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Post by Heather on Apr 5, 2015 17:37:19 GMT -5
Name: Muse HF Forum Username: Muse Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: 12/03/93 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? On the Facebook group, Ferrets First. I've always been interested since hearing raw feeders mention it. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like to completely transition to raw, but I am not interested in feeding live or frozen-thawed prey. I am transition my ferrets (as well as my cats) to a commercial raw called Rad Cat Raw Diet. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I feel it is the healthiest diet I could possibly give them. I want to give them a long and healthy life. I just want what is best for them, and it seems to me that raw is it. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Yes, of course. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? 2 ferrets. Moses & Elisha. 1 and 1/2 and 6 months respectively. Spayed females. Moses has adrenal disease, but Elisha is healthy. Good weights on both. I've had Moses for a year and some months. I've had Elisha for less than a year. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? Orijen mixed with Wysong Digestive Support and Archetype 2. Raw egg every three days. Oil supplements (Extra virgin olive oil, organic coconut oil, and pumpkin seed oil). They do not eat any form of soup. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? No. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? Nothing I can think of. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? 7 days. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). See Here 11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Are you at least 18 years of age? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc? Updating as I receive required materials: [x] At least 18 [x] 15 posts [x] Scale [x] Place to access meats [x] Meats Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor ( GFountain ), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun :boing:. Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by gfountain on Apr 5, 2015 19:52:56 GMT -5
Hi @muse! I'm Gina, your mentor. You can read my bio here if you're interested. I'm excited to start working with you to give your fuzzies a healthier diet! I know that you've already started switching your ferrets. Please tell me where you are in your switch. I need to get to know your ferrets and your feeding schedule (what they're eating, how often they eat, where they eat, anything else of interest), so give me as much information as you can! I'll also need current weights and 'dangling' pictures, please.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 22:14:53 GMT -5
Oh, hey! I had no idea this was here! Awesome! Nice to meet you. I will get you those dangling pictures, information on my feeding schedule, and current weights tomorrow, if that's alright. My significant other got me sick today and I'm really out of it. I have a thread here with my fuzzies, too. Though, I've admittedly fallen behind on updating my weights. Looking forward to working with you.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 20:58:55 GMT -5
gfountain Dangling photos! MosesWeight: 1 lb 8 oz (~ 816 g) ElishaWeight: 2 lbs (900 g) Where I amI actually was considering myself complete up until recently. My goal was to feed commercial raw. I wanted to feed Rad Cat. But after Elisha got E. Coli from Rad Cat Chicken and the fact we're having to buy 24 oz weekly and that's adding up, I've decided to instead go for frankenprey. I've ordered meat for them that should be here any day now from Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow. Moses and Elisha will eat the ground meat just fine, since that's what Rad Cat is. They also eat chicken necks after we cut them up into pieces. They took to the chicken necks without any kind of struggle, so I'm thinking they're not going to be difficult to go that extra step and feed them actual organs/meat/etc. So far their transition has been SO easy. Egg was as easy as spreading it on their lips once. I got them on soupie on the first try. They were having kibble-less soupie within their second batch. They took almost immediately to the Rad Cat commercial raw. So I don't think we're going to have to worry about them being too stubborn. : ) As of now, the two eat an estimated 8 oz a day. I believe they eat just a little less, but we're going to weigh out their meals again once their real meats come in. My ferrets eat twice a day - 10 AM and 10 PM. We are considering doing what others do and feeding them once a day, leaving out enough of a meal for 24 hours. They eat in their cage. Moses has shown sensitivity to chicken, yet she is okay with chicken necks. I am unsure whether it was simply the Rad Cat being bad, or maybe only certain chicken pieces upset her? I haven't a clue.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 8, 2015 9:02:05 GMT -5
LOL @ Moses' face! I love her splayed legs. They both look good, and weights are good for females. In my opinion, frankenprey is better than commercial ground simply for the fact that you can control EXACTLY what they are eating. With any commercial product, you have to take for granted that the company is getting everything in in the right amounts, and that they are reporting accurately. I just prefer to fix their food myself and know for sure that they are getting what they need. AND you don't have to brush their teeth on frankenprey! What meats have you ordered? Are you going completely frankenprey, or still planning to feed some grinds? We can work on getting their menu balanced while you're waiting for your order to arrive. What kind of symptoms did Moses have with chicken? And what kind of chicken, just the CR or actual chicken?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 15:59:57 GMT -5
LOL @ Moses' face! I love her splayed legs. They both look good, and weights are good for females. In my opinion, frankenprey is better than commercial ground simply for the fact that you can control EXACTLY what they are eating. With any commercial product, you have to take for granted that the company is getting everything in in the right amounts, and that they are reporting accurately. I just prefer to fix their food myself and know for sure that they are getting what they need. AND you don't have to brush their teeth on frankenprey! What meats have you ordered? Are you going completely frankenprey, or still planning to feed some grinds? We can work on getting their menu balanced while you're waiting for your order to arrive. What kind of symptoms did Moses have with chicken? And what kind of chicken, just the CR or actual chicken? Moses is great. I love her to death. I forgot to mention that Moses does have adrenal, but she recently (finally!) got her DES implant and is doing good. I suppose it's just a fun fact to keep in mind? This is what I ordered: 2 lbs bison liver 2 lbs beef lung 2 lbs turkey hearts 2 lbs chicken thigh cubes 10 lbs mutton bones (ribs) For the amount of days we plan to feed (the rest of April), it should be enough for the two...except we're unsure if the mutton ribs will work for the fuzzies. I know someone else feeds mutton ribs on a Facebook page I'm on. They're the small bones, not large. So if the mutton doesn't work, I'm going to go get some chicken necks and hopefully wings at the grocery. I think we'll go full frankenprey. It's much cheaper than the commercial grind. I can order in bulk pounds and have meat to last me a long while compared to needing weekly orders. As for Moses, when we started feeding chicken, she ate it for a while...and then just stopped completely. She would refuse to eat it to the point she starved herself down to 1.3 lbs. It was really scary. I had to get her fluids and carnivore care. Since Elisha got sick from it, I'm assuming that same chicken also made her feel sick/upset her stomach. She has never refused lamb or turkey, or the chicken necks. Those settle well with her.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 8, 2015 16:46:01 GMT -5
The mutton bones... Is it JUST bones? Or does it have meat with it? If it has meat, what are the percentages of bone and meat?
You need another protein for balance. You do have 5 total, but that includes the organs and heart. For complete balance, you need a minimum of 3 proteins in the muscle meat and bone-in meats.
I'm going to give you a massive information overload. Read through it; don't let it scare you off. It's a lot to remember and I don't expect you to memorize it overnight! I just want to get all the basic information in one place for easy reference.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 8, 2015 16:52:20 GMT -5
Welcome to the world of raw feeding. Since you’re here, you already know that raw feeding is the healthiest and most natural way to feed your fuzzbutts. There are several types of raw diets that are commonly fed. Many ferrents use a combination of these methods to provide a balanced diet. Obviously, the MOST natural way to feed would be to let your ferrets hunt for themselves like they do in the wild, but what kind of pet owner wants to just turn their pets out into a field and tell them to ‘go find dinner’! Controlled live feeding is a great way to mimic this behavior and can be used to supplement any raw diet. While it is a personal preference and must be done with caution, IF the ferret is a good hunter, and provided the live prey is no larger than a mouse, controlled live feeding is great enrichment for a ferret. The biggest downfall to feeding live (besides owner squeamishness) is the limited prey options that are small enough to be safely fed live. Pre-killed whole prey is the next closest to ‘all natural’, and is probably the easiest way to feed a ferret. Each whole prey meal is completely balanced in and of itself, so there is no need to measure and weigh (and worry about) what they eat when feeding a whole prey diet. In addition, whole prey poops are awesome - they are complete little fur- or feather-covered packages that are easy to clean up. However, whole prey can be expensive and some of us can’t feed anything that still has a face attached. A commercial grind or mince is another type of raw food that is available. The company simply takes a carcass and grinds it all up together – meat, bones, and most organs (usually not fur or feathers). Grinds are packaged in many different ratios and you must rely on the company to accurately report the contents and percentages of organs, heart, etc. in the grinds. Many grinds include added plant material (veggies and fruits), so careful research must be done to provide a completely balanced diet. Also, there are no “dental hygiene” benefits with commercial grinds so teeth must be brushed frequently, and again, it can be very expensive. And that brings us to frankenprey, a big word that simply means feeding a balanced diet with “grocery store meats”. It is possibly the most complicated method of feeding in the beginning, because it requires thought on the part of the owner, but once the initial learning curve is mastered, it is no more difficult than any other type of raw feeding. With all of these options, it’s easy to choose a method, or a combination of methods, of feeding that works for you. And once you understand the basics of ferret nutrition and establish a routine, you’ll discover that it is very simple to feed your ferret a balanced, healthy raw diet.
One thing you must remember is that with ferrets and their food, we have to speak in generalities - feeding raw is not an exact science. Our goal in feeding raw is to replicate as closely as possible what a ferret would eat in the wild with the correct balance of meat, organs, and bones, but how can we determine EXACTLY what that balance is? Because the difference in bone mass and the size of organs even between two animals of the same size and the same species can vary tremendously, we cannot set a DEFINITE ratio for our prey model and say “This is it; this is the exact amount of meat/organ/bone my ferret must have to be healthy.” Even if every single prey specimen were identical in proportions, who is to say that every single wild ferret would eat every part in exactly the right amount, especially with larger prey that cannot be consumed by a single ferret in one meal. So we get as close as we can to ‘natural’ by using a prey model that has been used for decades, a rough average of many species of prey animals - 80% meat, 10% organ, 10% bone. This prey model was originally geared toward dogs and cats who generally do not need as much bone in their diets as ferrets, which is why we say ferrets need 10-15% bone, depending on their poops. (This will be addressed later.)
Because of the different vocabulary used when discussing the different kinds of diets, there has been some confusion regarding the correct balance of a raw diet. Whole prey is easy. Each prey animal is a completely balanced meal, so there’s no need to think about numbers. Commercial grind companies use a ratio to determine the amount of meat, organ, and bare bone in their foods. (An ideal commercial grind would be approximately in the ratio of the prey model, or 80:10:10.) Frankenprey feeders don’t just toss a bare bone to their pets, but rather give them bone with meat attached, what we call edible bone-in meat. This terminology is where the confusion lies. Because the bone is served with meat, the percentage of bone-in meat is about 50-60% of the total diet (as opposed to the 10% of bare bone in the prey model). This SEEMS to be in conflict with the prey model ratio, but if you were to pick apart a frankenprey menu and weigh and measure every single thing separately, you would find that the ratio of meat to organ to bone would be very close to 80:10:10.
Below are a few of the things you will need to know as a raw feeder no matter which method of feeding you choose to use. All of this information is located in various places on the forum, but I’ve tried to condense some of the basics here for reference. This seems like a lot of information, but believe me, once you get into the actual planning and feeding, this becomes second nature.
First, raw food MUST be served RAW. I know that sounds like a really obvious statement, but I’ve heard from several people that they feed raw meat, but they cook it. (I know. I don’t understand that statement either, lol.) Cooking destroys many natural vitamins, minerals, and proteins in the meat and bones. In fact, cooked bones are extremely dangerous because they can splinter and perforate the stomach or intestines. Raw bones do not splinter; they break cleanly. They pass through the intestinal tract safely and the clean edges are actually smoothed by the stomach acids. They come out the other end a little rubbery feeling, and rounded with no sharp edges. (This video shows the effect of a stomach acid on bones. video)
Raw meat is safe for ferrets to eat. A ferret’s digestive tract is very short and bacteria doesn’t have enough time to set up camp in there. And, surprisingly, raw food can be safely left out for several hours at a time, depending on the ambient temperature:
“Soups” - 6-8 hours (for soup recipe, see below) Grinds - 8-12 hours Chunks - 10-24 hours depending on the size (larger chunks last longer) Bone-in meats - 12-24 hours, again depending on the size Whole prey - up to 48 hours
With soups and grinds, in general, trust your nose - if it smells off, it likely is and should be tossed. You will find that the bigger chunks of meat typically go through a few stages. During the ‘safe’ hours it will dry up and the surface may feel tough or leathery; it is still safe to eat at this point. Then it goes through a stinky, greasy phase during which most ferrets will not touch it. This is usually when it gets tossed because it smells awful, but occasionally a piece or two will get stashed well enough and missed. These pieces continue to dry out and become fairly odorless, making what we call ‘ferret jerky’. Most ferrets can’t resist this and will eat really nasty looking stuff with relish. If they’re eating it, it’s either not too far gone, or it has been successfully stashed and jerkified.
Raw soup recipe
8 oz raw skinless/boneless chicken 1 oz raw chicken liver (about half a liver) 1 oz raw chicken heart (about 2 hearts) ½ tsp. eggshell powder Water to thin Blend all ingredients until soupy. Freeze in ice cube trays (rubbed with olive oil for easy removal) to make easy-to-serve portions and reduce waste. Chicken is the most common protein to start a switch with, but any protein can be used.
The amount of food your individual ferret eats will depend on gender, age, season of the year, and his general mood. It can differ dramatically sometimes and until you become familiar with his eating habits, you will have some waste. In general (and with ferrets and their food, we ALWAYS speak in generalities), adult males eat 2-4 ounces per day, adult females 1-3 ounces per day. Kits of either gender eat 2-3 times MORE food than an adult. They all eat more when they are in the fall and winter mode, less in the spring and summer mode. In fact, ferrets can lose up to 40% of their body weight in the spring. Other factors can play a role in their eating habits also, such as stress, excitement, temperature, or attitude (“I just don’t feel like eating chicken today, mom”). Being familiar with your ferret’s eating habits at any given time of the year is important in keeping track of their health. This is one of the reasons we always recommend that you keep a food journal to track appetite, poops, activity, and weights. MOST ferrets are self-regulating and will eat only what they need. This is not to say that there are NO obese ferrets, but as a rule, they eat what they need to survive and no more. A good guideline when feeding is to try to make sure there is always a bite or two left over when you feed the next meal.
Ferrets, whether they are fed whole prey, grinds, or frankenprey, or some combination of the three, must have a minimum of 3 DIFFERENT PROTEINS in their diet, preferably including at least one red meat. Examples of different proteins are chicken, turkey, quail, beef, rabbit, pork, venison, lamb, goat, frog, fish, etc. Some common red meats are beef, bison, venison, goat, and lamb.
Taurine is an amino acid necessary for heart, brain, and eye health. Taurine is found in muscles that are used A LOT. This is why heart is a required part of the diet. The heart is constantly working, therefore it is very high in taurine. Heart can be ordered online if you cannot find a local supplier. Other good sources of taurine if you cannot find heart are brain and tongue. Brain is VERY difficult for some of us to find, but cow tongue can sometimes be found in grocery stores in locations with a large Asian or Hispanic population. If for some reason, you absolutely cannot get any of these sources of taurine, you can use a taurine supplement (500 mg per ferret per day). The NOW brand is a good one to use because it has no fillers in it. You can get taurine in capsule form, which you can break open and empty onto a meal, or pure powder form. (500mg of taurine is equivalent to ⅛ teaspoon.)
Eggs are a very healthy addition to a ferret’s diet and help in the prevention of hairballs. Generally speaking, a ferret can have the equivalent of one chicken egg per week. (I say the equivalent of a chicken egg because quail eggs, for example, are very small and it takes 4 or 5 of them to equal one chicken egg.) A whole egg is basically a completely balanced meal, designed to provide complete nutrition and waste removal for a baby bird. Therefore, ferrets can be fed the entire egg, shell and all. Whether you want to serve the egg all at once or spread it out (a little bit several times a week) is up to you. Some ferrents choose to only serve part of the egg. In this case, it MUST be the yolk - do not feed egg whites without the yolk. During shedding season, eggs can be fed 2-3 times per week to help prevent hairballs from forming. One thing to be aware of when feeding eggs is that they can create slimy, stinky poops.
And speaking of poop, poop patrol is going to become a fact of your life. A raw fed ferret’s poop is NOTHING like a kibble poop. Their poops change from meal to meal depending on what they last ate. Here is a link to the ‘poop chart’ for reference. poop chart You will likely become a little (or a lot) obsessed with your fuzzy’s litter box for the next few weeks at least, and very likely you will soon be able to tell what your ferret ate for dinner just by looking in the litter box. (You can brag about this talent to your friends if you want, lol.) In addition to his activity level, a ferret’s output is the best indicator of his health. It is also how we determine if your fuzzy needs more or less bone in his diet. As mentioned earlier, the diet should include 10-15% bone. Sometimes they need a little more bone, sometimes a little less, depending on the poops. If the poops are loose, they need more bone. If the fuzzy is constipated, or poops look dry and hard or chalky, they need less bone. Blood-rich meats (hearts, organs) will cause dark, looser poops; heavy bone meals (like chicken necks) will cause drier, more formed poops that often have tiny bits of partially digested bone in them. Another thing to expect during the first few weeks is STINKY poops! Your ferret is basically on a detox from the nasty things that are in kibble. While his digestive tract gets used to processing the raw, his stools will be stinky and odd looking most days. This will all clear up and you will have smaller, less stinky raw poops before you know it!
FRANKENPREY
The goal with frankenprey is to mimic what a ferret would eat in the wild, with the correct balance of organs, muscle meats, and bones, using foods that you can find at your grocery store. Each part of a prey animal has a unique combination of vitamins and minerals that are essential to the health of your ferret. A long term imbalance in their diet can and will cause serious health issues, so it is critical that you plan your meals in advance to ensure that your little friends get the nutrition they need for a long and happy life.
When feeding frankenprey, there are 4 main PARTS of an animal that we need to feed to meet the diet requirements: muscle meat, heart, organs,and edible bones. Remember that at least 3 proteins are required for complete nutrition. Those 3 proteins should be in the meaty part of the diet, not in the organs. However, you should also have a good variety of sources for organs, not all chicken organs, or all beef organs.
1) Muscle meat is fairly self-explanatory. It is any kind of meat that is NOT an organ, including hearts and gizzards. When discussing muscle meat, however, we are typically referring to skeletal muscle.
2) While heart IS a muscle meat, it is a cardiac muscle rather than a skeletal muscle, and it is in a category by itself because it is a vital source of taurine in a raw diet.
3) Nutritional organs are considered to be any part of the body that SECRETES a hormone. Examples are liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, reproductive organs, lungs, brains. Liver is the easiest organ to find and should make up at least half of the organ requirement. Other organs can be very difficult to find except directly from a butcher, cultural markets, or online sources. Neither hearts nor gizzards are organs. This is a very common misconception, so be aware of it when shopping for organs. Many meat department personnel and butchers commonly call hearts and gizzards organs, but they are NOT. They are muscle meats, AND heart is a separate requirement in a ferret’s diet (see above).
4) Edible bone is any bone small enough for a ferret to eat. Generally, these are non-weight bearing bones of poultry or small animals. Because we do not feed a bare bone, but rather one with plenty of meat attached, we sort of combine this category with muscle meat and call it “edible bone-in meat”. When I (or others) refer to “bone-in”, this is what we are talking about. If we refer to “muscle meat”, we mean meat that has no bone included (chicken breast, beef roast, etc.) Examples of edible bone-in meats are poultry wings, necks, backs, ribs, sometimes thighs, whole quail, whole Cornish game hen, rabbit, mouse, guinea pig. Sometimes you can find smallish bones from a larger animal that are small enough for a ferret to eat. One example is pork button bones, or pork riblets. Some of those bones are too dense, but occasionally you can find some small enough. Although the bone requirement is only 10-15% of the total diet (remember that we use the poops to determine the bone content), because the bone is attached to muscle meat, edible bone-in meat makes up the majority of a ferret’s diet. It is critical that your fuzzy learn to eat and enjoy bones, for healthy teeth as well as to meet the calcium requirements.
Now, moving on to the basic frankenprey menu: Raw fed ferrets are generally fed twice a day, 12 hours apart, making a total of 14 meals per week. The basic weekly menu should include:
1 ½ meals of heart (~10% of the total diet) 1 ½ meals of organ, at least half of which must be liver (~5% liver, 5% other organ) 7-9 meals of edible bone-in meat (~50-60%) 2-4 meals of muscle meat with no bone (~15-30%)
When building your menu, you want to consider the effect a particular meal will have on the poops. For example, remember that blood rich meals (liver, other organs, hearts) cause looser poops, so to combat that issue, you want to feed at least one bone-in meal between them. It is best to spread organ/heart meals out as much as possible throughout the week.
This is easier than it sounds. Below is a sample menu (in the format I will want yours to be, when we get to the menu making part, once your ferret is eating all kinds of yummy stuff).
Sun AM: organ meal (½ liver, ½ other organ) Sun PM: edible bone-in meat
Mon AM: edible bone-in meat (or muscle) Mon PM: edible bone-in meat
Tues AM: heart Tues PM: edible bone-in meat
Wed AM: muscle meat Wed PM: edible bone-in meat
Thur AM: heart and organ (½ liver, ½ other organ) Thur PM: edible bone-in meat
Fri AM: edible bone-in meat (or muscle) Fri PM: edible bone-in meat
Sat AM: muscle meat Sat PM: edible bone-in meat
You will take this basic menu and rearrange it to suit your needs, making sure to include at least 3 different proteins, and adjusting the bone-in meals depending on the poops. It is important to be flexible with your feedings. If you notice runny poops and have hearts planned for that meal, you can give a bone-in meal instead, and save the hearts for the following meal if their poops have firmed up. Don’t worry about not having something defrosted if you have to make a last minute change. Ferrets are perfectly content with ‘meat-sicles’. Some ferrets will require the full 9 meals of bone-in, while others only need 7, and this can vary from week to week depending on different factors. It won’t take long for you to figure out what YOUR ferrets need.
The easiest way to prepare meals is to have your meat separated into serving size portions (once you learn the correct amount for your business) in your freezer. Once you have your menu planned, it’s easy to grab one bag or container per meal. When you serve one meal, you can put the next meal into the refrigerator to thaw. It’s good to keep an extra bag or container of bone-in and muscle meat available in case you need to make a substitution, or your fuzzies beg for a snack.
Congratulations! You’ve made it to the end of this mini-book, lol! If you waded through all that information, you can do this switch! I have faith in you, so don’t feel overwhelmed by this information overload and get discouraged. We’ll do this in baby steps, and we’ll go over all this information again as it becomes necessary.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:22:02 GMT -5
The mutton bones... Is it JUST bones? Or does it have meat with it? If it has meat, what are the percentages of bone and meat? You need another protein for balance. You do have 5 total, but that includes the organs and heart. For complete balance, you need a minimum of 3 proteins in the muscle meat and bone-in meats. I'm going to give you a massive information overload. Read through it; don't let it scare you off. It's a lot to remember and I don't expect you to memorize it overnight! I just want to get all the basic information in one place for easy reference. Meat. 84% meat, 16% bone.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 11, 2015 19:42:44 GMT -5
Sorry for the absence. :/
So you've got meat. Have you managed to wade through all that information I posted? Do you have a menu yet? You can use the sample menu and fill in the blanks with the meats you have available. Your girls are already eating chicken necks, so getting them to eat the meats shouldn't be too much of a problem. Of course, they ARE ferrets, so they might have some surprises in store for us, lol.
When Moses stopped eating chicken, was that the commercial ground chicken? Did she show any symptoms of an intolerance or allergy, or did she just stop eating it? Any vomiting, diarrhea?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 20:36:10 GMT -5
I've read that information somewhere else before. Is it posted on the site? Because it was very familiar. Though, I will warn, the percentages and ratios don't mean anything to me. I have a math disability and seeing percentages, fractions, and most other things really makes me head spin. I leave the mathing stuff up to my boyfriend.
As for a menu, this is what we cut up.
*(If the lamb ribs don't work for edible meat-in bone we're going to get chicken necks or wings. But I am waiting to see if they can eat it or not before doing that.)
Sun AM: turkey liver & beef lung Sun PM: mutton meat/ribs*
Mon AM: mutton meat/ribs Mon PM: mutton meat/ribs
Tues AM: turkey heart Tues PM: mutton meat/ribs
Wed AM: chicken thigh (boneless cubes) Wed PM: mutton meat/ribs
Thur AM: turkey heart, turkey liver, beef lung Thur PM: mutton meat/ribs
Fri AM: mutton meat/ribs Fri PM: mutton meat/ribs
Sat AM: chicken thigh (boneless cubes) Sat PM: mutton meat/ribs
--
She simply stopped eating it, but she also vomited once sometime during. I do think it gave her a sore tummy, as she did look rather pitiful.
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Post by gfountain on Apr 11, 2015 20:54:01 GMT -5
That information is all in the forum in various places. Another mentor and I tried to put it all together a little more concisely and we use it in our switching threads. So if you've read through any of our threads, you would have read it there. It's also had parts copied and pasted by other members, lol. I just like to have all that basic info in one easy-to-find place in case you need it for reference. Sometimes, I'll KNOW that I read something, but I can't find it when I need it. I'm really sad that you have a math disability. I LOVE math! But it's OK. I'm a teacher and can usually manage to come up with explanations and pictures that should help you understand. And then there's always the boyfriend. Your menu needs to be more varied. The only actual meats you have are chicken and mutton. They need at LEAST 3 proteins in the muscle/bone meats. You have more variety in your organs, so that is good, but the turkey and beef can't be counted as one of the 3 proteins since those are only organs and heart. You should have some poultry bones in the menu. Those are the easiest for them to eat actually. You can use chicken wings, backs, necks, thighs (if you break up the bone for them); quail; duck; turkey wings. All of those should be available at your local grocery. A good easy to find muscle meat that most ferrets seem to like is pork. We also recommend including a red meat like beef, lamb, venison, or goat. Beef is easy to get, but has a stronger flavor that some ferrets don't like. Lamb is probably the most gentle on the tummy. Edit: duh! You have lamb (mutton). What proteins are they already getting in their grinds? Since Moses had a reaction to chicken, let's not start with that like we usually recommend. You have lots of mutton and it's easy on the tummy, so let's start with that. Cut some small chunks and offer them alone first. See if they'll eat them. If they do, great. If they don't want them, we'll start mixing slivers into their grinds. But I'm crossing my fingers and betting that they won't have a problem with them. If they eat the chunks, try offering them a bone for their next meal.
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