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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 18:53:28 GMT -5
I hear ya, just the more I read and learn and talking to other mentors, it was just a red flag. Who knows, if she is acting normal than it might just be your meter. BUT heaven forbid it isn't and she is just putting on a brave face like ferts do. One suggestion also was to take the .15ml two times a day and make it .1ml 3 times a day. That doesn't increase the dose (.15ml twice a day = .3 ml total, so .1ml 3 times a day is also .3 TOTAL) but spreads it out a bit more. I know this isn't a long tern solution because you have to make a living and can't be there for that all the weird times.
You say the readings were in the 80s after she started taking the pred and eating, is her activity any different after these lower readings? Even the 40 one? If not, then maybe it is just the meter
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Post by Desiree on Jan 27, 2015 21:17:19 GMT -5
When I took her BG, I did it because she wouldn't eat and was lethargic. That was the 36 to 28 reading day. When it was 44 she was acting much better. Today, she is normal self, dooking and war dancing while playing and stashing all of her toys. I wish I had test strips today to take her BG but I will have to get them tomorrow.
I spent all day prepping meals and didn't get through half of it! So much food! I'll finish the rest up between tomorrow and Thursday.
Question as I'm building menus. I've been giving Tundra and Riot the same meals so Riot is going to be trying some of the more exotics meats this week including smelt and frog legs. Is smelt (whole fish) considered a whole prey meal? Also, do you think it would be a good idea to try and give Riot a whole mouse? He eats pieces now like Tundra who eats pieces the size of his head? I'm also going to try whole hearts from duck, pheasant and turkey for those two. They ate turkey neck today like champs!
For Rebel, should I just stick with chicken soupy? Poops have been partially formed and lighter in color, is this normal? I can also do pork soupy and beef or lamb soupy? All organs are served soupy for my guys so she will receive those too. I can, of course, add slivers to her food. She is eating about 7.5 ozs a day right now. Of course the soupy is about a third water so she is probably getting 4 ozs a day vs when she was eating chunks she was eating about 1.5 ozs a day.
Tundra weighs a whole pound now too!! He's growing so fast! He's going to be big. Also, Riot looks pretty skinny. I don't know if it's because his coat isn't as full (he's adrenal) but both Rebel and Tundra having a thicker back end. I can see his indents from his hipbones. I'll try to catch a good picture when the sun is up tomorrow.
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Post by Desiree on Jan 27, 2015 22:07:07 GMT -5
Riot and Tundra's Menu Mon Am – Chicken Wings - BI Mon Pm – Quail- BI Tue Am – Phesant, Tukey, Duck heart (3 oz)– M/H Tue Pm – CGH - BI Wed Am – Pork - M Wed Pm – Pheasant -BI Thu Am - 1/2 beef tongue, ¼ pork liver 1/8 pork brain 1/8 pork kindey (1oz, 1oz, .5 oz .5 oz) – O/H(Taurine source) Thu PM – Frog Legs - BI Fri Am – Duck – M or BI Fri Pm – Smelt – BI Possible WP Sat Am – Goat - M Sat Pm – Mice – WP Sun Am – Turkey Necks – BI Sun Pm – 1/2 Chicken liver 1/2 beef kidney (1oz, 1oz) – O Menu for the weekish. Obviously I will be starting tomorrow but will follow this chart. I have a different protein every day as long as they accept it all . Plus I'm adding guinea pigs and rabbits so I'm thinking of doing an every ten day meal plan?? If that's okay, it'll also make it easier to plan out organ meals too.
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Post by Desiree on Jan 28, 2015 11:03:41 GMT -5
Okay when I get home from school today, I'll be picking up my meter strips.
Also, Riot is eating chunks with no water and he grabbed one of the biggest pieces today! Of course, this was after I had to convince to eat the pork with some hand feeding but then he ate on his own so yay!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 18:46:10 GMT -5
When I took her BG, I did it because she wouldn't eat and was lethargic. That was the 36 to 28 reading day. When it was 44 she was acting much better. Today, she is normal self, dooking and war dancing while playing and stashing all of her toys. I wish I had test strips today to take her BG but I will have to get them tomorrow.
It will certainly be interesting to see what her 'good' days look like, BG wise with your meter. I think that will REALLY tell us is the meter is reading low or if it truly was low. Talking with some of the senior mentors, they were REALLY surprised that it was that low.
I spent all day prepping meals and didn't get through half of it! So much food! I'll finish the rest up between tomorrow and Thursday.
Dontcha love it! NOT! Haha That is truly my one complaint, cutting up meat is time consuming. Blah. I get big loads from a local butcher a couple times a year for lungs and sometimes a few of the other secreting organs. It literally is just a big long hunk of meat from the chin down to the lungs. It's totally gross and I'm not squeamish. The best way to do it though is to buy a LOT and just bag it up in meal sized portions. I really only have to do this every couple months when I run low on BI meals.
Question as I'm building menus. I've been giving Tundra and Riot the same meals so Riot is going to be trying some of the more exotics meats this week including smelt and frog legs.
The end goal is to get everyone on the same menu so you can toss in meals twice a day and not have to worry. This will be a little challenging with Rebel and her needs so this might falter slightly, but it's the theory and honestly what I am able to do with little worry. The only thing you can do it try. Most older ferrets are more reluctant to change, so if it is a new meat Riot might not be keen. Just have something you know he will eat available for the next meal in case he is picky. If he does not eat it, we can talk about changing that.
Is smelt (whole fish) considered a whole prey meal? Also, do you think it would be a good idea to try and give Riot a whole mouse? He eats pieces now like Tundra who eats pieces the size of his head? I'm also going to try whole hearts from duck, pheasant and turkey for those two. They ate turkey neck today like champs!
I would think smelt would be considered whole pray, if it indeed has all it's innards. Fish generally should only be fed once a week due to the mercury content. I have had no luck getting my guys to eat it, too strong a smell I think. Has Riot ever eaten mouse before? If so, and he eats it, toss one to him! Makes your job of feeding easier. If it wasn't so pricey (and the whole needing variety of course) mine would each get a mouse or two a day and we would call it good! It's all about working them up to these larger pieces. Same thing with the hearts. They should be able to eventually eat a whole heart. Good job on the neck!
For Rebel, should I just stick with chicken soupy? Poops have been partially formed and lighter in color, is this normal? I can also do pork soupy and beef or lamb soupy? All organs are served soupy for my guys so she will receive those too. I can, of course, add slivers to her food. She is eating about 7.5 ozs a day right now. Of course the soupy is about a third water so she is probably getting 4 ozs a day vs when she was eating chunks she was eating about 1.5 ozs a day.
Poops will be weird for a while. Some longer than others. As long are they are not too runny for too long, don't worry too much. I still to this day get a weird GREAN poop if I feed something new or that I havne't feed in a while. It takes their digestive track a while to get used to new things. For Rebel, for the most part feed her what she is going to eat. Especially until you get the meter thing figured out for sure. You do need to push her a little to eating bigger chunks eventually soon though because the bigger the chunk, the longer it can stay in the cage and the longer she will have access to food. Same thing with the organ soupy. Remember, ferrets are lazy, they will eat soupy over chunks cause it's easier, but soupy can really only stay for a few hours without going bad where are larger chunks can stay for upwards of 48 hours (depending on the size) without an issue!
Tundra weighs a whole pound now too!! He's growing so fast! He's going to be big. Also, Riot looks pretty skinny. I don't know if it's because his coat isn't as full (he's adrenal) but both Rebel and Tundra having a thicker back end. I can see his indents from his hipbones. I'll try to catch a good picture when the sun is up tomorrow.
I am glad you are seeing positive change in Rebel and Tundra. Get a pic up of Riot and I will let you know if he seems too thin. Hipbones protruding is usually a sign of that being the case. About how much is he eating?
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Post by Desiree on Jan 29, 2015 12:56:42 GMT -5
So with Riot and Rebel alone both eating the same foods I would put out 3 oz of food at each meal twice a day. (I did make sure Rebel ate more often than that) There was often a .5 oz or left at the end of twelve hours. I often hand these to the ferrets to go stash them. With Riot and Tundra eating off the same plate, I give them 5ozs and depending on the food there is an ounce or half ounce left. They love pork, weren't so thrilled about pheasant. Tundra was eating about 3 ozs each meal when he was caged alone. Riot is still getting the same amount that he was with Rebel eating too. I normally sit down with him and get him to eat the first few pieces. I come into the room and can hear him eating some of his stash behind my bed. I'm guessing that he eats about 3 ozs a day. Riot weighs 2lbs 4.6 ozs (thank heavens for salmon oil on the belly) gaining a whole ounce. He's been maintaining a steady weight. I think I'm just paranoid. Rebel weighs 1lb 10ozs which is a 2 ounce gain so I'm happy about that! She is eating about 8 ounces of soup a day and eating every three hours except at night. She has been getting up to eat at least once at night. Rebel does not like any kind of oil so no top down shot of her this week. Tundra weighs 1lb 2.3ozs which is a 2 ounce gain in two days. When does it slow down? I feel like he's going to be huge!! He is 9 weeks old tomorrow (Ish). He eats like a horse and eats almost every with gusto. He isn't a fan of liver but will eat it slowly over time. We are working on him not biting feets since he loves to pounce on them while we are walking and I am terrified he's going to get hurt. He's such a wiggly scruffer.
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Post by Desiree on Jan 30, 2015 20:13:23 GMT -5
Rebel's BG was 58 today! She has been playing and stashing all of my sisters stuffed animals.
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Post by Desiree on Jan 30, 2015 21:16:11 GMT -5
I was going to do smelt tonight but I have a new addition to my ferrets and I figured we should start her off with a more easy raw meal. She had gizzards for a snack earlier and ate them fine. Her name is Arbor and she is almost 11 weeks old, two weeks older than Tundra. I will post pictures soon. Everyone except Rebel is getting chicken wings tonight. I got my order from Rodent Pro, mice, chicks (as snacks), three guinea pigs and a HUGE rabbit, did not realize they were ginormous! I also got four rats but two of them got forgotten out of the freezer and my dogs ate them. This adds three more proteins (already had mice on the menu) and I got elk from a friendly neighborhood hunter, so another protein added. I'll need to build another menu with the whole prey and make sure my numbers are all set. The rabbit will not be whole prey since they can't eat it all at once. Pretty sure it weighs as much as my dog. Guinea pig are pretty big too so we will see how much it weighs and whether or not it's whole prey or not.
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Post by Desiree on Jan 31, 2015 21:57:59 GMT -5
I am going to start adding slivers to Rebel's meals tonight so we can get her back on track. I'll have to go slow so that she continues to eat every three hours or so. Right now, I've been placing her in the cage every three hours and she just eats. if I have to, I cage her while I'm gone with her food so she has access to her food and none of the others do.
Riot and Tundra, I think, are switched over. They are eating chunks of meat and bone. I'll take a picture of their plate tonight. Arbor is probably headed on the same path but I haven't actually seen her eat bone yet so I don't know if she is or isn't eating them. She has accepted all meat though.
Small snag though, Arbor and Tundra were not interested in the mouse at all. I even let Riot and Rebel sniff it and nothing. I opened it up, cut of the head, rubbed some on their gums and nothing. I think I might remove all food for a few hours so they can't snack and try again. It's the first meat that Tundra has ever turned down. He wasn't a fan of the frog legs but ate them anyway.
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Post by Desiree on Feb 1, 2015 12:37:48 GMT -5
These are the chunks that Riot, Tundra and Arbor readily eat. This is quail. We are having food fights now!! Crazy ferrets. Riot squeaks this really weird sound when Tundra tries to take his food. It's actually quite hilarious.
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Post by Desiree on Feb 2, 2015 10:56:56 GMT -5
Riot did not eat his organs last night. little butt! Another hurdle. Rebel's soupy had some slightly bigger slivers in it today and she stopped eating when she got to them. I was able to get her to eat two of them but that was it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 15:42:40 GMT -5
AHHH, I think my phone app is on the fritz! You and my other mentee did not get the replies I did on Friday. Anyhow, sorry about the delay in response! So with Riot and Rebel alone both eating the same foods I would put out 3 oz of food at each meal twice a day. (I did make sure Rebel ate more often than that) There was often a .5 oz or left at the end of twelve hours. That is perfect, you want a bit left over, that tells you everyone got their fill but there isn't too much wasted. This will change with season too. You will always know when to up the amounts (with colder weather) when ALL of it is gone for a meal or two or when you are getting loads left over (when it warms up) you know to drop the meal size a bit. I often hand these to the ferrets to go stash them. Brave! Most are avoiding these stashes haha With Riot and Tundra eating off the same plate, I give them 5ozs and depending on the food there is an ounce or half ounce left. They love pork, weren't so thrilled about pheasant. Tundra was eating about 3 ozs each meal when he was caged alone. Riot is still getting the same amount that he was with Rebel eating too. I normally sit down with him and get him to eat the first few pieces. I come into the room and can hear him eating some of his stash behind my bed. I'm guessing that he eats about 3 ozs a day. That is a nice average amount for a male :0) Riot weighs 2lbs 4.6 ozs (thank heavens for salmon oil on the belly) gaining a whole ounce. He's been maintaining a steady weight. I think I'm just paranoid.Good that he is gaining, he still looks a bit thin to me too. More so from the top view pic. I like to not be able to see those hip bones. Honestly the hanging pick isn't too bad, but seeing the other makes me think thin side. Rebel looks really good from her shot! Even though she weighs less, she seem bigger hehe OMG Tundra is so tiny! You forget how itty bitty they are. The little pot belly is adorable too. If you want to hold out on scruff photos till these more to scruff, that's fine. As long as he is eating like he is, I'm not too worried about him. And the eating like a horse can last a while, I feel like my big boy Pepe ate like that will be was a good 6 months old. He was little like Tundra when he went to raw, all three of mine were actually. They are all now hitting a year old and are eating a more average adult amount. Rebel's BG was 58 today! She has been playing and stashing all of my sisters stuffed animals.That is certainly a LOT better than those 20 readings! The fact she is much more active too speaks volumes. Any plan on getting the meter checked out? Especially now that you have a new addition that might need a vet check. I was going to do smelt tonight but I have a new addition to my ferrets and I figured we should start her off with a more easy raw meal. She had gizzards for a snack earlier and ate them fine. Her name is Arbor and she is almost 11 weeks old, two weeks older than Tundra. I will post pictures soon. Everyone except Rebel is getting chicken wings tonight.Yay! Both my mentees have new ones hehe Little ones are so easy to switch, glad she is already eating like a champ! Gizzards are a great way to build that jaw strength too, impressed that she took to those right away. As long as she has some teeth give her the bigger pieces! My Ruby was about 11 weeks when she came home and I offered her soupy, but she stole the boys quail thigh and never looked back! I got my order from Rodent Pro, mice, chicks (as snacks), three guinea pigs and a HUGE rabbit, did not realize they were ginormous! I also got four rats but two of them got forgotten out of the freezer and my dogs ate them. This adds three more proteins (already had mice on the menu) and I got elk from a friendly neighborhood hunter, so another protein added. Very nice variety! The elk should be interesting! My dad went hunting last fall and I was bummed out that he didn't get anything. The one suggestion I would say there is make sure it is left frozen for at least a month before you try it to kill off any parasites. That is your best bet with wild game like that. Farm raised animals are much less likely to have that kind of issue. I'll need to build another menu with the whole prey and make sure my numbers are all set. The rabbit will not be whole prey since they can't eat it all at once. Pretty sure it weighs as much as my dog. Guinea pig are pretty big too so we will see how much it weighs and whether or not it's whole prey or not.Let me know if you need help with the whole prey menu, it actually makes it easier. With the guinea pig, although I have never fed it, I think others will still consider it WP but they will half it or cut it into thirds and just feed it for a few meals. As long as their getting the whole thing EVENTUALLY then it can still be considered WP. I am going to start adding slivers to Rebel's meals tonight so we can get her back on track. I'll have to go slow so that she continues to eat every three hours or so. Right now, I've been placing her in the cage every three hours and she just eats. if I have to, I cage her while I'm gone with her food so she has access to her food and none of the others do. A set back is normal and to be expected. You are doing everything right though by adding slivers again to get her back up to chunks. Slowly but surely! Riot and Tundra, I think, are switched over. They are eating chunks of meat and bone. I'll take a picture of their plate tonight. Arbor is probably headed on the same path but I haven't actually seen her eat bone yet so I don't know if she is or isn't eating them. She has accepted all meat though. Yay! Glad they are doing so good. It does make it a challenge when you have a picky one, and top it off a sick picky one. (headwall) but we will get her there! Seeing her buddies eat so well will help too. Small snag though, Arbor and Tundra were not interested in the mouse at all. I even let Riot and Rebel sniff it and nothing. I opened it up, cut of the head, rubbed some on their gums and nothing. I think I might remove all food for a few hours so they can't snack and try again. It's the first meat that Tundra has ever turned down. He wasn't a fan of the frog legs but ate them anyway.He ate FROG legs but not mice! Silly fert! Haha If the 'touch love' doesn't work you might try mixing small pieces into something they REALLY love for a meal or two and slowly increase the amount of the mice until its all their eating. Trick em into liking it. Also, if they like oils, a few drops of that might do the trick too. These are the chunks that Riot, Tundra and Arbor readily eat. This is quail. We are having food fights now!! Crazy ferrets. Riot squeaks this really weird sound when Tundra tries to take his food. It's actually quite hilarious.Those are awesome! Remember the bigger the chunks the longer they can stay in there and the less work you have. Although we love our babies and will do anything for them, we want this process to be easier for you too. In reality you should be able to leave a quail whole, they are small enough. I only cut my CGH in half and they eat it like champs. I do hang mine and I feel like they eat it better that way too. If a large piece falls on the floor of the feeding den, they don't eat it as well. Not sure why honestly. Here is what a typically meal looks like for my guys: Here I was showing something hanging and how big my organ/heart chunks are. I honestly don't even feed it on the plate anymore because they were pushing it off and pieces were getting left under it. I just wipe down the bin with diluted vinegar really well and fed the next meal. I am able to do this twice a day (sometimes only once depending on the size of the pieces hanging). Riot did not eat his organs last night. little butt! Another hurdle.You will have these days here and there, especially with your older guys, they are set in their ways more. If you feel like it is a pattern you can do the mixing with something he likes technique I mentioned above. Rebel's soupy had some slightly bigger slivers in it today and she stopped eating when she got to them. I was able to get her to eat two of them but that was it.Two is better than none. Do the same mixture until she is eating it and then increase the slivers and decrease the soup. You want to push her until she gives then still to that for a few meals until she eats it and then push some more. Also, you can always PM me if I am being neglectful, never my plan! If you use facebook, feel free to friend me and PM me there too if you want! www.facebook.com/ACunningham22
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Post by Desiree on Feb 3, 2015 23:10:27 GMT -5
Is adding a new ferret enough to cause stress so that another ferret won't eat? I'm not sure how long it's been since Riot has eaten (on his own). I know he was eating when we only had Tundra. The only thing he seems to eat is stash food which is fine but I can't let him stash all year round and I don't know how much he is eating, plus with Arbor and Tundra around I don't know who is eating what. All he does is run off and stashes his food. He doesn't eat it. I know he didn't eat the organs the other day, and then the turkey necks were pretty ignored. I fed them chicken wings and quail and he ate none of what I put in his cage, no idea what he has eaten free roam. He has eaten an ounce of heart today in which I scruff and stuffed every piece and then I did the same thing with the CGH tonight. He ate about a .5 oz. We were so close to him eating completely on his own.
Should I cage him as much as possible to track his eating? Any suggestions? None of the pieces are any bigger than they have been when he was eating on his own.
ETA - Weight is now at 2lbs .9 ozs which is an almost 4 ounce loss from next week. Does he need to see the vet? Energy levels are normal, he's playing, maybe a little sleepier. I made a better eating den and he went straight in and ate. I don't know how much though. It was pork though one of his favorites.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:32:04 GMT -5
A new ferret can cause stress, and stress can make them not eat, but the fact that he is acting normal otherwise I would not immediately thing stressed. It is getting warmer, that will cause them not to eat as much also. If you are really worried about judging how much he is eating you CAN cage him separately, but be aware that it can cause stress also. I would continue to watch him for now and weigh him again a week after his last. If there is still weight loss then maybe a vet visit is in order. And of course if his energy level decreases or anything else major.
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Post by Desiree on Feb 4, 2015 18:52:52 GMT -5
Okay thank you! Will do.
I tried to get his BG today just to check it and I couldn't get a drop of blood out of him. Tried tail and pads, is there a better place to get blood from. With Rebel I just use her tail.
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