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Post by raynebc on Oct 1, 2014 20:16:19 GMT -5
When I got home, most of their raw food was left. I added some warm water and was able to spoon feed the rest of it to them, minus maybe 1/3 tsp of it. Since they ate it so easily from the spoon, it's making me think they are remaining full until the food begins drying out and it becomes less palatable. If this is what's happening, I think two feedings would help avoid that. They'll eat more of it while it's fresher and that should be easier on their digestion. Or, they just don't like the quail. I might switch back to mixing the pudding with duck for their next meal just to see.
I think I'll give the two meal schedule a try. I can leave them a little bit of wet FDR in between feedings in case they get peckish. It may be a good way to see if they like new flavors like the salmon/cod Stella and Chewy's. I have to imagine they'd like that flavor, they both love salmon oil.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 2, 2014 2:24:47 GMT -5
Some of the poop since that meal has been a little seedy and even greenish in color, and I worry that it's because they are eating the pudding after it's been out too long (ie. 8-9 hours) or that they are having problems with quail, so their overnight food tonight will just be wet duck FDR. Stella and Chewy's is pressure-treated to kill bacteria so it should be extra easy on their tummies and I can re-evaluate things in the morning based on what I see in their litter box. Since switching to quail they've seemed less interested in the pudding so I'll rotate it out for now and stick with duck for a day or two.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 2, 2014 12:55:18 GMT -5
Their litter box didn't have anything alarming in it, so I gave them their chicken pudding mixed with duck FDR. If things look normal when I get home I'll give them dinner at 8PM or so.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 3, 2014 3:13:51 GMT -5
The poops are still a little seedy looking, but then again their chicken pudding has lots of tiny pieces of chicken skin so maybe it's not that they're having digestion problems, but that their diet is overly abundant in fat. Does that sound like a possibility? Would it be worth getting skinless chicken thighs for their next soup batch to see if the stool consistency returns to normal?
The two meal per day schedule seems to be working OK so far, I just want to avoid having raw pudding sitting out for 8+ hours and seeing that they haven't eaten it. Feeding them less often, they seem to eat their food more promptly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 11:48:10 GMT -5
Seedy Poops are undigested fats. Don't remove all the fat, just cut back on some. They need Fats.
Maybe you could do Soupies, when you have the time to sit with them. How much soupie are you feeding and are they eating ANY of it?
Is it the same soupie every time or does a certain kind of meat soupie just sit there? For example, do you find that a beef soupie just sits there.
It sounds like they aren't always hungry for two meals, you will get a feel for how much they eat and what hours are best to feed them. It just takes some time and attention to know how they like to eat.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 3, 2014 14:10:04 GMT -5
They like the chicken pudding, it's just the raw soup recipe in thick form. I've been feeding them (combined) about 2-3 oz of wet FDR/pudding (usually around half and half) per serving. They haven't had a different base soup yet, I generally just change the FDR to a different protein. They usually eat all of it when I mix it with duck FDR, but on the instances they didn't I couldn't tell if they were full or didn't like that I was mixing it with quail FDR. Until a day or two ago I was feeding them 3 times a day and that may just have been overkill.
I'll keep an eye on it for the next day or so, after which I need to make another batch of soup. If it's still seedy looking I can try leaving out half of the chicken skin out when I'm portioning the thigh and see if that helps. They seem to like turkey FDR well enough when I mix that with the chicken pudding, do you think it's time to try another protein, such as by mixing ground turkey into the pudding? Or should I stay with chicken and add larger chunks? Or maybe chicken pudding with a ground meat added as a starter chunk size?
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Post by raynebc on Oct 4, 2014 3:34:20 GMT -5
Still a little seedy looking, but they ate all their food tonight. Just now, Copper was still hungry because he was rattling the spoon around on the plate trying to lick bits of the pudding traces off of it. So I made them another batch and he started eating right away.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 4, 2014 14:59:42 GMT -5
Today is their 7th day without kibble and they're still eating their pudding really well. They are cleaning their plate so I think I'll go back to a 3 meal per day schedule, I just won't oversize the portions.
I'll run out of soup by the end of the day so I'm going to get more chicken thighs. Usually one package has enough for 3 8oz portions and a little extra. This time around if there's still extra after discarded half the skin I'll cut it into small pieces and keep them to add slivers to their pudding. I think I'll also get a package of chicken gizzards/hearts and see what they think about them. Copper loves to chew things so hopefully he'll take to them well.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 5, 2014 13:51:42 GMT -5
Last night, I had enough time to cut up some thighs but I didn't get around to making another batch of pudding. I did discard half the skin though, as their poops definitely indicate they were eating more fat than they were digesting. So for an overnight snack I put out some wet FDR. This time around I mixed half turkey and half salmon/cod Stella and Chewy's. They didn't take to it immediately, but had eaten it by morning.
This afternoon I made a fresh batch of pudding. It sure does give the blender a workout, it still smokes a little bit, I guess I can try using shorter bursts. If it breaks, I can always just send it in for repair or get another.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 14:59:48 GMT -5
Your poor blender is trying its best. I have no idea how to fix the smoking. You might need another one.
One green poop isn't much to worry about. Keep an eye out for more funky poops, but as you know, you will get some during the switch.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 6, 2014 13:09:52 GMT -5
I think one thing that made it harder on the blender is that with less chicken skin, the pudding was significantly thicker because the muscle meat is really dense compared to skin. I'll have to remember to use more water next time.
Their poops haven't looked green lately, although still a little seedy even after the reduction in the amount of chicken skin. I haven't quite determined whose poop that is, but they both seem to have good energy levels, and Copper seems more energetic than he used to be, which is great. I tap their plate with a spoon to call the ferrets to the food corner when I make a plate for them and they both come running. Copper's usually the first one to start chowing down and I even see him stay put if he runs into a piece he has to chew on a few times. I still have the chicken I bought this weekend in the fridge, I need to spend some time this evening portioning it and then I'll stuff it in the freezer. I'll keep any leftovers after all the 8oz portions have been made and store them as small pieces so I can try mixing in some small chunks with the pudding.
My hours at home have been very erratic since this weekend since my room mate and I are preparing to move to another house. I'll be spending lots of evenings there working, so it's probably going to be easier for me to keep the two feeding schedule for now. When I do feed them, I'm making nice big plates of it (3-4 oz probably) and they're cleaning the plate even though it's about 1/4 quail. I'm glad I have so many types of FDR to mix in so they can get the benefits of different proteins. I don't think I'll have time to graduate them from pudding until we do move.
I just bought a fridge/freezer unit that we'll keep in the garage, so the ferrets will have a lot of space dedicated for their food. It's not a freezer chest, but the freezer capacity on this combo is 4.1 cubic feet, which will hold a fair amount. And I'll never have to listen to my room mate complain about what I'm keeping in it because it's mine. If I ever need more freezer space I can just buy a freezer chest at that point, since they are relatively inexpensive.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 7, 2014 2:23:45 GMT -5
They're still eating their pudding well. I spent a couple hours and portioned the rest of the chicken thighs I bought during the weekend and stuck them in the freezer. I have enough for 6 batches now, so I won't have to worry about it for a while. I didn't get around to messing with the chicken gizzards because I'd had enough fun with the knife for one evening. If I can remember I may chop one into small pieces and mix it with their pudding tomorrow.
I'm still working on improving my soup prep methods. I'm not very fast at it, it takes me about 15-20 minutes to de-bone, chop and store 8oz of chicken thigh and skin into small pieces. But near the end I decided to de-bone a thigh, remove half the skin and then stick the thigh in a container and refrigerate it to keep it fresh while I cut up the rest of the chicken. I think I'll do this to all the thighs at the beginning of my next thigh prep, as it will keep the meat out as little as possible during the process.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 11:27:18 GMT -5
You'll find lot's of ways to make meal prep easier as you go along.
They sound like they are doing well. I don't know about the green poop, stress can cause that and so can exposure to a new ferret. But, as long as it doesn't keep showing up, I wouldn't worry.
Can you give us a run down of all the proteins that they have tried? What size slices/slivers will they eat.
Yeah for the new freezer. It's awfully nice to have your own space and not argue with someone about how it gets used.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 7, 2014 13:08:54 GMT -5
They've eaten quite a few different proteins, just not much of any chunks except the odd piece of chicken thigh or skin that didn't blend up. I've seen them both chomp on such pieces before, so I think they're willing to put a little more effort into eating than just swallowing it. There weren't really any scraps left from the thigh portioning, the package turned out to make 7 half-pound portions pretty much dead on, give or take 0.1-0.2 oz or so. Are chicken gizzards likely to be too chewy for them to take to before bigger chunks of thigh/skin? I can just blend the next batch less if so.
Besides the raw meat in their pudding (beef heart, chicken liver, chicken thighs), they've had lots of FDR before (chicken, turkey, duck/goose, salmon/cod, quail, rabbit). They also liked the venison canned food from a while back. They also seemed to accept dried lamb lung treats.
I may need to mix in a little more bone meal into the pudding because their poops have been a little on the watery side the last day or two.
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Post by raynebc on Oct 8, 2014 2:22:54 GMT -5
I finally opened the package of Tyson chicken gizzards/hearts and I actually found it had 10 or so hearts in it, however some of the pieces of meat were turning a slightly brownish color so I kept a portion of the better looking gizzards and hearts and threw the rest away. I chopped one gizzard into small pieces 1/4-1/2 pinky finger nail sized and mixed it into their usual pudding/FDR and served it to them for dinner. I came back after working at the new house to find they'd eaten pretty much all of it.
I'll keep mixing some chunks into their pudding to get them used to the concept of larger pieces of meat. Supposedly a chicken gizzard is .75 oz or so, this wouldn't throw off the meat:organ ratio too much would it? If they're eating their entire portions, would they still get the vitamins they need from the heart and liver?
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