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Post by gfountain on Apr 13, 2015 14:24:53 GMT -5
No problem with chunks! Yay!!
Is there a reason you mixed the organs with the meat? We don't recommend doing that in a multi-ferret household because of exactly what Moses did... one picks out their favorite part and doesn't leave enough for the other, throwing off the balance for both.
Since they are fine with the chunks, try them on that mutton bone and see how it goes. Some ferrets can handle the larger bones, some can't. You may need to build up their jaw strength before they can eat the bones whole. If they can't manage them yet, use a hammer and smash the bones. It's difficult; my husband ended up using a sledgehammer on some for me. Let me know how it goes with the bone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 22:30:44 GMT -5
I mixed them because we do one single feeding for 24 hours instead of 2 or 3. (though we did not leave the organs out 24 hours. @_@ ) We used to feed twice a day at two precise times, but really it just was so difficult with our schedules. We learned of people that feed enough for a whole day, and that's been much better for us.
I don't think we have a hammer, but we will have to see! haha.
Though Moses did pick out the mutton, she did eat the soupie, I must note. She only picks out the meat because she likes to stash. Both ate their organs. :3
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 13:22:42 GMT -5
It seems to me from my observations of them eating that they can eat the bone. I watched Moses last night chow down on a bone with some eat on it, and it most definitely vanished into her tummy.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 15, 2015 15:49:06 GMT -5
In most cases it is fine to feed once a day. The only exceptions I can think of right now are if the ferret has insulinoma, if the ambient temperature is warm enough that the meat will spoil more quickly, and if feeding soups and/or grinds. Soups and grinds just don't last 24 hours without spoiling. The only way to feed a soup or grind only once a day would be to serve part of it frozen so they can eat it as it thaws. Once they get onto the larger pieces of meat, there shouldn't be any problem with feeding once a day. However, it will still be best to keep organ and heart meals separate from muscle or bone meals as much as possible. The easiest way to do that would be to prep and balance over a period of 10 days instead of a week. That will involve some math, but it isn't too difficult.
Did you smash the bone that Moses was eating, or was she eating it whole?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 20:51:12 GMT -5
gfountainShe is eating them whole. We cut the meat up into chunks, and she eats the chunks with the bone on them. The bone is pretty easy to cut through with a knife, too.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 15, 2015 21:00:54 GMT -5
Wow. Good! What bones are they? When I think of mutton bones, I think big and dense. How big did you cut the chunks? Is Elisha eating them too?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 23:49:18 GMT -5
Sorry about not posting earlier, I was actually gone all day Saturday. I weighed the ferrets today. Elisha is still 2 lbs (900 g) and Moses has gained weight! 1lb 10 oz! ~737 grams. Their poo has been really black lately, but I think that's from eating new things. I'm going to get a picture next time I see it just to show. They're both doing really well. Fat and happy! The bones are rib bones. Small. I think they're actually more like the tip of the rib. The chunks are pretty good-sized. My SO cut them. Elisha eats them, too. Both do really well with them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 13:50:52 GMT -5
Got a short video of Elisha destroying a mutton rib. I wanted to get about a minute of footage, but my phone ran out of space. <-< I'm always fascinated to watch them rip them apart like they're nothing. Really a testament to ferret jaw strength.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 21, 2015 14:17:12 GMT -5
Yep, that looks like a good sized chunk! Their jaw strength is amazing! I love to hear them crunching on bones. It grosses my mom out though, lol. She tells everyone about the CRUNCHCRUNCHCRUNCH at my house and says "it's so nasty!" But then she talks about how healthy and beautiful they are now compared to when they arrived, so apparently she doesn't mind it too much.
Rib end bones are good. My kids can devour pork rib ends with very little trouble.
So if Moses and Elisha are eating everything (bone-in, heart, organs), really the only thing we need to work on is their menu and making sure they'll eat at least three different proteins (not including organs or heart). How do you feel about making their menu and balancing for 10 days at a time rather than a week? If we do a weekly menu, you'll end up with 3/4 of a meal of hearts and 3/4 of a meal of organs rather than whole meals. I think it would just be easier to do it in multiples of 10 instead of having split meals. If you balance over 10 days, it will be 1 day of hearts, 1 day of organs(half and half), 6 days of bone-in, and 2 days of muscle.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 14:20:37 GMT -5
EDIT: Haha! You posted about when I did! I will reply to your post in a moment! <3 gfountainI am putting together my order for May. Tell me if this is enough proteins? :3 Getting online: Turkey Hearts Pork Livers Beef Kidneys Boneless Duck [ground] Boneless Venison[ground] Turkey Necks Small Mutton Ribs Getting at pet store: Chicken necks I have: Beef Lung [leftover from prior order] I have some other organ meat leftover, too, but I forget what without looking in the freezer. I am pretty sure we have chicken livers leftover. Do you think I should also order more of the small-bone mutton? They seem to really, really enjoy it. It's their favorite meal, I figure!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 14:29:49 GMT -5
Moses and Elisha are both taking all their newly introduced food very well. I think Moses has a fondness for turkey hearts. She must love how small and soft they look...I see her munching them in halves.
I think I am okay with the weekly schedule. We already know how much we need to buy a month for it and it's been going over really well so far.
I may disappear for a few days, though, fair warning...I literally just got a call my grandpa is having open-heart surgery. So I may need to leave and go there for a bit.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 21, 2015 15:18:04 GMT -5
You need more bone-in meats. They need about 60-65% of their diet to be bone-in in order to get enough bone. Also, dark meat is much more nutritious for them than white meat, so I would get rid of the chicken breast and get thighs instead. This order includes 3 proteins which is better than the 2 they had for April, but more is better. Is there anything else you can add? Beef, pork, quail, duck? Your organs and hearts are fine.
Thanks for letting me know about your absence. I hope your grandpa will be OK.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 15:29:56 GMT -5
You need more bone-in meats. They need about 60-65% of their diet to be bone-in in order to get enough bone. Also, dark meat is much more nutritious for them than white meat, so I would get rid of the chicken breast and get thighs instead. This order includes 3 proteins which is better than the 2 they had for April, but more is better. Is there anything else you can add? Beef, pork, quail, duck? Your organs and hearts are fine. Thanks for letting me know about your absence. I hope your grandpa will be OK. So do they need variety in bone-in meats? I planned to get enough turkey neck to accommodate them. I can get mutton ribs again and go to the pet store and get some chicken necks to add. I'll replace the breast by thighs, for sure. There are, but I'm trying to keep it cheap and it's difficult to add more without getting into the $100s. I added another to accommodate the 3. I could always switch it up monthly?
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Post by gfountain on Apr 21, 2015 17:31:21 GMT -5
They do need variety in the bone-in. Also in the muscle meat. Also in the organs, lol. The more variety you can get, the better off they'll be, but 3 is the bare minimum for the bone-in/muscle categories. Since they need 60-65% to be bone-in, if the only bone you have is turkey neck then their diet will be 60-65% turkey. That would be like you eating only broccoli 4-5 days of the week. While broccoli is a healthy food, 4 or 5 days of broccoli doesn't leave enough days to get all the other nutrients you need from grains to dairy, meat and other veggies (and ice cream ). If they eat turkey necks 4-5 days a week, which is what they would need to get enough bone in their diet, it doesn't leave enough meals of other proteins to cover their needs nutritionally. Make sense? How big is your freezer space? Rather than switching monthly, if you have the space, it would be better to buy more proteins in every order and just order every other month. To get another bone-in meat AND another protein, can you change your boneless chicken to chicken with bone and add a different boneless protein like beef or pork? Where are you ordering from? Most of us just shop at the human grocers for the more common proteins like chicken, turkey, beef, and pork. Most of the time, it's cheaper than buying from the pet food suppliers. I can feed my 4 for under $40 a month most of the time by shopping the sales and buying in large quantities. They get mostly turkey, chicken, CGH, beef, and pork, with twice a week meals of the more expensive meats like quail, duck, frog legs, and lamb.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 19:32:35 GMT -5
They do need variety in the bone-in. Also in the muscle meat. Also in the organs, lol. The more variety you can get, the better off they'll be, but 3 is the bare minimum for the bone-in/muscle categories. Since they need 60-65% to be bone-in, if the only bone you have is turkey neck then their diet will be 60-65% turkey. That would be like you eating only broccoli 4-5 days of the week. While broccoli is a healthy food, 4 or 5 days of broccoli doesn't leave enough days to get all the other nutrients you need from grains to dairy, meat and other veggies (and ice cream ). If they eat turkey necks 4-5 days a week, which is what they would need to get enough bone in their diet, it doesn't leave enough meals of other proteins to cover their needs nutritionally. Make sense? How big is your freezer space? Rather than switching monthly, if you have the space, it would be better to buy more proteins in every order and just order every other month. To get another bone-in meat AND another protein, can you change your boneless chicken to chicken with bone and add a different boneless protein like beef or pork? Where are you ordering from? Most of us just shop at the human grocers for the more common proteins like chicken, turkey, beef, and pork. Most of the time, it's cheaper than buying from the pet food suppliers. I can feed my 4 for under $40 a month most of the time by shopping the sales and buying in large quantities. They get mostly turkey, chicken, CGH, beef, and pork, with twice a week meals of the more expensive meats like quail, duck, frog legs, and lamb. I order from Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow. My grocery store doesn't carry everything I need to feed the fuzzies and we don't have a butcher. (Woo!) Alright, I'll add in mutton ribs again and get some chicken necks at the pet store. I live in a studio apartment. Our freezer space is like nada. The month's supply we bought this month completely filled it up. I will be SO happy when I move back home where my mom has a deeper freezer or when I can rent a house that allows pets. My fingers are so crossed. Would chicken necks work to replace the chicken? I can make the chicken thighs into something else (like beef or pork, as you mentioned). Updated my list! Added beef, chicken necks, and mutton ribs. Since I'm getting mutton ribs, I'm changing the ground lamb to ground venison instead.
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