a single egg each, once per week or two in shedding seasons. Hehe Haru was my Bruce and Yuki was my Spaghetti. I think it will be great for you. If Bruce is going to be the difficult one, you'll have to work harder and be just as stubborn as him. The difficult ones make things frustrating, but when you think about it they give you alot of bonding time~ Good luck with your Vet appointment tomorrow! Remember that they're only saying what they say for sake of the animal and pet owner in mind. If they don't like the thought of raw, just explain to them that you came to the decision that this is best for them and you are doing all your research so theres nothing to be worried about. I think the main concern they have with raw, is the fact that some people aren't experienced or not knowledgable on it and obviously if that were the case then there would be alot of health problems for the animal. You're doing a great job and are learning all you can for your lovely two.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 20:50:58 GMT -5
The spoons is a great idea! I will have to pick some up tomorrow.
I whisked the egg together. Once they eat it more freely, I might just give them the yolk.
I am confident I can be more stubborn than Bruce. I have practice dealing with stubborn animals with my horse haha
My vet appointment went well yesterday. She was happy with how well Spaghetti is dealing with the insulinoma, and feels like if we start messing with his dosage of Pred, we risk him crashing, so we're leaving that alone. She confirmed my suspicions that he's blind though. I brought up the concern of lack of taurine from the canned food I've been supplementing him with(which was prescribed by them). She said she doesn't think that's the cause of his loss of sight because his heart sounded fine, so she doesn't suspect Cardiomyopathy(Spelling?). Anyways, once I told her that switching to a raw diet is something I'm doing because it's what I feel is best for my boys, she took a look at the menu(which I had printed for her, from the forum) and said that she liked the variety in the menu, with the heart and liver. Her concern was the risk of possible transfer of disease from the ferrets to us. I told her that I think that's less of a risk than for them to develop disease if they were to stay on a high carbohydrate diet. She printed off a study of the risk of bacteria, and she made copies of some of the articles I brought with me, as well as the menu. I'm glad that vet is back from maternity leave. We came to an understanding I think, and I'm looking forward to showing off how healthy the boys will be on their new diet
Speaking of which, I will be starting with soupies tomorrow. Is it okay to start off trying once a day, or should I offer it to them at the times that I will actually be feeding them?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 21:13:58 GMT -5
The entire egg is much better in my opinion. It's also safe to give them an entire egg. I noticed so many people were claiming it triggered some illness or what ever other thing, but after reading up on threads here I've learnt a more accurate answer. Just incase you would like to read the thread- if you haven't already- I'll post here below here. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/3811/raw-eggs-safeI'm happy to hear that you'll be more stubborn with Bruce. Hehe. We kind of have to be with ferrets, but its all with the best results in mind. I used to work with Thoroughbreds and Standardbred race horses, and I've seen all kinds of stubborn- I really must say that I'm sure that experience indeed prepared me in time for when I got my ferrets. If you're lucky enough, Bruce may possibly just need alittle nudge nudge and encouragement, then the rest comes easy. But I guess you'll still need to be juuuust alittle bit more stubborn than he. Yay! That's fantastic that the Vet Appointment went well! It sounds like she's a very good vet for sure. Taurine can indeed cause blindness if its not balanced in the diet. However, I'm certain that the lack of Taurine would have to go on for a long period of time before it begins to effect the sight. It would probably be even worse for very young kits that are still growing and lack taurine so it really would sound inevitable if they were to go blind due to lack of taurine. I'm really happy that you're telling the vet your concerns and were up front by telling her that you're confident with doing a raw diet. Printing out and showing her the menu is also a smart decision. You're a very responsible ferrent. Honestly, As long as you do the right thing by cleaning up thoroughly, you shouldn't have any worry regarding transfer of diseases from Ferret to Human. My mentor got me to read an article on Bacteria and I think I will share it with you for sure. I also want to mention that Salmonella takes around 12-72 hours in a human to symptoms to start showing. So since ferrets have a short digestive tack, its not a problem for them. There obviously would be risks for us with dealing with food that is possibly infected with it, however, as long as we clean up and wash hands etc, then we'll be fine. Sorry for that long article. But its super awesome and I had to share it! You can give them soupie twice a day. Are they currently eating anything else? If thats the case, you could try them with the soupie starting once a day, then increase it to two times a day and minus anything else. I gave the soupie for morning and at night. I also did spoon feeding inbetween. It helps with bonding time as well, so its a good idea if you would like to try that as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:46:25 GMT -5
I have not updated this in a couple of days because it's been pretty crazy around here. Sunday i gave both Spaghetti and Bruce some soup. They ate 0.7oz combined from my finger. I added a bit of Salmon Oil because they were really not interested at first. At 4:30pm i found Spaghetti with a prolapsed rectum. Took him to my horse's vet, because i have their number on speed dial, and their regular vet didn't have their emergency number on their voicemail. By the time we got there, the prolapse had retracted. His poops got progressively more dark and runny. Monday afternoon, when i got home from work, Spaghetti pooped mainly mucous and prolapsed again. Took him to the vet immediately. Again it had retracted by the time we got there(their actual vet this time). Sent home with meds to treat diarrhea(Metronidazole), as well as dextrose for prolapses. I returned with a fecal sample, and was called later with the results. He has only the parasite cocci present in his feces. And a lot of it. Adding a second medication(Enrofloxacin) to be given given with first one, to be picked up Tuesday. He weighed 1.18kg at vet's. Giving him the Metronidazole was a struggle. Skipped giving Bruce soupies. Tuesday Spaghetti had not improved in the morning, had a more substantial poop during the day, but continued to have small, dark, runny poops and prolapsing during the evening. Giving the medications is getting harder. He clearly hates the Metronidazole Bruce had 1oz soupies from my finger. Again added salmon oil. His weight is now 1.43kg Wednesday still no improvement in consistency of Spaghetti's poops. Now it's even a struggle to give Spaghetti his Prednisolone. Sent vet an e-mail requesting another medication to substitute the Metronidazole because i'm worried about the stress leading to ulcers, especially since he's predisposed to getting them, being on Pred. Poncesmom pointed out ingredients in the canned food the vets prescribed, so i forwarded that as well as suggesting he be given Carnivore Care instead to supplement his diet. Regular vet isn't in today, but they forwarded my e-mail to her on my request. I don't think this should wait. I am waiting to hear back.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:43:18 GMT -5
Good morning! (well for me that is-probably) Spaghetti and Bruce seem to be doing well regarding their raw switch, Using the salmon oil as bait is a very good idea. Bruce is a good wait as well. Poor Spaghetti. I was doing some research on prolapsed rectum and it really doesn't sound to be such a pleasant thing. You must be feeling quite distressed to see him go through all this.;A; It's also fantastic that you have a vet on speed dial, even if its a horse vet. If it was to become an emergency, then you would be very prepared. Does your regular vet have an emergency number at all? Maybe you should request an emergency contact just in case. Spaghetti is having such a bad time. My heart aches reading this. Poor little one. [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/T_T.png" src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .png" style="max-width:100%;"] When you say Cocci, do you mean Coccidia? I wasn't familiar with this so I did some research and found we also have a thread on the forum on it. I wonder if any other mentors would have a good input on this as well so I might tag some. ;u; @poncesmom Sherry Heatherholisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/3058/coccidiaYou're such a great ferrent for considering the fact that stress could lead to ulcers. I'm very happy to hear that you're making your vet aware on that. Spaghetti is having a hard time as at is, and an ulcer wouldn't be good. ;A; I do hope Spaghetti feels & gets better soon.
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Post by Sherry on Oct 7, 2015 18:21:47 GMT -5
If his diarrhea is caused by coccidia, he needs an antiparasitical, not an antibiotic.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 13:53:39 GMT -5
I have put Bruce's transition on hold for the time being, as grtting Spaghetti back in decent health has been our main priority. Spaghetti went for an ultrasound Thursday afternoon. The vet found one of his adrenal glands to be enlarged, as well as a dark spot on his pancreas. So he also has adrenal disease and maybe pancreatitis. Spaghetti spent that evening, and the next day at the clinic on IV, and some more medications. He came home Friday night, and has been home all weekend. He's currently on Metronidazole, buprenorphine, Baytril, Sulcrate, famotidine, prednisolone and had his first lupron injection. I have stopped giving hin the canned hill's a/d urgent care, and he's now getting carnivore care instead. I will be bringing him back for a recheck tomorrow, and talking to her about an antiparastic. I really question why she didn't put him on one if she found so much cocci parasites in his stool... Machan, I was never specifically told coccidia, just that he only had the one kind of parasite in his stool. His stool still isn't great, but it's better most of the time. I'm finding that overnight and in the morning, he has mucousy pooo, but during the day it's more formed. Although this afternoon he's pooping very frequently. Over all, he seems to be feeling much better. Hopefully he continues to improve.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2015 8:22:12 GMT -5
@nikkita969 I just saw your FB post on Spaghetti. Poor little guy had it tough for a while now. How is Bruce?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 10:45:05 GMT -5
@nikkita969 I just saw your FB post on Spaghetti. Poor little guy had it tough for a while now. How is Bruce? I think Bruce will be okay. With everything Spaghetti went through this year, I think he got used to relying on us for playtime. Still keeping a close eye on him though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 10:53:15 GMT -5
Give Bruce a big hug from me and one for you also. I know this is a difficult time. I just an so sorry about Spaghetti.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 20:43:02 GMT -5
Give Bruce a big hug from me and one for you also. I know this is a difficult time. I just an so sorry about Spaghetti. Thanks. I'm still having a real hard time with this one. He was very special to me and I miss him horribly. I think Bruce is doing mostly okay. His appetite has decreased slightly in the past couple of days, and has lost a bit of weight. He can stand to lose a bit, so i'm not worried unless he continues to lose weight. I'll be keeping a close eye on that. He's now 1.29kg, down from 1.36kg eleven days ago. I am picking back up Bruce's transition. I started today by trying egg with him. I did the 'grab and dab' for about an hour. Each time he took some egg off my finger a few times without me holding onto him. I didn't stop him when he decided he had had enough. He decided he was going to go sleep in the dig box(which currently has bedding in it). I opened the top and decided to offer some egg from a spoon while he was in the box. He took it from the spoon right away, so I did that until he had eaten half of the egg. I think i will make egg days Thursdays and Sundays for the time being. I will start back with soupies tomorrow. I have the weekend off, so besides respite Saturday morning, and a horse club get together Sunday, I'm all Bruce's
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2015 20:22:49 GMT -5
I gave Bruce some soupie today. It took about a half hour for him to eat 1/2 oz without pushing him too much. He took it great from my finger, but wasn't interested in taking it from the plate or a spoon. My intention was to give him the other 1/2 oz the next time he woke up, but whrn i went to prepare it, i made it waaaaay too runny, and since he isn't taking it from the spoon or plate, i tossed it. Will try again tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2015 17:49:13 GMT -5
I gave Bruce 1oz of soupie today. I added salmon oil to it, and he took it from my finger right away. I slowly led him over to the plate, and he started eating straight from the plate. It was short lived, and i think it just because of the salmon oil. So we did the grab and dab for a while. He started by taking a few finger fulls, and then took less and less. He decided he was going to bed in his dig box again, so i opened it up and offered him some on a spoon. He ate the entire spoonfull we repeated that process until then entire ounce was eaten. Yay Bruce! I think i'll continue with one ounce at a time until he's more used to it. Tomorrow i'll feed him 1oz in the morning, and another ounce in the evening. Should I be waiting to take his kibble away between feeding soupies until he's more willing to eat the soupies on his own?
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