Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 16:02:36 GMT -5
That's to be expected. Maybe a bit of stress combined with new foods. You are really confirming my belief that more than half of teaching new ferrets to eat raw is just to expect that they will do it.
The ferrents who are so nervous or just don't really believe it will happen have the most trouble.
Maybe they sense that in us and follow along with how we think.
I think I also already had a thought that this would happen. It seems to happen with most new pets.
I remember the similar thing happening when I moved my border collie from Echuca to Melton, and then when I brought some ratties home. I think in a way, its kind of like common sense for animals to have stress poopies. When haru and yuki had theirs, it cleared up after a couple of days (then a couple of weeks since they started going on complete raw).
You mentioned something similar when it comes to encouraging through thoughts. I think it was something like sending messages through thoughts (Ferret Telepathy~?) , but not literally speaking but rather that they pick up on the energy and become more encourages to try the foods. Its actually a really interesting thing. It also seems to happen alot with positive energy, like if you think positive, positive things will happen. (most of the time. haha)^^ I think its best not to think of 'believing that they will or will not' but instead either think or verbally say something like "yummy food~ Eat up~ You know you wanna~"
Oh I read this article a while ago. Its really interesting and I believe that all animals have a similar kind of ability.
news.discovery.com/animals/pets/dogs-are-likely-born-with-canine-telepathy-110609.htm
I also found an interesting thing from a book. (The Sense of Being Stared At, by Rupert Sheldrake)
"Telepathy occurs in animals of many different species. How widespread is it? And how far back are its evolutionary origins?
A variety of domesticated animals pick up on human thoughts and intentions telepathically, especially dogs, cats, horses and parrots. There are also scattered reports about telepathy in rabbits, ferrets, hand reared lambs, cockatiels, parakeets, budgerigars, mynah birds, and pet hens and geese.
All these animals are either mammals or birds. I am not aware of any strong evidence of pet reptiles picking up on human thoughts and intentions, nor amphibia , nor fish. Among insects, hives of bees are sometimes said to react to the death of their owners, but the available evidence is not very strong.
Through my appeals for information in a variety of beekeepers' journals (including Scottish Beekeeper and L'Abeille de France) I have received only three firsthand reports of bees swarming soon after the death of their keeper at times of the year when swarming would be unusual. Some beekeepers are skeptical about stories of bees reacting to the death of their owners; they have also dismiss as superstition the formerly widespread custom of telling the bees that their keeper has died.
Leaving bees aside, and leaving open the question of possible telepathy between people and reptiles, the vast majority of cases of human-animal telepathy involve domesticated mammals and birds. How has human-animal telepathy arisen?
Has telepathy in domesticated mammals and birds evolved only because of human influence? Or are animals of these species telepathic with each other in the wild? Dogs have been domesticated for a very long time, maybe as much as one hundred thousand years. Cats and horses were domesticated more recently, probably about five thousand years ago. In these species, telepathy could perhaps have evolved through interactions with humans over many generations. There would be have been plenty of scope for natural or even deliberate selection. The argument does not apply to parrots. Many parrots kept as pets today were captured in the wild when young and had no domesticated ancestors. The importation of wild-caught African Grey parrots into the United States was banned only in 1993, and birds currently in captivity are, at most, only one or two generations removed from the wild.
Many breeders still breed with wild-caught African Greys. Telepathic communications between people and parrots cannot be explained by so many generations of genetic selection under domestication. In addition, some wild animals raised by human beings form strong bonds with their human guardians, and even after being returned to the wild they may retain their telepathic abilities from people. Cats, Dogs, Horses, and Parrots are generally more sensitive to telepathic influences than their human companions. This asymmetry is clearly apparent on my database, where in June 2012 there were 3,715 cases of animals reacting telepathically to humans, as opposed to 492 vice versa. In random surveys in Britain and America, more pets were telepathic than their owners, according to the owners themselves.
Thus telepathy in non-human animals does not seem to be a special feature of domestication. Perhaps animals of many species are telepathic with other members of their social group under natural conditions. The manifestation of telepathy under domestication seems most likely to be related to telepathic abilities already present in the animals' wild forebears."
I thought I would have shared it since it relates to the subject, kind of. Its also quite an interesting thing to think about. Animals are so intelligent.
He is overexcited right now. When he bites down hard, walk away for two minutes. That is what Haru or Yuki will do. This will teach him social skills.
Our Wynstan is the only one who gets overexcited and bites down. Then he bites down further. You can really feel his jaw muscles. He is such a sweet gentle boy but I think he may be a bit special.
I can say from experience now, that compared to Yuki, Beavis isn't that bad. ;u; Yuki was crazy when we first brought him home. He was so excited, it was almost like he's been fed drugs or something. (What was in that kibble... Oh gosh... seriously thinking about that now, anything can literally be in that stuff, but thats another topic) Beavis has never bitten down or drawn blood so he's already aware at least that biting that hard is a no no. He's just quite hard when you hand play with him. Which is normal. He's quite smart and tends to listen to me like Yuki when it gets too hard. They're so intelligent. I don't know how many times I've had the need to point that out, even though everyone knows it anyway. Maybe I've just had some luck. I've read so many people having issues with biting and here I am, only latch bitten twice (once each from Haru and Yuki) and have never been bitten to the point of drawing blood, or biting down hard in general since ... wow... I can't remember. Many many weeks. I'm not going to jinx myself though, because I still keep in mind that I could get bitten alittle too hard again with Beavis. But at the moment, I'm just starting to get a feel to how he plays and he's going to learn what its an acceptable play bite for us. ^^ I honestly don't mind the play biting. Kittens and cats do it, Dogs even do it, so I see why ferrets shouldn't be able to either. Its all about play and having fun (He just has to pick up on whats good for us to be able to play) Its only been a day, or two now so I still have alot to learn about little Beavis. Sometimes I wonder about his past, I guess it happens with rescues, but it really doesn't matter since its all about his future full of fun. Yuki has a habit of nipping at times. He's a cheeky boy. I almost ended up with a Septum (nose) piercing the other night. It was a light nip, like how I've been telling him is acceptable, however its not like I can always explain about sensitive areas. hahahha. It hurt for a second and I was laughing because it got a nerve that made my eyes tear up. Awhh Little Wynstan! Haru did the same and she's usually not the bitey type. When you get past the slight pain of it, it actually is quite amazing how strong those little jaws are. Its also amazing because if they really wanted to, they could vary well break out bones or cause alot of damage. I've heard those horror stories and it makes me sad that people tend to see one bad story, and then blame the entire species. Humans have done alot worse. We've sent species extinct, and thats a really big and bad thing. ;n; There's always reasons behind those horror stories too.
It's like picking your battles. They only have the one way to invite you to play and they don't know that our skin is softer than theirs. You might use teaser toys or blankets for awhile. Play but keep your hands away. Good luck with the toes.
In my opinion, he is just building his bond with you. I wouldn't use a sin bin or punish him. It's too early and he won't understand.
Find a simple phrase like "No Bite" and say it in a stern voice. Use the exact same phrase each time. Then put him down or walk away. Always come back and resume play after the two minutes. He'll catch on.
My personality prevents me from running and hiding behind teaser toys most of the time I feel that its more effective just to get in there when you're 100% positive you can be mentally prepared incase of bites. Its kind of like what was mentioned earlier with the thoughts. Its actually so crazy how much that actually works. I was afraid of Yuki after I was latch bitten. I don't think I admitted that at the time. It took me 3 or so days to let it heal up some more and for me to mentally prepare myself to face him again. If you're not 100% prepared, animals pick up on it and take advantage of it. I was scolded alot when I used to work with horses. I actually remember one time being told that if I wasn't confident, then I should just go home and even forget about mucking out stalls. It was quite harsh, But now I really understand the reason behind it. ^^ I went out and even bough that apple bitter stuff, which is wasting away in the ferret room somewhere. I used it once or twice then gave up. I think I also got gloves and gave up. I decided it was just better to face him and if he was going to bite me that I would endure it. I guess its kind of a very brave decision, but it was more effective than using the bitter apple or the gloves. 3 warnings were enough, then Carrier for 2 minutes. I never even used the scruff method because I don't believe in trying to intimidate him in such a way. (I'll also admit, He did bite me again in retaliation to scruffing, so I decided to just not do it.) I think his high score for carrier time out was at least 15 in one hour. It took 2-3 weeks and he stopped. He must have gotten the hint that biting or nipping was not going to happen with me. I even let him play bite alittle harder, but I actually believe now that he's come eye to eye with me, kind of like a respect thing. Now he's a softy. He's still playful and a handful, but I could rub his belly without getting bitten. ;u; Can you believe that we even had a single thought on rehoming him ? Turns out it was a human problem, not a ferret problem and after giving him time and lots of love, respect and time, he's now the perfect snuggle buddy.
Aren't they adorable when they are vocal? Don't be surprised if Haru and Yuki begin to make more noises.
Haru is very vocal. Not alot, but still quite alot considering she's normally a shy, dainty little girl. <3
Yuki still is yet to become vocal. He seemed to have stopped since being neutered. I do a dook here and a dook there every so often.
♫ ~Old MACDONALD had a farm~ E-I-E-I-O,
and on that farm he had some ferrets~ E-I-E-I-O,
With a Dook Dook here,
And a Dook Dook there,
Here a Dook, There a Dook,
Everywhere a Dook Dook~
Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O~~~ ♪
That is too cute. Then they get all excited about being wet.
Since our upstairs tub has towels and rugs for them plus a bucket of balls, they know water well. Roamy and Mika both jump on the edge of the tub, look at the faucet and wait for me to turn it on.
I might buy some of those children plastic balls (the ones they put in the ball pits).
I want to get some more toys for bath time, to spice things up and so they can become less anxious at bathtimes~ Haru is too small to get in or out herself. Yuki is a pro at getting in the bath and getting out. He's a good climber! I'm actually pretty happy we ferret proofed that second bathroom. We also put puppy pads in the bathrooms since they seem to only go on tiles these days. Its rare though, because Haru and Yuki usually go back to the cage when they need to go.
I wish he didn't have to deal with losing his sight. Happily though, by the time that it happens he will be safe and secure with a good ferrent and friends to help him.
It's really sad and scary to think about. Maybe its just very scary because of the thought of total darkness.
I hope that he at least has his right eye for sight, for a very long time. He's not the only one in the house with poor eye sight, so maybe we can be close buddies.
I was just doing some more research on cataracts in general and cataracts in animals and thought I would share some things I picked up.
"As cataracts mature, they may develop crystalline cracks that look like the cracks in a marble that has been dropped or give a crushed ice appearance."
"Cataract sufferers experience cloudy or fuzzy images and struggle to see shapes, whereas someone with macular degeneration might retain normal peripheral vision but gradually lose central vision."
"Cataracts Due To Deficient Infant Diet/Malnutrition
Star-crossed puppies and kittens that did not receive an adequate diet are also prone to develop cataracts. These are often strays and foundlings whose mother subsisted on whatever scraps she could find. Deficiencies in taurine, arginine, histidine methionine and phenylalanine have all been associated with cataract formation in young animals." Since this says puppies and kittens i'm not sure if it can relate to ferret cataracts, but its still an interesting thing. I never thought they could come up from poor nutrition while growing up.
"Cataracts Due To Eye Injury
When a cataract forms in a single eye, it is often due to a prior eye injury. Injuries that damaged the circulatory system of fluids within the eye or the strands that hold the lenses in place can all lead to cataracts."
"Cataracts Due To Eye Inflammations
Diseases that result in inflammation of the anterior chamber (uveitis) of your pet's eye can result in cataracts. In cats, feline infectious peritonitis , Feline leukemia and Feline AIDs can all result in cataract formation."
"Many health professionals suggest giving your pet an anti-oxidant supplement to slow the development and progression of cataracts. Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol acetate) and vitamin C (ascorbic acid) are easily purchased and do not taste bad to your pet. They can be dripped and crushed on its regular food. . Both these anti-oxidants seem to slow the progression of age-related changes of all kinds in animals and people." This may not be the same with Ferrets also, since that entire article sounds more focused on cats and dogs, however I think that a good natural raw diet would help with the cataract in general. Hopefully I have no issues with redness or inflammation. ;u; I already am aware of if I see anything like that to go to the vet. (http://www.2ndchance.info/cataract.htm)
Okay, so the oxtail is mostly off the menu? I'm going to link this thread and you can see how the ox conversation went. Mentors are still posting to it. Let me know if you can't see it. It's on the Mentors board:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18943/oxen
At this stage possibly yes. They seemed to really love the meat, so I might get it again for the muscle meat, but as for bone I would say no. Alot of the bones had a nice amount of marrow in it also. I was trying to get some, but had no luck. ha. I might do some research on it. ^^
Also I cannot view the thread since it says I have no permission~ ^^
The ferrents who are so nervous or just don't really believe it will happen have the most trouble.
Maybe they sense that in us and follow along with how we think.
I think I also already had a thought that this would happen. It seems to happen with most new pets.
I remember the similar thing happening when I moved my border collie from Echuca to Melton, and then when I brought some ratties home. I think in a way, its kind of like common sense for animals to have stress poopies. When haru and yuki had theirs, it cleared up after a couple of days (then a couple of weeks since they started going on complete raw).
You mentioned something similar when it comes to encouraging through thoughts. I think it was something like sending messages through thoughts (Ferret Telepathy~?) , but not literally speaking but rather that they pick up on the energy and become more encourages to try the foods. Its actually a really interesting thing. It also seems to happen alot with positive energy, like if you think positive, positive things will happen. (most of the time. haha)^^ I think its best not to think of 'believing that they will or will not' but instead either think or verbally say something like "yummy food~ Eat up~ You know you wanna~"
Oh I read this article a while ago. Its really interesting and I believe that all animals have a similar kind of ability.
news.discovery.com/animals/pets/dogs-are-likely-born-with-canine-telepathy-110609.htm
I also found an interesting thing from a book. (The Sense of Being Stared At, by Rupert Sheldrake)
"Telepathy occurs in animals of many different species. How widespread is it? And how far back are its evolutionary origins?
A variety of domesticated animals pick up on human thoughts and intentions telepathically, especially dogs, cats, horses and parrots. There are also scattered reports about telepathy in rabbits, ferrets, hand reared lambs, cockatiels, parakeets, budgerigars, mynah birds, and pet hens and geese.
All these animals are either mammals or birds. I am not aware of any strong evidence of pet reptiles picking up on human thoughts and intentions, nor amphibia , nor fish. Among insects, hives of bees are sometimes said to react to the death of their owners, but the available evidence is not very strong.
Through my appeals for information in a variety of beekeepers' journals (including Scottish Beekeeper and L'Abeille de France) I have received only three firsthand reports of bees swarming soon after the death of their keeper at times of the year when swarming would be unusual. Some beekeepers are skeptical about stories of bees reacting to the death of their owners; they have also dismiss as superstition the formerly widespread custom of telling the bees that their keeper has died.
Leaving bees aside, and leaving open the question of possible telepathy between people and reptiles, the vast majority of cases of human-animal telepathy involve domesticated mammals and birds. How has human-animal telepathy arisen?
Has telepathy in domesticated mammals and birds evolved only because of human influence? Or are animals of these species telepathic with each other in the wild? Dogs have been domesticated for a very long time, maybe as much as one hundred thousand years. Cats and horses were domesticated more recently, probably about five thousand years ago. In these species, telepathy could perhaps have evolved through interactions with humans over many generations. There would be have been plenty of scope for natural or even deliberate selection. The argument does not apply to parrots. Many parrots kept as pets today were captured in the wild when young and had no domesticated ancestors. The importation of wild-caught African Grey parrots into the United States was banned only in 1993, and birds currently in captivity are, at most, only one or two generations removed from the wild.
Many breeders still breed with wild-caught African Greys. Telepathic communications between people and parrots cannot be explained by so many generations of genetic selection under domestication. In addition, some wild animals raised by human beings form strong bonds with their human guardians, and even after being returned to the wild they may retain their telepathic abilities from people. Cats, Dogs, Horses, and Parrots are generally more sensitive to telepathic influences than their human companions. This asymmetry is clearly apparent on my database, where in June 2012 there were 3,715 cases of animals reacting telepathically to humans, as opposed to 492 vice versa. In random surveys in Britain and America, more pets were telepathic than their owners, according to the owners themselves.
Thus telepathy in non-human animals does not seem to be a special feature of domestication. Perhaps animals of many species are telepathic with other members of their social group under natural conditions. The manifestation of telepathy under domestication seems most likely to be related to telepathic abilities already present in the animals' wild forebears."
I thought I would have shared it since it relates to the subject, kind of. Its also quite an interesting thing to think about. Animals are so intelligent.
He is overexcited right now. When he bites down hard, walk away for two minutes. That is what Haru or Yuki will do. This will teach him social skills.
Our Wynstan is the only one who gets overexcited and bites down. Then he bites down further. You can really feel his jaw muscles. He is such a sweet gentle boy but I think he may be a bit special.
I can say from experience now, that compared to Yuki, Beavis isn't that bad. ;u; Yuki was crazy when we first brought him home. He was so excited, it was almost like he's been fed drugs or something. (What was in that kibble... Oh gosh... seriously thinking about that now, anything can literally be in that stuff, but thats another topic) Beavis has never bitten down or drawn blood so he's already aware at least that biting that hard is a no no. He's just quite hard when you hand play with him. Which is normal. He's quite smart and tends to listen to me like Yuki when it gets too hard. They're so intelligent. I don't know how many times I've had the need to point that out, even though everyone knows it anyway. Maybe I've just had some luck. I've read so many people having issues with biting and here I am, only latch bitten twice (once each from Haru and Yuki) and have never been bitten to the point of drawing blood, or biting down hard in general since ... wow... I can't remember. Many many weeks. I'm not going to jinx myself though, because I still keep in mind that I could get bitten alittle too hard again with Beavis. But at the moment, I'm just starting to get a feel to how he plays and he's going to learn what its an acceptable play bite for us. ^^ I honestly don't mind the play biting. Kittens and cats do it, Dogs even do it, so I see why ferrets shouldn't be able to either. Its all about play and having fun (He just has to pick up on whats good for us to be able to play) Its only been a day, or two now so I still have alot to learn about little Beavis. Sometimes I wonder about his past, I guess it happens with rescues, but it really doesn't matter since its all about his future full of fun. Yuki has a habit of nipping at times. He's a cheeky boy. I almost ended up with a Septum (nose) piercing the other night. It was a light nip, like how I've been telling him is acceptable, however its not like I can always explain about sensitive areas. hahahha. It hurt for a second and I was laughing because it got a nerve that made my eyes tear up. Awhh Little Wynstan! Haru did the same and she's usually not the bitey type. When you get past the slight pain of it, it actually is quite amazing how strong those little jaws are. Its also amazing because if they really wanted to, they could vary well break out bones or cause alot of damage. I've heard those horror stories and it makes me sad that people tend to see one bad story, and then blame the entire species. Humans have done alot worse. We've sent species extinct, and thats a really big and bad thing. ;n; There's always reasons behind those horror stories too.
It's like picking your battles. They only have the one way to invite you to play and they don't know that our skin is softer than theirs. You might use teaser toys or blankets for awhile. Play but keep your hands away. Good luck with the toes.
In my opinion, he is just building his bond with you. I wouldn't use a sin bin or punish him. It's too early and he won't understand.
Find a simple phrase like "No Bite" and say it in a stern voice. Use the exact same phrase each time. Then put him down or walk away. Always come back and resume play after the two minutes. He'll catch on.
My personality prevents me from running and hiding behind teaser toys most of the time I feel that its more effective just to get in there when you're 100% positive you can be mentally prepared incase of bites. Its kind of like what was mentioned earlier with the thoughts. Its actually so crazy how much that actually works. I was afraid of Yuki after I was latch bitten. I don't think I admitted that at the time. It took me 3 or so days to let it heal up some more and for me to mentally prepare myself to face him again. If you're not 100% prepared, animals pick up on it and take advantage of it. I was scolded alot when I used to work with horses. I actually remember one time being told that if I wasn't confident, then I should just go home and even forget about mucking out stalls. It was quite harsh, But now I really understand the reason behind it. ^^ I went out and even bough that apple bitter stuff, which is wasting away in the ferret room somewhere. I used it once or twice then gave up. I think I also got gloves and gave up. I decided it was just better to face him and if he was going to bite me that I would endure it. I guess its kind of a very brave decision, but it was more effective than using the bitter apple or the gloves. 3 warnings were enough, then Carrier for 2 minutes. I never even used the scruff method because I don't believe in trying to intimidate him in such a way. (I'll also admit, He did bite me again in retaliation to scruffing, so I decided to just not do it.) I think his high score for carrier time out was at least 15 in one hour. It took 2-3 weeks and he stopped. He must have gotten the hint that biting or nipping was not going to happen with me. I even let him play bite alittle harder, but I actually believe now that he's come eye to eye with me, kind of like a respect thing. Now he's a softy. He's still playful and a handful, but I could rub his belly without getting bitten. ;u; Can you believe that we even had a single thought on rehoming him ? Turns out it was a human problem, not a ferret problem and after giving him time and lots of love, respect and time, he's now the perfect snuggle buddy.
Aren't they adorable when they are vocal? Don't be surprised if Haru and Yuki begin to make more noises.
Haru is very vocal. Not alot, but still quite alot considering she's normally a shy, dainty little girl. <3
Yuki still is yet to become vocal. He seemed to have stopped since being neutered. I do a dook here and a dook there every so often.
♫ ~Old MACDONALD had a farm~ E-I-E-I-O,
and on that farm he had some ferrets~ E-I-E-I-O,
With a Dook Dook here,
And a Dook Dook there,
Here a Dook, There a Dook,
Everywhere a Dook Dook~
Old MacDonald had a farm E-I-E-I-O~~~ ♪
That is too cute. Then they get all excited about being wet.
Since our upstairs tub has towels and rugs for them plus a bucket of balls, they know water well. Roamy and Mika both jump on the edge of the tub, look at the faucet and wait for me to turn it on.
I might buy some of those children plastic balls (the ones they put in the ball pits).
I want to get some more toys for bath time, to spice things up and so they can become less anxious at bathtimes~ Haru is too small to get in or out herself. Yuki is a pro at getting in the bath and getting out. He's a good climber! I'm actually pretty happy we ferret proofed that second bathroom. We also put puppy pads in the bathrooms since they seem to only go on tiles these days. Its rare though, because Haru and Yuki usually go back to the cage when they need to go.
I wish he didn't have to deal with losing his sight. Happily though, by the time that it happens he will be safe and secure with a good ferrent and friends to help him.
It's really sad and scary to think about. Maybe its just very scary because of the thought of total darkness.
I hope that he at least has his right eye for sight, for a very long time. He's not the only one in the house with poor eye sight, so maybe we can be close buddies.
I was just doing some more research on cataracts in general and cataracts in animals and thought I would share some things I picked up.
"As cataracts mature, they may develop crystalline cracks that look like the cracks in a marble that has been dropped or give a crushed ice appearance."
"Cataract sufferers experience cloudy or fuzzy images and struggle to see shapes, whereas someone with macular degeneration might retain normal peripheral vision but gradually lose central vision."
"Cataracts Due To Deficient Infant Diet/Malnutrition
Star-crossed puppies and kittens that did not receive an adequate diet are also prone to develop cataracts. These are often strays and foundlings whose mother subsisted on whatever scraps she could find. Deficiencies in taurine, arginine, histidine methionine and phenylalanine have all been associated with cataract formation in young animals." Since this says puppies and kittens i'm not sure if it can relate to ferret cataracts, but its still an interesting thing. I never thought they could come up from poor nutrition while growing up.
"Cataracts Due To Eye Injury
When a cataract forms in a single eye, it is often due to a prior eye injury. Injuries that damaged the circulatory system of fluids within the eye or the strands that hold the lenses in place can all lead to cataracts."
"Cataracts Due To Eye Inflammations
Diseases that result in inflammation of the anterior chamber (uveitis) of your pet's eye can result in cataracts. In cats, feline infectious peritonitis , Feline leukemia and Feline AIDs can all result in cataract formation."
"Many health professionals suggest giving your pet an anti-oxidant supplement to slow the development and progression of cataracts. Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol acetate) and vitamin C (ascorbic acid) are easily purchased and do not taste bad to your pet. They can be dripped and crushed on its regular food. . Both these anti-oxidants seem to slow the progression of age-related changes of all kinds in animals and people." This may not be the same with Ferrets also, since that entire article sounds more focused on cats and dogs, however I think that a good natural raw diet would help with the cataract in general. Hopefully I have no issues with redness or inflammation. ;u; I already am aware of if I see anything like that to go to the vet. (http://www.2ndchance.info/cataract.htm)
Okay, so the oxtail is mostly off the menu? I'm going to link this thread and you can see how the ox conversation went. Mentors are still posting to it. Let me know if you can't see it. It's on the Mentors board:
holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18943/oxen
At this stage possibly yes. They seemed to really love the meat, so I might get it again for the muscle meat, but as for bone I would say no. Alot of the bones had a nice amount of marrow in it also. I was trying to get some, but had no luck. ha. I might do some research on it. ^^
Also I cannot view the thread since it says I have no permission~ ^^