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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 13:02:04 GMT -5
I never got back to sleep last night. It's raining here and I may try to nap.It was raining over here earlier also! It's quite cold at the moment. Good luck with your nap, hopefully the rain will help~ ^^ Girls usually rule. Everyone told me that when I got my first female Juliet and they were right. I don't think I've seen anyone on the forum with a alpha male, if there was a female in their business.
They're so innocent looking and so adorable but they can be feisty~ Haru was the one who was putting Yuki in his place from the very beginning. She used to grab him by the scruff (this as before he got hyper and she was finally like "pfft, I cannot be bothered with you at for now. But if you bite me, I'll bite you right back twice as hard~ >3<" Such tough cookies. Yuki is a climber, you're in for some fun. It's great for his shoulder muscles and scarey for ferrets. He will also most likely teach Haru to climb.
Oh yes indeed. Haru's already starting to climb as well. She finally climbed the couch in the ferret room last night. She tried for a while but now she's finally gotten enough strength to climb it. ^^ I have found Ponce on the top shelf of my ten foot high closet. I found Mika in the garbage covered in spaghetti and Roamy began climbing curtains. Some will even push something closer and then jump on it to climb over something.
ten foot high?! Brave Ponce! (I've always thought that it sounds like a cute name~ How do you pronounce it? In my head it sounds like Pon-key, but I could be wrong. Still cute!) Oh my my, That would have been a sight~ Ferrets are such fun creatures >3< I bought some inexpensive towels a bath rug. Mine climb up and into the tubs to play. It's great exercise for their shoulder muscles.I would do that, but bathroom's are off limits (well our main one which has the bath. My roommate's room which is their favourite room to play, has a walk in wardrobe with a small bathroom.) Laundry room is also off limits, along with the kitchen which Haru got herself into mischief At bathtime (or simply soak time), Yuki would enjoy the warm water and then when he's had enough he would literally get out of the bath. He must have such strong muscles now since he never used to be able to get out without assistance. You might want to keep toilet seats down and a lid on your trash cans. Make sure that they can't get anywhere near an open window, even with a screen.
Toilet seats are always down. ^^ I'm the kind of person who gets irritated when we have guests over and they leave seats up "Put the seats down!" x 1000 times. All windows are closed when ferrets are out for play~ We have some high up windows like in our kitchen that we could leave open, but choose not to anyway. Ferretone is controversial because it has BTA's and BHA's which are cancer causing agents.Olive oil is plant based, so I prefer to use Wild Grizzly Salmon oil. It has a strong smell and I had to mix in some olive oil with the salmon oil at first, and then began reducing the olive oil until the olive oil was all gone and they were eating all salmon oil.Oh, I was unaware of BTA's & BHA's. I will do some research on that now. I think I'm becoming more and more aware with what I give to my ferrets since I got them. I will have to try some salmon oil ^^ At the moment it seems that I'm only finding capsuled salmon oil but I got the ferretone from the U.S so I'm sure I could get some Wild Grizzly Salmon oil if I fail to find it here ^^ Are there any health benefits for it and roughly how much per day or as a treat? I'm numerically challenged also. I can convert grams to ounces on the computer, so don't worry about converting. Their weights must be off. Does your scale have a button for grams and pounds?I was thinking they were off also. I was playing around with the scales and figured out how to change grams to what says 'lb:oz' Here's a picture. I tried test weighing some cans off soup. The cans are 420g each and one showed up as 485g (probably because of he actual can wight as well) I might try re-weighing them tomorrow. I'm also going to try using another container for them to sit in. (Found another one which is much easier compared to the bigger one) ^^ Haru at 65.6 grams would be 2.3 ounces That's around the size of two or three chicken heartsYuki at 124.7 grams would 4.3 ounes. That's about a half a chicken thigh.Oh my oh my, Haru is as small as a couple of chicken hearts and Yuki is half a chicken thigh.>3< (kidding kidding) I have a feeling it was because of the bowl I used. I'll see how the weigh in tomorrow turns out. Something is off. I checked a few times on the conversion table, but I'll have Paul take a look also.A grown female will weigh around 907 grams. A grown boy might be 1360 grams.If you have a can of something and it shows the weight on it, try weighing that. That will give you a way to calibrate your scale and get a good reading.Agreed, It doesn't sound right. I thought it was too light. They're small, But not that small ahaha! I might read the instructions for the scales over again also and see if there's anything I missed. They did amazing on eating their soupie. Soupie can be left out for 6-8 hours. Try leaving a plate out and see if they finish it up. I did leave it out and when I checked in just before, all the soupie was gone! >3< The next batch that you make, add some tiny sliver(with fat) to their soup. See if they munch on those.I'll use some chicken thighs and stick the slivers in the morning soupie.It will surely go well. They're such good little kits (I was going to say kids, but technically they are still considerd kits until 1 year of age, right?) I had a whole monologue on coaxing them to eat soupies. Happily, I won't need to use it. (dance)What good fuzzies, They get special hugs today.They couldn't resist the soupies. Are some ferrets reluctant to try even soupies? I forgot to mention I bought those cute little baby spoons. They came in pink, blue and yellows, etc. I was going to use them (I think that was part of the coaxing plan? hehe), but they were eating so well by themselves. I've spoon fed them before too and they've done it with flying colours, and sparkles, lots of sparkles~ They've been well behaved today, so lots of special hugs for them~
They cannot catch our colds? Like as in the common cold? I read that they could catch human colds and its best to avoid handling/being around ferrets while with a cold. This topic is very intriguing. I was very surprised when I heard about ferrets being able to catch a flu from a human. So the two organs would be on in the morning and one at night sort of thing. Is kidney's a good choice to go with liver? Like for example, the cow kidney I pick up today. Would cutting it up to the required size be okay, or would it be better for them to eat the entire kidney if it were from poultry? Sounds good ^u^ I can't tell you how happy that I am, with you and your Yuki and Haru. :wave3:Yay! Thank you! I'm happy that I'm learning the right things for them~ They're doing great, little super stars >3<
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 15:02:15 GMT -5
They're so innocent looking and so adorable but they can be feisty~They really are adorable. Here in the States, the black footed ferret almost went extinct. Their main diet was prairie dogs. The PD's were decimated by farmers and a virus. So, our wild blackfooted ferrt population dwindled down to just a few dozen found in a burrow, in the 1980's. We have groundogs in our yard. One time Roamy got outside. He went to hide in the groundhog hole and we didn't see any groundhogs for a week. Ferrets can be fierce. They did amazing on eating their soupie. Soupie can be left out for 6-8 hours Good. I find that mine like to eat at different times, so food is alway out. If they finish their plate, then can eat more. If they leave food on the plate, the they are full. They will eat more now to make up for lost nutrients Are some ferrets reluctant to try even soupies? Ferrets imprint on their food around six months to a year old. So, yes some ferrents can be very stubborn and simply don't recognize new food as food. That's why having you close by during feed time is important. They trust you. Hang on to those spoons. When we get to the Frankenprey and begin introducing new proteins, the spoons will come in handy. Also, if they don't like slivers in their soup, we'll talk about spoon feeding. [/b] They cannot catch our colds? No, lucky for us and them. The flu is different and if you come up with the flu, you'll want to quarantine yourself. Do you mean an organ meal in the morning and then one in the evening?
Organ poops are going to be loose and messy. So, I do an organ meal on Monday, a heart meal on Wednesday and a Heart/organ plus other organ on Saturday for their a.m. meal Then follow that up with a bone in p.m. meal. You can configure your menu to what works best for your schedule. But, I wouldn't feed two organs meals in one day. Organs are rich and might upset their tummy, plus you'll get alot of loose poops, loose poops can lead to a prolapse of the anus. As for other Organ; Organs are defined as secreting organs. Kidney, thymus, spleen, pancreas and brains. Mine love pork brains. You said they are expensive over there. They are super cheap here. A tub of brains is only about $2 American dollars. Is kidney's a good choice to go with liver? Like for example, the cow kidney I pick up today. Would cutting it up to the required size be okay, or would it be better for them to eat the entire kidney if it were from poultry.
After I go shopping, I prep their meals. I weigh enough organs and heart to count up to feeding five ferrets. Kidney is fine and remember, you can get pork kidney, lamb kidney, goat kidney etc... That goes into a baggie and then into a freezer bin. I just eye the muscle meats and Bone In meats. This is my freezer. We have a second one in the laundry room and that's where all their food and ferret supplies are. It's also our tornado room, so everything is there to ride out a storm.
Okay, ready for a small quiz on Liver. Answer it without looking at the post and then you can look and see if you're correct. Having to think about it first, will make it stick better.
1. Is Liver water soluable or fat soluable? 2. What vitamin is found in Liver 3. Based on Yuki eating 3 grams a day, how many grams of Liver will Yuki get in a weekly menu.
Ponce sounds like Pawns. He was name for the Spanish Explorer, Ponce de Leon. He discovered St. Augustine Fl in hopes of finding the fountain of eternal youth. Later I found out that in England, it's a old slang term for a pimp.
No nap today, but I'm dragging so I'll probably hang out and read. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 1:27:10 GMT -5
They really are adorable. Here in the States, the black footed ferret almost went extinct.Their main diet was prairie dogs. The PD's were decimated by farmers and a virus.So, our wild blackfooted ferrt population dwindled down to just a few dozen found in a burrow, in the 1980's.Oh yes, I read about that! They thought they went extinct in the wild but luckily were brought back in captivity before some were released. Its so sad that there are so many species that are at the risk of being wiped from this beautiful world. ;n; We have groundogs in our yard. One time Roamy got outside. He went to hide in the groundhog hole and we didn't see any groundhogs for a week.Ferrets can be fierce.ooh~ We don't have groundhogs here. We have rabbits though, lots and lots of rabbits hahaha. >3< Roamy must have scared them off. Poor little groundhogs must have been terrified! Good. I find that mine like to eat at different times, so food is alway out.If they finish their plate, then can eat more. If they leave food on the plate, the they are full.They will eat more now to make up for lost nutrientsI noticed that with Haru and Yuki also. I tried leaving the soupie in but Yuki ended up eating Haru's share so I had to get her some more. >3< I was giving them 1 block of soupie each but I think I should double it since they seem to be eating more. Ferrets imprint on their food around six months to a year old.No wonder I got Yuki eating meat as soon as he came home. He was 6 months when I got him, whereas Haru was 8 months and Imprinting is probably playing a role with her stubbornness to eat certain things. Hang on to those spoons. When we get to the Frankenprey and begin introducing new proteins, the spoons will come in handy.Oh yay! They'll love that! Also, if they don't like slivers in their soup, we'll talk about spoon feeding.I'm thinking Haru may be reluctant with slivers, but we shall see tonight. (Since I forgot to leave some thigh in the fridge, ended up frozen. Sigh.) They cannot catch our colds? No, lucky for us and them. The flu is different and if you come up with the flu, you'll want to quarantine yourself.I rarely get the flu, but the common cold happens every couple of months for a short time at least. the flu is nasty, I would never want them to catch it. It must be a whole lot worse for their little bodies. Organ poops are going to be loose and messy. So, I do an organ meal on Monday, a heart meal on Wednesday and a Heart/organ plus other organ on Saturday for their a.m. mealI've noticed that and slightly smelly. Then follow that up with a bone in p.m. meal. You can configure your menu to what works best for your schedule. But, I wouldn't feed two organs meals in one day. Organs are rich and might upset their tummy, plus you'll get alot of loose poops, loose poops can lead to a prolapse of the anus.
I heard about having the bone-in meat after organ meal to help the poop become firmer. So Organ in the morning and something like chicken necks at night? ^^ I never knew loose poops could do that. Another interesting thing learnt ^u^ As for other Organ; Organs are defined as secreting organs. Kidney, thymus, spleen, pancreas and brains. Mine love pork brains. You said they are expensive over there. They are super cheap here. A tub of brains is only about $2 American dollars.I've managed to find Kidney and Pancreas (though I did not pick up any pancreas yesterday). Yep, Brains are hard to get especially in my area. I might ask around some butchers in the next town and enquire on if I can get any ordered in and for a good price. Though My current supermarket can easily get me some things ordered in, So Maybe I should ask on if they could get pork brains, otherwise I'm sure I could get them somewhere else eventually. ^^ I have yet to find Thymus or spleen. I will note them so I can ask next time I'm in town. After I go shopping, I prep their meals. I weigh enough organs and heart to count up to feeding five ferrets. Kidney is fine and remember, you can get pork kidney, lamb kidney, goat kidney etc...That goes into a baggie and then into a freezer bin. I just eye the muscle meats and Bone In meats.Okay great! The ferrets are yet to try Pork and Goat, so I might get some next shopping trip ^u^ This is my freezer. We have a second one in the laundry room and that's where all their food and ferret supplies are. It's also our tornado room, so everything is there to ride out a storm.
Thats a super smart Idea! I was starting to build up on buying containers for their meals. Containers can be pricey here unfortunately so I cannot buy like 5-10 in one hit. But I managed to buy 3 the other day. Its the start! ^u^ Lucky for us we don't get severe storms like tornadoes. However we get bush fires and even firestorms depending on areas. So we have to be prepared for emergencies like evacuating etc. Okay, ready for a small quiz on Liver. Answer it without looking at the post and then you can look and see if you're correct. Having to think about it first, will make it stick better.
Liver is fat soluble ^^ Vitamin A ^^ Okay, Math time! Did you mean ounce? You mentioned earlier that the average male eats around 3-4 ounces per day. 1 ounce equals to around 28grams. (used my app for that one ) That would mean that he would be eating 84 grams per day for 3 ounces. For a week, 84 grams for 7 days would be 588 grams. The liver can vary in size and weight also. From my last liver weigh in, he would be eating 29 grams of liver on one day and then 7 or so grams (1/4) of liver another day. So... roughly, he would have 36grams of liver in his weekly menu. I hope that was right. I did alot of calculating, almost confused myself but I think i did it right... right? Ponce sounds like Pawns. He was name for the Spanish Explorer, Ponce de Leon. He discovered St. Augustine Fl in hopes of finding the fountain of eternal youth.Later I found out that in England, it's a old slang term for a pimp. OH, and I had a big feeling I was pronouncing his name incorrectly. >3< What a lovely name- PIMP?, omg, These days theres literally a slang word for everything. No nap today, but I'm dragging so I'll probably hang out and read.Naps are great, but then again, so is reading. I was up a few nights ago and ended up reading until 4 in the morning. Nothing beats a good book, Unless its a happy ferret of course because I don't mind not reading just to see them jumping around the room >3<
I was going to reply this morning, had it all typed up and everything but I had an appointment to attend- which unfortunately didn't go all to well (so sad day). So when I got home, i was feeling down and went to check on the fuzzies. Seeing their sleepy faces instantly cheered me up >3< Now onto what I should have said this morning. I gave them soup in the morning. Haru could only eat up to 1 thawed out cube which weighed in at 27grams before she went off to sleep. Yuki managed to eat 2 thawed out soupie cubes (54grams). I think Yuki would easily manage 4 ounces a day. I might try them on alittle bit of soupie now with the slivers like you mentioned. I cut some chicken defrosted thigh up and its all ready to go. I let the frozen soup cubes (in a container) sit in some warm water and they seem to be ready as well! (This time I put 3 cubes, so 81grams there between the two of them.)
This morning I came to realise, they decided to change the designated poop corner. ;A; Here's the poopie pic~ I cannot be sure who's poop is who. But I think the larger one would be Yuki's since he ate alot this morning compared to Haru. So the smaller dark brown on would have to be Haru's poop.
Oh and I weighed them again. I managed to change the scale setting from grams to 'lb:oz' However I'm not sure how to read the outcome. Yuki was '3:0.1 lb:oz' Haru was '1:11.1 lb:oz' Thats how it came up when they finally were still for a few seconds. I think it means 3: is ib and the 0.1 is oz. I'm not exactly sure how to convert it either. Okay update: I found this website and tried converting what i got for Yuki. www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/cclboz.htmAnd I also did Haru's. Does that appear more accurate?
I got distracted again. I fed them the soup and Yuki ate alot! Haru also ate a fair amount as well! She ate 2 slivers of chicken thigh. At first she seemed reluctant and only licked it a couple of times. Yuki on the other hand probably ate at least 4 slivers and stashed one more on the second level. Haru eventually started to eat the slivers and now both of them seemed satisfied and happy after filling their bellies >3< Thats all for now~
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 1:29:24 GMT -5
OH also! I noticed today that Yuki has less yellow in his fur. Does their diet also contribute with how much oils their skin produced or would it be hormonal since he's still an intact male?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 16:22:04 GMT -5
I was giving them 1 block of soupie each but I think I should double it since they seem to be eating more. I see that farther down, you did give them more soupie. They both ate very well.
I'm thinking Haru may be reluctant with slivers, but we shall see tonight. (Since I forgot to leave some thigh in the fridge, ended up frozen. Sigh.)
Some ferrents use a vegetable peeler on a slightly frozen piece of meat. I haven't tried that because mine don't like cold food.
If Haru is reluctant to eat slivers, here is where coaxing and persistence makes all the difference.
Farther down, it looks like the slivers went over quite nicely. That's really great! My Wynstan loves for me to hold him at the sink. Then I pick up a long sliver and run it under warm water and offer it to him. He takes it and runs off, very pleased with his treasure.
Yep, Brains are hard to get especially in my area[/b
I find tubs of brains in my freezer section. I don't know what people do with them but my little guys love them. They also have them in cans, but look at the ingredients. They add other things to them, like salt. Stay away from the canned brains.
Oh and I weighed them again. I managed to change the scale setting from grams to 'lb:oz' However I'm not sure how to read the outcome. Yuki was '3:0.1 lb:oz' Haru was '1:11.1 lb:oz'
Okay, those look like good weights. Yuki is a nice big boy and Haru is right where she should be. Their weight will drop in the springtime. Soon, they will start to look leaner and more muscular, as they lose the kibble fat and replace it with muscle.
I cannot be sure who's poop is who. But I think the larger one would be Yuki's since he ate alot this morning compared to Haru. So the smaller dark brown on would have to be Haru's poop
Both poops look nice and normal. They will be detoxing from kibble, so you can expect some odd poops. Raw poops are nice and small and much less smelly.
Yuki on the other hand probably ate at least 4 slivers and stashed one more on the second level.
Yuki is making "jerkified" chicken. It's a great delicacy for ferrets. My first Mentee Bella coined the phrase and I just love it. They will stash those pieces and happily eat them 3 or 4 days later. I do stash/poop patrol every day and they still find places to surprise me. The worst was when they began stashing food under my bed. I was laying in bed one night and kept smelling something icky. So, I got down and looked under the bed and found this huge pile of jerkified chicken and quail. It was so gross.
You did great on your quiz! a solid A I did mess up saying 3 grams, I just have to get use to using grams. So, you are right 3 ounces is 85 grams 85 x 7 = 588 Five percent of 588 = 29.4 grams. One small note, Liver is Five percent total of their weekly menu. So, the 29.4 grams is correct. You just overthought it and put another 1/4 in. We want to be careful with liver, but honestly, it's not an exact science. Unless you were to sit with them, measure each gram and feed it to them. In the wild, they don't have a scale and go "woops, I'm at 6 percent". lol
Hopefully, that's the last math question that I ask you. Math makes my stomach hurt, but my husband is a math whiz and checks my numbers.
OH also! I noticed today that Yuki has less yellow in his fur. Does their diet also contribute with how much oils their skin produced or would it be hormonal since he's still an intact male?
The yellow is their natural oils that help to promote new hair growth. If you're coming close to the end of your winter, he will begin shedding his winter coat. Ferrets fur is comprised of a bottom coat, which is cream or white. Their top fur are their guard hairs and that is what makes up their color and pattern. You see more color and pattern in their light weight summer fur and thicker, less colorful fur in their heavier winter coats. From what I understand Hobs can be greasy little fellows. I don't have intact males. Unless you buy from a breeder, ours are all descented and desexed.
There is a theory running around that the dye that is injected into chickens can yellow their fur. With my two white girls, I see the yellow in the beginning of the spring and the beginning of the winter.
Great job all around. Tell Yuki and Haru they get a gold star and so does their Mom. And no quiz today. (dance) :thumbsup:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 3:49:28 GMT -5
Some ferrents use a vegetable peeler on a slightly frozen piece of meat. I haven't tried that because mine don't like cold food.Sometimes I let the meat defrost alittle and then cut it. I find that if its alittle frozen it cuts better. Then I let them sit (in a container) ontop of some warm water until they go to room temprature. Since its winter (and very cold at the moment) It's better to have them room temp or slightly warm. However I'm yet to try them with slightly warm soupie. If Haru is reluctant to eat slivers, here is where coaxing and persistence makes all the difference.
This morning she seemed to be eating more slivers, which is a great sign~ Farther down, it looks like the slivers went over quite nicely. That's really great!My Wynstan loves for me to hold him at the sink. Then I pick up a long sliver and run it under warm water and offer it to him. He takes it and runs off, very pleased with his treasure.Thats super adorable! This morning Yuki ate some slivers at the bowl and then grabbed a third one and ran off to the second level. I was expecting him to stash and run back but he decided he'll just eat in that corner litter tray. Privacy in his bathroom. >3< (In aus, we call toilet rooms, bathrooms as well even if theres no bath. hahah!) I find tubs of brains in my freezer section. I don't know what people do with them but my little guys love them. They also have them in cans, but look at the ingredients. They add other things to them, like salt. Stay away from the canned brains.I checked our freezer sections last time and had no luck. I couldn't even find Quail. Sometimes they have quail there. Lucky! We don't have canned brains. I swear I've never seen one, ever. Fresh is always the best choice compared to canned or dryfood. ^^ Okay, those look like good weights. Yuki is a nice big boy and Haru is right where she should be.Their weight will drop in the springtime.Fantastic! How often should they be weighed? Once a month? Soon, they will start to look leaner and more muscular, as they lose the kibble fat and replace it with muscle.Healthy~ How long does 'kibble fat' stay in their bodies? They weren't fed kibble much since I brought them home. But the breeder was feeding them cheap unhealthy cat kibble, and if thats the case then its a good thing they lose all the yuckies in their bodies.>3< Both poops look nice and normal. They will be detoxing from kibble, so you can expect some odd poops. Raw poops are nice and small and much less smelly. I noted that on my exercise book ^^ Yuki is making "jerkified" chicken. It's a great delicacy for ferrets. My first Mentee Bella coined the phrase and I just love it. They will stash those pieces and happily eat them 3 or 4 days later.I do stash/poop patrol every day and they still find places to surprise me.The worst was when they began stashing food under my bed. I was laying in bed one night and kept smelling something icky. So, I got down and looked under the bed and found this huge pile of jerkified chicken and quail. It was so gross. They love my roommates bed (entire room as well) so the first 2 weeks they were here, they both stashed some mince that we didn't realise was there until the smell got smelly Ferrets are so smart. I know alot of their stash spots but when I was playing with Yuki the other day, he ran off and hid his toy. I was searching everywhere for Yuki's favorite teaser toy (which was no where to be seen) and I had to call my roommate to ask if she'd placed it somewhere. (which she had not). After about 3 hours searching, I eventually found it stashed under the couch cushion. I did mess up saying 3 grams, I just have to get use to using grams. So, you are rightI don't mind if you use ounces. ^^ 3 ounces is 85 grams85 x 7 = 588Five percent of 588 = 29.4 grams.One small note, Liver is Five percent total of their weekly menu.So, the 29.4 grams is correct. You just overthought it and put another 1/4 in.We want to be careful with liver, but honestly, it's not an exact science. Unless you were to sit with them, measure each gram and feed it to them. What should I do if I weight a liver and don't get exactly 29.4 grams? Should I cut more to increase it or decrease it until its 29.4? Hopefully, that's the last math question that I ask you. Math makes my stomach hurt, but my husband is a math whiz and checks my numbers.
Math is torture, But I don't mind it for the ferrets well being >3< lucky you! No one in my house is a math whiz. The yellow is their natural oils that help to promote new hair growth. If you're coming close to the end of your winter, he will begin shedding his winter coat.We're in the middle of winter. It ends in august so bring on the shedding! Ferrets fur is comprised of a bottom coat, which is cream or white.Apparently Albino fur is transparent, But he does appear to be cream. Haru's bottom coat is a lovely cream colour. Their top fur are their guard hairs and that is what makes up their color and pattern. You see more color and pattern in their light weight summer fur and thicker, less colorful fur in their heavier winter coats. 4 weeks ago, Haru was had lighter coloured Guard hairs, now they seem darker. I got her at the start of winter and have already seen alot of colour changes in her coat >3< Its so intriguing. From what I understand Hobs can be greasy little fellows. I don't have intact males. Unless you buy from a breeder, ours are all descented and desexed.I got mine from a breeder and decided to have both desexed. We had Haru done since she was first priority, but at the moment we're getting Yuki done later on down the track. Probably next month. Ferrets aren't descented here. I think its illegal or just simply rarely done. I don't think they need it done anyway ^^ There is a theory running around that the dye that is injected into chickens can yellow their fur. With my two white girls, I see the yellow in the beginning of the spring and the beginning of the winter.
Actual colour dye? Thats a first I've heard I heard that some places inject their chickens with drugs and such but over here we're quite struct and alot of the chicken farms are getting cracked down on. More and more supermarkets are stocking up on drug-free chicken.
This morning and tonight, I put alittle more slivers and alittle less soupie and they both were eating very well. No problems with the slivers. ^^ I also hand fed Haru a sliver when she was out later on. (I started writing this in the morning but got distracted again.) Yuki & Haru got lots of cuddles today as well! They were both well behaved. >3< Yuki's poop this morning was similar to the last photo I posted and tonight its now a dark brown, slightly loose but not runny. Haru's has been light brown, smooth consistency, all day. Oh~ That new cage is coming early for them~ Yay for easier access for cleaning.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 10:08:27 GMT -5
Sometimes I let the meat defrost alittle and then cut it. I find that if its alittle frozen it cuts better. Then I let them sit (in a container) ontop of some warm water until they go to room temprature. Since its winter (and very cold at the moment) It's better to have them room temp or slightly warm. However I'm yet to try them with slightly warm soupie.
That's a good idea. I don't like to make their food too warm. I'm afraid it will turn quicker. I can't imagine Australia getting cold. I know it's such a big place, so like us, you must have different regions with different weather. I'll have to learn a little more about Australia. I'd love to see it some day. Years ago, I read a book called "A town like Alice", do you know that one? That book and the movie Crocodile Dundee formed most of what I know. That and a Pilot that I worked with, who flew regularly into Sydney. This morning she seemed to be eating more slivers, which is a great sign~
Haru is a good girl. Try making the slivers just a bit bigger now. Once the girls are eating slivers happily, we will begin reducing the amount of soup. They love my roommates bed (entire room as well) so the first 2 weeks they were here, they both stashed some mince that we didn't realise was there until the smell got smelly Ferrets are so smart. I know alot of their stash spots but when I was playing with Yuki the other day, he ran off and hid his toy. I was searching everywhere for Yuki's favorite teaser toy (which was no where to be seen) and I had to call my roommate to ask if she'd placed it somewhere. (which she had not). After about 3 hours searching, I eventually found it stashed under the couch cushion.
That's so cute and very polite of them not to use your bed. (giggle) They are ridiculously smart. Wynstan loves to stash his treasures in Paul's shoes. I keep telling Paul to keep them up, but he doesn't listen. I think Paul is secretly flattered. Wynstan is a Daddy's boy. A feeding den might be nice for Yuki. Have you seen those on the forum? holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4544/feeding-den-setupsI tried it with mine, but they rarely eat at the same time or together. I put two plates out and they will eat from different plates but never all at the same time. Like your blue and yellow plates. What should I do if I weight a liver and don't get exactly 29.4 grams? Should I cut more to increase it or decrease it until its 29.4?
We're aiming for five percent over the two meals, per ferret. You could cut it down some, but like I said before, it's not an exact science, we simply don't want to overload their system. 4 weeks ago, Haru was had lighter coloured Guard hairs, now they seem darker. I got her at the start of winter and have already seen alot of colour changes in her coat >3< Its so intriguing.
I find the whole color change fascinating. With my first ferret Ponce, he was a lovely champagne. We lived in Florida and didn't have seasons, it was just hot. I never noticed color changes on him and didn't know to look for them. Then I found the forum and was amazed at how different their colors can become. Both of my white girls, Juliet and Keller have some silver on their tails, more in spring and less in the winter. I've seen some pictures here of remarkable changes. I got mine from a breeder and decided to have both desexed. We had Haru done since she was first priority, but at the moment we're getting Yuki done later on down the track. Probably next month. Ferrets aren't descented here. I think its illegal or just simply rarely done. I don't think they need it done anyway
I think Heather mentioned that descenting is illegal in other places. She is a breeder and has talked about how greasy hobs can be. I'd love to smell a poof and see a full intact hob. When we go on vacation, mine will stay with a breeder at her ferret camp. I'm hoping she will have a few intact males. Last year, I got to see the babies, but no grown males. Actual colour dye? Thats a first I've heard I heard that some places inject their chickens with drugs and such but over here we're quite struct and alot of the chicken farms are getting cracked down on. More and more supermarkets are stocking up on drug-free chicken.
I know, the stuff that they put in our food is scarey sometimes. Bitbyter has a little girl ferret who has severe issues with any of that stuff. He has to search out free range, hormone free, antibiotic free chickens and they cost much more. He's in Canada, I doubt I could find what he finds. Yuki & Haru got lots of cuddles today as well! They were both well behaved. >3< Yuki's poop this morning was similar to the last photo I posted and tonight its now a dark brown, slightly loose but not runny. Haru's has been light brown, smooth consistency, all day.
Oh~ That new cage is coming early for them~ Yay for easier access for cleaning.
Cuddles and good poop plus a nice new cage...it doesn't get better than that, lol. We're all such crazy ferret people and it makes me so happy. Okay, today's lesson will be on bacteria. You will find that people ask you about feeding raw and then ask about E coli and Salmonella. Vets often will ask, because they learn in school from studies that are funded from pet food companies. So, it's nice to have answers for those who frown on raw feeding: The Question Of Bacteria When Feeding Raw Original Source: www.carnivora.ca/html/learning_centre/the_question_of_bacteria/index.cfm
When it comes to feeding pets, what could be more natural for carnivores than a raw meaty diet? And yet, there’s nothing quite as controversial as raw pet diets! If you are like most people, you probably believe that anything other than kibble or canned pet food is unsuitable, perhaps even dangerous, for dogs and cats and ferrets. What you may not know is that the pet food industry has only been around for less than one hundred years, whereas carnivores have been thriving and reproducing on raw foods for many, many thousands of years. All foods have some degree of risk. The question isn’t whether risk exists. Raw meat can be contaminated with bacteria; however, kibble can also contain disease-causing molds and other pathogens. Aflatoxin contamination of dog kibble has resulted in hundreds of sick pets and even death. As well, there are case reports of pathogens found in commercially produced dog food and in dog treats such as rawhide, pig ears, jerky, and chew hooves.
It is a basic premise of natural science that dogs and cats, like all other creatures are provided with all the materials and conditions required to maintain health. Dogs and cats and ferrets evolved to eat bacteria in their food and from other sources in the environment. They eat soil, contaminated meat, and buried carcasses and bones. Dogs being naturally coprophagic enjoy eating the feces of many different animals and much to their owner’s disgust, sometimes their own. Consider that many dogs use the kitty litter box as a snack try without adverse effects. Domestic dogs and cats scavenge and sniff around in all sorts of 'unhygienic' places. Not only that, they continue the ancient ritual of licking mouths, and genitals; both their own and those of others of their species. Each one of these anatomical areas is a source of bacteria. So, no matter what the diet, by licking its "private parts", your dog or cat or ferret is consuming bacteria.
Protective Activities of the Digestive System There are a number of factors that prevent pathogenic bacteria from taking a foothold in the dog, ferret or cat’s body. The first defense is saliva which kills bacteria entering with the food. Saliva is often referred to as a gatekeeper because of its protective role against harmful pathogens. The stomach is highly acid (pH 1-2) and contains strong hydrochloric acid (HCL). HCL creates the right pH for enzymes to work efficiently and it kills bacteria that have escaped the protective enzymes in the saliva. Bacteria that survive the high acid content of the stomach then pass into the small intestine.
Compared to the stomach, the small intestine is a relatively hospitable environment. The first section of the small intestine is called the duodenum. The pancreas and liver deposit their digestive enzymes, bicarbonate and bile salts, respectively, in this part of the small intestine. The digestive enzymes from the pancreas digest the cells walls of harmful bacteria. The bile salts from the liver are primarily used for fat digestion and transportation and also potent antimicrobial agents. In addition, lysozyme is secreted by cells that line the digestive tract. Lysozyme is a potent enzyme that attacks bacterial cell walls, and is believed to be another primary control preventing bacterial overgrowth in the upper gastrointestinal tract.
Bacteria that are able to survive need to be able to stick to the lining of the intestinal wall. To hold on they must contain adhering proteins, have their own means of locomotion, and be able to multiply rapidly enough to overcome the forward peristaltic movements of the small intestine. Bacteria that fail to meet the criteria for attachment, motility and propagation will pass on into the fecal matter and into the large intestine. The large intestine collects and processes undigested material that passes through the small intestine. The bacterial population of the large intestines is much greater than that found in the small intestine, with a higher number of gram-negative bacteria. These bacteria are very important to normal large intestinal physiology.
Normal Flora The term "normal flora" implies that bacteria exist within the animal body symbiotically and generally cause no harm. Each dog or cat or ferret's diet, environment, body chemistry, and immune system influence their particular floral balance. The intestinal flora is relatively stable and maintains fairly constant numbers and types of bacteria in each area of the intestinal tract. This stability of normal flora discourages infection by outside pathogens and prevents overgrowth of potentially pathogenic members. New organisms that enter the system in contaminated food or water generally are suppressed by the established flora. This suppression is related to production by members of the resident flora of antimicrobial substances which inhibit the growth of foreign microorganisms. Antibiotics that kill off part of the intestinal flora can upset its balance and may open the door to infection or pathologic overgrowth. For instance, normal dogs, cat or ferrets are quite resistant to Salmonella, and a large oral dose is required to initiate infection. If the intestinal flora is suppressed by antibiotics, however, the individual becomes much more susceptible and can be infected by a relatively small dose. What the Naysayers Say Several studies have been conducted to examine potential risks of feeding raw diets. In addition to proving raw diets contain bacteria, some researchers claim to be concerned for people handling feces from pets fed raw diets, pet owners handling their pet’s food bowls and the effects of raw pet diets on children, elderly and the immuno suppressed.
Do raw diets carry bacteria? Naysayers say: “A variety of potential enteropathogens of both animals and humans were identified in commercially available raw diets evaluated…” Yes, studies have concluded that raw pet foods contain bacteria. However, the fact that bacteria are present should not come as a surprise. There is simply no such thing as "bacteria-free" meat. Most of the 10 billion cows, pigs, and birds butchered every year for meat at the supermarket are contaminated with one bacteria or another. Therefore, it is probable that the meat you bring into your home to feed yourself or your family is potentially as contaminated with bacteria as raw meats fed to pets! For example, Salmonella spp. has been identified from 7.5% of ground beef, 44.6% of ground chicken, and 49.9% of ground turkey samples. “Meat from healthy animals becomes contaminated at slaughter. Meat surfaces become infected with microorganisms associated with food poisoning during handling, packaging, processing, storage, and transportation. Although many procedures have been incorporated into food processing procedures for both the meat and poultry industries to reduce the level of contamination, bacteria persist: All products should be considered contaminated.” Rebecca L. Remillard, PhD, DVM
What about the people handling feces from animals fed raw diets? Naysayers say: “For humans, the risk of exposure to pathogens via direct or indirect contact with animal feces, or via contact with raw diets, must be considered, particularly with Salmonella spp., as fecal shedding of Salmonella spp. present in diets has been identified in dogs.”
Since its unlikely you will be sharing your pet’s raw diet at mealtime, any transmission of bacteria would likely occur through the fecal-oral route. For instance, bacteria might get on your hands while picking up your dog or cat’s feces or when coming into contact with your pet’s anal area when lifting it up. In reality you’d literally have to eat the animal’s feces to get enough salmonella from it to make you sick. The solution? Abstain from eating dog or cat feces (that should be easy!), ensure appropriate hygiene such as hand washing after handling pets, cleaning the cat’s litter box or picking up dog feces. Immediately picking up and disposing of feces eliminated by your pet in public areas reduces risks associated with environmental contamination. It’s interesting to note that while feeding raw meat is somewhat controversial, pig ears, pizzles and rawhide - which carry similar if not higher risks for contamination - is widely accepted as reasonably safe. One survey found salmonella contamination of 41% of the dog treats examined.
Can people become infected with food-borne pathogens when handling contaminated meat products?Naysayers say: “Bacterial contamination of surfaces that have been in contact with raw diets has not been evaluated, but must be considered. Bacterial contamination of pet food bowls may be a potential source of infection for humans.”
Why is it that veterinarians think pet owners are dummies when it comes to handling raw foods for pets? Unless you are a strict vegetarian, you handle and prepare raw meat in your kitchen so what is the difference between the raw meat consumed by yourself or your pet? Nothing!
Good hygiene in the kitchen is mandatory whether you are preparing food for yourself, your family or your pet. Keep shelves, counter tops, refrigerators, freezers, utensils, sponges, and towels clean to prevent bacterial contamination of food at home. It is especially important to wash all utensils and your hands with soap and hot water after handling one food and before handling another. This helps prevent cross-contamination in which, for example, bacteria in raw meat could be transferred to other foods, such as vegetables. Use a different board for cutting different foods such as produce and meat. Wash cutting boards with hot, soapy water after each use; then rinse and air dry or pat dry with fresh paper towels. Non-porous acrylic, plastic or glass boards and solid wood boards can be washed in an automatic dishwasher. (Laminated boards may crack and split.) Sanitize both wooden and plastic cutting boards with a solution of one teaspoon liquid chlorine bleach per quart of water. Flood the surface with the bleach solution and allow it to stand for several minutes, then rinse and air dry or pat dry with fresh paper towels. Bacteria Are Everywhere People that are paranoid about bacteria in raw pet diets need not be! Bacteria live all around us and within us. The air is filled with bacteria. Bacteria live in the deepest parts of the ocean and deep within Earth. They are in the soil, in our food, and on plants and animals. Even our bodies are home to many different kinds of bacteria. Our lives are closely intertwined with bacteria, and the health of our planet depends very much on their activities.
You can avoid bacteria by not feeding pets raw foods, but then don't use a public restroom. When you turn off the water tap or pull open the door to leave a restroom, you'll contaminate clean hands. Women’s public restrooms contain twice as much fecal bacteria as men’s, probably because women are often accompanied by small children and babies in need of a change. All this applies to your own bathroom. Each time that it's flushed, your toilet propels invisible bacterial and viral aerosols into the air that can float for up to 2 hours contaminating everything from hand towels to toothbrushes. Have you opened a door in a public place today? Ridden an escalator? Worked out at the gym, bought a soda from a vending machine or shopped for groceries? Studies show that shopping cart handles are among the leading sources of germs and bacteria in public. Microbiologists at the University of Arizona Environmental Research Laboratory found 21% of shopping carts tested to contain bodily fluids. The handles can harbor staphylococcus aureus, Streptococcus pneumoniae, E coli and other bacteria from meat and poultry. The University of Arizona published some research a few years ago. They found that almost a third of the railings in public transportation-on buses or subways-were infected with the same bacteria that is found in feces and that 25% of the seats in movie theatres were infected with E.coli bacteria, which is bacteria from feces. Another study by U.S. Air Force doctors in Ohio found that money harbors bacteria which can make both immuno-suppressed and healthy people very sick. What is the worst offender in the kitchen? The kitchen sponge or dishcloth! Both are the perfect nurturing environment for bacteria. The next worst offender is the kitchen sink. Feel the need to get away from this story and take a little coffee break? You might want to hold off on that plan: Twenty percent of the coffee cups tested in one study were oozing with bacteria, thanks to the sponges that clean them. It is generally well known that toilets and kitchens are high risk areas for germ growth, but laundry is rarely mentioned as a potential source of contamination. Research has shown that germs can spread from one fabric to another and from the washing-machine drum to the next load. For years it has been accepted that very hot water is necessary to kill bacteria in the washing, but preservation of modern textiles has led to the use of ever lower temperatures and, in our efforts to consume less energy, our environmental concerns have also led to a reduction in washing powder. The way that we do our washing today is not always sufficient to destroy bacteria in clothes. Bacteria from food, the body or other sources can survive a wash cycle and spread via our hands to other surfaces. Among them are staphylococcus aureus and klebsiella pneumoniae and E coli. Antibacterial soaps would be good if they worked, but they don’t seem to do anything. Disinfectants, on the other hand, kill both viruses and bacteria. Chlorine bleach, alcohol, and hydrogen peroxide are all good disinfectants. Here’s some interesting tidbits about hand washing and spreading germs: 95 percent of people say they wash their hands after using a public bathroom, but only 67 percent actually wash their hands. Only 33 percent of those who do wash their hands use soap. And only 16 percent really wash their hands long enough. Every three minutes, a child brings his hand to his nose or mouth. Every 60 seconds, a working adult touches as many as 30 objects. (If you’re traveling, by the way, you might want to disinfect that remote control for the TV. That’s where the big bacteria boys hang out in a hotel room. Some viruses can survive on surfaces for up to 72 hours.)
Speaking of working adults, the phone comes out as the grimiest object of bacteria in the office, followed by the desktop, keyboard, mouse, fax machine, and photocopier. Where are the least germs in the office? By now, you should have guessed: the toilet seat. But, there are a hundred times more bacteria on a cutting board than a toilet seat, so lick a toilet seat rather than a cutting board. Many insects such as flies, wasps and cockroaches carry food poisoning bacteria on their legs and bodies, and contaminate food and work surfaces when they walk on them. Rodents (rats and mice) excrete bacteria in their feces which can also result in contaminated food and surfaces in supermarket warehouses - the very food items you bring into your home.
Food Contamination People usually associate raw meat with bacterial contamination. However, meat isn't the only source of bacteria. Did you know you should observe the same handling and preparation methods for vegetables and fruits as used with raw meat? I'll bet not. Raw fruits and vegetables can become contaminated along the farm-to-table continuum. Produce used for salads - lettuce and spinach, for example - grow low to the ground, where they are likely to come in contact with contaminated fertilizers. Sometimes they’re irrigated with contaminated waters or picked by workers with poor hygiene practices. The complex, multi-layered surfaces of salad produce are more difficult to clean after picking than produce with a smooth surface, such as apples or potatoes. Because fresh fruits and vegetables are usually eaten raw, they can pose a health risk if they’re not properly handled. Therefore, all produce needs to be thoroughly washed and safely prepared and handled before it is eaten. Even then, the bacterial population on fruits and vegetables is reduced but not eliminated. Pathogens associated with vegetables and fruits includes: Cryptosporidium, parasite (juice/cider and produce), Cyclospora, parasite (produce), Escherichia coli O157:H7 (juice/cider and produce), Norwalk Virus (produce), Salmonella (juice and produce), Shigella (produce).
The growth of many kinds of bacteria can be reduced or stopped by refrigeration and freezing-two important practices in the preservation of food, including milk. However, refrigeration alone will not kill bacteria. This is best illustrated by the fact that at normal refrigerated temperatures, milk will still, in time, turn sour. The maximum allowable number of bacteria (SPC) in milk to be marketed for human consumption is in the range of 100,000 bacteria per milliliter (about 10 drops) of milk. Some dairy producers are satisfied with any bacteria count so long as they can market their milk. Okay, so no milk. You're thinking juice may be a better and safer alternative? Ninety-eight percent of the juice sold in supermarkets is pasteurized when fruits and vegetables are fresh-squeezed, harmful bacteria from the outside of the produce can become a part of the finished product. If it’s ingested, children, the elderly, and people with weakened immune systems risk serious illness. E. coli O157:H7 is very resistant to acid, so it can survive in an acidic medium like orange or apple juice for a long time. Since the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued its first warning about the safety of raw sprouts, there has been a growing controversy about this issue. On the one hand, sprouts have some well-documented health benefits. On the other hand, however, ingestion of sprouts contaminated with the bacterium E. coli O157:H7 caused the death of 17 persons in Japan in 1996, and was also responsible for illness in over 6,000 persons. This outbreak factored into the U.S. FDA decision in 1999 to issue a warning about the dangers of eating raw or lightly cooked sprouts and recommending cooking of all sprouts to lower risk of infection. The FDA specifically mentioned alfalfa, clover, and radish sprouts in this initial warning. In 2002, it included mung bean and alfalfa sprouts in a renewed warning about consumption of these foods. Who Should Avoid Eating Dry Sausages? Because dry sausages are not cooked, the elderly, very young children, pregnant women and those with weakened immune systems might want to avoid eating them. The bacterium E. coli O157:H7 has been found to survive the process of dry fermenting. Factory farmed eggs can carry salmonella. Most tainted eggs are contaminated within the hens' ovaries before their shells form. Washing the eggs before cracking them open is no guarantee that they'll be free of bacteria. Therefore, it's best to avoid anything containing raw or undercooked eggs, including raw cookie dough, cake batter, eggnog, hollandaise sauce and Caesar salad or other dressings made with raw eggs. It is estimated that one out of every 50 consumers is exposed to a contaminated egg yolk each year.
Bacteria Responsible for Human Food-borne Illness To help keep things in perspective consider that there are many, many sources of bacterial contamination and although some bacteria cause more serious illness than others, only a few are responsible for the majority of cases. The following are the nine most prominent bacteria that affect humans: Campylobacter jejuni Found: intestinal tracts of animals and birds, raw milk, untreated water, and sewage sludge. Transmission: contaminated water, raw milk, and raw or under-cooked meat, poultry, or shellfish. Symptoms: fever, headache, and muscle pain followed by diarrhea (sometimes bloody), abdominal pain and nausea that appear 2 to 5 days after eating; may last 7 to 10 days. Clostridium botulinum Found: widely distributed in nature: in soil and water, on plants, and in intestinal tracts of animals and fish. Grows only in little or no oxygen. Transmission: bacteria produce a toxin that causes illness. Improperly canned foods, garlic in oil, and vacuum-packaged and tightly wrapped food. Symptoms: toxin affects the nervous system. Symptoms usually appear within 18 to 36 hours, but can sometimes appear within as few as 4 hours or as many as 8 days after eating; double vision, droopy eyelids, trouble speaking and swallowing, and difficulty breathing. Fatal in 3 to 10 days if not treated. Clostridium perfringens Found: soil, dust, sewage, and intestinal tracts of animals and humans. Grows only in little or no oxygen. Transmission: called “the cafeteria germ” because many outbreaks result from food left for long periods in steam tables or at room temperature. Bacteria destroyed by cooking, but some toxin-producing spores may survive. Symptoms: diarrhea and gas pains may appear 8 to 24 hours after eating; usually last about 1 day, but less severe symptoms may persist for 1 to 2 weeks. Escherichia coli O157:H7 Found: intestinal tracts of some mammals, raw milk, unchlorinated water; one of several strains of E. coli that can cause human illness. Transmission: contaminated water, raw milk, raw or rare ground beef, unpasteurized apple juice or cider, uncooked fruits and vegetables; person-to-person. Symptoms: diarrhea or bloody diarrhea, abdominal cramps, nausea, and malaise; can begin 2 to 5 days after food is eaten, lasting about 8 days. Some, especially the very young, have developed Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome (HUS) that causes acute kidney failure. A similar illness, thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP), may occur in older adults. Salmonella (over 1600 types) Found: intestinal tract and feces of animals; Salmonella enteritidis in raw eggs. Transmission: raw or undercooked eggs, poultry, and meat; raw milk and dairy products; seafood. Symptoms: stomach pain, diarrhea, nausea, chills, fever, and headache usually appear 6 to 48 hours after eating; may last 1 to 2 days. Streptococcus A Found: noses, throats, pus, sputum, blood, and stools of humans. Transmission: people-to-food from poor hygiene, ill food handlers, or improper food handling; outbreaks from raw milk, ice cream, eggs, lobster, salads, custard, and pudding allowed to stand at room temperature for several hours between preparation and eating. Symptoms: sore throat, painful swallowing, tonsillitis, high fever, headache, nausea, vomiting, malaise; occurs 1 to 3 days after eating, lasting a few days to about a week. Listeria monocytogenes Found: intestinal tracts of humans and animals, milk, soil, leaf vegetables, and processed foods; can grow slowly at refrigerator temperatures. Transmission: soft cheese, raw milk, improperly processed ice cream, raw leafy vegetables, meat, and poultry. Illness caused by bacteria that do not produce toxin. Symptoms: fever, chills, headache, backache, sometimes abdominal pain and diarrhea; 12 hours to 3 weeks after ingestion; may later develop more serious illness (meningitis or spontaneous abortion in pregnant women); sometimes just fatigue. Shigella (over 30 types) Found: human intestinal tract; rarely found in other animals. Transmission: person-to-person by fecal-oral route; fecal contamination of food and water. Most outbreaks result from food, especially salads, prepared and handled by workers using poor personal hygiene. Symptoms: disease referred to as “shigellosis” or bacillary dysentery. Diarrhea containing blood and mucus, fever, abdominal cramps, chills, vomiting; 12 to 50 hours from ingestion of bacteria; can last a few days to 2 weeks. Sometimes, no symptoms seen. Staphylococcus aureus Found: on humans (skin, infected cuts, pimples, noses, and throats). Transmission: people-to-food through improper handling. Multiply rapidly at room temperature to produce a toxin that causes illness. Symptoms: severe nausea, abdominal cramps, vomiting, and diarrhea occur 1 to 6 hours after eating; recovery within 2 to 3 days—longer if severe dehydration occurs.
Are Raw Fed Pets a Threat? After learning about all the places bacteria lurk in the environment and the foods that carry potential risks, it is sad that pets often become the brunt of germ phobia. Faithful felines and devoted dogs provide innumerable emotional benefits to their owners and the elderly or handicapped in nursing and care homes. Unfortunately, therapy pets are often rejected if fed a raw food diet. In short, therapy organizations fear that pathogens in raw food diets will be transmitted from the dog or cat (through saliva and contact with the pet's fur) to humans with weakened immune systems, resulting in life-threatening illness.
However, salmonella outbreaks in hospitals, institutions for children and nursing homes are not uncommon and usually arise from food contaminated at its source, or less often, during handling by an ill person or a carrier. The common occurrence and dire consequences of infectious disease outbreaks in nursing homes often go unrecognized. Regardless of whether a therapy pet is fed a raw diet or not, nursing and care homes are an ideal environment for acquisition and spread of infection: susceptible residents who share sources of air, food, water, and health care in a crowded institutional setting. Moreover, visitors, staff, and residents constantly come and go, bringing in pathogens from both the hospital and the community. Studies of pet dogs show that food-borne pathogens are present in a surprisingly large proportion of dogs tested. Hackett and Lappin (2003) found infectious agents in the faeces of 26% of healthy Colorado dogs Fukata et al (2002) found salmonella antibodies in 15% of apparently healthy dogs. (Not limited to dogs eating raw diets.) The chance of Felix or Fido passing on a nasty bug may increase if a person's immune system does not function optimally but some experts believe the benefits of animal companionship far outweigh any hazards. In the face of bacteria hysteria, it's worth remembering that bacteria are everywhere, and we've been happily co-existing with them for millennia.
Kibble Risks It is interesting that veterinarians are concerned about the safety of raw food diets, yet ethics get shoved under the carpet when it comes to health problems associated with kibble and canned pet foods and treats. Improperly handled raw pet food is no more dangerous than improperly handled kibble or canned pet foods. Dry dog and cat food can look surprisingly tasty to a toddler. Since they can be choking hazards, it's essential to keep pet food locked away. But this fact is never mentioned on a bag of dry pet food! Responsible instructions might include the following message to consumers: • place feeding bowls and dispensers out of the reach of babies and small children • remain in the area while you pet finishes a meal • dispose of any uneaten food promptly • free-choice feeding presents a choking hazard to babies and small children. • Kids aren’t the only ones at risk. Dogs that gulp their food can choke on dry kibble. Dry food can be soaked, but then it cannot be left out. One pet food manufacturer recommends moistening dry puppy food with water to release more aroma, improve palatability and make it easier for puppies to chew. However, bacteria in moistened dry pet food multiply rapidly. How many pet owners plop canned food into a pet dish and leave it there for the day? How many people have toddlers that could potentially come across this food or the dirty bowl?
Today it seems that everywhere we turn, there is another product to eradicate bacteria, but that may not necessarily be a good thing. If there is no exposure to bacteria, immune systems won't build the antibodies they need to stay healthy. Humans and dogs have both good and bad bacteria in their bodies. When we are healthy, there is a balanced level of each. For instance, at any given time, we have traces of E.coli or Salmonella strains running through our systems, along with good bacteria. The body has an amazing health-regulating ability that combats a diverse amount of environmental factors. As bad bacteria are introduced, the immune system fights back with its own army of bacteria. In carnivores, the colon is short and simple because meat can go off quickly and produce toxins. The longer such food stays inside the body, the more toxins are produced. Therefore, the meat-eater's intestine is designed to take out this waste as quickly as possible so risk is negligible under normal conditions. If you are considering a raw diet for your dog, cat or ferret, but you are worried about bacteria for yourself or your family, ensure that foods are purchased from reliable sources and that they are handled correctly from the time you purchase them to the time they are fed. Make certain raw pet food products are kept frozen until thawing prior to feeding. Proper handling at home is an important key. Good hygiene, especially washing your hands often and for at least one minute, is the most effective way to control the spread of bacteria. Keep countertops and cutting boards sanitized and wash your dog's bowl after feeding. Pick up your dog's feces immediately following defecation and dispose of them appropriately.
A Word about Antibacterial Agents We must understand that bacteria are necessary to life and by using antibacterial agents we are helping to create super-bacteria that will be immune to the strongest antibiotics. Antibacterial agents are now added to dishwashing and laundry detergents, and hand soaps. Products containing antibacterial agents are currently a big marketing ploy used by companies trying to find a new reason for you to buy their products. Research has discovered that E.coli can develop resistance to Triclosan, one of the common antibacterial ingredients in antibacterial soaps. Triclosan works by acting on a single gene to kill the bacteria. Creams and ointments are also loaded with antibacterial agents so even these should be used cautiously as bacteria may develop resistance.
That's the long and short of it. The simplest answer is that a Ferret has a fast digestive track and E coli and Salmonella take more than 3-4 hours to incubate. Simply put, the food is out of their system before it can cause problems. Sorry about the long reading, but you will find this coming up in coversations and it's nice to be prepared. :wave3: I am editing this, so hold on if you are online
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 23:35:31 GMT -5
That's a good idea. I don't like to make their food too warm. I'm afraid it will turn quicker.I can't imagine Australia getting cold. I know it's such a big place, so like us, you must have different regions with different weather. I'll have to learn a little more about Australia. I'd love to see it some day.I'm more afraid that if i make it too warm that it would start cooking, thats why I never use microwave or hot water. Australia gets super cold in winter and super hot in summer. I'm lucky in summer (most of the time) since some places get over 47°C in summer, especially central australia (alice springs) The hot hot summers don't help with our bushfire seasons Average temperatures are around 20°C high and 11°C low around Melbourne-Ballarat region but it can get up to around 35-42°C most summers. 6 months ago western australia hit 53°C which is probably the hottest on record so far over here. We're known for heatwaves and those can be nasty, especially for our poor animals and wildlife (and people of course). ;A; Queensland also gets quite hot in summer, and probably even NSW. Oh speaking of QLD & NSW, Some parts actually got some snow recently. Even some parts of victoria. Snow is quite rare for most parts but it happens every so often. We get snow in the blue mountains on a regular basis in winter too. Years ago, I read a book called "A town like Alice", do you know that one? That book and the movie Crocodile Dundee formed most of what I know. That and a Pilot that I worked with, who flew regularly into Sydney.Oh I've heard of that book! I haven't read it though. hahaha, I've never seen Crocodile Dundee. I actually never really watched old australian shows or movies. Apart from Skippy, Skippy was the best. Oh great, now the sing is in my head (skippy, skippy~ skippy the bush kangaroo~ skippy, skippy~ skippy our friend ever true) Its going to be in my head forever now. Okay, maybe I did get into one australian show last year called Love child. Its about the true story on forced adoption in Australia in the 1950s and the 1970s. It's really deep and emotional. ;A; Sydney is a big tourist hot spot, and its lovely and all but Melbourne is soooo much better (and cheaper!!). >3< I was actually going to move to Sydney but it was too expensive so I decided to just stay around western melbourne, Now I'm not technically in melbourne since I'm closer to Ballarat (which is also very lovely~) Haru is a good girl. Try making the slivers just a bit bigger now. Once the girls are eating slivers happily, we will begin reducing the amount of soup.She is! tonight when I fed her, she was eating more slivers than she was soup. I'm so happy for her. >3< I did all the meal prep tonight and cut them more bigger. I also had to make a new batch of soup to freeze also. I weighed everything like last time to the exact weights~^^ That's so cute and very polite of them not to use your bed. (giggle) They are ridiculously smart.Wynstan loves to stash his treasures in Paul's shoes. I keep telling Paul to keep them up, but he doesn't listen. I think Paul is secretly flattered. Wynstan is a Daddy's boy."Did yuki take my slippers again?" Is a common question I ask my roommate when I cannot locate my slippers now. He's always stashing them under her double bed and right in the CENTER. So I have to either move the bed to get to them or I have to use a broom to push them out. He's such a sneaky boy >3< I agree! They are so smart. I let them out to play and Yuki could play forever while Haru gets sleepy so she walks back to the cage and goes up to the third floor to sleep. I leave the cage open for that purpose since I know she likes to have a wander then go back for more sleep. Aww! Wynstan sounds so adorable! Its kind of like he's leaving a gift~ You were right about Yuki more likely to become more cuddly. I was holding him today and he was so placid, just sitting in my arms and letting us stroke him~ I tried it with Haru but she's always wriggly, got stuff to do, things to stash. A feeding den might be nice for Yuki. Have you seen those on the forum? holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4544/feeding-den-setups
I actually made a feeding den out of a box to stop him from stashing in his litter and it worked like a charm but ended up having to throw it out after a few days. I think I might go get some small plastic container box thingies and see if I can make one that can be cleaned easily. I tried it with mine, but they rarely eat at the same time or together. I put two plates out and they will eat from different plates but never all at the same time. Like your blue and yellow plates.Mine eat together, but I noticed that sometimes Haru might eat alittle then go nap, come back later and eat alittle. Yuki would eat alot in one hit and be full for a while. >3< Haru woke earlier and ate some more and Yuki thought "oh its play time?" tries to play with her while she's trying to eat some chicken slivers while having him nagging for some play. It was quite adorable but poor Haru really just wanted to eat. So I decided yuki could come out for more play and leave Haru to eat her fill~ Oh yes~ They have the blue and yellow plates and a larger yellow bowl thats kind of like a soup bowl but alittle flat, I use it for them both most of the time. ^^ We're aiming for five percent over the two meals, per ferret. You could cut it down some, but like I said before, it's not an exact science, we simply don't want to overload their system.
okie dokie ~~^^ I find the whole color change fascinating. With my first ferret Ponce, he was a lovely champagne. We lived in Florida and didn't have seasons, it was just hot. I never noticed color changes on him and didn't know to look for them. Then I found the forum and was amazed at how different their colors can become.Both of my white girls, Juliet and Keller have some silver on their tails, more in spring and less in the winter. I've seen some pictures here of remarkable changes.champagne ferrets are so lovely ~ I wanted a champagne coloured ferret. I also wanted a Silver Panda and was going to go an hour and a half to a Panda breeder to pick up a girl, but decided on another breeder who had a bigger variety. I'm so happy now that I have Haru & Yuki, they have such adorable personalities. <3 I think Heather mentioned that descenting is illegal in other places. She is a breeder and has talked about how greasy hobs can be. I'd love to smell a poof and see a full intact hob. When we go on vacation, mine will stay with a breeder at her ferret camp. I'm hoping she will have a few intact males. Last year, I got to see the babies, but no grown males.
I heard that descenting is risky. I've never smelt a poof. They do that when they get frightened or over excited right? I know, the stuff that they put in our food is scarey sometimes. Bitbyter has a little girl ferret who has severe issues with any of that stuff. He has to search out free range, hormone free, antibiotic free chickens and they cost much more. He's in Canada, I doubt I could find what he finds.Thats so sad! ;A; I wonder if its like an allergic reaction to certain dyes or drugs in the meat... I'm sure many little ferrets also have the same issues. I also feel sorry for the animals who end up drugged up... Free range is always a nice choice. Its quite expensive here also, but Luckily most meats are now drug/hormone free at some leading supermarkets like coles. I always buy free range eggs, and they cost $3 more than usual, sometimes even up to $7 for 8 eggs! Such a lucky ferret to have someone who can pay the extra for the best meats for her belly. ;u; If Haru or Yuki were like that, I honestly would do the same. Even if its pricey, in the end price doesn't matter as long as its benefiting the beloved family member >3< Cuddles and good poop plus a nice new cage...it doesn't get better than that, lol. We're all such crazy ferret people and it makes me so happy.Today I got a late birthday present from my dad ($500) and I spent literally most of it on my ferrets. New blankets, Some Lino tiles for the caged floor levels in their cage, a plumbing pipe for a cheaper alternative to those pet tunnels (which they seem to really adore!), A new container for their digging~ (I'm picking up more rice tomorrow, yay!), New litter trays and toys~ I even payed for Yuki's desexing (and for their second distemper shot) upfront and he goes in on Wednesday and Haru gets her shot same day then he gets his later on in the week. In a way, providing them with many things is the best gift. >3< (I will read the lesson now, and post an update on Haru & Yuki afterwards~)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 3:01:16 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 14:34:07 GMT -5
We get snow in the blue mountains on a regular basis in winter too.
You have blue Mountains? They must be incredibly beautiful. I really must learn more about Australia. It sounds so wonderful and of course, all of us over here are crazy about an Australian accent. She is! tonight when I fed her, she was eating more slivers than she was soup. I'm so happy for her. >3< I did all the meal prep tonight and cut them more bigger. I also had to make a new batch of soup to freeze also. I weighed everything like last time to the exact weights~^^
Good Girl! I think she is over her dislike of slivers and will move forward a little more now. They're both moving along fast. I heard that descenting is risky. I've never smelt a poof. They do that when they get frightened or over excited right?
I've never smelt a poof either, but really want to. Only us crazy ferret people understand what we mean when we say that. Today I got a late birthday present from my dad ($500) and I spent literally most of it on my ferrets. New blankets, Some Lino tiles for the caged floor levels in their cage, a plumbing pipe for a cheaper alternative to those pet tunnels (which they seem to really adore!), A new container for their digging~ (I'm picking up more rice tomorrow, yay!), New litter trays and toys~ I even payed for Yuki's desexing (and for their second distemper shot) upfront and he goes in on Wednesday and Haru gets her shot same day then he gets his later on in the week. In a way, providing them with many things is the best gift. >3<
Shopping for ferrets is so much fun. Those plumbing pipes are great. I bought four ten foot sections for mine. The black plastic drainage pipe types with holes in them. That has to be their favorite toys and they never tire of chasing each other up and down them. At Christmas time, we do a gift swap on the forum. You're not suppose to spend more than twenty dollars and we buy something for the ferrets, not us. My present from Dani was this really cool fleece blanket playmate. She put openings in it, sewed a tunnel and had layers. It was all handmade and that makes it even more special. They really love that. Juliet is all about the "under" game. She goes under and then honks until everyone finds her. I just got around to reading it! So much information,I know that was alot of reading, so Thank you for reading it. Forgive me if I give you info that you already know. We don't need a quiz on that, I just wanted to prepare you for the inevitable questions that people will throw at you, about raw feeding. My vet caught me unaware, when I was just learning about it and then I was so mad at myself for not having an articulate answer to his question. It's the weekend, so I will give you one small reading assignment about Dairy. In earlier centuries, farm folk believed that drinking from a bowl of milk that ferrets had drunk from would cure Whopping cough. So, they would bring bowls of milk to ferret owners and let them drink from the bowl and then take the rest home, in hopes of curing or preventing Whooping cough. We know better now and Dairy is of course, not good for ferrets and this is why: Why Ferrets Should NOT Get MILK of ANY Kind By Katt Crouch Ferrets are LACTOSE INTOLERANT. This means that they are unable to digest lactose, a sugar molecule found in milk.
GOAT MILK Some people think that they can avoid this issue by giving GOAT MILK. However, Goat Milk has almost the exact same Lactose content as cow milk. Goat Milk contains fat molecules that are easier to digest, but this does not avoid the problem of lactose.
Here is an article if you want to learn more about why some PEOPLE with lactose intolerance can handle goat milk better - it is believed that many people who are "lactose intolerant" may actually be allergic to a Protein in the cow milk rather than having issues with the lactose. www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=38646
LACTOSE-FREE MILK Other people may say that giving your ferret Lactose-Free milk will solve the problem of indigestion due to lactose. However, this causes an entirely different issue - by giving them lactose free milk you are essentially giving them SUGAR. This isn't a big issue in humans so I don't think it is commonly known. Let me explain.... Lactose is a big sugar molecule made out of 2 smaller sugars (glucose and galactose) stuck together. In animals/people that are ABLE to digest lactose, there is an enzyme called Lactase that cuts the BIG sugar Lactose into the 2 smaller sugar pieces. These two smaller sugars can then be digested and used.
In animals that can NOT digest lactose (lactose intolerance) the enzyme is not there at all or there is not enough of it. This means lactose hangs around ripe for the taking - by bacteria. Because the Lactose isn't being used by the animal, the microbes living in the gut use it instead. THE BACTERIA ingest it and release lactic acid, acetic acid, Hydrogen gas, and CO2 gas. This is what causes the diarrhea, bloating, upset stomach, etc. There is little to NO sugar actually absorbed by the animal (ferret in this case) because the bacteria use the sugar.
Now in Lactose Free milk, they ADD the enzyme Lactase to the MILK. This breaks the Big Sugar Lactose into the two smaller sugars in the milk ahead of time. For humans, this doesn't technically affect the sugar content of the milk since it is just breaking the big sugar into the little sugars, which should happen in the intestines anyways. In ferrets however who cannot handle sugar, breaking the lactose sugar up ahead of time makes the sugar AVAILABLE FOR DIGESTION. Thus by offering your ferrets lactose free milk, you are inadvertently feeding them DIGESTIBLE SUGAR which has a very strong link to INSULINOMA.
AKA: Lactose-milk the bacteria eat the sugar and the ferret gets a stomach ache, but no insulinoma. Lactose FREE milk, the ferret gets no stomach ache but DOES get sugar -- INSULINOMA!
Happy Saturday, well I guess it's Sunday now for you. :wave2:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2015 23:56:39 GMT -5
Oh yes they are beautiful mountains. between the blue mountains llnd the snowy mountains, there's a lot of wild brumbies. (There's an aussie movie about brumbies in the snowy mountains called the silver brumby, it was my childhood favourite) I'm very happy that they're going along well ^^ I had to take their levels down to start litter training again ( getting them used to their new litter tray) they're also catching on fast! Intelligent creatures. Hehe wanting to smell a poof sounds so funny, but same here. I heard it smells bad but I'm sure people exaggerated. The pipes we're $9 , I'm going to try seeing if they have those flexible large storm drain pipes next time I'm at bunnings. Ooh, like a Kris Kringle/secret Santa ~ we did those in primary school. It's great idea! Aww Juliet likes hide and seek! Thats super cute!! Its alright, I still learnt a lot ^^ Oh dairy... that story rub some honey on your big toe and you'll cure a headache. Humans come up the strangest theories. I heard about them being lactose intolerant, so my instant thought was no dairy whatsoever, including goats milk or lactose free. Probably a very smart instinct of mine. I never knew about the lactose free milk or any kind of milk having sugars in it that could hangs around in their bodies ... actually I wasn't even fully aware of lactose intolerance to begin with... insulinoma from digestible sugars in lactose free milk... no way. ;A; this is something all ferret owners should know! Yes it's Sunday~ always a day head, yay for the future!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 1:11:54 GMT -5
I had to look up Brumbies. First, I found a Rugby team and thought that you had a bunch of crazy Rugby players running around your blue mountains. Then I saw that they are feral horses. Astonishing. Now, I have a lovely picture of handsome rugby players astride wild free horses. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 1:49:46 GMT -5
I had to look up Brumbies. First, I found a Rugby team and thought that you had a bunch of crazy Rugby players running around your blue mountains. Then I saw that they are feral horses. Astonishing. Now, I have a lovely picture of handsome rugby players astride wild free horses. :wave3: I had a feeling you would find the rugby team LOL The mental image was hilarious. Rugby players running slow motion out in the bush.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 0:21:48 GMT -5
Its Monday! (Sunday for you~)
1. Ferret's name: Yuki. 2. Ferret's weight: 3 ounces 2.8 oz. (1 470 grams) 3. Ferret has eaten "4 ounces" on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins: There's been light brown, dark brown, alittle bit of lighter yellow brown. (Detoxing while on soupie I assume) 5. Activity levels: The usual, Energetic & Playful~ 6. Weekly menu: Last week- Soupie (HF Recipe), Chicken Slivers with Soupie.
1. Ferret's name: Haru. 2. Ferret's weight: 1 ounce, 12.9 oz. (819 grams) 3. Ferret has eaten "1.5 to 2 ounces" on average per meal. 4. Stools on various proteins: There's been light brown, dark brown, alittle bit of lighter yellow brown. (Detoxing while on soupie I assume) 5. Activity levels: A little energetic, becoming more playful (which is super adorable to see) 6. Weekly menu: Last week- Soupie (HF Recipe), Chicken Slivers with Soupie.
They've gained weight! They both made a mess this morning, It seems they need a bath. ;A; I might just use plain water since all I need to do is rinse them. Is there anything else I'm missing?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 5:37:06 GMT -5
I ran out of chicken thigh for the slivers. Its almost shopping day so I might get more then, unless I should get a different protein meat? Anyhoo what should I use for tomorrow and Wednesday morning? I have chicken hearts , cow kidney, gizzard, lots of necks/wings, liver (but they get enough of that from the soupie ) should I try new meats other than chicken on Wednesday?
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