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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 6:17:43 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 9:07:48 GMT -5
Our vacation was great. I'll tell you more about it, after I catch up.
How is Haru? Any better? I see you had some good help. A big Thanks to all the Mentors who stepped in. Isn't @machan, one smart lady?
Hugs to our Haru and Yuki for now. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2015 17:05:24 GMT -5
Our vacation was great. We had alot of fun. My sister in law, Lisa is the craziest and funniest person that I know. We ran around the ship giggling and pranking everyone. It was a blast.
Alaska is simply stunning. The new ice is blue,blue,blue. It was cold, but magnificent. Somehow, I managed to be the only one who didn't see a whale close up. We had a whale watching trip planned, but the tour guide messed up and we missed it.
Victoria BC is gorgeous. There are flowers everywhere and lovely Victorian homes. I would love to to have spent more time there.
Okay, catch me up... Tell me more about the new little one. Does he have cataracts, how old is he. We'll talk about intros when he comes home. Haru is likely to pick on him since he will smell different and I believe they smell any illness and it's a natural instinct to cull a defect.
Yuki will also want to let him know who is in charge. Intros may be rough, but we'll worry about that when it happens. You know that in Ferret Math Two plus One equals Four or Five. (giggle) We can talk about scent mapping for him.
How is Haru doing? How is Yuki?
Are adult mice and rats a good alternative? It would be easier and in our budget to buy them in bulk.
That would work nicely. We would adjust the organ meals to include the Whole Prey. Do you remember how to do that? The mice and rats would come frozen, correct? You don't ever want to feed a live rat to a ferret.
"Ferrets have a very short intestinal tract and do best on a high protein dry food diet - a premium quality kitten dry food is okay, otherwise some places stock specific ferret dry foods. The other foods should be used as "treats". They often can't consume enough calories when fed just meat based diets. "
Vets mean well. They see too many pet owners who don't take the time to learn a properly balanced diet or why the owner is feeding what it feeds. The receive short classes on exotic diets and the studies are funded by pet food companies. Plus they can see the food in their office for extra income. Most owners trust their vet and want to follow their vet's advice. I can almost understand it.
You'll know better and be able to give an educated answer about their menu plan.
Could you catch me up and give me a recap. I'm rereading your threads but want to hear it from you.
I'm glad to be back. I missed everyone. :wave3:
Oh wait...it's been a few weeks since a pop quiz. :heehee:
1. List 3 organs aside from liver.
2. Organs should consist of approximately how much liver, and how much "other" organ?
3. What percent of the diet should be organ?
4. How many meals a week should be organ, and of those meals how much needs to be liver?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 6:21:12 GMT -5
Our vacation was great. We had alot of fun. My sister in law, Lisa is the craziest and funniest person that I know. We ran around the ship giggling and pranking everyone. It was a blast.Alaska is simply stunning. The new ice is blue,blue,blue. It was cold, but magnificent.Somehow, I managed to be the only one who didn't see a whale close up. We had a whale watching trip planned, but the tour guide messed up and we missed it.Victoria BC is gorgeous. There are flowers everywhere and lovely Victorian homes. I would love to to have spent more time there.Ah!! It sounded like it was so much fun!! I'm so envious! I would love to see Alaska one day~ I've seen it on those vacation/holiday shows where they hold these tour like things and they make me drool everytime. I just realised I watch those holiday shows alot. I love seeing other beautiful places on tv, and I can only just imagine how much better they'd be in person! Okay, catch me up...Tell me more about the new little one. Does he have cataracts, how old is he.We'll talk about intros when he comes home. Haru is likely to pick on him since he will smell different and I believe they smell any illness and it's a natural instinct to cull a defect.Ah! The Rescue I'm adopting.. I received a message early this morning before I left to go shopping and was told there seemed to be a suspected cataract in one of his eyes. They had taken him to the vet at 5pm this evening and I'm still waiting for a message on how it went. She said that she would understand if I wanted the deposit back (I placed a $90 deposit for the adoption beforehand) and I explained that I'm still 100% keen on adopting him. Hopefully there are no underlying problems for the poor little guy. I've done alot of reading on the matter as well even though I have experience since my dog has a cataract in the left of her eye. I was doing some research and apparently cataracts are most commonly seen in older ferrets around 6+ years old or so. I posted a photo on the fb group when I first decided 100% that I was going to adopt him and I was given alot of helpful information and advice. I'll keep him separate for the first week. They are suppose to be having a meet and greet also, But it will be one on one per ferret. (like Haru and him then Yuki and him etc) I'm also thinking it would be a good idea to have them stay in their carrier for a few minutes with him around outside of it so they cans see and smell him. Then introducing by holding them, etc. ^^ The rescue probably has their own way of introducing ferrets to eachother, so I still want to take some precautions. (Or I could be wrong and they probably won't meet until they get home, But I'll still be bringing them along for a ride anyway!). ^^ Is it normally females who behave in that way? I'll be very cautious with them. I wouldn't want any ferret to hurt themselves. Yuki will also want to let him know who is in charge. Intros may be rough, but we'll worry about that when it happens.You know that in Ferret Math Two plus One equals Four or Five. (giggle)We can talk about scent mapping for him.I should be picking him up next tuesday if all goes well. What signs should I pick up on if Haru or Yuki behave in a negative way or vice versa? For now 3 ferrets are our max. (for now, at least for our current leased house hahhahahahahhahahahahhahaha <.<) How is Haru doing? How is Yuki?Both have been doing very well!! I've been sticking to my plan, other than the quail of course. They both have started shedding (spring) Fur, Everywhere. Literally! I can't even sniff them without getting a strand or four in my nose or face. Dx We started brushing them also, and that seems to be helping alot. Haru made a coughing sound which I thought could have been a hair ball but sherry cleared things up for me. ^^ Had a small scare with Yuki recently where he had what seemed to be 'blood' but turns out it was organ day... ha.... My roommate was freaking out but luckily false alarm. They had their first adult mouse while you were away and it went reaaallly well! Incase you haven't seen the video of Haru. She started with the head. Oh my. instagram.com/p/6ezNVmPwsJ/ (Sorry it its too adorable. Haru has a cute habit of looking adorable while eating.) Anyway, It took her a while to finish it. She got through the head, rested, ate half more, rested, came back and finished everything!! Same with Yuki. I ended up slicing the abdomen of the mice and put oil in it first round. After that they started eating them at their own time and literally by the end of the day the mice where gone! I was suppose to go to a butcher in the next town today but travel arrangements changed at the last minute so I had to stick with shopping at a local supermarket. So the plan may have to differ slightly this fortnight. I was also working out my own plan and deciding to buy on my second payment of every month to buy meat and mice in bulk. ^^ That would work nicely. We would adjust the organ meals to include the Whole Prey.Do you remember how to do that?The mice and rats would come frozen, correct?You don't ever want to feed a live rat to a ferret.Frozen yes! But since this is part of the topic, It's technically not 'illegal' to live feed in australia. (I'm against live feeding since I find it cruel, and unsafe for both sides.) We have codes of practice, but codes of practice are not enforceable by law and are therefore recommendations only. I thought I would share that since I found it surprising. Anyway, I would never be able to do live feeding. I've owned rodents in the past and they were lovely gentle creatures so i could never let myself do something so cruel. But even the most gentlest of creatures can manage a very nasty bite in retaliation if a carnivore were to happen to miss its killshot. I used to own a couple of mice and both were so gentle and perfectly well mannered little cuties. I checked on them one day and found the other had gruesomely killed its cage mate. Vets mean well. They see too many pet owners who don't take the time to learn a properly balanced diet or why the owner is feeding what it feeds. The receive short classes on exotic diets and the studies are funded by pet food companies. Plus they can see the food in their office for extra income. Most owners trust their vet and want to follow their vet's advice. I can almost understand it.
It's also very understandable since Ferrets in general aren't that 'common' as an exotic pet over here. Honestly, It defeats the point of the ferret being an obligate carnivore if they were to eat kibble. At least now, I'm more aware on ingredients as well! Haru's teeth looked horrible and that has no other explanation but being from the kibble the breeder was feeding her. Now, her teeth has improved alot! There's so many improvements I've seen also. I could never ever let them go back on kibble. *shudder* You'll know better and be able to give an educated answer about their menu plan.My ferret journal is filled with all my information. I should show it to my vet next visit~;u; Could you catch me up and give me a recap. I'm rereading your threads but want to hear it from you.Basic recap: Haru and Yuki started shedding while you were away. Haru has gotten darker slightly and now has a little mask. Yuki Had a lot of oils secreting at one stage but is now nice and light creamy. Had some downfalls with finding Quail and other Bone in meats. Now I'm literally unable to get any in my area. I have one shop online that I could buy from, But it would cost too much for bulk. (;n;) I arranged a plan with my roommate to buy Whole frozen mice in bulk for possibly the main bone in meat alternative. (Purchasing on the 15th of every month, starting this september. We plan on getting Adult Mice and Hopper or Adult Rats) Haru and Yuki's Plan Since you left and up until today. Sat: (M+B) 15th Aug. AM: Ox Tail Meat Only.PM: Chicken Necks.Sun: (M+B) 16th Aug. AM: Pork Slivers.PM: Chicken Necks.Mon: (O+M+B) 17th Aug. AM: Chicken Necks. Whole Mice.PM: Chicken Liver/ Beef Kidney / Ox Heart.(I semi-pureed the organ meal and had chunks of heart in it.)(Due to delivery delay at the time for the mice order, I was planning on switching Mon and Tues around but I actually received the mice on monday morning, a day early which was actually great!! So They got mice for breakfast!) Tues:(B) 18th Aug. AM: Chicken Necks.PM: Lamb shanks... (the bone was quite hard to chop up since it was too big and thick for the ferrets. I tried everything to get it to a good size for them to eat, but turns out the blender works to crush most of it up. I threw away any pieces that were a choking hazard since I was paranoid. hahaha!)Wed:(M+B+Egg) 19th Aug. AM: Beef Mince, Egg. (I added a tsp of egg shell powder) PM: Quail. Whole Mice.Thu: (M+B) 20th Aug. AM: Chicken Necks.PM: Ox Heart.Fri: (O+M+B) 21st Aug. AM: Chicken Liver/ Beef Kidney / Ox Heart.
(Gave alittle extra, Beef Mince ) PM: Quail. Whole Mice.
Sat: (M+B) 22nd Aug. AM: Pork Slivers.PM: Chicken Necks.Sun: (M+B) 23rd Aug. AM: Lamb Slivers.PM: Chicken Necks.Mon: (B) 24th Aug. AM: Whole Mice.PM: Chicken Necks.Tues:(O+M+B) 25th Aug. AM: Chicken Liver/ Lamb Kidney / Ox Heart.PM: Whole Mice.Wed:(M+B+Egg) 26th Aug. (today!!) AM: Chicken Necks, Egg. PM: Quail. Turkey Mince. (Alittle bit of Lamb Heart as a treat)
I was really wanting to get some turkey wings today. Apparently there's a butcher in melton (next town) that may possibly have them and maybe quail. Its really sad that my local supermarket and a few online shops have let me down so far but I won't stop until I'm sure can possibly get any. My dad was suppose to take me but something came up so I had to settle for a local supermarket. I went to Coles today, which is not the usual place for shopping for me. I asked for Quail and they had none and don't get any. I then asked for turkey wings and they only had prepacked marinated ones, which Is a no go for obvious reasons. I was speaking with the lady for a good 20 minutes about ferrets and meats. Eventhough I couldn't find certain meats that I really wanted to get, she mentioned that I could always call up our local abattoir. (Which I had no idea we had.) She said they probably wouldn't have poultry, but its still worth calling since they may have contacts or could advice me on where I could find certain places. Anyway, My next target is Tasman Butchers in Melton since on their website they mentioned they had Quail and Turkey Wings. I couldn't see Turkey necks, but hey, They had wings and I'll settle for that so fingers crossed they have it in a fortnight. I actually might call them up tomorrow and ask! (I emailed but got no reply.... yet that is. I actually doubt I'll get a reply. They're usually really busy so its understandable.) Okay... So things I bought today! Since I was unable to get bone in meats, I had to settle for Chicken necks again. The person I was speaking to showed me Turkey shanks so I bought them and found out the bone was quite thick. But since it had a good lot of meat and fat on it, It won't go to waste and I also chopped up the bone as well!! I got Turkey mince, Two lots because it was on special and I was hoping to keep some stocked up. I bought Lamb Hearts and Ox Hearts. (3 little lamb hearts and 2 large ox hearts. The size's where amazing!) Oh I got your favourite!! Gizzards!! (Two lots of chicken gizzards.) I think I got some other things also but Its late and I'm about to sleep so i'll update them later on. I'll have to rearrange the plan for this week/fortnight. I'm going to go through everything in the morning and then type it up. ^^ I'm glad to be back. I missed everyone.:wave3:Time flies!! Welcome back!! Oh wait...it's been a few weeks since a pop quiz. :heehee:Ahh! I'm alittle sleepy but I'll do my best. I really wanted to reply because I was busy all day and If I didn't reply I might not reply until tomorrow night. So I'll do my best!! ^u^ 1. List 3 organs aside from liver.Pancreas, Kidneys & Thymus. 2. Organs should consist of approximately how much liver, and how much "other" organ?5% Liver and 5% other organ depending on how much they eat in one week. 3. What percent of the diet should be organ?
10%? (5% liver, 5% other organ?) 4. How many meals a week should be organ, and of those meals how much needs to be liver?Two organ meals per week, with meal 1# consisting of Liver and one other organ and 2# ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ. My laptops about to die. I might double check those answers in the morning. Bye bye for now!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 7:09:53 GMT -5
Oh! I just got word about the rescue ferret. So the vet appointment went well and the vet put dye in his eye to check for trauma and found no trauma so it's definitely a cataract. h*ll eventually go blind and I was told it's only one eye and that the vet said it won't stop him from living a normal happy life. I was also told that if I see swelling or redness in the whites of his eye to go to the vet for eye drops.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 19:08:02 GMT -5
Ah!! It sounded like it was so much fun!! I'm so envious! I would love to see Alaska one day~ I've seen it on those vacation/holiday shows where they hold these tour like things and they make me drool everytime. I just realised I watch those holiday shows alot. I love seeing other beautiful places on tv, and I can only just imagine how much better they'd be in person!
I love to travel. It's harder now because I hate leaving the little ones. My years in the Air Force sent me all over the world and I loved it. I hope you get to travel to all those wonderful places that you see on TV. I've done alot of reading on the matter as well even though I have experience since my dog has a cataract in the left of her eye. I was doing some research and apparently cataracts are most commonly seen in older ferrets around 6+ years old or so.
Is it normally females who behave in that way? I'll be very cautious with them. I wouldn't want any ferret to hurt themselves.
I'm glad that you are still planning on bringing him home. He will be happy with you and it's so hard to find a home for someone with any health issues. Females usually are the Alpha and it's their job to let the new one know, who is in charge. In my house, Juliet is the Alpha but Roamy is her Knight and he protects his Queen. He's very rough on newcomers. Our most experienced ferrents say to let them work it out. Unless, there is fear pooping or drawing blood, they work it out faster, when we don't interfere. I can't do that. Roamy is too rough. He hunts for them, he bottlebrushes his tail, they poop, he shakes them around their neck and drags them across the floor (that's normal). I like a slow intro because I don't want a new one to feel they have come home to an unsafe and scarey place. They both have started shedding (spring) Fur, Everywhere. Literally! I can't even sniff them without getting a strand or four in my nose or face. Dx We started brushing them also, and that seems to be helping alot. Haru made a coughing sound which I thought could have been a hair ball but sherry cleared things up for me. ^^ Had a small scare with Yuki recently where he had what seemed to be 'blood' but turns out it was organ day... ha.... My roommate was freaking out but luckily false alarm.
Brushing will help alot. Make sure they each get an egg or two a week. I saw that scare on FB. Your poor roomie must have been totally freaked out. You could have some fun with that, but it wouldn't be nice and your roomie has been so good with them. I know the term hairball is not correct, but I do wish we could come up with some other way to say it. It's one of those terms that we need to all agree on, so it's not confusing to new ferrents. hey had their first adult mouse while you were away and it went reaaallly well! Incase you haven't seen the video of Haru. She started with the head. Oh my. instagram.com/p/6ezNVmPwsJ/ (Sorry it its too adorable. Haru has a cute habit of looking adorable while eating.) Anyway, It took her a while to finish it. She got through the head, rested, ate half more, rested, came back and finished everything!! Same with Yuki. I ended up slicing the abdomen of the mice and put oil in it first round. After that they started eating them at their own time and literally by the end of the day the mice where gone!
You just have two really wonderful eaters. I know they are young but they are excellent eaters and some of the best that I have read about or seen on the forum. You're doing everything right and they are really terrific. :thumbsup: It's also very understandable since Ferrets in general aren't that 'common' as an exotic pet over here. Honestly, It defeats the point of the ferret being an obligate carnivore if they were to eat kibble. At least now, I'm more aware on ingredients as well! Haru's teeth looked horrible and that has no other explanation but being from the kibble the breeder was feeding her. Now, her teeth has improved alot! There's so many improvements I've seen also. I could never ever let them go back on kibble. *shudder*
Back in 2006, when I took my first ferret Ponce to a vet, the vet owned ferrets. He said Ponce's teeth had alot of plaque and didn't tell me how to fix it. We've come along way since then. He even said that Cheerios and raisins were okay in moderation. He was a good vet and young. I'd like to call him now and ask him if he has learned anything new about their diet. Basic recap: Haru and Yuki started shedding while you were away. Haru has gotten darker slightly and now has a little mask. Yuki Had a lot of oils secreting at one stage but is now nice and light creamy. Had some downfalls with finding Quail and other Bone in meats. Now I'm literally unable to get any in my area. I have one shop online that I could buy from, But it would cost too much for bulk. (;n;) I arranged a plan with my roommate to buy Whole frozen mice in bulk for possibly the main bone in meat alternative. (Purchasing on the 15th of every month, starting this september. We plan on getting Adult Mice and Hopper or Adult Rats)
Haru is getting darker and has a mask. That is so cute. She is getting ready for her pretty new spring coat and growing up into a lovely teen female. Yuki sounds like his coat will be gorgeous. I know you're happy to see less oil. I've heard Heather talk about washing oils off of her hobs when they get overly greasy. I'd love to see that. Your menu is looking good. I like the red meat meals, especially since Haru and Yuki are growing still. Lamb shanks would be a rough bone for them. It might make a better muscle meat meal. Turkey or duck would be ideal to make the menu a little less chicken heavy. That's hard to do when you are having problems finding other bone in meals. When I picked up my ferrets from PVO Ferrets, Pam had some visiting breeders. So, I was able to sit with them for awhile and talk. Heather MacNally owns Devon Country ferrets and often has a ferret cam up. She was telling me that she feeds her kits green tripe. She says it has the perfect composition for a Bone In meal. I want to post this to the Mentors board. I already know it's stinky and most ferrets don't care for it, but yours seem to eat everything and it might be a very good option. The white tripe is overprocessed and bleached, avoid that. I'll get back to you on the green tripe opinions. Your organ meals look good. One small suggestion. Your Thursday and Friday meal both had organ and heart. That's not only rich but will make for very loose poops. If you can space them out a little more and follow an organ or heart meal with a Bone In meal, that will give their tummy a rest and make for firmer poops. 1. List 3 organs aside from liver. Pancreas, Kidneys & Thymus.
2. Organs should consist of approximately how much liver, and how much "other" organ? 5% Liver and 5% other organ depending on how much they eat in one week.
3. What percent of the diet should be organ? 10%? (5% liver, 5% other organ?)
4. How many meals a week should be organ, and of those meals how much needs to be liver? Two organ meals per week, with meal 1# consisting of Liver and one other organ and 2# ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ.
1. Very Good! 2. Excellent. You didn't fall for the phrasing of that question and list Heart. Very Very good. 3. Most Excellent. 4. Perfect. You get an A Plus with extra credit for being tired and still doing well. I'm glad the vet visit went well. Does the vet expect the other eye to also develop a cataract? Blindness terrifies me. We have alot of ferrents who deal with it and their ferrets do fine. Sometimes, another ferret will become their seeing eye ferret. That's so sweet to think of one caring for another like that. I'm off to fix everyone some dinner and then read something. I'm almost back on my time and have lost the jet lag. Vacationing is hard work. Give Haru and Yuki a big hug and tell them to be nice to the new boy. What is his name or do you know yet? I'm very proud of you. You're doing wonderful and really deserve alot of credit and respect. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 5:01:52 GMT -5
I love to travel. It's harder now because I hate leaving the little ones. My years in the Air Force sent me all over the world and I loved it. I hope you get to travel to all those wonderful places that you see on TV.I would be the same way! Even when I go down the street I think of my little two at home. Wow you would have seen so many great sceneries in the air force! I'm glad that you are still planning on bringing him home. He will be happy with you and it's so hard to find a home for someone with any health issues.Alot of rescue animals come with past histories and health issues or complications. Most of the time you will have to blindly adopt them with not knowing what their past was like until they came to the rescue or then to your home. I was thinking that way also... it would be so hard to find homes for those with health issues. Its quite sad. I felt like I needed to adopt him, not in the impulsive kind of way. Its a good thing though, especially for him. ;u; He'll be my first ferret rescue adoption. I'm alittle nervous but very excited and happy to be doing something this great. ^u^ I still feel I need to do alot more research and learning on cataracts in ferrets. I think thats part of my personality especially when I bring home a new animal, that I will have to learn everything or mostly everything I can so i can give them a happy and safe home. ^^ Females usually are the Alpha and it's their job to let the new one know, who is in charge.In my house, Juliet is the Alpha but Roamy is her Knight and he protects his Queen. He's very rough on newcomers.It feels so hard to imagine little Haru being the Alpha right now. She's so laid back and so tiny. But she was very feisty towards Yuki when i first brought them home. After they were both desexed, it was the other way around with yuki trying to show who's boss. It was very interesting to watch. They stopped all that now. Our most experienced ferrents say to let them work it out. Unless, there is fear pooping or drawing blood, they work it out faster, when we don't interfere. I can't do that. Roamy is too rough. He hunts for them, he bottlebrushes his tail, they poop, he shakes them around their neck and drags them across the floor (that's normal). I like a slow intro because I don't want a new one to feel they have come home to an unsafe and scarey place.
I was asking about how they do the meet and greet at the rescue and they told me that they generally let them meet in the play area. Let them all run around under supervision. I'm thinking of doing it one at a time, so it doesn't overwhelm any of them. Yuki dragged Haru around (that was after being neutered.) Generally Haru lets him do what ever he wants but if yuki gets too excited she steps in and tells him to calm down. ;u; I'll have to watch Haru, Since she was the one who picked on yuki when I brought them home. Brushing will help alot. Make sure they each get an egg or two a week.I saw that scare on FB. Your poor roomie must have been totally freaked out. You could have some fun with that, but it wouldn't be nice and your roomie has been so good with them.It has helped alot! They were originally getting an egg a week, But I gave them 2 last week. ^^ I was terrified also! I went into ferrmergency mode. (ha ha... It was a typing error but I kept it.) She was literally white faced!! The face Yuki made was hilarious. He was like "What is going on....." I know the term hairball is not correct, but I do wish we could come up with some other way to say it. It's one of those terms that we need to all agree on, so it's not confusing to new ferrents.Sherry told me its called trichobezoars. Trichobezoar is a bezoar formed from hair – an extreme form of hairball. A bezoar can be any mass found in the stomach or intestines. Since hairballs are commonly heard associated with cats and cats being able to regurgitate hairballs from their stomach, I can see why it shouldn't be used to refer to trichobezoars in ferrets. (especially if its said to a newbie who may assume its like cats, and end up leaving it.)Cows and rabbits are also prone to them, but unlike cats, their bodies aren't designed to vomit them up and it can lead to death from the blockage. It's quite interesting to read about. It would technically be a gastrointestinal obstruction or a hair blockage wouldn't it? You just have two really wonderful eaters. I know they are young but they are excellent eaters and some of the best that I have read about or seen on the forum.You're doing everything right and they are really terrific. :thumbsup:They're great most of the time. ^^ Sometimes they take their time with eating certain bone in meats, but they always do their best and i'm very happy for them. Haru's teeth have improved alot too! They used to look yellowish but thats gone down heaps since she started having more bone in meats. Back in 2006, when I took my first ferret Ponce to a vet, the vet owned ferrets. He said Ponce's teeth had alot of plaque and didn't tell me how to fix it. We've come along way since then. He even said that Cheerios and raisins were okay in moderation. He was a good vet and young. I'd like to call him now and ask him if he has learned anything new about their diet.
Oh wow, Cheerios?? Thats a first I'm hearing. I think Vet's over time do learn different ways. When you think about it, there's only so much they learn during their studies, so It would only be natural for them to learn or pick up knowledge as they go. ^^ Haru is getting darker and has a mask. That is so cute. She is getting ready for her pretty new spring coat and growing up into a lovely teen female.Yuki sounds like his coat will be gorgeous. I know you're happy to see less oil.I've heard Heather talk about washing oils off of her hobs when they get overly greasy. I'd love to see that.The mask happened so fast too! It was so great! I cant wait to see their new coats~ >u< Your menu is looking good. I like the red meat meals, especially since Haru and Yuki are growing still. Lamb shanks would be a rough bone for them. It might make a better muscle meat meal. Turkey or duck would be ideal to make the menu a little less chicken heavy. That's hard to do when you are having problems finding other bone in meals.
Yeah, the lamb shanks was a trial and error thing for me. I couldn't tell from looking at the outside so I took a chance and bought them anyway. Now I know they're not a really good choice for a bone in meat. But it never went to waste either, so i didn't really lose anything. ^^ I got alot of turkey this week, so I'll have alot stocked up. I've been putting in a tsp of eggshell to their muscle meats like you suggested. I'll try and get some bone meal in the next couple of weeks. Even if I have to order from overseas, its still a good idea to have some in the cupboard. ^^ Bone in meats are showing to be quite a hard thing to find at the moment, But I'm still hunting around and I may have some good places soon if they do end up having what i need. At least I have a good plan where it comes to the frozen mice. Its also a great thing that they started on mice fairly easy. When I picked up my ferrets from PVO Ferrets, Pam had some visiting breeders. So, I was able to sit with them for awhile and talk. Heather MacNally owns Devon Country ferrets and often has a ferret cam up. She was telling me that she feeds her kits green tripe. She says it has the perfect composition for a Bone In meal. Tripe is the stomach lining isn't it? Thats a completely new thing to me. I might to some research on it also. I want to post this to the Mentors board. I already know it's stinky and most ferrets don't care for it, but yours seem to eat everything and it might be a very good option.The white tripe is overprocessed and bleached, avoid that. I'll get back to you on the green tripe opinions.That would be great! I'm so interested in hearing about it. ^^ Are there different types of tripe? Your organ meals look good. One small suggestion. Your Thursday and Friday meal both had organ and heart. That's not only rich but will make for very loose poops. If you can space them out a little more and follow an organ or heart meal with a Bone In meal, that will give their tummy a rest and make for firmer poops.I'll rearrange the plan and post it below ^^ I didn't even realise until you had pointed that one out. Thanks!! 1. Very Good!2. Excellent. You didn't fall for the phrasing of that question and list Heart. Very Very good.3. Most Excellent.4. Perfect.You get an A Plus with extra credit for being tired and still doing well.Thats great!! I was afraid I may have worded things wrong since I was very sleepy at the time. hahaha. I'm glad the vet visit went well. Does the vet expect the other eye to also develop a cataract?Blindness terrifies me. We have alot of ferrents who deal with it and their ferrets do fine. Sometimes, another ferret will become their seeing eye ferret. That's so sweet to think of one caring for another like that.I felt very sad to hear it, but it can happen and there's not much that can be done. ;n; I heard that surgery is not necessary since its expensive and can be risky for little ferrets. Its only in one eye, so He'll eventually become partially blind. I asked if there was chances of possible complete blindness and they're not sure, however the vet is 100% certain it will not stop him from leading a normal happy life. Even with a partial blindness at this stage, would he start to use scent mapping? Seeing eye ferret sounds so adorable. >3< I'm off to fix everyone some dinner and then read something. I'm almost back on my time and have lost the jet lag. Vacationing is hard work. Give Haru and Yuki a big hug and tell them to be nice to the new boy. What is his name or do you know yet?
Have fun!! Yuki and Haru also get lots of cuddles! My roommate is into massage therapy and Yuki got a free message yesterday. He was in her arms and so relaxed. It was almost like a completely different ferret! He had no name before the rescue, and they've been calling him by Beavis. However, we've decided on calling the new boy, Nero. (νερό) Which is pronounced (Neh- Ro) The ro is like tho, but you roll the r's. ^^ Its greek and means water. Actually it is the literal word for Water. We thought it was a lovely name for a rescue ferret, especially him, who can adapt and recover easily.
I'm very proud of you. You're doing wonderful and really deserve alot of credit and respect.:wave3:Thank you! Oh I'll reply with a rearranged plan soon. Yuki wants to play at the moment hahahaha. I'll be back soon~
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 6:16:18 GMT -5
Ah!! I accidentally went back on the browser and lost my plan. ;A; Time to retype it... ahhh. So frustrating!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 7:20:00 GMT -5
How does this plan look? I tried to put the Heart meal between Bone in meat meals. Would that even it out? Before I had it after a Organ+Heart meal. I'll probably won't be able to get anything other than chicken for bone in meat until the 15 of September. (I only have 2 mice left, so i was saving those for next week,) Unless, I use the Turkey shank bone thats crushed. Is it better though for them to crush the bone themselves (like how they would for quail or chicken wings etc) or does the bone brushing their teeth still work if the bone is crushed? I could probably buy more Turkey shanks until the 15th if thats the case and simply crush the bone. Just so I can use less chicken. I was also thinking of using the gizzards also, but those are chicken. I am able to get lamb or pork racks or ribs, but after trying the lamb racks, I found that those bones are much harder to crush, so I probably won't get those. The turkey shanks are pretty okay for crushing! ^^
The 15th of Sep, is my second payment so I planned that if I can buy mice or rats in bulk at that date, I would have them on the following Thursday 17th. I'll also be ordering enough to last the entire month until the next order arrives so it works out great.
I'm also hoping by then, I can figure out that if Tasman meats has any quail or Turkey wings. Are Turkey wings an okay size for ferrets though? Can Turkey wings be a good alternative to chicken wings? I have a feeling that Turkey wings would be alittle more than Chicken wings in price, but its still good. They say on their website that they have: Duck, Goat, Poussin, Rabbit, Quail, Turkey. They have many stores, so the things that they have available may vary from store to store. I'm just hoping they have some things I can get at least until our local butcher opens up next year. (Yes, Finally we're going to have a butcher again!!!)
Sat: (M+B) AM: Gizzard and Turkey Mince. (1/2 and 1/2 possibly) PM: Chicken Necks.
Sun: (M+B) AM: Beef Mince. PM: Chicken Necks.
Mon: (O+M+B) AM: Lamb Liver/ Beef Kidney / Ox Heart. PM: Whole Mice.
Tue: (M+B) AM: Lamb Heart & Turkey Shank (Meat Only). PM: Chicken Necks.
Wed:(M+B+Egg) AM: Lamb Rack (meat only), Egg. PM: Chicken Wings.
Thu: (B) AM: Chicken Necks (& or) Crushed Turkey Shank Meat+ Bone. PM: Chicken Wings.
Fri: (O+M+B) AM: Lamb Liver/ Beef Kidney / Ox Heart. PM: Chicken Wings.
Is it possible to do Half and Half with some meals? Like for example how I put the Necks (& or) Turkey shank meat and bone? or the Gizzard with Turkey mince?
Oh I also was going to ask. You know how they get one egg a week or so. Can I blend the entire egg, shell and all? Would that help with protein? I've been adding 1/2 to 1 tsp of egg shell to their muscle meats also. ^^
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 10:13:21 GMT -5
Its quite sad. I felt like I needed to adopt him, not in the impulsive kind of way. Its a good thing though, especially for him. ;u; He'll be my first ferret rescue adoption. I'm alittle nervous but very excited and happy to be doing something this great. ^u^ I still feel I need to do alot more research and learning on cataracts in ferrets. I think thats part of my personality especially when I bring home a new animal, that I will have to learn everything or mostly everything I can so i can give them a happy and safe home. ^^
You made a connection with him. If we ignore a connection, then we always wonder about the little ones. I know we can't take them all home, but some are simply meant to be yours. I've been looking into cataracts also. The prognosis isn't good. There doesn't appear to be any way to reverse it in ferrets. Humans can have cataracts removed, but I don't know if anyone is doing it for ferrets and I would be reluctant to put an older ferret through any surgery. Sherry told me its called trichobezoars. Trichobezoar is a bezoar formed from hair – an extreme form of hairball. A bezoar can be any mass found in the stomach or intestines.
Hairball is so much easier to spell. (giggle) That's good to know, Thanks. The tern Hairball is Bitbyter's pet peeve. That would be great! I'm so interested in hearing about it. ^^ Are there different types of tripe?
Tripe is the first three chambers of a cow's stomach. The green tripe is simply the tripe untouched or unprocessed. White tripe is bleached and processed. I think that is the only two options. I did hear back about it. I'll post what I heard. Here is my question in part. In an analysis of a sample of green tripe by a Woodson-Tenant Lab in Atlanta, Georgia, it was discovered that the calcium:phosphorous ratio is 1:1, the overall pH is on the acidic side which is better for digestion, protein is 15.1, fat 11.7 and it contained the essential fatty acids, Linoleic and Linolenic, in their recommended proportions. Also discovered, was the presence of Lactic Acid Bacteria. Lactic Acid Bacteria, also known as Lactobacillus Acidophilus, is the good intestinal bacteria. It is the main ingredient in probiotics.
Finally, because of it’s rubbery texture, serving it in large chunks also aids the ferret in strengthening it’s jaw muscles and has an added benefit as a form of ferret dental floss.
I know it's stinky and most ferrets will avoid it, but what do you all think? Could this be an additional bone in meal and should we recommend it? We have some new to raw ferrents who have issues finding quail and other easy bone in meals.
Bitbyter responded: I think you meant "boneless" meal. Green tripe has a lot of benefits BUT many / most ferrets will actually run from it. If you can get them to eat it then great but we don't mention it since so many just refuse. They would get the same benefit from eating whole prey. They occasionally will eat some of the digestive tract but not often. Once the bacteria set up shop in the gut the only reason to reintroduce it (as far as I know) would be after a round of antibiotics. Heather responded: Heather McNally's kits are raised on it, so they all eat it. She has mentioned feeding it in the couple of times we've discussed diet. I would feed it if I could get my ferrets to eat it. I always have 100 lbs or more in the freezer. Wolfhounds thrive on the stuff. The ferrets actually treat the stuff the same way they react when they step in cold water. My biggest concern with adding it to our 'things to feed' is people would feed the stuff they find in the grocery store. It has 0 nutritional value. In fact we used to use it as empty calories for dogs who were so hungry when you were trying to strip weight off them. We can certainly add it to the list of foods to feed. I've heard a couple of other people who feed it and it's certainly a very good dietary addition ciao Sherry responded: I wish I could get mine to eat it as well. I think most raw feeders consider it a muscle meat meal though IMO it should be classed as an organ. However, we've decided on calling the new boy, Nero. (νερό) Which is pronounced (Neh- Ro) The ro is like tho, but you roll the r's. ^^ Its greek and means water. Actually it is the literal word for Water. We thought it was a lovely name for a rescue ferret, especially him, who can adapt and recover easily.
That is a lovely name. I'm not sure that I can roll my R's, but since I'm typing, you won't know when I mispronounce his name. hehehe. I'm going to post this and then post to your next thread. I don't want to lose this and my computer is running funny.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 10:44:58 GMT -5
Page two:
How does this plan look? I tried to put the Heart meal between Bone in meat meals. Would that even it out? Before I had it after a Organ+Heart meal. I'll probably won't be able to get anything other than chicken for bone in meat until the 15 of September. (I only have 2 mice left, so i was saving those for next week,)
Have you considered breeding your own mice? That's the cheapest way to feed mice. However, it's seems so heart wrenching.
Unless, I use the Turkey shank bone thats crushed. Is it better though for them to crush the bone themselves (like how they would for quail or chicken wings etc) or does the bone brushing their teeth still work if the bone is crushed?
You'll have to learn that by watching them. Try crushing it in a few places first and see how they do. It is better for their teeth to crunch the bone, but that doesn't mean that you can't help them along with some smashes. Their jaws are getting stronger, so they will probably handle the shank well in a little bit.
They say on their website that they have: Duck, Goat, Poussin, Rabbit, Quail, Turkey.
I'd love to see duck in their menu. It's so fatty. Rabbit is lean, Turkey is also lean. Goat is a new protein but the bones are big. Duck wings are smaller than turkey wings and easier, but both can be a little tough. Mine love duck more than turkey.
Is it possible to do Half and Half with some meals? Like for example how I put the Necks (& or) Turkey shank meat and bone? or the Gizzard with Turkey mince?
Yes, you can do that. But I would suggest only doing that after you have introduced a protein for the first time. Any new protein should be introduced alone and then watched for signs of allergy or intolerance. Then you can combine them.
You know how they get one egg a week or so. Can I blend the entire egg, shell and all? Would that help with protein? I've been adding 1/2 to 1 tsp of egg shell to their muscle meats also. ^^
In the wild, they would eat the egg with the whole shell. We usually dry them out, so they don't splinter. If you blend the entire egg, look thru it for any splintery pieces. If it doesn't blend into a fine powder, then go back to drying them out. By the way, those breeders that I talked to, included extra calcium in their diets until the ferrets are 18 months old. Not a bad idea for your young ones.
Let's look at your menu:
Sat: (M+B) AM: Gizzard and Turkey Mince. (1/2 and 1/2 possibly) PM: Chicken Necks.
Sun: (M+B) AM: Beef Mince. PM: Chicken Necks.
Mon: (O+M+B) AM: Lamb Liver/ Beef Kidney / Ox Heart. PM: Whole Mice.
Tue: (M+B) AM: Lamb Heart & Turkey Shank (Meat Only). PM: Chicken Necks.
Wed:(M+B+Egg) AM: Lamb Rack (meat only), Egg. PM: Chicken Wings.
Thu: (B) AM: Chicken Necks (& or) Crushed Turkey Shank Meat+ Bone. PM: Chicken Wings.
Fri: (O+M+B) AM: Lamb Liver/ Beef Kidney / Ox Heart. PM: Chicken Wings.
I see chicken/lamb/beef/ox/turkey. Five proteins, that's great. You have several red meat meals. Why do we want Red Meat Meals
You have six muscle meat meals. That's a little more than you need, it should be 3-4. Include Bone meal powder or eggshell powder (until you get the bonemeal powder) in all the muscle meats. I know Heather will come back and say it is too muscle meat heavy.
Hooray, you have gizzards.
You have eight bone in meals.
Your two organ meals both include Heart. I really like this. Since we limit organ meals, they tend to be lighter meals. Including the Heart gives them a bigger meal. Very nice!
Just make sure that the all important Taurine in the Heart makes up at least ten percent of what they eat. We can't skimp on Taurine.
Is Taurine Water Soluable or Fat Soluable?
What does Water Soluable and Fat Soluable mean?
Terrific! :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 11:19:18 GMT -5
You made a connection with him. If we ignore a connection, then we always wonder about the little ones. I know we can't take them all home, but some are simply meant to be yours.Ah yes! Thats a fantastic way to put it. (even thought it was just through a photo or video ) It was the same thing with Haru and Yuki. Well more Haru for me, since I chose her. She was the first I noticed when I went to pick up ferrets, and I felt a very strong connection. ;u; Now I can't imagine if I hadn't chosen her... There's this thing called the red string of fate, or thread of destiny kind of thing in asian legends. I kind of feel that its similar to that little 'connection' though its mainly a single thread. In my case, I imagine it to have multiple threads and animals or humans that are suppose to be in our lives are just destined to through that entire concept. (There are so many adorable little stories with this concept. I really love it!) I've been looking into cataracts also. The prognosis isn't good. There doesn't appear to be any way to reverse it in ferrets. Humans can have cataracts removed, but I don't know if anyone is doing it for ferrets and I would be reluctant to put an older ferret through any surgery.I honestly wouldn't risk surgery ;n; It sounds really complicated. ;n; In any case, even if he was to become completely blind, He can still have a happy and healthy life and thats all that really matters in the end. ^^ It would also be a really pricey procedure, so why pay the expensive cost if you risk losing the poor little fur baby ;n; Hairball is so much easier to spell. (giggle) That's good to know, Thanks. The tern Hairball is Bitbyter's pet peeve.It is much easier to spell. Not everyone understand the scientific names, so I can see why everyone simply sticks with the one name even though there are different types. Tripe is the first three chambers of a cow's stomach. The green tripe is simply the tripe untouched or unprocessed. White tripe is bleached and processed. I think that is the only two options.
Oh wow, it sounds really gross. hahaha! I did hear back about it. I'll post what I heard. Here is my question in part.In an analysis of a sample of green tripe by a Woodson-Tenant Lab in Atlanta, Georgia, it was discovered that the calcium:phosphorous ratio is 1:1, the overall pH is on the acidic side which is better for digestion, protein is 15.1, fat 11.7 and it contained the essential fatty acids, Linoleic and Linolenic, in their recommended proportions. Also discovered, was the presence of Lactic Acid Bacteria. Lactic Acid Bacteria, also known as Lactobacillus Acidophilus, is the good intestinal bacteria. It is the main ingredient in probiotics.That was alot to digest (That wasn't intentional hahaha) I never knew about the lactic acid bacteria. Thats very intriguing. ^^ Finally, because of it’s rubbery texture, serving it in large chunks also aids the ferret in strengthening it’s jaw muscles and has an added benefit as a form of ferret dental floss.It does sound quite tough to chew so its understandable that its a good jaw strengthener. I know it's stinky and most ferrets will avoid it, but what do you all think?Could this be an additional bone in meal and should we recommend it? We have some new to raw ferrents who have issues finding quail and other easy bone in meals.I was actually wondering if I would be able to find it at all. I haven't seen them anywhere, but I'm sure if I asked around I might be able to find some. It must have a very strong odour... I wouldn't blame the ferrets for avoiding it Bitbyter responded: I think you meant "boneless" meal.
Green tripe has a lot of benefits BUT many / most ferrets will actually run from it. If you can get them to eat it then great but we don't mention it since so many just refuse.
They would get the same benefit from eating whole prey. They occasionally will eat some of the digestive tract but not often. Once the bacteria set up shop in the gut the only reason to reintroduce it (as far as I know) would be after a round of antibiotics.
Heather responded: Heather McNally's kits are raised on it, so they all eat it. She has mentioned feeding it in the couple of times we've discussed diet. I would feed it if I could get my ferrets to eat it. I always have 100 lbs or more in the freezer. Wolfhounds thrive on the stuff. The ferrets actually treat the stuff the same way they react when they step in cold water. My biggest concern with adding it to our 'things to feed' is people would feed the stuff they find in the grocery store. It has 0 nutritional value. In fact we used to use it as empty calories for dogs who were so hungry when you were trying to strip weight off them. We can certainly add it to the list of foods to feed. I've heard a couple of other people who feed it and it's certainly a very good dietary addition ciao
Sherry responded: I wish I could get mine to eat it as well. I think most raw feeders consider it a muscle meat meal though IMO it should be classed as an organ.
Interesting! I wouldn't mind trying it one day with Haru and Yuki. I managed to find it in freeze dried form.. www.petbarn.com.au/k9-natural-freeze-dried-lamb-green-tripe-dog-food-200g.htmlI also found out: "Raw Green Tripe is unavailable in some states of Australia due to meat licensing regulations." I also found it air dried. www.foodiepooch.com.au/product/dried-green-tripe-treats/It sounds like it might be hard to find in completely raw/fresh. "In fact we used to use it as empty calories for dogs who were so hungry when you were trying to strip weight off them. " Wow I never knew that !! Tripe doesn't sound like a good staple for their over all diet. But It sounds like a good treat! ;u; That is a lovely name. I'm not sure that I can roll my R's, but since I'm typing, you won't know when I mispronounce his name. hehehe. I'm going to post this and then post to your next thread. I don't want to lose this and my computer is running funny.
I used to have trouble with rolling my R's. You should have heard me when I first started studying japanese ahahahha. Now It just rolls literally off my tongue. Nero sounds good both with the subtle R sound and the heavy R sound. Like (Near-Oh) or (Neh- Tho). The name Nero has other meanings also depending on which language you look at. In Ancient roman it can mean "strong, vigourous". In Latin and Italian can mean black, dark. In finnish can mean Genius. I love name meanings. Its so fun to look in to. In Japanese it can be used as imperative form of neru (寝る) which means sleep. Oh I also just realised its also the stage name of an utaite I like (singer who covers songs and has a very beautiful breath taking voice.) Have you considered breeding your own mice? That's the cheapest way to feed mice. However, it's seems so heart wrenching.I was considering that before I even brought home some ferrets to be honest. I just never got around to actually starting. (maybe I'll start looking into starting in a month or two.) I have experience when it comes to rodents and (rat-pet) Breeding, However I guess I could say that I'm alittle worried about the euthanasia part of things. Rats would also be a better choice, since I've owned more rats compared to mice in the past. Rats are very less stinky and are less noisy too. Anyway, I'm a compassionate person by nature, so I treat all animals with love and respect regardless of what they are. ;u; A life is such a precious thing and even feeder animals should be greatly respected since they will bring life to another being. You'll have to learn that by watching them. Try crushing it in a few places first and see how they do.It is better for their teeth to crunch the bone, but that doesn't mean that you can't help them along with some smashes. Their jaws are getting stronger, so they will probably handle the shank well in a little bit.Oh I never thought of that! Is their generally a size that should be avoided for when it comes to crushed up bones? I guess I'm paranoid for choking hazards. Their gums get stronger too don't they? So the bone couldn't cut their gums over time right? (another thing I worry about.) I'd love to see duck in their menu. It's so fatty. Rabbit is lean, Turkey is also lean. Goat is a new protein but the bones are big. Duck wings are smaller than turkey wings and easier, but both can be a little tough. Mine love duck more than turkey.I really want to get some duck as well! Currently I can't get duck at any local supermarkets. Mainly since for some idiotic reason, they only get these 'luv-a-duck' pre packed things and 90% of the time they have seasons or something. Its so unbelievably frustrating and who would even buy those prepacked things when they cost so much as well!! I really want our new butcher to hurry up and open. At the moment our supermarket complex which is quite small, is upgrading and rebuilding some shops as well as moving them around and expanding. Hopefully by next year I should have a local place for meats. It would seriously make things so much easier. Most of the time they're so much cheaper at butchers rather than supermarkets anyway so I'm excited for that new butcher thats going to be built soon. Yes, you can do that. But I would suggest only doing that after you have introduced a protein for the first time. Any new protein should be introduced alone and then watched for signs of allergy or intolerance. Then you can combine them.Oh thats understandable! So far they seem to be doing very well on all the meats at the moment. When I get the new boy, He'll be separated for a week or so. I think that also gives me some time to see how he eats and handles certain foods. Since he is 2 years old, and we don't know much about his past, he could easily have an allergy or intolerance that hasn't been seen yet. I'm hoping he does well on the different proteins also. It would be great. ;u; In the wild, they would eat the egg with the whole shell. We usually dry them out, so they don't splinter. If you blend the entire egg, look thru it for any splintery pieces. If it doesn't blend into a fine powder, then go back to drying them out.By the way, those breeders that I talked to, included extra calcium in their diets until the ferrets are 18 months old.Not a bad idea for your young ones.The egg gets completely blended in our blender. I did get into the habit of checking as well. ^^ I also have this bowl in the kitchen window seal that we put egg shells in to dry out. I was originally blending the egg without the shell, but then thought about how you said to put the egg shell (since i have no bone meal) on the muscle meats for protein, then the blending of the entire egg sounded like a very smart idea. Ah thinking about the ages now, they're growing up so fast! Haru's birthday is in October! She'll be 1 years old first!! Wow!! Oh! I wouldn't know the New ferrets birthday.. How about I use the date I bring him home as his birthday? Is that a good idea? ^^ It might be on the 1st or 2nd of September. I see chicken/lamb/beef/ox/turkey. Five proteins, that's great. You have several red meat meals. I've been counting Ox as Beef. Since Oxen are mature casturated male cattle, May as well just count them as beef. ^^ Why do we want Red Meat Meals?Red meats are high in VitB and Iron (also taurine?). All are important for a ferrets health so thats why we want them to have red meat meals. I was reading on red meats recently and apparently red meat is also a rich source for alpha lipoic acid. (Liver & Kidney are good sources for it.) Its an antioxidant and helps prevent cell damage. so do ferrets gain any benefits from Lipoic acid? "Alpha-lipoic acid is also used to treat eye-related disorders, such as damage to the retina, cataracts, glaucoma, and an eye disease called Wilson’s disease." Oh wow! Would that also apply for ferrets also? (http://goo.gl/bLDJmQ) I just have to say I basically just had a mini heart attack because i accidentally closed my browser tab and thought I lost all my 1.5 hour worth of typing for this reply. Thank goodness for the forum draft saving. You have six muscle meat meals. That's a little more than you need, it should be 3-4. Include Bone meal powder or eggshell powder (until you get the bonemeal powder) in all the muscle meats.I know Heather will come back and say it is too muscle meat heavy.Okay! So all I need to do is substitute 2 muscle meals with bone in meat? How long do I use the eggshell powder for on muscle meats? Its for the calcium right, so since they're still young and growing they need it the most. Is it until they're around 18 months? Are there any alternatives for the calcium? How about calcium powders? (Depending on ingredients of course) I checked a website where I found the Bone meal a while ago (http://au.evitamins.com/bone-meal-now-34035) and they still have none available. That sucks!! I was actually hoping they would have had some in by now.. I might send them an email about it later. ^^ I did find some from au.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Bone-Meal-Powder-1-lb-454-g/425 That would be coming from overseas, But its still a better price then getting from most online shops. I thought I would list stuff I find here for later incase I forget the links. Hooray, you have gizzards.
Gizzards are great!! You have eight bone in meals.Your two organ meals both include Heart. I really like this. Since we limit organ meals, they tend to be lighter meals. Including the Heart gives them a bigger meal. Very nice!Without the hearts, it would be a very small meal. They would probably get hungry throughout the day without the hearts. Just make sure that the all important Taurine in the Heart makes up at least ten percent of what they eat. We can't skimp on Taurine. I don't think we'd be able to actually not give them Taurine, since all meats have it. Its strongest in hearts, darker meats and tongue. Haru and Yuki love their hearts. oh my, they have such happy expressions when they get heart meats. They get to try Lamb Hearts this week~ Its a change from the usual Ox heart. I still have chicken hearts stored away, But I don't even buy those anymore since Its now Ox and Lamb hearts~ Is Taurine Water Soluable or Fat Soluable?Taurine is water soluble and isn't degraded from being frozen/thawed. It becomes liquified to blood after the freeze thaw process so it can easily be added back into the ferrets meals. I don't like wasting, so when meat is thawed out and I see that lovely red liquid, I simply poor it into their meal so they can have some "Taurine" Soupie. ahhahaa. When I was doing food prep a few days ago with the Lamb and Ox hearts, they came with that lovely liquid and I poured it into a container for use later on. Why drain it when it can be poured into their food~ What does Water Soluable and Fat Soluable mean?Water soluble vitamins dissolve in water before the body can absorb them. Taurine is water soluble and is expelled through the urine so there's no chances of an overdose on Taurine. Fat soluble vitamins dissolve in fat and can be stored in the liver or fatty tissue until its needed so it can be easy to overdose on fat soluble vitamins. Vitamin A is fat soluble and can be stored in the body, so its fairly easy to overdose on it. Terrific! :wave3:
I love how you quiz me every so often. The answers tend to jump right at me, so it shows that I'm learning very well~ ^^ I'm off to sleep now! Tomorrow I have to catch up on some course work. Bye bye!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 15:53:00 GMT -5
Now I can't imagine if I hadn't chosen her...
There's this thing called the red string of fate, or thread of destiny kind of thing in asian legends. I kind of feel that its similar to that little 'connection' though its mainly a single thread. In my case, I imagine it to have multiple threads and animals or humans that are suppose to be in our lives are just destined to through that entire concept.I understand. I can make myself cry just thinking what if I hadn't brought Ponce or Roamy and Juliet, Mika, Wynstan or Keller home. And there was a little girl who I named Pandora but didn't bring home... I really like the red string of fate legend. I'll have to look that up. I was just talking with someone (forgive me if it was you) about something like this. The idea is that we all come from tribes from thousands of years ago. When we meet someone that we love or truly like, then it's because we came from the same tribe. The idea also means that when we dislike or have a true enemy, they came from a warring tribe or were someone who hurt someone from our tribe. We carry that forward. I honestly wouldn't risk surgery ;n; It sounds really complicated. ;n; In any case, even if he was to become completely blind, He can still have a happy and healthy life and thats all that really matters in the end. ^^ It would also be a really pricey procedure, so why pay the expensive cost if you risk losing the poor little fur baby ;n;
I tend to agree. Surgery is so hard on them. If they are older, it's even worse and I just don't like the odds. Too many things happen to them during surgery and in most cases, it doesn't cure just removes a tumor or something else and then another grows back. That was alot to digest (That wasn't intentional hahaha) I never knew about the lactic acid bacteria. Thats very intriguing. ^^ Interesting! I wouldn't mind trying it one day with Haru and Yuki. I managed to find it in freeze dried form.. www.petbarn.com.au/k9-natural-freeze-dried-lamb-green-tripe-dog-food-200g.html I also found out: "Raw Green Tripe is unavailable in some states of Australia due to meat licensing regulations." I also found it air dried. www.foodiepooch.com.au/product/dried-green-tripe-treats/ It sounds like it might be hard to find in completely raw/fresh.
It's used by humans for a dish called Menudo. My stepfather use to make it and boy, did it smell. If you have any hispanic markets, that would be the place to find it. It is very popular in their community. Just be friends was beautiful. Such a lovely voice. I was considering that before I even brought home some ferrets to be honest. I just never got around to actually starting. (maybe I'll start looking into starting in a month or two.) I have experience when it comes to rodents and (rat-pet) Breeding, However I guess I could say that I'm alittle worried about the euthanasia part of things.
I'll forward some of the info that Katt gave me during our switch. Paul thought he might handle it, but he's a softie also. Oh I never thought of that! Is their generally a size that should be avoided for when it comes to crushed up bones? I guess I'm paranoid for choking hazards. Their gums get stronger too don't they? So the bone couldn't cut their gums over time right? (another thing I worry about.)We use to always say that it was the Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller. That doesn't apply anymore because so many ferrents have seen their ferrets handle bigger bones. There was an old thread that got pulled up now and again, so I questioned it. The other mentors did some explaining and we deleted the old thread. Heather said this: The non-weight bearing bone thing dates back to the beginning of the raw vs kibble times.
The bones most likely to cause issue, getting caught in throat, digestive issues, broken teeth, undigested are weight bearing bones. It became the chant that weight bearing bones shouldn't be fed. They were the most dangerous and did cause problems. They are the highest risk. If there is a bone that will not dissolve in the digestive tract these are the ones. You've heard of feeding old bone....this is like feeding old bone. Bone that is most likely to perforate and be fatal. That is why the warning. Does it and can it be fed, of course but know your risks and what you're willing to risk. ciao
Sherry said this: A good example was one of my mentees on the old forum. Her one guy would literally plow through PORK CHOP bones! She actually had before and after pictures, and yes- the majority of the bone would be eaten.
Feeding bone can be scarey. It's like giving your toddler their first grape. We do hear once in a while that someone choked or had an issue, but it is rare. I have not heard of anyone actually choking to death or even having bleeding gums. I tend to pick thru some pieces when I blend up some backbones or necks. Usually, if I serve backbones or necks, I have to blend some up for my lazy eaters. I make a puree and put that over larger pieces. That way it all gets eaten. So, then I'm more careful to make sure that no piece is just the wrong size. You sort of eye it and know. Look at their mouths and throats and you get an idea of what would be exactly wrong.
Oh thats understandable! So far they seem to be doing very well on all the meats at the moment. When I get the new boy, He'll be separated for a week or so. I think that also gives me some time to see how he eats and handles certain foods. Since he is 2 years old, and we don't know much about his past, he could easily have an allergy or intolerance that hasn't been seen yet. I'm hoping he does well on the different proteins also. It would be great. ;u;
When do you get him? He's only two. I thought he was older. That seems so young for cataracts. Time goes by too fast for them. Haru will have her first birthday. Have you seen the birthday cakes for ferrets? holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14272/birthday-cupcakes-ferretI've been counting Ox as Beef. Since Oxen are mature casturated male cattle, May as well just count them as beef. ^^
Another good question for the Mentor board. I suspect we count ox separately just like we count Cornish game hen as separate from chicken. I haven't had to ask this before. You are my first to use ox on your menu. Red meats are high in VitB and Iron (also taurine?). All are important for a ferrets health so thats why we want them to have red meat meals.
I was reading on red meats recently and apparently red meat is also a rich source for alpha lipoic acid. (Liver & Kidney are good sources for it.) Its an antioxidant and helps prevent cell damage. so do ferrets gain any benefits from Lipoic acid? "Alpha-lipoic acid is also used to treat eye-related disorders, such as damage to the retina, cataracts, glaucoma, and an eye disease called Wilson’s disease." Oh wow! Would that also apply for ferrets also? (http://goo.gl/bLDJmQ)That's right. Beef is high in Iron and Vitamin B. It does have taurine, but we want that Iron and Vitamin B. I don't know about using it for ferrets. I have heard of Lutein for human use in preventing or deterring macular degeneration and cataracts. I know ALA is used in beauty products. It has it's proven uses, but I'll look around and see what I can find. I just have to say I basically just had a mini heart attack because i accidentally closed my browser tab and thought I lost all my 1.5 hour worth of typing for this reply. Thank goodness for the forum draft saving. Boy, do I hate when that happens. Technology has it's uses but we never lost anything on a typewriter. (giggle) Okay! So all I need to do is substitute 2 muscle meals with bone in meat?Correct. Since Haru and Yuki are still so young, we want to go on the higher side of Bone In meals. 7-9 is recommended, so stay on the 8 or 9 side. As I mentioned earlier, Breeders tend to dust muscle meats with Bone meal powder and offer extra calcium until they are around 18 months of age. Nursing mothers also get extra calcium. That only makes sense. How long do I use the eggshell powder for on muscle meats? Its for the calcium right, so since they're still young and growing they need it the most. Is it until they're around 18 months? Are there any alternatives for the calcium? How about calcium powders? (Depending on ingredients of course)
I checked a website where I found the Bone meal a while ago (http://au.evitamins.com/bone-meal-now-34035) and they still have none available. That sucks!! I was actually hoping they would have had some in by now.. I might send them an email about it later. ^^
The eggshell powder is for calcium. So is bone meal powder. Bone meal powder will have more of the nutrients found in bone and marrow. Eggshell powder is really only a short term solution. It's calcium rich but lacks the other nurients found in bone. I'll pm Therese for you. She is in Australia and may know where to buy bone meal powder. I need to do something quickly. I'll post this and then come back and finish. See you in a few minutes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 16:28:04 GMT -5
Okay, where were we. I snuck downstairs and made a smoothie. I'm on a health kick after two weeks of eating way too much junk. I'm making smoothies but using protein and yogurt. They aren't as much fun as the ones at the mall, but I don't like yogurt and want to get some in my system.
I don't think we'd be able to actually not give them Taurine, since all meats have it. Its strongest in hearts, darker meats and tongue. Haru and Yuki love their hearts. oh my, they have such happy expressions when they get heart meats. They get to try Lamb Hearts this week~ Its a change from the usual Ox heart. I still have chicken hearts stored away, But I don't even buy those anymore since Its now Ox and Lamb hearts~
You are right. Taurine is part of any animal tissues. Ferrets bodies demand a high amount of taurine. That is why we use hearts or tongue. This ensures that they receive a high degree of that necessary amino acid. Have you heard of the Okinawa Island of Longevity theory. It's based on their diet being high in taurine.
I love that they are eating ox and lamb hearts. That's like a ferret superfood.
I love how you quiz me every so often. The answers tend to jump right at me, so it shows that I'm learning very well~ ^^ I'm off to sleep now! Tomorrow I have to catch up on some course work. Bye bye!!
Your answers are always very good. You were correct on the above answers. Are you a naturally good test taker? I never liked tests until I was finishing up my degree. I began taking tests for college credits. We call it clepping. I studied test taking and was able to clep 52 college hours. It saved so much time. No money, since the Air Force paid for it, but I loved opening the mail to find that I had completed a course.
No tests today. It's Friday here and your weekend now. I'll have a doozy of one for you on Monday. The Senior Mentors who worked with you, while I was gone are very impressed with you. Sherry would happily graduate you and so would I, but if you don't mind, I would like to hang around for the new boy's arrival. :banana:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 5:00:24 GMT -5
I really like the red string of fate legend. I'll have to look that up.I was just talking with someone (forgive me if it was you) about something like this.The idea is that we all come from tribes from thousands of years ago. When we meet someone that we love or truly like, then it's because we came from the same tribe.The idea also means that when we dislike or have a true enemy, they came from a warring tribe or were someone who hurt someone from our tribe. We carry that forward.It does sound very similar! I don't think you talked to me about this since its a first I'm hearing. Well I think I have heard of something like this somewhere (Maybe from all my reading) It's very interesting to think about. ^^ I tend to agree. Surgery is so hard on them. If they are older, it's even worse and I just don't like the odds. Too many things happen to them during surgery and in most cases, it doesn't cure just removes a tumor or something else and then another grows back.They must have a very different body compared to alot of other animals. I was so worried over their Spaying / Neutering surgeries. I probably called around 5 times in an hour just to check and see if they're in and doing okay. It's used by humans for a dish called Menudo. My stepfather use to make it and boy, did it smell.If you have any hispanic markets, that would be the place to find it. It is very popular in their community.It's also used in Patsas, a greek soup. I've never had anything with Tripe in it. (I doubt could hahaha) I'll forward some of the info that Katt gave me during our switch. Paul thought he might handle it, but he's a softie also.
Ah thank you! Do you breed your own feeders? We use to always say that it was the Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller. That doesn't apply anymore because so many ferrents have seen their ferrets handle bigger bones. There was an old thread that got pulled up now and again, so I questioned it. The other mentors did some explaining and we deleted the old thread.
I think it would also depend on the ferrets as well. I noticed that mine wouldn't try the drumette part of the chicken wing, probably because it was alittle thicker compared to the other parts. They also wouldn't touch a full chicken neck, so I assumed it was just because of the size and once I chopped them in parts, they had no issues with them. ^^ Wow, you can only imagine how a strong a ferret's jaw would have to be to managed to get through pork chop bones. Its actually quite freaky to think about how ferrets could easily break our fingers with those jaws! (I thought it was a perfect time to bring out this photo ahhahahaha) Feeding bone can be scarey. It's like giving your toddler their first grape. We do hear once in a while that someone choked or had an issue, but it is rare. I have not heard of anyone actually choking to death or even having bleeding gums.Humans can easily choke on marshmallows. Apparently they shouldn't be given to children under 4's. (Even if they're chewed properly, they can cause problems) They're so tasty but they scare me. I tend to pick thru some pieces when I blend up some backbones or necks. Usually, if I serve backbones or necks, I have to blend some up for my lazy eaters. I make a puree and put that over larger pieces. That way it all gets eaten. So, then I'm more careful to make sure that no piece is just the wrong size.You sort of eye it and know. Look at their mouths and throats and you get an idea of what would be exactly wrong.
I have noticed both Haru&Yuki don't touch large bones. I wonder sometimes if its because they know they can't handle it, or that they're just lazy and can't be bothered with them. (hahahaha pobably not the case) When do you get him? He's only two. I thought he was older. That seems so young for cataracts.Probably next Tuesday or Wednesday. I think the cataracts would be form genetics. When I was doing some research online, a few places said that ferrets over 6-7 usually get them. Apparently its not caused from an injury, So maybe it is genetics. I'm not 100% sure about cataracts, like on how fast they form etc. Time goes by too fast for them. Haru will have her first birthday. Have you seen the birthday cakes for ferrets?holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/14272/birthday-cupcakes-ferretI won't lie. I'm so excited to do some experimenting with some raw meats for their little cakies. I might also do some treat games for them~ That will be fun~ Another good question for the Mentor board. I suspect we count ox separately just like we count Cornish game hen as separate from chicken. I haven't had to ask this before. You are my first to use ox on your menu.
Thats actually a good point... Ox are usually trained as a draft animal and hence the castration to make them easier to handle. Ox are work animals. I found this article that was very interesting. knowledgenuts.com/2013/11/20/the-difference-between-cows-oxen-and-cattle/Boy, do I hate when that happens. Technology has it's uses but we never lost anything on a typewriter.(giggle)I'm generally usually really good with technology, its the technology thats not really good with me. hahaha. Correct. Since Haru and Yuki are still so young, we want to go on the higher side of Bone In meals. 7-9 is recommended, so stay on the 8 or 9 side. As I mentioned earlier, Breeders tend to dust muscle meats with Bone meal powder and offer extra calcium until they are around 18 months of age. Nursing mothers also get extra calcium. That only makes sense.
Oh yep, That does make alot of sense! ^^ The eggshell powder is for calcium. So is bone meal powder. Bone meal powder will have more of the nutrients found in bone and marrow. Eggshell powder is really only a short term solution. It's calcium rich but lacks the other nurients found in bone. I'll pm Therese for you. She is in Australia and may know where to buy bone meal powder.Oh yep! You mentioned that a while ago. (Might have slipped my mind) I'm thinking maybe it goes under another name over here. I might keep doing some digging around, otherwise I'll just stick with ordering from one of those websites I listed. ^^ Therese and I had no luck with the salmon oil. But I got my hands on some duck fat, so it should work well for their nail clipping. ^^ I still want to get some salmon oil in the future, and it seems like Australia just sucks for not having any in oil form. I did get the idea to use the soft jelly things also. Since you can pop them and use the small oil part. Its funny, I never thought of that and it actually works out okay if I was to do it that way as well. Apparently Australia has its own Salmon industry and yet we see no plain salmon oil. (I'm very disappointed Australia!! haaha) I feel like contacting them about it. Actually I think I will. I would love to learn as to why we don't make actual salmon oil in liquid forms. Maybe they can enlighten me Okay, where were we. I snuck downstairs and made a smoothie. I'm on a health kick after two weeks of eating way too much junk.I'm making smoothies but using protein and yogurt. They aren't as much fun as the ones at the mall, but I don't like yogurt and want to get some in my system.I love making smoothies! They're so filling! I can never manage to finish mine. I tend to drink slowly, since drinking them too fast gives me stomach aches. I love yogurt (as long as there's no chunkies in it!) When I came down with the flu a couple of years ago back when I lived with my dad, apparently I would eat nothing but a tub of Greek Yogurt. I'm one of those weird food cravers when I get sick hahahha. (one time, I wanted nothing more than to eat mash potato because my throat was so sore!) Its really funny to think about though, since these days I can't eat greek yogurt in large quantities without feeling sick. (and yet i eat it when I'm sick... wow) But I use it in everything, from Bread, to home made udon noodles, pizza dough etc. I love cooking. ;u; I was just randomly thinking. 'i wonder if theres a raw smoothie idea for the ferrets... oh wait... wouldn't that just be technically soupie?' It would actually be a good idea for summer though, Like blended meats with a couple of ice cubes. Has no one written a ferret recipe book yet? hahahahaha. Speaking of recipes... I bought a hard copy of ferrets for dummies because I was badgering my roommate to learn some things from the ebook but had no luck. (I don't really like alot of that book to be honest. I told my roommate to just ask me if she has questions and if I can't answer them, that I would ask you. ) I was flipping through the recipe parts and felt so disgusted by some of the recipes. If I was a ferret, I wouldn't eat any of that ahahhaha. I was finding myself saying things like "oh this is a good idea- oh god... no... who cooks the meat.. well I guess I could just keep it raw and it works out better anyway..." I really feel like altering those recipes to a more healthier version. ha.... ha... ha... I even saw 'heavy cream' as an ingredient. Oh and there was 'ferretone and linatone' which both have parabens (FT with BHT). I got into a deep conversation with my roommate on ingredients as well. Since we still have a bag of that vetafarm stuff in the cupboard, I was saying how I've got to get around to throwing it out since its no good. She was wondering why so I had to explain it had pea flour and what not. She was so shocked to hear that pea flour can cause Cystine stones. I think she ended up throwing the bag out for me. hahahahha. You are right. Taurine is part of any animal tissues. Ferrets bodies demand a high amount of taurine. That is why we use hearts or tongue. This ensures that they receive a high degree of that necessary amino acid. Have you heard of the Okinawa Island of Longevity theory. It's based on their diet being high in taurine.I don't think I can get my hands on tongue. Actually I did see some in one supermarket, but it was very pricey so I ignored it. Since I can get my hands on Lamb and Ox heart, They'll have plenty available. ^^ I literally bough both Lamb and Ox heart last week. There's 2 hearts in the ox pack and 3 smaller hearts for the lamb and between them both thats a good amount of heart stocked up. I have to buy more large containers. I bought to large ones a while ago and have put muscle for one and Bone in meats and hearts in the other. (since I ran out of room in the bone in meats, I just put all the hearts in a bag. My roommate wants to get a new fridge at the end of the year, so we decided to put the our current one in the garage and use it for ferret foods! ;u; I love that they are eating ox and lamb hearts. That's like a ferret superfood.
They really love their hearts. I think I might make some heart freeze dry treats. ^^ Your answers are always very good. You were correct on the above answers. Are you a naturally good test taker? I never liked tests until I was finishing up my degree. I began taking tests for college credits. We call it clepping. I studied test taking and was able to clep 52 college hours. It saved so much time. No money, since the Air Force paid for it, but I loved opening the mail to find that I had completed a course.
In school, I was never really good with tests because of the pressure. (Pressure makes me anxious and throws me off balance with my focus and memory)But if I can do them by myself in my own time, I tend to do very well. ^^ I'm a fast learner. Sometimes I make mistakes but usually its only because I word things wrong. I tend to be an active listener, which I noticed helped me learn alot faster. No tests today. It's Friday here and your weekend now.I'll have a doozy of one for you on Monday. The Senior Mentors who worked with you, while I was gone are very impressed with you. Sherry would happily graduate you and so would I, but if you don't mind, I would like to hang around for the new boy's arrival.:banana:It's Sunday night now. I started writing my reply yesterday but became preoccupied, so i'm really sorry for my super late response. Oh I look forward for that test (I'm actually excited hahah!.) Oh wow! I feel like I still have so much to learn. I would love it if you did hang around for the new boy~ (I'm excited yay!) Just thinking about it now, its about 3-4 days until I go get him. Oh wow It's going to be so great!! Haru is looking really good now as well. I had a small scare regarding her weight, but it seems to have filled in. She's also eating alittle more, and is becoming quite a vocal little girl. Its funny. I never thought she would become more vocal compared to Yuki. Yuki is so quite now. He wasn't as vocal since being Neutered. I'm kind of sad, since he was so adorable when he dooked all the time. I'll weigh them both shortly as well! Since its sunday and sunday is my weigh in day. ^^// For now, I shall go and catch up with some school work, then its play time for the two cuties. ^^ Bye bye!!
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