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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 6:15:32 GMT -5
Good Afternoon :beer:
I just wrote a long involved post and then lost it. Take my word for it, I was brilliant. Oh my gosh! I hate when that happens! ;A; I love rain also. Let's just get it all gone before my vacation. Speaking of which, I will be on Vacation starting next Friday, the 14th. We return on Monday, the 24th. I can leave you with a plan and ask a mentor to watch over you. Or, you could try going it on your own. That reinforces what we already know and can point out things we aren't sure of or don't know.
Oh yay! Have fun on your vacation! (sounds so funny, we call those holidays here.) Thats not a problem. I'm going to start a simple meal plan to start off with next Wednesday. So far I've been crushing up the necks (with great difficulty. They can be so stubborn sometimes!) and Haru has been eating those! They had chicken slivers this morning, and Crushed necks tonight. (Yuki's currently out free roaming and is really tickling my feet with his whiskers right now. ;A;) I also gave them another pinky and a fuzzy each since they're such sweeties >3< Ah... Yuki's now playing with my hair. Was, and now he's scuttling backwards trying to play with me. (and now off down the hall.) oh my he's a funny ferret. >3< I think I'll also still come here everyday and use it like an open diary, so you can check it over when you return from your holiday~ ^u^ Have a fun holiday! (are you taking your ferrets?) You decide and let me know. If you choose to go it alone, you can still ask the Mentors for help, if a problem arises.I'm happy with doing that. If I have any questions there's always someone here to get back to me while you're away~^^ Take the shell of first. They'll probably love it and then your room mate will wonder why the shrimp keeps disappearing.
What shrimp~? I'll try them again, but I'm pretty sure they won't like them. They are good with new foods but I think they have already made up their minds on this one.What's the nutritional benefits for frogs legs? Awww...a tiny little head on your lap. I bet that's something you never expected to see.I'm so glad they liked their pinkie treats.They did especially well with their first pinkie and mini mouse.I was sitting there and had to hold Haru a few times since her automatic thing is "Oh yummy, Stash Stash Stash~" But I was like "Ohohoho~ No you don't, you must finish your treat right here~" After a few struggles she gave up and just sat in my lap eating away. I noticed once they start eating, I don't have to hold them and they just stay occupied right there I was quite happy with them~~ Haru seems to really love them. Same with Yuki. I'll have to get more. I didn't even have to cut them or put oil in the little abdomen (yay) ^^ Yesterday we talked about Organs. Today let's talk about Taurine and why it's essential and why freezing doesn't degrade the Taurine.
Great! ^^ Deficiencies in certain amino acids can cause serious problems. Taurine is required for normal heart muscle and eye function. A diet that does not have enough taurine can cause the heart to stretch and enlarge (dilated cardiomyopathy). This can lead to congestive heart failure and death. In the eye, a low taurine diet can cause blindness from central retinal degeneration. Taurine is present in higher dosages, in Hearts and Tongue.Taurine is a beta amino acid that is generally found in the bile and muscle tissues of mammals, including ferrets. It is found in the highest concentrations in excitable tissues, such as those found in the heart, retina, central nervous system and skeletal muscles. It is synthesized in the liver from the dietary sulfur-containing amino acids named methionine and cysteine. In some countries, such as Australia, some working ferrets are fed homemade diets with rabbit, lamb and kangaroo meat as the main ingredients. We're not picking on Australia, just those ferrents who only feed one protein like rabbit, that does not offer enough Taurine.Rabbit, lamb and kangaroo meat can have a low taurine content, so a Taurine supplement might be required to prevent taurine deficiency problems. 500 mg per ferret per day.
Thats understandable. I probably mentioned earlier, but the butcher at our supermarket told me he had working ferrets and was feeding them things like fruit/veg yogurt and milk. I think it just depends on the person and their over all knowledge. Some people are very ignorant and really shouldn't have animals if they won't even go and do their proper research/study. Freezing Taurine:
So it has long been passed around that freezing and thawing degrades the taurine content of meat. This is actually a big misconception. HEAT does indeed degrade taurine (cooking), FREEZING however does NOT. Below are two studies to support this statement.
"Taurine has been shown to be very stable at high temperatures(18), and it is not affected by freeze–thaw cycles(19). Consistent with these observations, our data indicate that although the samples used in our study were frozen for almost 20 years, levels of serum taurine were similar to the values reported in the literature using samples stored for a shorter time." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3128499/
Thats great, It makes it easier to keep meats for longer as well. If freezing degraded Taurine, we would have to use supplements or get new meats everyday or every second day etc ;A; Page 3 of this study:
biocor.umn.edu/assets/files/ANALYTE%20STABILITY%20&%20FREEZE-THAW%20INFORMATION-1.pdf
"Taurine is not affected by freeze–thaw cycle"
Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/13653/taurine-degrade-when-frozen#ixzz3iANWRKlF
That's enough info for today. Hint...there will be questions about Taurine in your final exam.
Thats alot of helpful information ;u; I'll study it thoroughly! >3< I never knew about the dilated cardiomyopathy. I'm always learning new things everyday haha!
Ah! I noticed Haru's Coat is darkening in colour. It's so interesting, she was getting lighter when I first noticed changes in her coat, but now her guard hairs are darkening. It's the last month for winter as well. I might do another dangly photo and show you later ^u^
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 9:33:09 GMT -5
Frog legs are a lean meal, high in protein, at 16g per serving, with only 0.3g of fat, says Lawrence. It’s also a rich source of omega-3 fatty acids, potassium and vitamin A. Since it is low in fat and contains Vitamin A, I would not include it in a weekly meal, just as an additional protein, every so often. They are surprisingly expensive. I was sitting there and had to hold Haru a few times since her automatic thing is "Oh yummy, Stash Stash Stash~" But I was like "Ohohoho~ No you don't, you must finish your treat right here~" After a few struggles she gave up and just sat in my lap eating away. I noticed once they start eating, I don't have to hold them and they just stay occupied right there I was quite happy with them~~ Haru seems to really love them. Same with Yuki. I'll have to get more. I didn't even have to cut them or put oil in the little abdomen (yay) ^^
They just seem to eat whatever you put in front of them. That is so great! It's also quite a compliment to you. They trust you. Thats understandable. I probably mentioned earlier, but the butcher at our supermarket told me he had working ferrets and was feeding them things like fruit/veg yogurt and milk. I think it just depends on the person and their over all knowledge. Some people are very ignorant and really shouldn't have animals if they won't even go and do their proper research/study.
That's old school thinking. We know better now. Some breeders will use kitten replacement milk to help the new mom and give them adequate calcium, but the rest of us should not do that. Working ferrets fascinate me. Did you know that they used Ferrets to lay the cable for the TV coverage Of Princess Diana and Prince Charles wedding? Thats great, It makes it easier to keep meats for longer as well. If freezing degraded Taurine, we would have to use supplements or get new meats everyday or every second day etc ;A;
That's right. Heat does degrade Taurine. I buy Freeze dried Hearts for treats. Since Taurine is water soluable, they can easily have hearts for treats. Ah! I noticed Haru's Coat is darkening in colour. It's so interesting, she was getting lighter when I first noticed changes in her coat, but now her guard hairs are darkening. It's the last month for winter as well. I might do another dangly photo and show you later ^u^
I was going to ask you for weights and dangling pictures. I am seeing changes in appetites now. Everyone is eating more as we get close to our winter. Roamy still has his full mask. Juliet seems to have her seasons backwards, I can quite tell. She is whippet thin, but almost all white with just a touch of silver on her tail, and has stayed that way. Okay, Just for fun (Ha!) would you please tell me how many organ meals and Heart meals, they receive in a week. I don't need all organs just an example of what you could use. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 11:55:11 GMT -5
Frog legs are a lean meal, high in protein, at 16g per serving, with only 0.3g of fat, says Lawrence. It’s also a rich source of omega-3 fatty acids, potassium and vitamin A. Since it is low in fat and contains Vitamin A, I would not include it in a weekly meal, just as an additional protein, every so often. They are surprisingly expensive.Wow. Thats interesting. I've never seen any frog's legs around. The first thing I thought was possibly french or cantonese cuisine. It sounds something maybe you would give as a treat. How expensive is it? They just seem to eat whatever you put in front of them. That is so great!It's also quite a compliment to you. They trust you.Its not always as easy as you made it sound though! Sometimes, they would rather play first and eat before bed. I'm totally cool with that though~ I think they do trust me since I haven't had any bad nips or bites. I can now play with them using my hands without worrying about a huge CHOMP Yuki gets alittle rough sometimes but I say "AH! Not hard!" he gets the point and calms down which is very good. Play longer and less need for time outs. That's what we both want~>3< That's old school thinking. We know better now. Some breeders will use kitten replacement milk to help the new mom and give them adequate calcium, but the rest of us should not do that.Oh wow. I never knew that. Wouldn't there be alternatives though, or is it okay since its temporary? Working ferrets fascinate me. Did you know that they used Ferrets to lay the cable for the TV coverageOf Princess Diana and Prince Charles wedding?Yes! I heard of that! Its so smart~ You never would have known if no one mentioned it. haha! That's right. Heat does degrade Taurine. I buy Freeze dried Hearts for treats. Since Taurine is water soluable, they can easily have hearts for treats.
I recently made my own freeze dried treats using left over chicken thigh. It took about a week for them to dry out. >3< I never heard of Hearts being freeze dried. I probably wouldn't be able to find any of those. Oh but I never know. Oh Since Taurine cannot be degraded from being frozen/thawed, does it stay in the meat if the meat is freeze dried? Thats intriguing. I was going to ask you for weights and dangling pictures.I am seeing changes in appetites now. Everyone is eating more as we get close to our winter.Roamy still has his full mask. Juliet seems to have her seasons backwards, I can quite tell. She is whippet thin, but almost all white with just a touch of silver on her tail, and has stayed that way.Tomorrow is monday, So I'll weigh them tomorrow and get some more dangling photos! ^^ Haru is really eating more, maybe she's more open to trying the meats now. I have noticed they both won't touch the chicken wing if its full, same with necks so I'll just chop them up. They seem more happy to eat them when its in chunks or smaller sizes. I think it could also be because the flesh is more out of the skin and its more enticing to them like that. I don't mind doing that for them every time they need bone in meats. ^u^ Oh wow, Juliet has backward seasons? I heard some Marshall ferrets do that since they breed all year round? Yuki seems to becoming more, whippet in size now. I was going to say 'thinner' but he's still quite bulky and is a great weight. I think Maybe he's losing his baby fat and is becoming more lean. Haru looks more chubby at times too! Its so adorable. Okay, Just for fun (Ha!) would you please tell me how many organ meals and Heart meals, they receive in a week. I don't need all organs just an example of what you could use.So, Its 2 Organ meals per week, each with chicken liver, beef kidney and hearts. (I'm actually going to give that kidney a go this week, Yay!!) Just to clear up any confusion I may have regarding the liver side of things again. Liver is 5% of the weekly menu (per 1 ferret) and one liver is 29.4 grams. (You mentioned before that I should have 1/4 liver and 1/4 other organ) So 1/4 of 29.4g is 7.35g and since I'm thinking for the two ferrets It would be 14.7g per 1 meal. (Half a liver between the two of them for one organ meal) So If I give them 2 organ meals per week along side another organ like Kidney, Do I give them 14.7g of liver twice a week? Could I do that in a soup or mash form? Maybe I should have answered that in the morning. I'm sleepy so my numbers may be jumbled. Good night for me~
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 13:40:40 GMT -5
Wow. Thats interesting. I've never seen any frog's legs around. The first thing I thought was possibly french or cantonese cuisine. It sounds something maybe you would give as a treat. How expensive is it?
The French have the biggest reputation over here for serving frog legs. Our state of Louisiana is cajun creole country. It's a swampy state. Have you heard of our Mardi Gras? That's a wild street party. The French settled Louisiana, so most creole dishes are french based and Frog legs are popular. Vietnam was also heavily influenced by the French.
I don't know about the Cantonese dishes. I lived in Korea for a year and they eat everything, but I never saw Frog legs. I haven't seen them in The Phillipines or Japan (Okinawa) either.
I can now play with them using my hands without worrying about a huge CHOMP Yuki gets alittle rough sometimes but I say "AH! Not hard!" he gets the point and calms down which is very good. Play longer and less need for time outs. That's what we both want~>3<
That's good, they can hurt when they chomp. They are learning their human social skills. I have times when mine get overexcited and chomp. They really only do it to Paul though. Keller never does. She will gently put her mouth around my finger and try to stash me.
Oh wow. I never knew that. Wouldn't there be alternatives though, or is it okay since its temporary?
It must be okay. The four breeders I know, have all talked about using it.
I may have mentioned this before. Last summer, Pam of PVO ferrets had two females who delivered ten kits each. The females were bonded. Tiramasu had an anyeurism and died. Shandy then had twenty kits to take care of. Pam brought in volunteers and they lost a few but I believe Shandy's made it thru and Akane (my other Mentee) has two of Tiramasu's boys. They used kitten milk replacement. Akane's Mango has a few issues still. Akane is Japanese, you might like to practice your Japanese with her.
I recently made my own freeze dried treats using left over chicken thigh. It took about a week for them to dry out. >3< I never heard of Hearts being freeze dried. I probably wouldn't be able to find any of those. Oh but I never know. Oh Since Taurine cannot be degraded from being frozen/thawed, does it stay in the meat if the meat is freeze dried? Thats intriguing.
The Taurine would remain in the Freeze dried meat as long as it's not exposed to heat. Bitbyter recently wrote a paper on that, let me ask him and get you a copy of his paper.
Tomorrow is monday, So I'll weigh them tomorrow and get some more dangling photos! ^^ Yeah, I love pictures.
Haru is really eating more, maybe she's more open to trying the meats now. I have noticed they both won't touch the chicken wing if its full, same with necks so I'll just chop them up. They seem more happy to eat them when its in chunks or smaller sizes. I think it could also be because the flesh is more out of the skin and its more enticing to them like that. I don't mind doing that for them every time they need bone in meats. ^u^ Oh wow, Juliet has backward seasons? I heard some Marshall ferrets do that since they breed all year round? Yuki seems to becoming more, whippet in size now. I was going to say 'thinner' but he's still quite bulky and is a great weight. I think Maybe he's losing his baby fat and is becoming more lean. Haru looks more chubby at times too! Its so adorable.
I would think chopping it releases the smell and also some blood, so it's more enticing. They are really adorable when they are chubby. Yuki will get more muscular. Roamy is very muscular. Wynstan is not as much, but he is less hyper and climbs less.
Roamy and Juliet are not a Marshall's. I don't know where they come from. Maybe from Path Valley or another mill though. They have no tattoos.
I weighed mine today. Here are there weights
Roamy is 1089 grams Juliet is 952 grams Mika is 953 grams. I thought she weighed more. Juliet has the length and Mika has the food baby belly. See, I'm learning to speak Australian.
Wynstan is 1315.4 grams He is my big boy, but males can lose 30 percent of their body weight in the summer. Keller is 756 grams. She is my tiny munchkin.
So, Its 2 Organ meals per week, each with chicken liver, beef kidney and hearts. (I'm actually going to give that kidney a go this week, Yay!!)
Just to clear up any confusion I may have regarding the liver side of things again.
Liver is 5% of the weekly menu (per 1 ferret) and one liver is 29.4 grams. (You mentioned before that I should have 1/4 liver and 1/4 other organ)
So 1/4 of 29.4g is 7.35g and since I'm thinking for the two ferrets It would be 14.7g per 1 meal.
(Half a liver between the two of them for one organ meal) So If I give them 2 organ meals per week along side another organ like Kidney, Do I give them 14.7g of liver twice a week? Could I do that in a soup or mash form?
You're sleepy and I'm numerically challenged. Okay, let's see. It is One Organ meal of Liver plus another Organ. The second meal is 1/4 Liver plus another 1/4 meal of another Organ and a half meal of Heart.
One full meal of Heart that counts as a Muscle meat meal.
Okay, numbers...sigh and shudder
You want to factor in how much they eat in one week.
So, if Haru eats 56 grams a day times seven days, that is 392 grams in a week. Yuki may eat 113 grams in a day times seven days which is 791 grams in a week.
It doesn't have to be completely exact, because we can't know for 100 percent sure, that she ate 392 grams exactly and he ate 791 grams in a week.
Five percent for Haru would be 19.6 grams and divide that into two meals and you would have 9.8 grams each organ meal.
Five percent of 791 for Yuki would be 39.5 grams divided into two meals and you have 19.7 grams per his organ meal.
Add Yuki's five percent and Haru's five percent and one meal for the two of them is 29.5 grams of liver in their organ meals.
You are basing the five percent of how much they eat in one week, not on the size of the liver.
You can make that into a soup form, simply puree it. You can slice it into slivers or you could mix it into some ground turkey mince or ground beef mince. You'll have to do some experimenting and learn how they like their organ meals prepared.
Now, I have a question...what is does this mean? That's what we both want~>3<
I have seen you use the ->3 before and I don't know what it means, lol.
Now, I'm going to have my husband check those numbers for me. (shy)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 1:32:28 GMT -5
The French have the biggest reputation over here for serving frog legs.Our state of Louisiana is cajun creole country. It's a swampy state. Have you heard of our Mardi Gras?That's a wild street party.The French settled Louisiana, so most creole dishes are french based and Frog legs are popular.Vietnam was also heavily influenced by the French.I've never had french cuisine before. I have heard of Mardi Gras~ I'm pretty sure its very well known all over the world. I never knew the french settled in Louisiana Thats so interesting~ I don't think I would have the courage to try Frogs legs. (even snails ;A;) I don't know about the Cantonese dishes. I lived in Korea for a year and they eat everything, but I never saw Frog legs. I haven't seen them in The Phillipines or Japan (Okinawa) either.I love Korea! ;u; They have some very nice foods~ My favorite is cheese-buldak~ That's good, they can hurt when they chomp. They are learning their human social skills.I have times when mine get overexcited and chomp. They really only do it to Paul though.Keller never does. She will gently put her mouth around my finger and try to stash me.They're very smart animals. They catch on so fast. I noticed they kind of play like kittens. Like if you rub their belly, and they roll on their back and grab your hand with their little paws >3< Its adorable! Yuki loves belly rubs. I tried them with Haru a couple of times and she just walks away and stares at me like "What on earth are you trying to do..." I was telling my roommate before that those gummy nips are okay and I would prefer to encourage that then biting or hard nips. ^^ Can't escape nips, so may as well just teach them what is acceptable for us. Awh! Keller is such a cutie! Having a ferret try to stash you must be a compliment in ferret language! >3< I may have mentioned this before.Last summer, Pam of PVO ferrets had two females who delivered ten kits each. The females were bonded.Tiramasu had an anyeurism and died. Shandy then had twenty kits to take care of. Pam brought in volunteers and they lost a few but I believe Shandy's made it thru and Akane (my other Mentee) has two of Tiramasu's boys. They used kitten milk replacement.Akane's Mango has a few issues still. Akane is Japanese, you might like to practice your Japanese with her.Oh you never mentioned that! Poor Tiramasu ;n; It's also sad that they lost a few kits. It's really sad when little baby animals lose a mother. I was in a house fire when I was around 10 years old and my cat had 6 kittens. They lost their mother but thankfully were rescued. 2 kittens died from smoke inhalation, and the other four had to be hand fed. They were doing well but then one more kitten died. Luckily 3 out of the 6 survived and grew up to have a happy healthy life. I hope Mango does alright! ;u; What a cute name! I saw Akane on facebook. I might send her a friend request later. ^^ The Taurine would remain in the Freeze dried meat as long as it's not exposed to heat. Bitbyter recently wrote a paper on that, let me ask him and get you a copy of his paper.Oh that would be great! I would love to see it~ I would think chopping it releases the smell and also some blood, so it's more enticing. They are really adorable when they are chubby. Yuki will get more muscular. Roamy is very muscular. Wynstan is not as much, but he is less hyper and climbs less.
I was thinking the same thing. They weren't touching their slivers this morning so I decided instead of wasting the meat, I would just blend it slightly and they both ate it so in the end its a win. ^^ That explains why Yuki would be so muscular, since he's always moving when he's out He climbs everything and runs up and down the hall. Haru is climbing more now as well. I would be sitting on the couch writing something on the computer and Haru would climb up the couch to come see what I was up to. >3< Such cuties. Roamy and Juliet are not a Marshall's. I don't know where they come from. Maybe from Path Valley or another mill though. They have no tattoos.Is Path Valley another ferret mill? There must be a few ferret mills over there. We're lucky since we have none of the ferret mills here. But we still can have bad genetics when it comes to ferret breeding. I weighed mine today. Here are there weightsYay! Roamy is 1089 gramsJuliet is 952 gramsMika is 953 grams. I thought she weighed more. Juliet has the length and Mika has the food baby belly.See, I'm learning to speak Australian.Awh! Thats so cute! Wynstan is 1315.4 gramsHe is my big boy, but males can lose 30 percent of their body weight in the summer.Keller is 756 grams. She is my tiny munchkin.Wow! Yuki's only alittle bit bigger than Wynstan. Haru weights alittle more than Keller too. I'll look out for the weight changes as summer approaches. Its good that I'm aware, otherwise I would probably freak out. You're sleepy and I'm numerically challenged. Hahaha! I'm also numerically challenged. Ah the numbers! Okay, let's see.It is One Organ meal of Liver plus another Organ.The second meal is 1/4 Liver plus another 1/4 meal of another Organ and a half meal of Heart.One full meal of Heart that counts as a Muscle meat meal.Okay, numbers...sigh and shudderhahaha! Sooorrrry! >3< You want to factor in how much they eat in one week.So, if Haru eats 56 grams a day times seven days, that is 392 grams in a week. Yuki may eat 113 grams in a day times seven days which is 791 grams in a week.It doesn't have to be completely exact, because we can't know for 100 percent sure, that she ate 392 grams exactly and he ate 791 grams in a week. Five percent for Haru would be 19.6 grams and divide that into two meals and you would have 9.8 grams each organ meal.Five percent of 791 for Yuki would be 39.5 grams divided into two meals and you have 19.7 grams per his organ meal.Add Yuki's five percent and Haru's five percent and one meal for the two of them is 29.5 grams of liver in their organ meals. You are basing the five percent of how much they eat in one week, not on the size of the liver.Ah Thats probably where I confused myself. Wow. Maybe I should haven't have thought about liver and numbers at so early in the morning LOL. You can make that into a soup form, simply puree it. You can slice it into slivers or you could mix it into some ground turkey mince or ground beef mince. You'll have to do some experimenting and learn how they like their organ meals prepared.
Oooh The experimenting should be fun! Now, I have a question...what is does this mean? That's what we both want~>3<
I have seen you use the ->3 before and I don't know what it means, lol.OMG It's a face. This > is a closed eye. and the 3 is like pouty lips. So >3< Is a face (can you see it?) And if you see now, He has a head and an arm! (>3<)/ Now, I'm going to have my husband check those numbers for me. (shy)
It should be fine. ^^ I have a better understanding now~ Ah~ Time for some photos and weigh in! 1. Ferret's name: Yuki. 2. Ferret's weight: 1330g. 3. Ferret has eaten "3 ounces" on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins: Light brown, Some Dark and seedy. (Yellow with egg) 5. Activity levels: Energetic and Bouncy~ 6. Weekly menu: Chicken Slivers, Wingettes, Necks. 1. Ferret's name: Haru. 2. Ferret's weight: 850g. 3. Ferret has eaten "1-2 ounces" on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins: Light Brown, Some dark and seedy. (Yellow with Egg) 5. Activity levels: Moderate Energetic, playful. 6. Weekly menu: Chicken Slivers, Wingettes, Necks. Both have had Pinkies and fuzzies.
Yuki was so wriggly lol!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 2:20:38 GMT -5
This is what I plan for this week (so far).
Until Wednesday I have Hearts/Necks/Kidney.
I just ran out of Muscle Meat (chicken) Slivers, so I decided to plan what I have so far, and stick to a plan. ^^
This week I want to pick up the following; Quail (4 pack.) Wings. Mince (Beef, and Possibly Turkey) Beef or Pork for slivers/muscle meat. Gizzards. Kidney (possibly other Organ as well.) Possibly some Lamb Heart, Or Pork Heart.
If I can’t get Quail, I’m going to ask if I can have some ordered in for the following week. I'm really eager to get some of it. ^^
Saturday. (B+M)
AM- Chicken Slivers. PM- Necks.
Sunday. (today – M+B)
AM- Chicken Slivers (mashed)
PM- Necks.
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Monday. (O+M+B)
AM- Liver/Kidney/Hearts. (1/4 of L+K)
PM- Chicken Necks. (Mashed/Crushed)
Tuesday- (B)
AM- Necks. (Crushed Slightly)
PM- Necks. (Crushed Slightly, Hopefully in chunks this time)
Wednesday. (Shopping day.) (B+M) Egg Day.
AM- Necks. (Egg)
PM- Gizzards & Beef or Turkey Mince. (Or slivers)
Thursday. (B)
AM- Wings.
PM- Quail. (Hopefully ^^)
Friday- (O+B)
AM- Liver/Kidney/Heart. (1/4 L+K)
PM- Necks.
I'm thinking of keeping the plan like that, and possibly changing the Chicken Slivers to Beef or Pork and possibly change the necks to something else next week.
Does it look okay?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 5:45:41 GMT -5
I'm up in the middle of the night again. So, is Mika. It's funny when we are both in the same awake zone. Looking at your menu:
Saturday. (B+M)
AM- Chicken Slivers. PM- Necks.
Necks will be #1 Bone in meal Chicken slivers without bone will be #1 muscle meat meal
Sunday. (today – M+B)
AM- Chicken Slivers (mashed) Chicken slivers with out bone? Don't mash them, let them get use to chewing slivers.. #2 Muscle meat meal.
PM- Necks.
Chicken necks? Until you can go shopping, right. #2 Bone In meal
Monday. (O+M+B)
AM- Liver/Kidney/Hearts. (1/4 of L+K)
What kind of Liver and Kidney, you want to always include the protein source #1 Organ meal and your are including 1/2 of the hearts that are in a half meal of Hearts on an Organ meal day, correct? Or is this a full meal of hearts with organs included?
PM- Chicken Necks. (Mashed/Crushed)
#3 bone in meal
Tuesday- (B)
AM- Necks. (Crushed Slightly) PM- Necks. (Crushed Slightly, Hopefully in chunks this time)
#5 and 6 Bone In meal We're chicken heavy, but I know you will shop the next day. So, I wouldn't give any more chicken this week.
Wednesday. (Shopping day.) (B+M) Egg Day.
AM- Necks. (Egg)
What kind of necks? Egg is good.
PM- Gizzards & Beef or Turkey Mince. (Or slivers)
Either choice is a muscle meat meal. That puts you at #3 on Muscle meats
Thursday. (B)
AM- Wings. What kind of wings? I imagine it will be based on your shopping trip. We don't want another chicken here.
PM- Quail. (Hopefully ^^) Fingers crossed. #7 and #8 bone In meal
Friday- (O+B) AM- Liver/Kidney/Heart. (1/4 L+K)
Your second Organ meal. What kind of Liver/kidney and heart?
Again, are you doing 1/2 of the 1/2 heart meal for organs? Heart is ten percent of their weekly intake.
One full meal of hearts is five percent, one one meal of Heart is added to one Organ meal. You really can configure it, how you like as long as it adds up to ten percent of what they eat in one week.
P.M. Necks What kind of necks here?
You want 7-9 Bone In meals 3-4 Muscle meat meals, including one full meal of Hearts. One meal of Liver plus another Organ One meal of Liver plus another Organ We need at least 3 different proteins.
I'm thinking of keeping the plan like that, and possibly changing the Chicken Slivers to Beef or Pork and possibly change the necks to something else next week.
Since the Frankenprey menu needs 7-9 bone in meals, once you have shopped and found other bone in sources, keeping the same menu for now is fine.
Muscle meat meals will be a good time to add another protein like the beef or pork that you mentioned. Heather will not approve a menu that is based too heavily on chicken. They need the different nutrients found in a variety of other protein sources. Also, chicken is a common allergy or intolerance, and we don't want to trigger it. It may lead to IBD.
Plus you want at least 3 proteins and at least one red meat meal. Muscle meat meals will be 3-4 meals and should include one full meal of hearts.
Two Organ meals: Liver plus another organ Liver plus another organ and a half meal of hearts. You can configure that to a 1/4 meal of hearts for each organ meal, if you prefer it that way.
That's a few small suggestions and I know we are waiting for your shopping trip.
:wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 7:36:25 GMT -5
I'm up in the middle of the night again. So, is Mika.It's funny when we are both in the same awake zone.Its currently 9:30pm It must be early morning over there? I had Haru & Yuki playing around most of the day. Yuki napped in one of the rooms for a while We have a full packet of chicken necks, so I was thinking I would use those if I wouldn't be able to find anything like Turkey or Duck wings. I haven't seen anything other than Chicken Necks and Wings so far so both those would be something I would use for Bone in Meats. Since It's chicken heavy already, I was going to get something else for slivers or muscle meat, Like Beef or Pork. I'm hoping I'm able to get my hands on some Quail. AH I found a shop online where I could get game meat. They have quail eggs too! Oh yay! I should buy some things from here. www.poultryandgamemeat.com.au/game-meat/There's also this one which has duck hearts and livers.. shop.somethingwild.com.au I might try buying from them in the future. It would help alot with cutting down on the chicken. ^^ It might be cheaper to get Quail from Biosupplies. But they would have the feathers and all. But I guess in a way it would be better since they would still have the insides. If I cannot get the frozen quail in store, should I buy them in bulk from Biosupplies instead? Anyway, If I can't get certain meats (other than Chicken for bone-in meats), Is it still okay to temporarily use chicken? I should be able to put an order on in two weeks so I may as well just by the meats in bulk~ ^^ I'm going to cut chicken from the Muscle meat though. ^^ And for the liver/organ. I was thinking of doing it 1/2. ^^ I have Chicken livers, and the Beef Kidney. For the 3 proteins, I'm thinking this week, they would be Beef, Pork and Chicken to start with. I'm also hoping to get Turkey and Quail so they would also be another two proteins. ^^ I'm hoping to cut down the chicken alot since like you said about it being an allergen. If Lamb wasn't so expensive, I would get some of that. I'm going to try and get some Lamb hearts as well. I saw those last time so If I can get that, I could replace the chicken hearts. There may also be Lamb kidneys, and like I bought last time the beef kidney. They're quite big, so I can cut them down to size, no problem. ^^ Since the Frankenprey menu needs 7-9 bone in meals, once you have shopped and found other bone in sources, keeping the same menu for now is fine. I'm hoping to build a good plan and then stick to it~ I want to also try experimenting with new bone in meats. Hopefully I can find some better types of bone-in meats other than the chicken. ^^ Muscle meat meals will be a good time to add another protein like the beef or pork that you mentioned.Heather will not approve a menu that is based too heavily on chicken.They need the different nutrients found in a variety of other protein sources.Also, chicken is a common allergy or intolerance, and we don't want to trigger it. It may lead to IBD.Yes yes~ That was what I was planning on doing. Since I can only get my hands on chicken for the bone in meats for now, I'll use beef or pork for the muscle meats. Once I can get some quail or another bone in meat, Then I can cut down on the chicken bone in meats alot more. ^^ I'm going to buy in bulk online in the near future, so I should be able to cut down on the chicken in no time. One of those online shops I mentioned earlier also had pigeon. Maybe I could also try that in the future also. Plus you want at least 3 proteins and at least one red meat meal.Muscle meat meals will be 3-4 meals and should include one full meal of hearts.Beef would be the red meat. I want to try lamb but its so pricey. When looking at the long term plan, It wouldn't be something I could get all the time. But Beef is easily available, Sometimes pricey but the fatty parts can be quite cheap and thats what we want anyway. Beef kidney is huge and only costs about $3-$5. It would also last over 2 weeks or more since its very big and they won't need alot of it for organs over a week. ^^ Duck is also very pricey so I don't plan on using it as a solid part of the plan yet. Maybe when its in season I could use it as well. Turkey can be pricey, but the mince is about the same price as chicken mince, that would be considered muscle meat so I should get some of that as well. I'm going to list some things and ask my butcher again next time. I'm going to check out what the costs would be and when the costs drop on certain meats so I know what I can get and when. ^^ I wanted to get Goat, but I wasn't able to find it. That website (shop.somethingwild.com.au/) Has alot of meats. I was just browsing and noticed that Alpaca meat is quite pricey. Goat seems like a good price there as well. (Really I would love to try Goat! For the ferrets I mean, I personally wouldn't eat Goat) They have rabbit, but it seems pricey. They have crocodile meat as well (lol my friend has had crocodile and says it tastes good, apparently) I wonder how big crocodile ribs would be... Crocodile seems to be a white meat, well I'm assuming since its light in colouring. Kangaroo is fairly cheap. Especially Kangaroo mince. There's also diced wild boar. Oh so much I could try. At the moment, I think I want to try finding more Bone in meats since that seems to be my main concern since at the moment in store only has bone in meats like chicken wings/necks. I'm going to do some research and looking around. Hopefully I can find something like Turkey necks or Duck necks for a good price. Eventually I hope to cut down the chicken alot, or even just take it out completely. ^^ Two Organ meals: Liver plus another organ Liver plus another organ and a half meal of hearts. You can configure that to a 1/4 meal of hearts for each organ meal, if you prefer it that way.
That's a few small suggestions and I know we are waiting for your shopping trip.
I'm going to start organising the meats and things as well. At the moment I'm lacking containers, but I plan on getting more very soon. I like things nice and organised, since it makes like so much easier. ^^
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 8:53:50 GMT -5
It was 6:30 a.m. when I posted. I have been up since 4:30. I really would like to go back to sleep. I found this wonderful chart that Celene posted. It will give you some other ideas for Bone In: 1.Turkey 2.Goose 3. Barbary Duck 4. Guinea fowl 5. Mallard duck 6. Poussin 7. Quail 8. Partridge 9. Pigeon squab 10. Pheasant 11. Chicken 12. Aylesbury Duck AH I found a shop online where I could get game meat. They have quail eggs too! Oh yay! I should buy some things from here. www.poultryandgamemeat.com.au/game-meat/ There's also this one which has duck hearts and livers.. shop.somethingwild.com.au I might try buying from them in the future. It would help alot with cutting down on the chicken. ^^
It might be cheaper to get Quail from Biosupplies. But they would have the feathers and all. But I guess in a way it would be better since they would still have the insides. If I cannot get the frozen quail in store, should I buy them in bulk from Biosupplies instead? Anyway, If I can't get certain meats (other than Chicken for bone-in meats), Is it still okay to temporarily use chicken? I should be able to put an order on in two weeks so I may as well just by the meats in bulk~ ^^ I'm going to cut chicken from the Muscle meat though. ^^
It sounds like a great place for other proteins. If you buy the quail that is whole, you will have to pluck the feathers and then because it has all the inside bits, adjust your menu to include those organs. Quiz Question, How would you do that?It will be okay to use chicken for the short term. Heather won't approve a final menu if it is too chicken heavy? Quiz Question: Why don't you want a chicken heavy menu? There are two good answers.
Beef would be the red meat. I want to try lamb but its so pricey. When looking at the long term plan, It wouldn't be something I could get all the time. But Beef is easily available, Sometimes pricey but the fatty parts can be quite cheap and thats what we want anyway. Beef kidney is huge and only costs about $3-$5. It would also last over 2 weeks or more since its very big and they won't need alot of it for organs over a week. ^^ Duck is also very pricey so I don't plan on using it as a solid part of the plan yet. Maybe when its in season I could use it as well. Turkey can be pricey, but the mince is about the same price as chicken mince, that would be considered muscle meat so I should get some of that as well. I'm going to list some things and ask my butcher again next time. I'm going to check out what the costs would be and when the costs drop on certain meats so I know what I can get and when. ^^ I wanted to get Goat, but I wasn't able to find it.
Beef is great and not so pricey. Duck is pricey, so as I mentioned before, keep looking for those duck gizzards or hearts. Goat is surprisingly pricey. We have goats for sale at a Farmers house. I should buy one, but I don't have the heart to do that. They all showed up at our house one day. There must have been fifty or more. Big goats, little goats, brown goats, white goats...they were having a lovely visit. I had so much fun watching them. I was just browsing and noticed that Alpaca meat is quite pricey. Goat seems like a good price there as well. (Really I would love to try Goat! For the ferrets I mean, I personally wouldn't eat Goat) They have rabbit, but it seems pricey. They have crocodile meat as well (lol my friend has had crocodile and says it tastes good, apparently) I wonder how big crocodile ribs would be... Crocodile seems to be a white meat, well I'm assuming since its light in colouring. Kangaroo is fairly cheap. Especially Kangaroo mince. There's also diced wild boar. Oh so much I could try.
You can get some really exotic meats. That's wonderful. I don't know much about crocodiles. We have Alligators in some states, and they were everywhere in Florida. Especially around Golf courses. They tend to show up around ponds, then little doggies go missing. I'll look into Croc ribs and see how big they are. Okay, I'm off to either do something productive or go back to sleep, for a little while. :goodjob: I'll look into
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 10:17:02 GMT -5
It was 6:30 a.m. when I posted. I have been up since 4:30. I really would like to go back to sleep.Oh my. Do you ever sleep? (just kidding hahahaha!) I found this wonderful chart that Celene posted. It will give you some other ideas for Bone In:Oh wow, Thats a really great chart! I never knew the different sizes, that chart really makes it easier to visualise the size differences between different birds. Turkey is the mother of all poultry. Oh my. It sounds like a great place for other proteins.If you buy the quail that is whole, you will have to pluck the feathers and then because it has all the inside bits, adjust your menu to include those organs.Quiz Question, How would you do that?Haha... oh good question... If I was to give them a whole quail, I have to subtract it from their overall meal plan for that week and adjust the organ percentages to keep it at 5%, and Hearts at 10% like you mentioned earlier, but how do I subtract the whole prey without knowing the weight of its organs? (or do I subtract using the overall weight of the bird? Okay I may have just confused myself with math again ) I’m not exactly sure what the weight of the quail is though.. I’ll just say 10grams. I’ll use a rough example of what I think with Yuki. So.. If Yuki Eats about 791g per week and 5% (organ) of that is about 39g… would I then subtract that 10gram quail from the 39g? That would leave 29g, so would that mean that he would get 29g of organ for the rest of the week? If I'm completely off track, could you give me an example to clear up my self driven confusion? >3< It will be okay to use chicken for the short term.Heather won't approve a final menu if it is too chicken heavy?Quiz Question: Why don't you want a chicken heavy menu? There are two good answers.Chicken is a high allergen and intolerance. It's the most common allergen to cause IBD in ferrets. Beef is great and not so pricey. Duck is pricey, so as I mentioned before, keep looking for those duck gizzards or hearts. Goat is surprisingly pricey. We have goats for sale at a Farmers house. I should buy one, but I don't have the heart to do that. They all showed up at our house one day. There must have been fifty or more. Big goats, little goats, brown goats, white goats...they were having a lovely visit. I had so much fun watching them.
Goats are adorable, once I get past their creepy looking eyes. "Awh, cute goat... My ferrets would love to eat you ;A;" I saw this video a while ago with baby goats in pajamas, playing! Oh I found it ;u; Now I feel just as bad since they're so cute, but I really would like to try my ferrets on goat meat. ;o; So many mixed emotions.. You can get some really exotic meats. That's wonderful.I don't know much about crocodiles. We have Alligators in some states, and they were everywhere in Florida. Especially around Golf courses. They tend to show up around ponds, then little doggies go missing. I'll look into Croc ribs and see how big they are.It would be great to try some exotic meats. I really wonder what they would think of crocodile meat.. We have fresh water and salt water crocodiles. Should I be careful with meat from a salt water croc? I watched a Documentary about alligators attacks. I think there was this one that was in florida, and a alligator came out of the river onto land and snatched a lady who was doing her gardening... She ended up getting away, but died in the hospital. The Alligator was apparently very large. ;A; We have cases like that with our crocs as well. They're quite dangerous and alot of tourists who swim in waters with crocs end up getting themselves hurt or killed. ;A; I might send an email online to SomethingWild and ask them what size they are. I'll let you know if I get a reply even if you end up finding out the size before I do~ ^^ Okay, I'm off to either do something productive or go back to sleep, for a little while.
Alright! Bye bye for now~ I'm probably off to sleep shortly also.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 16:15:12 GMT -5
Hello :banana: Oh my. Do you ever sleep? (just kidding hahahaha!)
I like to read, so I get into bed early. I read for awhile and then go to sleep. I think I'm spending too much time in bed. I also can't get my brain to stop planning outfits for my vacation. I love clothes and love having some project for my brain to work on. My last project was unraveling and learning about the courts of France and England in the 1500's. Before that it was butterfly gardening. I love the planning and research, but not the practical application. I had the funkiest Butterfly garden, it was a mess but the Butterflies loved it. Oh wow, Thats a really great chart! I never knew the different sizes, that chart really makes it easier to visualise the size differences between different birds. Turkey is the mother of all poultry. Oh my.
Celene makes the best charts and is a very good Mentor. I've been impressed with her from Day One. One thing confused me. I know Pouisson is French for chicken. So number 6 and number 11 are both chickens. They must be a different breed. Doesn't Squab sound more elegant than pigeon? Haha... oh good question... If I was to give them a whole quail, I have to subtract it from their overall meal plan for that week and adjust the organ percentages to keep it at 5%, and Hearts at 10% like you mentioned earlier, but how do I subtract the whole prey without knowing the weight of its organs? (or do I subtract using the overall weight of the bird? Okay I may have just confused myself with math again ) I’m not exactly sure what the weight of the quail is though.. I’ll just say 10grams.
You're right about subtracting the Whole Prey Quail from their overall meal plan. Ignore the weight of the quail though. What you do next is to count the amount of grams that they have eaten in their Non Whole prey meals. Then you take five percent from the remaining meals of Non Whole Prey and use five percent of the remaining numbers. Does that make sense to you? I’ll use a rough example of what I think with Yuki. So.. If Yuki Eats about 791g per week and 5% (organ) of that is about 39g… would I then subtract that 10gram quail from the 39g? That would leave 29g, so would that mean that he would get 29g of organ for the rest of the week? If I'm completely off track, could you give me an example to clear up my self driven confusion? >3< If you fed a whole prey quail, that would count as a full meal. So, now you only have to find five percent of what they ate in their remaining six meals. Even though, we give them two meals a day, we base the organ percentage on what they eat in one day. Seven meals minus One whole prey quail equals six meals. If Yuki eats 85 grams a day. Subtract the Whole prey Quail meal from his seven day menu. 85 grams times Six meals is 510 grams. Five percent of 510 grams is 25.5 grams. Two organ meals means he gets 12.75 grams for each liver meal. Do you follow me on that? Chicken is a high allergen and intolerance. It's the most common allergen to cause IBD in ferrets.
Correct. It is a high allergy/intolerance meat. Answer number two is that we want a variety of different animals because a variety gives us vitamins/minerals and nutrients from other animals, like Beef which is high in Iron and Vitamin B. Goats are adorable, once I get past their creepy looking eyes. "Awh, cute goat... My ferrets would love to eat you ;A;" I saw this video a while ago with baby goats in pajamas, playing! Oh I found it ;u;
That is so cute. That's another reason that we don't have goats or cows. I would have them in pajama's and be reading them Night Night stories while they eat cookies. Have you ever help Haru or Yuki up in the light and seen their pupils? Ferrets eyes are so dark, but you can see their pupils if you look hard enough. It would be great to try some exotic meats. I really wonder what they would think of crocodile meat.. We have fresh water and salt water crocodiles. Should I be careful with meat from a salt water croc? I watched a Documentary about alligators attacks. I think there was this one that was in florida, and a alligator came out of the river onto land and snatched a lady who was doing her gardening... She ended up getting away, but died in the hospital. The Alligator was apparently very large. ;A; We have cases like that with our crocs as well. They're quite dangerous and alot of tourists who swim in waters with crocs end up getting themselves hurt or killed. ;A;
The idea of saltwater crocodiles is terrifying. I love water and try to ignore the idea of sharks being in it. I can't imagine crocodiles also. I would never go to the beach. My Grandmother was chased by a Gator. He lived in the pond behind her house. Too many people were feeding it. You are not suppose to do that. He either thought she was dinner or she was bringing dinner. Happily, she was paying attention and got into her house safely. I'm still working on Crocodile ribs. We'll just have to see who comes up with what. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 6:43:39 GMT -5
I like to read, so I get into bed early. I read for awhile and then go to sleep.I think I'm spending too much time in bed. I also can't get my brain to stop planning outfits for my vacation. I love clothes and love having some project for my brain to work on.My last project was unraveling and learning about the courts of France and England in the 1500's.Before that it was butterfly gardening.I love the planning and research, but not the practical application.I had the funkiest Butterfly garden, it was a mess but the Butterflies loved it.I love reading~ I could spend hours reading. ^^ Planning things is fun, especially since you can look forward to doing something. ^u^ I'm impressed by butterfly gardens. I wish my yard was big enough for a nice garden. >3< Celene makes the best charts and is a very good Mentor. I've been impressed with her from Day One. One thing confused me. I know Pouisson is French for chicken. So number 6 and number 11 are both chickens. They must be a different breed. Doesn't Squab sound more elegant than pigeon?
I was just reading about Pouisson and, Apparently Pouisson is a small cross breed of Rock Cornish game hen. Its less commonly called a coquelet. Its also referred as a spring chicken. (That sounds cute. I like spring~) Squab sounds unappetising "Oh I feel like having some Squab." hahaha! You're right about subtracting the Whole Prey Quail from their overall meal plan.
Ignore the weight of the quail though.
What you do next is to count the amount of grams that they have eaten in their Non Whole prey meals. Then you take five percent from the remaining meals of Non Whole Prey and use five percent of the remaining numbers. Does that make sense to you? If you fed a whole prey quail, that would count as a full meal. So, now you only have to find five percent of what they ate in their remaining six meals. Even though, we give them two meals a day, we base the organ percentage on what they eat in one day. Seven meals minus One whole prey quail equals six meals. Do you follow me on that?
OH, Now it makes sense. The weight of the whole prey isn't counted in grams, but just rather as a whole meal. Okay, after reading your explanation it makes alot of sense. Yuki would get the 7 (85g) meals in a week so all I need to do is just ignore one meal that would be the Quail, and use the other 6 meals when figuring out the other 5% for the organ meals. Thats actually quite simple. I probably over thought about it and got myself confused. Correct. It is a high allergy/intolerance meat. Answer number two is that we want a variety of different animals because a variety gives us vitamins/minerals and nutrients from other animals, like Beef which is high in Iron and Vitamin B.
Ah, I never thought of that! (It's the most obvious answer too and it never came to my mind ;A;) Is there other kinds of meats that are like chicken and are high or are a known allergy? I know that Lamb is an easy to digest meat, and you told me once before that is like the opposite of chicken and is a Hypoallergenic meat..? (Was that the right word?) That is so cute.That's another reason that we don't have goats or cows. I would have them in pajama's and be reading them Night Night stories while they eat cookies.I would find myself doing the same thing hahahaha! I want a goat... "Hi Landlord.. I know you said no cats or dogs as pets... but could I possibly have a goat~" ;u; My landlord would probably think I was crazy ahahahaha. Have you ever help Haru or Yuki up in the light and seen their pupils? Ferrets eyes are so dark, but you can see their pupils if you look hard enough.Oh yes I have. I first thought they were similar to goats, but not as creepy looking. Yuki's pupils are more noticeable, especially in photos since his eyes are lighter than haru's. The idea of saltwater crocodiles is terrifying. I love water and try to ignore the idea of sharks being in it. I can't imagine crocodiles also. I would never go to the beach.Both Fresh and Salt water crocs are basically at the top end of Australia. So I'm pretty safe down on the opposite end of australia hahahahhaa. Fresh water crocs: "in general, it is still considered safe to swim with this species, so long as they are not aggravated." Ha. I wouldn't do that regardless. But compared to the salty, I would rather be face to face with a fresh water croc since a salty kills anything that enters the water. Fresh water crocs usually live in places like the wetlands, billabongs, rivers and creeks, while the salty would stick to the coast and some rivers.. My Grandmother was chased by a Gator. He lived in the pond behind her house. Too many people were feeding it. You are not suppose to do that. He either thought she was dinner or she was bringing dinner. Happily, she was paying attention and got into her house safely.I wouldn't feed them ;A; That would encourage them to stick around where the food is easily available to them. You're grandmother was lucky! ;o; I hear sometimes people get crocs in their swimming pools. It usually happens especially if theres floods. I once saw a Eastern brown snake in my old backyard when I lived in Echuca. I had to bring my dog inside because I was paranoid. Snakes sometimes may end up wandering into houses over here. It mainly happens in country places. I live sort of in a semi- country place and semi close to a major city so I have yet to see anymore snakes. (They terrify me.) I'm still working on Crocodile ribs. We'll just have to see who comes up with what.I'm still waiting on a reply as well. I'm very curious about those now. Today, I got a box package. It was quite large and I realised it was my packing peanuts I ordered for the ferrets. I got alot more than I realised, so now Haru & Yuki have one container filled with packing peanuts and a huge box filled with them. >3< More fun things to play in~ Yuki was so cheeky today. He managed to get into the ferret off limits kitchen.. I'm going to have to up my game with him hahaha! I've been closing off the kitchen using a long large piece of cardboard. I might get something better soon, Maybe something like wood board. Yuki would easily jump those childrens gates so that wouldn't help ;A; He's such a cheeky boy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 9:21:54 GMT -5
Good Morning I love reading~ I could spend hours reading. ^^ Planning things is fun, especially since you can look forward to doing something. ^u^ I'm impressed by butterfly gardens. I wish my yard was big enough for a nice garden. >3< I love love love to read. Butterfly gardens are fun because you can use native plants that are nice and hardy. You put the nectar plants out and see what shows up. Then you put our the specific plants that the catepillar eats. Each type has a different host plant. Then you try to entice exotic butterflies by putting out their host plants. We bought two houses on the same street (not at the same time). By the time we left our neighborhood was full of butterflies. I was just reading about Pouisson and, Apparently Pouisson is a small cross breed of Rock Cornish game hen. Its less commonly called a coquelet. Its also referred as a spring chicken. (That sounds cute. I like spring~)
That's good info, thanks for finding that. Over here, we call someone young a Spring Chicken. You would be a spring chicken, I would not. Squab does sound unappealing. Squab Squab Squab, it's fun to say though. Had you seen that TV show, Two and a Half men? OH, Now it makes sense. The weight of the whole prey isn't counted in grams, but just rather as a whole meal. Okay, after reading your explanation it makes alot of sense. Yuki would get the 7 (85g) meals in a week so all I need to do is just ignore one meal that would be the Quail, and use the other 6 meals when figuring out the other 5% for the organ meals. Thats actually quite simple. I probably over thought about it and got myself confused
We all do that with organs. I don't know why it seems so confusing but it really does. Part of the reason is that it is written in different way, in different threads. We're working on finding old threads and editing them to read the same way. Ah, I never thought of that! (It's the most obvious answer too and it never came to my mind ;A;) Is there other kinds of meats that are like chicken and are high or are a known allergy? I know that Lamb is an easy to digest meat, and you told me once before that is like the opposite of chicken and is a Hypoallergenic meat..? (Was that the right word?)
Hypo allergenic is the right word. I am going to post an explanation on a Protein Trial Elimination Diet at the end of this post, for Today's lesson. It will talk about which meats are not common problems and which are. Both Fresh and Salt water crocs are basically at the top end of Australia. So I'm pretty safe down on the opposite end of australia hahahahhaa.
That's good. Crocs and Gators are so prehistoric looking and scarey. We went canoeing once in a spring that had gators and snakes (not my idea). The canoe tipped and I have never been so frightened. I don't scare easy, but Paul said that he had never seen me move so fast, to get out of that water. Oh and I forgot to answer that you do want to avoid saltwater fish and creatures. Some say it's okay, but I don't think it is a good idea. I'm still waiting on a reply as well. I'm very curious about those now. Today, I got a box package. It was quite large and I realised it was my packing peanuts I ordered for the ferrets. I got alot more than I realised, so now Haru & Yuki have one container filled with packing peanuts and a huge box filled with them. >3< More fun things to play in~
Yuki was so cheeky today. He managed to get into the ferret off limits kitchen.. I'm going to have to up my game with him hahaha! I've been closing off the kitchen using a long large piece of cardboard. I might get something better soon, Maybe something like wood board. Yuki would easily jump those childrens gates so that wouldn't help ;A; He's such a cheeky boy.
They will have so much fun with those. Packing peanuts are a great toy. Did you get the Cornstarch ones and not the Styrofoam peanuts? You don't want them to inadvertently or on purpose eat a styrofoam peanut. If you ordered from a pet site, they will be cornstarch peanuts. Ferrets always have Need to go where they aren't allowed. Even in my house, where only one inside door and of course, the outside door are off limits, they spend alot of time and attention trying to get thru those doors. Juliet will scratch and scratch at the carpet. I had to slide a plastic lid under the door, to save the carpet. Ok, let's talk about a Protein Elimination trial. This was written by Hurricanekatt.
If you suspect that your ferret may have IBD (Irritable Bowel Disease) or a food allergy then you may need to do an Elimination Diet to determine what foods cause your ferret to experience flare ups. The first and most important thing to do is to first get your ferret’s condition under control. Often this requires medications, though some ferrets do well with diet changes alone. Talk to your vet before starting a protein trial. It is typically best to try controlling IBD and allergies through diet before jumping to chronic steroids (pred), but if you are unable to get your ferret’s IBD under control through diet alone, a course of antibiotics may be needed and prednisolone may eventually be necessary.
What is an Elimination Diet? An elimination diet, or protein trial, is a diet in which you eliminate ALL but ONE protein/food, and slowly introduce new foods one at a time. The basic concept is to first get the symptoms under control either by meds, diet, or both, and then to test proteins to determine which ones your ferret can or cannot tolerate. The first step in an elimination diet is typically to switch your pet onto a single, novel protein. What does that mean? A novel protein is a protein that your pet has never had before. As you may well know, most ferrets imprint on their food and if they are not used to receiving a varied diet, they may not take to a completely new protein. Typically new foods should be introduced gradually, to warm your ferret to the idea that it is indeed edible. In the case of a ferret having gastrointestinal issues however, you want to get the inflammation down as quickly as possible. Forcing a sudden change to a new food that the ferret doesn’t recognize as edible yet can cause stress, exacerbating the GI upset. So now what? IF your ferret will not accept a new meat, then your best choice is to choose a protein that your ferret is familiar with, but is less likely to cause a reaction. If your ferret will accept a new meat (many ferrets who are used to a very varied raw diet will accept whatever new meat you put in their bowl), then the best place to start is with a novel protein.
Choosing a Meat: Hypo-allergenic literally means “low-allergenic”, or something that has a very low chance of causing an allergic reaction. This does not mean that “hypoallergenic” things can’t cause an allergic reaction, just that they are less likely to do so. Lamb and Goat: Lamb is typically considered “The Hypoallergenic Meat.” Lamb is very easy on the digestive system, easy to digest, and unlikely to cause an allergic response by the immune system. Goat meat is very similar to lamb, but is often much cheaper (if you can find it) and more widely accepted by ferrets (it is not uncommon for ferrets to snub lamb). For these reasons, lamb or goat are typically the first choice of go-to meats when starting an elimination diet. Due to the fact that introducing an entirely new meat can be difficult and even stressful for some of the pickier ferrets, it is advisable to at least familiarize your ferrets with lamb and/or goat, feeding it just often enough for them to recognize it as food. This way, if you ever end up needing to do a protein trial, your ferret will already recognize lamb (or goat) as food and you can immediately go to a lamb-only diet.
Rabbit: Rabbit is another meat that, in ferrets, rarely causes an allergic reaction. Rabbit is also a great non-poultry source of edible bones. However, rabbit meat is very deficient in both fat and taurine, so even if your ferret is eating a whole-prey form of the rabbit (whole ground, whole rabbit) rabbit isn’t an ideal meat to have as a ferret’s sole dietary protein for very long. For this reason rabbit is not typically recommend as a starter protein for an elimination diet; however, it is a great choice for a second or third protein to introduce later.
Pork: Pork appears to be an uncommon allergen in ferrets. Though pork is more likely to cause an allergy than lamb, goat, or rabbit, it is also a more commonly fed meat. Most raw fed ferrets are already getting some pork in their diet and will accept it without a struggle. Pork is also easily accessible at most grocery stores. It is a very fatty meat, which is helpful for putting weight back on ferrets and provides a nice balance to lean meats like rabbit. While pork in North America is very tightly regulated by the FDA, this may not be true of all countries. Note: Trichinella spiralis is a parasite commonly found in pork that is resistant to freezing. Pork in North America is carefully regulated and inspected so risk of trichinella is extremely low. However, if you live elsewhere you should research your pork sources and ensure that trichinella is not a common problem in your region. Meat from wild pork or boar should never be fed due to the risk of trichinella.
Duck: Duck is another great meat that most ferrets with allergies tolerate well. Like pork, it is a nice fatty meat. It is also a great source of edible bones. However, duck may be difficult to find and is often costly. It is good to feed your ferrets duck if you have access as it is a great, fatty, darker white meat that is typically well accepted. Turkey: Turkey is a decent source of edible bones, though many of the larger bones need to be smashed for a ferret to be able to eat. It is typically less expensive and easier to access than duck, but a less common allergen than chicken. Chicken: Chicken is a very common allergen in ferrets. It is thought by many that the antibiotics or GMO-rich diets of chicken are more frequently the source of the problem than the meat itself. Many ferrets who cannot tolerate standard chicken CAN tolerate GMO-free, antibiotic-free, organic, free-range chicken. Chicken is typically the easiest to find source of edible bones for those feeding frankenprey style raw diets. That said, it is typically best to save it for one of the later proteins to test simply because it is such a common trigger for ferrets with IBD and/or food allergies.
Beef: Beef for some reason appears to be the most common allergen in ferrets. While many argue that ferrets should not be fed beef since it is not an animal they would hunt in the wild, the fact is wild Polecats and ferrets do indeed eat carrion – including red meats such as deer, elk, etc. While these aren’t quite the same as beef, they are all red meats. Red meat is high in Vitamin B and Iron, both of which are important for a ferret’s health. However, beef is a very rich food and some ferrets do not tolerate it well even without allergies. Perhaps it is the richness, or perhaps it is the fact that most beef on the market is loaded with antibiotics and fed heavily GMO diets. Whatever the reason, beef very commonly causes reactions in ferrets with food allergies or IBD. This is unfortunate as beef meat, heart, and organs are typically among the easier to find and less costly food sources. Beef is often best saved for one of the last proteins to introduce in a protein trial, because of the high rate of allergic reactions.
Quail: Quail is a meat that most ferrets seem to tolerate very well. It is an excellent source of edible bones as well, which can be harder to find if your ferret is not able to eat chicken. Availability of quail varies by region, but many local grocers and ethnic markets keep quail in stock and often free range quail can be found from local farmers on craigslist or local co-ops.
Venison and Other Wild Game: Game meat, such as deer, moose, elk, caribou, etc is a great source of meat for your ferrets. Wild game is antibiotic and GMO free, and one of the healthiest meat options you can find in that regards. Game meat is typically extremely lean and should be balanced by offering other fatty meats in the diet. Wild animals can carry parasites, so it is important that any game meat be frozen solid for a minimum of 3 days prior to feeding it raw. Freezing should kill most parasites. The exception is, as noted above under pork, Trichinella spiralis – a parasite that is resistant to freezing, particularly in the Northern hemisphere. Trichinella can be avoided by avoiding wild pork or boar, wild rodent (squirrel, chipmunk, etc), and wild carnivore meat (e.g. bear). Wild herbivores (deer etc) and wild poultry is typically very safe to fee after freezing. If you have concerns, research common parasites in your area. Local Fish and Game or Wildlife services should be able to provide you with more information on local parasites.
Whole Prey: Whole prey is obviously the best diet your ferret can be on. It is no coincidence that whole prey is also tolerated extremely well by ferrets with IBD and food allergies. Ferrets with IBD commonly do better with a small amount of fiber in their diet, but feeding carb-rich foods such as pumpkin or other plant matter puts strain on their pancreas and may contribute to insulinoma - the fur, teeth, and claws of whole prey provide this fibrous material without the risk of insulinoma.
Commercially Ground Raw: Commercially ground raw is often a great choice for ferrets with particularly bad IBD or other GI issues. Any inflammation in the GI tract, such as that experienced in IBD or during an allergy response, is going to reduce the intestines’ ability to properly absorb nutrients. In ground form the meat is already partially broken down, making it that much easier to digest and absorb. In addition, many commercial grinds are whole-animal grinds, and contain the fur, claws and teeth previously discussed under whole prey. Another important note is that many commercial grinds are already balanced in regards to organ, heart, and bone content. This is a huge help in maintaining proper nutrition for your ferret while doing a protein trial. Beware though, as not all grinds are balanced in the ideal ratios for ferrets. If you are unsure, contact the commercial raw provider – a good company will not hesitate to answer your questions and should be able to give you an idea of what ratio or hearts, organs, bones, and muscle meats are in each of their grinds.
Step One – Get It Under Control: Step ONE Means ONE Protein! Okay, you have chosen your starting protein (which we will now refer to as your Base Protein) – now what? The first thing to do is, as mentioned above, get the inflammation under control. First you must REMOVE any proteins that you suspect may be causing the issue. Typically the best way to do this is to remove ALL proteins except for one novel protein - or at least less-likely to be the culprit protein (see above). STOP feeding your ferret ALL meats, treats, supplements, etc except for the Base Protein. For 1-2 weeks your ferret should ingest nothing but the Base Protein, and any necessary medications. If you do not begin to see improvements within a few days, you can try some natural supplements (to be discussed). If in 1-2 weeks you still do not see any improvement, than your ferret may need medications to reduce the inflammation before progress can be made OR he may need to be tried on another protein. You should ALWAYS be working closely with your vet during any health concerns, so discuss with your vet whether they think a round of antibiotics and Carafate might be beneficial for your ferret. [Triple Therapy is the common medicine regime for ferrets with ulcers or IBD-like symptoms. It consists of Amoxicillin, Metronidazole, and Carafate (Sucralfate). It is best, except in severe cases, to try Triple Therapy before jumping to steroids like Prednisolone, as steroids can have long term consequences on your ferret’s health.] Once your ferret’s symptom begin improving, you can begin to introduce new proteins. You want to ensure at least a week on the ONE Base Protein before trying anything new as it can take time for the body to cut back the immune system’s inflammatory response causing the IBD symptoms – in other words the body needs time to “flush” itself and clear up a reaction to previous proteins. You want to start on as clean of a slate as possible. If you do not see any improvement on the Base Protein and meds after a few weeks, you can try switching to a NEW Base Protein. You want to find something that your ferret does not react to, that you can fall back on. This is very important!
Step Two – Try Something New: Now that your ferret’s inflammation is at least mostly under control, you can begin to introduce new meats, and supplements. The rule is ONE CHANGE AT A TIME!!!! If you change more than one thing, than it will be impossible to determine which change the ferret responded to (either positively or negatively). This applies to both new proteins AND new supplements – try one or the other, but never both at once. Introduce changes slowly, in case your ferret has a strong reaction. Start with adding a small amount of the new protein into the next meal (typically making about ¼ of the total meal new protein is a decent starting point), and watch for any sign of reaction. If there is no response after about 1-2 meals, then increase the new protein gradually each meal, adding more of the new protein and less of the Base Protein, until the meals are entirely the new protein. As long as there is still no sign of a reaction, feed this new protein only (nothing else) for a few days. If there’s still no reaction, then you likely have found a second protein that your ferret can tolerate – congratulations! You can now feed both your Base Protein, and the Second Protein interchangeably. If there is any sign of a reaction during your trial of the new protein, then immediately stop giving the new protein and revert back to the Base Protein Only diet. Go back to step one - get your ferret’s inflammation back under control, and then try a different protein by the same process. This same process applies for testing supplements. Try one supplement for a few days and take note of any changes for the better OR the worse. If there is any reaction to the supplement, immediately stop and get things back under control before proceeding forward with any new changes (either protein or supplement). If the supplement doesn’t help (even if it doesn’t hurt them either), then there is no benefit in giving it and you should remove the supplement unless it is something your ferret really needs (e.g. a taurine supplement if your ferret isn’t eating heart). Supplements are like medications – you should only give them when absolutely needed. If the supplements help however, you now have another tool in your arsenal to help reduce your ferret’s inflammation during an IBD or allergy flare up.
Step Three: Variety Step 3 is to keep doing what you have been doing. Slowly introduce one new protein at a time, back-tracking to the Safe Proteins whenever there is a reaction. Gradually build your ferret’s variety back up. Also, experiment with different feeding methods. Does your ferret do better with slow changes between safe proteins, or constant rotation? Does he do better with supplements or without? Are there environmental stresses that could be contributing to flare ups? Pay attention – these things are important. Also, keep a written record throughout the process of what you have tried and how your ferret responded – this will help a great deal in tracking patterns over time so that you can better control your ferret’s diet and reactions.
Proteins that Cause a Reaction: If a protein causes a reaction when you feed it, stop that protein and get your ferret’s inflammation back under control before proceeding. Make note of any additional stressors that may have been contributing to the reaction as well – was your ferret stressed, did you try a new supplement at the same time, etc. After your ferret’s inflammation is back under control for at least a few weeks, try the protein again. Sometimes external stressors can contribute to an IBD flare up, causing what appears to be a reaction to the protein when it is actually a reaction to stress or simply a change in protein rather than the protein itself. It is important to ensure that your ferret is indeed sensitive to that protein before restricting their diet. Try the protein at least twice – if they react both times, particularly if the reaction is similar each time – then you can more confidently assume that the protein is the cause of the reaction. If there is some lingering doubt, you may consider testing the protein a third time but be aware that every reaction causes inflammation in your ferret that is detrimental to their health, so only attempt a third trial if you are truly uncertain. Also, if your ferret has a very obvious, and strong reaction to the protein, do NOT do a second trial. Some signs of a severe allergy include swelling of the face/paws, or other regions, severe diarrhea, and vomiting immediately after a meal (caveat: some ferrets who eat too quickly will also vomit, but in response to gorging rather than the protein – watch your ferret eat when trying a new protein so you can better gauge any response).
Maintaining Balance During a Trial: As you should already know feeding a raw diet, maintaining proper balance and variety is absolutely key in maintaining your ferret’s health and preventing nutrient deficiencies. When selecting a protein, try to select something that you have easy access to organs and heart meat for at least the second protein to trial, if not the first. For example pork is a fairly gentle meat and many ethnic markets carry pork organs. If you cannot find organs locally, you can order from many online raw providers such as HareToday, and MyPetCarnivore. Many of these sites carry bulk organs as well as balanced commercial grinds. If your ferret is on an imbalanced diet it should only be for a SHORT period, and supplements will need to be added to ensure your ferret is receiving proper nutrition.
Taurine: Taurine is an absolute MUST. Taurine is an essential amino acid for ferrets and cats, meaning that it is absolutely vital for their health (taurine is vital for brain and eye health) but they cannot produce it on their own and must get it from their diet. If you are going to have a period in which your ferret does not get regular heart in his diet, you will need to provide taurine in supplement form. There are many brands of taurine powder available; as long as the only ingredient is taurine it should be safe to feed your ferret. Ferrets should be given 500mg of taurine a day PER ferret – this equates to 1/8tsp of loose taurine or you can simply purchase 500mg or 1000mg capsules and empty the capsule powder into the meal (whole 500mg capsule or half of a 1000mg capsule). Taurine is best given divided between meals, so that would mean for EACH ferret give 250mg taurine per meal.
Bone Replacement: Calcium is another absolutely vital part of your ferret’s diet. While feeding continuous boneless meals, such as during a switch or during a protein trial, it is vital that you provide a bone replacement supplement. Powdered bone meal is the preferable supplement and can be found at many health stores or online. If bone meal is unavailable, powdered eggshell can also be used. The long term effects of feeding powdered eggshell as the only source of dietary calcium is unknown and it is best to switch to bonemeal as early as possible, and even better to introduce bones into the diet as soon as possible.
Organ Replacement: Organs are a very important source of many vital nutrients and vitamins for our little carnivores. If your ferret goes through a period of the protein trial without organs it is best to offer an organ replacement supplement. While a short period without organs may not cause harm, we do not know precisely how long a ferret can go without organs without experiencing a nutrient deficiency. With that in mind, it is best to re-introduce organs into your ferret’s diet within a few weeks. If you expect a prolonged period in which you are unable to give organs, then an organ replacement supplement is an absolute must. Pet G.O. powder is a very good organ replacement supplement. Call of the Wild powder may also suffice in the short term, but does contain plant based ingredients. See below for more on each of these. In extreme cases only, Cod Liver oil can be used as a liver substitute to ensure your ferret does not become Vitamin A deficient but this should only be a very temporary solution, and a last resort. No matter what supplements you chose, nothing ever replaces real organ meat and the sooner your ferret can be returned to a balanced diet containing regular meals of varied organ meats, the better it will be for their overall nutrition.
Other Supplements: Pancreatin: Pancreatin is an enzymatic supplement that may help to pre-digest proteins prior to feeding. Partially breaking down the meat with the enzymes may serve to denature (break apart) the particular protein that your ferret is reacting to and more importantly, it can help to make proteins easier to absorb and digest. This can be very helpful in ferrets in an active flare up as the inflammation will reduce their ability to properly absorb nutrients from their food. Pancreatin is best used by applying the powder to the food 30 min to 1 hour prior to feeding, as this enables the enzymes time to begin the breakdown process. Apply 1/8-1/4 capsule per meal. NOW Foods Pancreatin capsules are a commonly used brand: www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Pancreatine-10X-250-Count/dp/B000776KK0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1426478824&sr=8-1&keywords=pancreatin
Slippery Elm Bark: Slippery Elm Bark works similarly to Carafate - it is a “tummy coater.” Slippery Elm creates a protective coat over the stomach and intestines, enabling the intestinal lining time to heal. It also has soothing properties and can be extremely helpful in an active flare up. However, use Slippery Elm sparingly as the tummy-coating action will also interfere with proper nutrient absorption which can lead to an increased risk of nutrition deficiencies if it is used too frequently. Apply 1/4-1/2 capsule per meal. Nature’s Way Slippery Elm Bark Capsules are a commonly brand used: www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Slippery-Bark-Capsules/dp/B001E1232M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1426478766&sr=8-2&keywords=slippery+elm+bark
Reishi: Reishi is a mushroom that is thought to have strong antioxidant effects that may help fight inflammation. It can help to reduce inflammation and upset in a flare-up. Apply 1/4 capsule per day per ferret. New Chapter LifeSheild Reishi Capsules are the most popular brand used by ferret owners: www.amazon.com/New-Chapter-LifeShield-Reishi-Capsules/dp/B0039LETAY/ref=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8&qid=1426478739&sr=8-26&keywords=reishi
Call of the Wild: COTW is a multivitamin supplement designed by Wysong that contains many vitamins and micronutrients. While it is often recommended as an organ replacement, it does contain some plant-based ingredients and should not be used to replace actual organ and heart meat in your ferret’s raw diet. However, COTW is a great supplement to have on hand, particularly if you have a ferret who suffers from IBD or food allergies. COTW can provide a nutrient boost when your ferret is having an active flare up. During a flare up, the inflammation can reduce nutrient absorption in the gut and COTW may help to “fill in the gaps” by making meals more nutrient dense. In addition, COTW contains probiotics, which may help to rebalance the natural gut flora and improve absorption. Additionally, COTW can be used as a vitamin supplement during a protein trial if you have a period during which your ferret is not getting organ meats. Pet G.O. Powder (see below) is the preferable organ supplement however. Use only as needed as it is possible to overdose on many vitamins. www.wysong.net/products/cotw-dog-cat-supplement.php
Pet G.O. Powder: Pet G.O. Powder is an organ concentrate designed to serve as a replacement supplement for diets lacking in proper organ variety. This powder can be very useful if you are conducting a protein trial and have a period in which you are unable to offer your ferret organ meat. It is vital that a raw diet be properly balanced to avoid nutrient deficiencies. While it is best to get organs back into the rotation as soon as possible, Pet G.O. powder will help to ensure that your ferret is still getting the important nutrients that he needs during the trial. It can also be used to supplement a diet that has organs, but lacks a good variety of organs. For example if your ferret is only eating chicken livers, it would be advisable to add Pet G.O. powder to their diet. Use Pet G.O. Use only as needed as it is possible to overdose on many vitamins. Apply 1/4-1/2tsp per day per ferret. www.mypetsfriend.com/pet-go-4.html
Probiotic Powders: Probiotic bacteria, or the natural gut flora, are important for maintaining gastrointestinal health and function. Anything that throws the intestines off-balances (inflammation from an IBD flare up, a bacterial overgrowth, antibiotics) can contribute to an upset GI tract in your ferret. Supplementing with a probiotic powder during a flare up or illness, or after a course of antibiotics may help in resetting the natural gut balance and restoring proper function. There are many brands of pet probiotic powders available. Read labels carefully and try to stick with brands that are designed for carnivores (cat supplements), have minimal plant-based ingredients, and have minimal additives and preservatives. Many individuals use probios as a regular supplement but this is not necessary if you have a healthy ferret. While daily probiotic powders will not hurt your ferret, all supplements should be considered medications and be used only as needed. Dosage may vary by the brand and formula, but typically ½ capsule per day is sufficient.
Kefir: Many use Kefir as a source of live probiotics. As with powdered probios, using kefir during an upset or after a course of antibiotics may help to reset the gut flora. It is important to find plain, unsweetened, unflavored Kefir. Unlike probiotic powders, kefir should NOT be given as a daily supplement and is reserved for use only when it is truly needed. That said, because of the live nature of the bacteria cultures found in kefir, many find this to be a much more effective supplement than the powdered form of probiotics. Note: Plain, unsweetened yogurt may also be used as a source of live probiotics. However, yogurt is more likely to cause a lactose-related reaction than kefir.
Food Journal: As previously mentioned, it is important to keep track of all aspects of your ferret’s diet and reactions during a protein trial. At first it may seem simple enough to remember what seemed to help or hurt, but as you being to experiment with more new proteins or supplements it becomes easier and easier to lose track. Additionally, keeping a written log can help to make trends over time more apparent. For example, looking back on your log you might be able to recognize that all of your ferret’s reactions occurred after making a sudden switch in proteins, or that your ferret responded best to probiotics plus pancreatin rather than either alone. These little nuances and patterns are difficult to catch over time without a careful log and can go a long ways towards giving you the maximal control over maintaining your ferret’s without medications. Important things to track with EACH MEAL include: • Protein Fed (e.g. pork liver, ground whole chicken, lamb, turkey hearts) • Form of Protein (e.g. soup, ground, whole chunks, whole prey) • Amount Eaten • Supplements Given (with amounts) • Poop Appearance (appearance, color, texture, size, mucous content, blood, etc) • Poop Grade (rate on a scale of 1-5, 1 being horrible, 5 being a perfect poop – this is a subjective rating that will help you score your ferret’s response at a glance when reviewing past logs) • Activity Level • External Stressors (e.g. did your ferret not get out of the cage that day, were you stressed about something and they might have picked up on it, did another ferret get ill or pass away, did you add a new addition to the group, interact with other pets/ferrets/people, did you have to scruff and stuff him to eat, did they get a new toy that he was overly excited about, etc – ANYTHING that can cause stress whether good or bad should be noted here) • Additional Notes (e.g. was he extra itchy today? Do his gums look pale? Did you forget to give meds on time? Anything additional that you feel is notable should be recorded here.)
DISCLAIMER from the author: This article is written based on personal and collective experiences and anecdotal evidence of years of ferret owners with IBD ferrets. Eventually I would like to do more thorough research on each of the individual supplements discussed and provide some hard, scientific evidence for their action in IBD in our carnivores, but in the meanwhile several people have contacted me in regards to elimination diets for their ferrets and I wanted to at least get the information out there for people to see. Additionally, raw diet and holistic are is spurned by many vets and unfortunately kibble companies carry the bulk of the finances where pet nutrition and research is concerned. There is rarely funding available for research on raw diets and holistic supplements for pets. It is ALWAYS advisable to do your own reading and research. Talk to your vet before starting a protein trial – some ferrets’ IBD simply cannot be controlled by diet alone, and your ferret may need to go on a regular dose of prednisolone even with a carefully controlled raw diet.
It's a long but good read. So far, we have not seen any problems with Haru or Yuki. Sometimes though, a protein allergy or intolerance can develop as they age. It's good to know what to do and how to work around the issue for a balanced diet. Hugs to the little ones. I hope they have a blast with their peanuts. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 0:44:00 GMT -5
I got a reply back regarding the crocodile rips. They said they're generally around 20cm long and 10cm wide and can be cut down to size.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 1:56:32 GMT -5
I love love love to read. Butterfly gardens are fun because you can use native plants that are nice and hardy.You put the nectar plants out and see what shows up.Then you put our the specific plants that the catepillar eats. Each type has a different host plant.Then you try to entice exotic butterflies by putting out their host plants.We bought two houses on the same street (not at the same time). By the time we left our neighborhood was full of butterflies.That would have been wonderful to see a neighbourhood full of butterflies~ There's so many pretty ones and having a big variety in the garden is very smart since different butterflies are attracted to different colours. I remember when I went to the zoo once before and they had a butterfly place. I was wearing a red shirt and lots of butterflies landed on me >3< That's good info, thanks for finding that. Over here, we call someone young a Spring Chicken. You would be a spring chicken, I would not. Squab does sound unappealing. Squab Squab Squab, it's fun to say though. Had you seen that TV show, Two and a Half men?
Cluck cluck~ haha! Squab also sounds like it could be a slang word. OH yes, I've seen it~ We all do that with organs. I don't know why it seems so confusing but it really does. Part of the reason is that it is written in different way, in different threads. We're working on finding old threads and editing them to read the same way.
Ferret Math in a different form ahhaha Finding old threads and editing sounds so time consuming, why not just have it in the one place like as a sticky like you do with other useful things~ ^u^ Hypo allergenic is the right word. I am going to post an explanation on a Protein Trial Elimination Diet at the end of this post, for Today's lesson. It will talk about which meats are not common problems and which are.
Fantastic! That's good. Crocs and Gators are so prehistoric looking and scarey.We went canoeing once in a spring that had gators and snakes (not my idea). The canoe tipped and I have never been so frightened. I don't scare easy, but Paul said that he had never seen me move so fast, to get out of that water.I would have done the same. ;A; I probably wouldn't dare go anywhere near the water to begin with. (Paranoid about big creatures with sharp teeth who swim in water) Oh and I forgot to answer that you do want to avoid saltwater fish and creatures.Some say it's okay, but I don't think it is a good idea.I was intrigued and decided t do some research on the meat. I found out that they don't really use freshwater crocs for meat consumption since the skin isn't as valuable as a salty. Since the numbers of Salty crocs are declining they use farms to produce crocs for meat. I found this and thought I would share it. Compared to the others, Crocodile meats is low in fat but has a higher amount in protein than chicken breast. I never knew that but anyway since it doesn't seem to have alot of fat, it wouldn't be a very good choice for meat to feed ferrets, does it? Here's some good information. www.australiancrocodile.com.au/Meatsomg. "Crocodile is a meat with a difference, with its distinctive white colour and has some similarities in taste to chicken and frog legs." They will have so much fun with those. Packing peanuts are a great toy.Did you get the Cornstarch ones and not the Styrofoam peanuts? You don't want them to inadvertently or on purpose eat a styrofoam peanut.If you ordered from a pet site, they will be cornstarch peanuts.I'm not sure. My roommate ordered them. ;A; I just checked with her and she said they're 100% Biodegradable, Environmentally Friendly, Compostable & Water Soluble. Okay I did some research based on the brand she told me. "Bio-Fill is a corn starch based void filling foam peanut." Ferrets always have Need to go where they aren't allowed. Even in my house, where only one inside door and of course, the outside door are off limits, they spend alot of time and attention trying to get thru those doors. Juliet will scratch and scratch at the carpet. I had to slide a plastic lid under the door, to save the carpet.
We had the problem with carpet digging too. Especially with our main off limits bathroom. I put a mat down and eventually they lost interest. I need to buy more mats, especially for the front of the kitchen. Ok, let's talk about a Protein Elimination trial. This was written by Hurricanekatt.
Okay! ^^ It's a long but good read. So far, we have not seen any problems with Haru or Yuki.Sometimes though, a protein allergy or intolerance can develop as they age.It's good to know what to do and how to work around the issue for a balanced diet.It was a very long read. It was quite amazing information as well. Not only has it got a step by step guide, but it also explains about the meats in detail. I wasn't aware on parasites and such in meat. I might do some research and check up on anything for my area just incase. I might print this out. It would be good to keep it in my ferret folder~ ^^ Hugs to the little ones. I hope they have a blast with their peanuts.:wave3:They're just about ready to come out to play:: It was very cold last night so I put an extra blanket on them so that they could be nice and cozy. They're such little cuties. >3< They should be getting their tunnel and other toys soon in the mail. That should keep them busy and have alot more fun at playtime~
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