Post by FerretsnFalcons on Feb 16, 2015 20:09:30 GMT -5
Wow, Julesalot, thanks for making this list! I'm sure it will help a lot of people who feed kibble. I used to feed Blue Wilderness Duck and Nature's Variety Chicken, which I think are considered decent kibbles, but my ferrets' coats were thin and flat, and their poops were like pudding, ick! They are doing SO much better on raw (if you want to see before and after pictures, go to (link). Anyway, I think that this website (click here for the link) is helpful for understanding the ingredients, especially those confusing vitamin/supplement ones. It's for dogs, but you get the gist. I also saw another ingredient glossary on Purina's website (click here for the link). It basically looks like they're trying to get customers to believe that what they put in their food are quality ingredients. For example, they call corn gluten "A highly digestible source of protein and antioxidants" and they say that propylene glycol just "maintain(s) the moistness of semi moist treats," completely skipping over the fact that it's used in antifreeze! Anyway, great list Julesalot!
FerretsnFalcons - definitely crossed out, but at least your links work! You can always go back and "edit" posts too.
@julesalot - I noticed you included "natural chicken flavor" under the digestible/nutritional value category. I don't *really* know anything about it but I always assumed it was just some sort of extract/chemicals and not actually "meat".
One suggestion I have is to separate the currently red category into "not particularly harmful" (maybe just in black or something) and "dangerous" (maybe in bold/red) so things like sugar, peas, soy, grains, etc. are easier to pick out for someone trying to decide on a food. Pretty much all kibble has plant matter as it is required to bind it together, but things like spinach are low sugar/carb and usually way down on the ingredient list compared to wheat/rice/corn which are used as fillers. Also people reading may not know that many people believe peas can cause kidney stones* and so if two kibbles are similar but one has peas and one has potatoes in the same place they might pick the one with peas because they think both are equal. I know you are busy and have already done tons of work, but just thought I'd add something potentially helpful in my comments
*I have heard conflicting accounts of whether peas actually cause stones or not, but generally feel they should probably be avoided on the "better safe than sorry" principle.
PS - That is an incredible amount of work and very useful!
Ferrets: Contessa, Frankenfurter, Butterscotch. Kitties: Watson, Oskar DIP Sinnead, Vincent, Boris, Zeus and Athena, Willow, Mr. Frodo, Indie, Lucrezia, Judge, Odin, Miss Emily, Suki, Cody, Aristotle. RIP Herne, Ligeia, and Mr. Stubbs
Lets see, Raisins can attribute to kidney failure, peas can attribute to bladder stones, garlic... any info with garlic? And need to double check with the tea-extract I think it attributes to kidney failure? Don't want to be wrong on my explanations. If I can get some help to make sure the explanation is correct, I'll add it in for sure!
Onions and Garlic Never give a ferret anything that contains either onions or garlic, as both of these can make him sick or even kill him. Onions are known to cause hemolytic anemia, potentially fatal, while garlic can cause ferret kidneys to shut down, a condition that is frequently fatal. Check the labels of any prepared foods you buy to make sure neither of these things is on the list of ingredients. If you plan on giving your ferret any type of meat-based baby food that contains garlic, check with your vet first.
Celene ---wished you would edit that doubt about peas----it could persuade someone to feel its ok, especially if they r a little indecisive. Talk to jen---her ferret was on Zupreem and had cystine stones and has, i believe, one or two still in its kidneys.
Post by FerretsnFalcons on Feb 17, 2015 18:19:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip Celene, I didn't know you could edit posts. I fixed the strikethrough. And Julesalot, the list looks fantastic, I'm glad you changed the light green, because for some reason it messed with my eyes and I couldn't see it very well. (giggle) This list is a great resource, someone should make it a sticky!
abbeytheferret6, without trying to ignite a heated debate/argument/whatever, I will explain why I used the language I did.
First of all, I did recommend not feeding peas "just in case" but I have heard very persuasive arguments about why peas probably do not cause stones. I am neither a doctor nor dietitian, so will not conclude either way, but also do not want to spread misinformation. People like to take extreme positions and issue blanket statements (an example would be "all drugs are bad and will kill you" vs "marijuana cures cancer") however I personally believe in giving accurate information. To my knowledge there is absolutely no evidence or studies indicating that peas cause kidney/bladder stones in ferrets nor any saying they are safe. As far as I can tell the "peas cause stones" thing is blindly passed on so people believe it because "everybody says so".
Secondly, many of the "top" kibbles contain peas somewhere in the ingredient list (Orijen, Go!, etc.). I would hate to deter someone from choosing a lower quality kibble with more grains/fruit/fillers only because peas were (very far down) on the ingredient list.
Thirdly, about 90% of the people who've had stones/issues that I've personally heard about are with Zupreem grain free. TONS of kibbles contain peas, but don't seem to be causing nearly as many issues. Who's to say it isn't a different ingredient that's causing the stones, but nobody is looking for it because peas are already the perfect scapegoat?
While searching for articles/studies on peas and kidney stones (I do like to do research before making a statement so I don't look like an idiot after) I found this post written by unclejoe on another forum.
At the end of the day, ferrets should not eat peas because they contain sugar, starches, and ferrets shouldn't be eating any vegetable. I know lots of kibbles use high amounts of "pea protein" to increase the protein % on the nutritional chart, and that is really bad because ferrets shouldn't be relying on protein from non-meat sources, if they can digest it at all.
I hope I don't spark any outrage or such as I don't mean to hijack the thread, I just wanted to explain my previous statement
It's anecdotal evidence, if your ferret has a history or is prone to bladder issues then you may second guess feeding a kibble containing peas, or your ferret may be more likely to have a flare up or issues when they already have bladder issues if you feed one that has peas. It's a "be careful" type of things. We do not have proof and do not claim to, we do let people know that we have some evidence on it and to be wary.