|
Post by raynebc on Oct 9, 2014 1:48:09 GMT -5
I mixed some gizzard chunks into their breakfast and they'd eaten it all by the time I got home. I likewise mixed some into their dinner, and 5 hours later had eaten half of their plate. I mixed it with some warm water to freshen it up and got them each to eat some more. Reska was very willing to eat it and I even heard her chewing on a couple pieces, although she did stash a piece at the end of her meal and I had to pick it up and discard it. At first, I thought Copper was avoiding it, but shortly after I left I heard the spoon rattling around on their plate and came back to find him finishing off all the gizzard pieces left on the plate (except for one relatively large one). I'll keep mixing chunks into their pudding since they seem ready for it. In a couple of feedings I can try to add a chopped chicken heart in place of a gizzard to see if they eat it as easily. It takes a little effort to pry one gizzard out of a frozen block, but it's easy enough to chop up, so it should be easy for me to keep gizzards ready in the freezer on a permanent basis.
I made a fresh batch of soup. I added quite a bit more water than usual and the blender handled quite easily, no smoking or anything. Of course this made it a little soupier than usual, but that just means I shouldn't have to mix in as much water with the FDR when I blend it in. I bumped the amount of bone meal up from 1/2 tsp to 3/4 tsp. Tomorrow will be their first meal with the new soup so I should see shortly if the change firms their stools up.
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 10, 2014 12:18:35 GMT -5
Their poop seems a little more solid, so I think the extra bone meal is helping. They're still eating pretty well and get either most of or an entire chicken gizzard once per day as part of one of their two daily meals. The two of them together are probably eating around 6 oz of food per day although if I gave them a gizzard with each of their two meals it would bump up their total another half or full ounce.
In a thread about slivers (http://holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/16502/transitioning-slivers-question), Julesalot mentioned that slivers aren't considered enough to unbalance their diet if they're eating the raw soup recipe every day. If that's the case then hopefully I won't have to worry about adding extra heart or liver to a batch of soup to compensate, although an extra chicken heart (since I got some from a package of gizzards/hearts) wouldn't hurt, would it?
How large should accepted chunks be before I try to offer them a chopped/smashed chicken wing? Are the bones in chicken wings soft enough to cut with a knife or do I need to get a meat hammer? How small should the meat/bone pieces be at that point?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 12:35:44 GMT -5
An extra heart doesn't hurt, but isn't necessary. Taurine is water soluable, so it doesn't build up in their systems. Liver does, so you want to stick with the amount of Liver that we suggest. Try putting a chopped wing (one for each) in their cage at night and see how they do with it. A chicken wing is basically three sections, the tip/middle/and meaty part. (How's that for technical language)? Cut of the Tip section and smash it once lengthwise and twice across the side. A good knife should do the job. When you get a chance, pick up a cleaver. It will be very helpful as they move into bones. Quail is a great starter bone. Here is a before and after shot of the first time that mine had Quail.
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 10, 2014 14:04:08 GMT -5
I'll look into getting a cleaver and a tougher cutting board, I don't want to destroy my current one. I'd prefer plastic since it would be easier to clean and no maintenance (compared to having to oil cutting boards that are made of wood). Should the chicken wing be cut up into pieces as small as in your second picture? If it gets to the point that only one of their two daily meals contains liver, should I increase the amount of it used in their raw pudding?
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 13, 2014 4:40:52 GMT -5
Today I left them a plate of raw chicken pudding and chopped gizzard, without FDR, but they didn't eat it. Must have been too big a change for them to like.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 14:51:32 GMT -5
A plastic board is a good idea. I have one that is for Ferrets Only, for hygiene purposes.
Chop the heck out of the chicken wings. They need to work up to bone pieces. It's just like slowly increasing the size of slivers. They need to get use to the new textures and build up their jaw strength. That's why gizzards are helpful (but, they have to eat them...lol).
For the next few days, give them the exact same thing. Chicken pudding and tiny pieces of gizzards. Let them get use to this new food.
I wouldn't increase the amount of Liver. Liver build ups in their system and that's one of the reasons that we want to move them past the soupie stage and onto eating slivers, while decreasing the soupie.
On the Frankenprey menu, Liver and another organ make up only ten percent of their weekly intake. Soupie is balanced but intended to be a First Stage food.
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 16, 2014 3:30:45 GMT -5
I ran out of gizzards after this morning so for their dinner I cut up a chicken heart and mixed it with their pudding/FDR. They ate it all up no problem. I'll have to get another package of gizzards/hearts soon.
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 25, 2014 4:35:13 GMT -5
Not much to report. I've been spending most of my time while not sleeping or being at work doing renovation work at my friend's house. They still eat a mix of chicken pudding and FDR (though it's mostly pudding) twice a day and I still rotate the FDR proteins around, usually one Stella and Chewy FDR and one Archetype FDR so they get a lot of variety. I also am still dicing up a chicken heart or gizzard once or twice a day and mixing it with their food, and they usually clean their plate by the time next feeding comes around.
On Thursday morning I'd run out of chicken pudding so I cut up a couple gizzards and one heart and mixed it with FDR and they ate the whole thing, which is promising. They didn't eat much of the food I'd put out for them yesterday afternoon but when I put a fresh plate out 1-2 hours ago and Copper started chowing down, I could even hear him chewing a chunk of something.
I like to alternate between heart and gizzard as a mixer for their food, how many chicken hearts can should they be limited to per week when they're getting beef heart with their pudding (standard raw soup recipe)? It's been said that excess Taurine is eliminated from the body, but supposedly it is possible to overdose if given in extreme amounts, I just don't know how extreme. Also, maybe there are other things to consider such as strange poop consistencies due to added blood-rich meat?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 10:01:44 GMT -5
Heart should make up ten percent of their weekly intake. Since FDR has Taurine in it, I would subtract FDR meals from their weekly intake and put in ten percent of how much they eat of the pudding.
Does that make sense?
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 25, 2014 14:58:15 GMT -5
I suppose, but although I've been decreasing the amount of FDR (it's probably less than a quarter of their plated food at each feeding now), I haven't given them a meal that is entirely absent of FDR yet since that last attempt was a failure. An extra couple hearts per week isn't enough Taurine to be harmful in any way though, is it?
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 26, 2014 5:45:22 GMT -5
I plated up some chicken pudding, a couple diced gizzards and mixed in some water to make it soupier to see how they go with FDR-less raw, round two. Reska seems willing to eat it, but Copper is hesitant, even when offered some on a spoon. We'll see if he feels hungry enough to try it.
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 27, 2014 1:10:33 GMT -5
They didn't touch much of that FDR-less raw plate by the time their next feeding came around, so this time I made the same thing, but added just a tiny amount of FDR (about half what they have been getting, so basically one nugget of Stella and Chewy's and a comparable amount of Archetype). They hadn't eaten much of it after 6-7 hours so I mixed in some warm water to freshen it up and fed them both a bit from a spoon on my lap. Then I went to make another soup batch (with chicken heart instead of beef heart because I'd ran out of the latter this time) and portioned up 14 soup batches worth of chicken liver and stored it in the freezer. I came to find they'd eaten almost the entire plate. I'll keep feeding them this way for a couple days and reduce the FDR by another half and see if I can get them eating just the raw pudding with gizzard mixed in.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 10:08:44 GMT -5
One thing that you can do is to make a gravy with the FDR. Take two or three pieces and put them in hot water and let them sit. Then when they are soaked, mash them up. Put out a plate of their raw and pour the gravy over it. They think they're getting the FDR.
Try it with a bowl of just tiny pieces of minced gizzards or chicken.
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 28, 2014 15:05:44 GMT -5
I've been doing pretty much that the last couple of feedings, putting a very small amount of FDR in some hot water and using that to thin/warm the chicken pudding, which is usually served pretty cold since the pudding is kept in the fridge and the gizzards are kept frozen. They don't seem to mind it though, one or both chow down immediately when I set the plate out for them. I may have to go back to feeding 3 times per day, since now that I'm not padding their meals with a lot of FDR, a serving of pudding and a diced gizzard doesn't make as much food. I'm going to need to chop up some more chicken thigh in a couple days, so I might keep one soup portion's worth to use to add slivers to the soup so they get meat chunks besides just gizzard.
|
|
|
Post by raynebc on Oct 30, 2014 16:30:09 GMT -5
I ran out of soup after their evening meal last night, but after de-boning 4 chicken thighs I decided I try to progress them on their diet a bit and this morning I woke up a bit earlier so I had time to chop a half of a chicken thigh up into small pieces for them and mixed it with a little (probably about 1:3 ratio) of FDR to entice them to eat it for breakfast. We'll see how they did with this when I get home. If they ate it, I can try chopping up the heart/liver into small pieces and mixing it in (like an un-blended soup) but I think they are likely to pick around what they don't want to eat. If that's what they end up doing, could I just make a heart/liver puree and pour that onto the muscle meat chunks so it's harder for them to avoid?
|
|